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Baneling busts are fun, but I get few opportunities to practice it. I'd like the build fully explained by someone who masters it.
This is what I've understood: Feel free to correct me
If your opponent scouts the baneling nest it's obviously all over as they will make units instead of macroing/teching.
Baneling busts consist of making zerglings and banelings to bust down a wallin at natural or main, where the opponent thinks they're safe to tech and macro a 1-base play - usually resulting in stuff like fast void ray or banshee spam. It has be done quick and decisive, taking out many workers or key buildings (such as the precious tech he tried to achieve)
Baneling Bust build:
Scout early to see the wallin (I scout at 9)
14 spawning pool
16 build extractor and put 3 drones on it
16 then build queen
until ~30 spam zerglings, keep a few on the ramp to prevent scout
@100 gas zergling speed
@50 gas baneling nest, move lings to outside his main. Hide them if possible, try to time the movement with the completion of the nest.
@200min 200 gas Morph 8 banelings (how many is good for toss/terran?)
Move banelings in front to bust
Spam lings while doing this
profit
Some numbers to keep in mind
4 banelings > 1 supply depot
5 banelings > 1 pylon
4 banelings > 1 zealot
2 banelings > 1 marine
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I probably would not waste time trying to work out a good BO for baneling busts as it is easy to scout and easy to counter for good players.
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My ambition is to prove otherwise 
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On May 23 2010 17:47 Hider wrote:
I probably would not waste time trying to work out a good BO for baneling busts as it is easy to scout and easy to counter for good players.
Wha? Have you ever played against a Z who baneling busted you early game? I mean if you play Terran, they might be easier to stop but for Protoss, it's devastating. They rape all the gateway units you have at the beginning, like the zealots that are guarding your ramp and then they can run lings in freely to harass the mineral line, either killing a lot of probes there or forcing you to pull them off, stopping your income.
Even if it's easy to scout, what will you do? Make more units? Banelings and zerglings will rip right through that. Banelings, IMO, needs a nerf. No friendly damage is pushing it, considering that it will wreck your opponent early game if micro'd appropriately.
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I like bane-ling all-ins
I usually do
14 gas
14 pool
16 queen
and mass lings from then
when the pool is ready you will have 100+ minerals and 100 gas, tech ling speed
at 50 gas baneling nest
wait outside his base w your lings make your banelings near his base
its worse in macro than your build but faster lings/banelings
all-in!
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Yes, I prefer macro-oriented builds you can lay back on. As you say, yours is more of an all-in, so it's playstyle preference I guess. Yours might be better in the end, as a sufficiently high tech from the opponent counters the bust (air units, tanks)
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On May 23 2010 17:52 Tedder wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 17:47 Hider wrote:
I probably would not waste time trying to work out a good BO for baneling busts as it is easy to scout and easy to counter for good players. Wha? Have you ever played against a Z who baneling busted you early game? I mean if you play Terran, they might be easier to stop but for Protoss, it's devastating. They rape all the gateway units you have at the beginning, like the zealots that are guarding your ramp and then they can run lings in freely to harass the mineral line, either killing a lot of probes there or forcing you to pull them off, stopping your income. Even if it's easy to scout, what will you do? Make more units? Banelings and zerglings will rip right through that. Banelings, IMO, needs a nerf. No friendly damage is pushing it, considering that it will wreck your opponent early game if micro'd appropriately.
Ok if you get bane bused by a zerg before you get a sent you deserve to lose. Drop a sent between the banelings as they move up ramp and FF them with stalker while taking no damage to zealots. If you do get 2 sents you can easily box the banelings with your FFs, focus them down and take zero casualties.
Banelings doing friendly damage? Have you seen how few hp lings have? You would essentially be spending 25/25 to blow up your own lings or cause the risk of a chain reaction in your blings where your entire bling army explodes randomly.
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Banelings shouldn't do damage on death. Or at the very least, do half damage. Would fix a lot.
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On May 23 2010 18:09 x8eikdls wrote:
Banelings shouldn't do damage on death. Or at the very least, do half damage. Would fix a lot.
Since i'm throwing 50 minerals and 25 gas on each explosion i'd like for it to do decent damage, thanks.
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baneling bust does not work in ZvT if the terran opens with reactor hellions and has decent micro (whether they walled with 2 depot + rax or fact + rax). By the time the bust shows up I have at least 4 hellions (more if they go for the later version). Every time a Z goes baneling bust on me it's a free win because I can kill the lings and banelings with microed hellions, and even if they killed a few scvs or depots their economy is trash and I can win easily by transitioning into banshees. It's a very poor strategy for ZvT which will get you wins at lower levels but will stop working at a certain point.
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Keep it on topic.
AcrossFiveJulys: There are counters to each build of course. The baneling bust only works if you don't scout it, which you obviously did. Would you say that it's effective versus protoss then?
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EZ to counter as terran. Just dont wall in with supply depots vs z. Instead, rax at choke. Simply use 2 rax + 1 fac as a wall and he will be forced to make a large amount to bust. Use scvs to repare. Meanwhile, fast tech to banshees to rape him.
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 23 2010 18:04 Owarida wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 17:52 Tedder wrote:On May 23 2010 17:47 Hider wrote:
I probably would not waste time trying to work out a good BO for baneling busts as it is easy to scout and easy to counter for good players. Wha? Have you ever played against a Z who baneling busted you early game? I mean if you play Terran, they might be easier to stop but for Protoss, it's devastating. They rape all the gateway units you have at the beginning, like the zealots that are guarding your ramp and then they can run lings in freely to harass the mineral line, either killing a lot of probes there or forcing you to pull them off, stopping your income. Even if it's easy to scout, what will you do? Make more units? Banelings and zerglings will rip right through that. Banelings, IMO, needs a nerf. No friendly damage is pushing it, considering that it will wreck your opponent early game if micro'd appropriately. Ok if you get bane bused by a zerg before you get a sent you deserve to lose. Drop a sent between the banelings as they move up ramp and FF them with stalker while taking no damage to zealots. If you do get 2 sents you can easily box the banelings with your FFs, focus them down and take zero casualties. Banelings doing friendly damage? Have you seen how few hp lings have? You would essentially be spending 25/25 to blow up your own lings or cause the risk of a chain reaction in your blings where your entire bling army explodes randomly.
...Lets force field the ramp to delay the inevitable, is that what you're saying? Do you think that a zerg is just going to carelessly a-move them up the ramp and then go back to their base without paying the slightest attention to force fields? Once force field goes down, pull back. If you manage to box them in, great, but there will be a few that wouldn't get boxed and escape. Even if you were to kill off the ones that you have boxed, you're contained if the zerg then constantly pumps out lings and then techs to whatever the hell he/she wants.
Baneling openings are strong, do not underestimate that.
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On May 23 2010 17:52 Tedder wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 17:47 Hider wrote:
I probably would not waste time trying to work out a good BO for baneling busts as it is easy to scout and easy to counter for good players. Wha? Have you ever played against a Z who baneling busted you early game? I mean if you play Terran, they might be easier to stop but for Protoss, it's devastating. They rape all the gateway units you have at the beginning, like the zealots that are guarding your ramp and then they can run lings in freely to harass the mineral line, either killing a lot of probes there or forcing you to pull them off, stopping your income. Even if it's easy to scout, what will you do? Make more units? Banelings and zerglings will rip right through that. Banelings, IMO, needs a nerf. No friendly damage is pushing it, considering that it will wreck your opponent early game if micro'd appropriately.
Sentries easily counter ling/ling.
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A well-done baneling bust is pretty deadly. As a toss it essentially forces you to cut back on your tech to get an early sentry. Otherwise the banelings kill the zels and the speedlings kill the stalkers + everything else
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On May 23 2010 18:22 ayadew wrote:Keep it on topic. AcrossFiveJulys: There are counters to each build of course. The baneling bust only works if you don't scout it, which you obviously did. Would you say that it's effective versus protoss then?
It's not just a counter, but a hard counter that will win 99% of the time, and furthermore it's a fairly standard build. I mean can you imagine a ZvT opening in broodwar that has a chance of rolling over mech but always fails to bio openings? That's equivalent to baneling bust.
Actually most of the time I can't scout it because lings take out my probe well before the baneling next goes down and before I can detect any obvious signs (low drone count, no roach warren, no expo). So what happens is I encounter lings/banelings with my first two hellions that roll out (sometimes the hellions don't see them and I have to turn them around to defend my base).
I'm not sure about its effectiveness in ZvP but I haven't seen any pros do it.
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Then, would you suggest canceling the baneling bust if you see a fast factory producing units (with overlord scout, perhaps sacrificing an early overlord just to see this?) and just go roaches as you have a lot of gas and good econ?
I still think speedlings is a good threat to hellions, it just comes down to micro perhaps.
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If T goes early hellions and has decent micro, the baneling bust is screwed even if you manage to break down their wall. Thankfully most T players don't use hellions early on
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As was said, if you intend on staying in Silver or Bronze your entire career than baneling busts are the way to go, but the moment you square off against competent players this strat as an opener is a failed one.
It puts you too far behind as far as your econ, and if it fails(which it will 6 or 7 times out of 10) at higher levels then the counter attack is going to crush you.
I won 90% of my games in silver against terran with this tactic but I've now completely gotten rid of it as my loss rate was at 90% when laddered up.
The magic number for this was 34 supply I found. You build out 17 drones max, of which you'll use 1 for the pool, 1 for the nest, 1 for the extractor and one for an early spine crawler to fight off reapers.
I would go 13 pool on this, 14 extractor, and not build the nest until after I started the speed upgrade at the pool.
AFter the pool is done you just crank out lings and attack when you get to 33 supply. 5 Banelings to bust down the wall and the rest to mop up the troops. If you wait for more lings they are able to build enough troops to fight you back 1/2 of the time, go sooner and you don't have enough to clean em up.
What I've found is that you need to take out the troops first.. Don't go straight for the SCV's as you split up your lings and will eventually get cleaned out. Even if you loose 80% of the lings taking out the rines or mauraders your macro should ensure another 8 lings arriving at the terran base within a matter of seconds after that wall comes down.
But again, as was said you are better off ditching this strat right now and practice the hell out of something else. This should only be used for fun against low level players because I mean let's face it, the baneling bust opener has gotta be one of the most fun ways to kill a terran. But the more you use this now, the less practice you will have on a viable strategy when you ladder up and that just means more losses that are going to be on your score until you perfect a viable gold and plat level opener.
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On May 23 2010 21:00 EscPlan9 wrote:
If T goes early hellions and has decent micro, the baneling bust is screwed even if you manage to break down their wall. Thankfully most T players don't use hellions early on
you have like 1-2 hellions when beneling bust breaks your wall and its always followed by mass speedlings who own low numbers of hellions even if u have perfect micro
you wont be able to build more hellions because you are supply blocked
best way to prevent it is to never wall in with supply which is hard on some maps and very annoying because of the addon mechanics ...
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Dimaga used it in a tournament I watched recently (if im not mistaken) with great success. His scouting definitely helped, and with the lings he was able to keep terran out of the base once the pool was up (T didn't see the baneling nest). Somewhere its mentioned that a scout at around the 5 minute mark helps alleviate some of these concerns (as Dimaga did); if sentries/hellions appear to ruin the plan, macro up instead of sending the attack out?
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My rough baneling bust BO. It really fluctuates depending on scouting info.
12 gas (3 workers in it)
14 pool (queen when finished, keep pumping drones until the Baneling Nest goes down)
18 baneling nest
And just spam Zerglings and Banelings and bust.
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On May 23 2010 21:12 lolreaper wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 21:00 EscPlan9 wrote:
If T goes early hellions and has decent micro, the baneling bust is screwed even if you manage to break down their wall. Thankfully most T players don't use hellions early on you have like 1-2 hellions when beneling bust breaks your wall and its always followed by mass speedlings who own low numbers of hellions even if u have perfect micro you wont be able to build more hellions because you are supply blocked best way to prevent it is to never wall in with supply which is hard on some maps and very annoying because of the addon mechanics ...
actually if you are planning on going hellion you can get 2 out on the 5 minute mark and then 2-4 more before the baneling bust hits at 5:45-6min. if you are not going hellion you can just plant all your buildings on your ramp and LOL at him for trying to bust you.
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As a lower level player I can't really comment on how effective bling busts are. However, the couple of times I've used them and they've worked it's incredibly satisfying :D 2v2 is interesting too because you can then ignore speedlings and all in just blings with your partner bringing the fire power.
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A baneling bust is very easily countered once scouted. Terran has a lot of options:
1- Wall in w/ rax/factory/double depots.
2- Put 1-2 marauder in front of depots.
3- Bunker up.
4- Some sort of unit combo that can hold after the bust is done (concensus seems to be hellion?).
A Toss has these options:
1- Sentry + split army.
2- Forge.
3- 2 gate/core wall + proper micro.
Busts are most effective on 4-player maps as for some reason people seem to not consider it/scout late, but it's still a bad build to open with against a random if you ever want to be good at the game.
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On May 23 2010 17:57 ayadew wrote:
Yes, I prefer macro-oriented builds you can lay back on. As you say, yours is more of an all-in, so it's playstyle preference I guess. Yours might be better in the end, as a sufficiently high tech from the opponent counters the bust (air units, tanks)
Wait, so you want a macro oriented baneling bust? lolwut? Baneling bust is an all-in attack, and like he said, its 14 pool 14 gas (or 13 gas) 15 or 16 queen pump lings, researching ling speed with first 100 gas and plopping bane nest down with next 50 gas (~22 food, no need for the earlier 18 food nest, it makes the bust slower overall). Morph 5 banes right as nest finishes, and bust. The timing on this is banes hit ramp at ~5:40 and lings run in (bane nest finishes at ~26 food, and next 10 lings typically arrive as banes finish). If you wait longer and pump more drones, they can have much more defense, and your bust will fail and will just be a waste. The bust is only worth it if you get to the min line, and you wont if you were pumping drones instead of lings.
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On May 23 2010 18:09 x8eikdls wrote:
Banelings shouldn't do damage on death. Or at the very least, do half damage. Would fix a lot.
marines shouldn't be able to shoot air. would fix a lot.
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On May 24 2010 01:47 Chriamon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 18:09 x8eikdls wrote:
Banelings shouldn't do damage on death. Or at the very least, do half damage. Would fix a lot. marines shouldn't be able to shoot air. would fix a lot.
And thors should fall over on their back when you poke at them. Problem with terran mech solved. What's next? 
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On May 23 2010 17:47 Hider wrote:
I probably would not waste time trying to work out a good BO for baneling busts as it is easy to scout and easy to counter for good players.
So is 2gate but it's still used tho. It can be a good way or punishing depo-walling terrans IMO. You just react and throw down banneling nest and boom ^^
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I wouldn't wait until you had 30 lings to do a bust against Terran. I'm not sure about P, but with Terran you're hedging that they're doing tech and relying upon the wall for early protection, so you want to leverage pulling the trigger on them before they can bring hellions to bear.
I do pool/extract on 15 then drone back up to 15 and stop on drone production. Queen as soon as pool finishes, 6 lings as soon as you have 150 min again. Speed first, then nest. Your first 6 lings which you'll have already positioned outside their base becomes 6 blings, you should have 8-10 additional lings and 14 more building off of your first larvae vomit. Speed should just be finishing which will get that additional 14 to their base shortly after your initial bust. The goal is to use the first 8-10 lings to harass and keep them from fixing the wall until the next 14 show up.
Against a Terran who has any part of his wall covered by just a single depot and doesn't have a bunker as well I've never had this fail. Even if they go hellions they can only have 1-2 by the time of the bust. The real counter is to either not use depots at all or to use a couple marauders as a secondary wall behind the depot to keep lings from being able to get in and surround.
I do play Random though, so a lot of times a Terran opponent may do his first depot in his wall before he knows I'm Zerg.
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Pool on 14/15 is really late imo.
I usually 13 pool 12 gas straight after, drone back up to 16, queen on 16, start pumping lings, spawn larva and start speed with first 100 gas (happens nearly at the same time), then baneling nest with the next 50 gas and expo at the same time, pull one drone off gas for the expo, keeping on pumping lings.
When speed and nest are done (pretty much the same time) I should have about 20 lings at his front door, the second wave of spawn larva lings just hatching. The first ones start morphing, and the second spawn larva ling wave arrives just in time for the bust from the first ones.
Upside to this, is that with the expo, its possible to actually still win if it fails, even though its harder.
Also, thxs to 13 pool 12 gas, you arrive early enough to actually get there before his tech pays off. The whole point is to punish him for making a factory, and a reactor, and an OC. You need to get there before he can start pumping the hellions.
This build does that fairly well.
One of the main issues I had, was that since Id have only 6 banelings, and 14 lings, and you lose a few lings to the units, its sometimes hard to actually get kills on workers, since you have like 9 lings vs 15 workers.
I deal with that by making more baneling, usually about 9 banelings, 5 to bust down the wall, 11 zerglings to take care of his few units while hes supply capped, and to harass the workers, and then the 4 banelings to actually deal the most damage to the economy.
I do it in platinum, and win my fair share of game, so its not a "copper league strategy" as some seem to think.
Same build works well vs zerg too, to get there before his roaches, and ling-baneling otherwise if he went lings or ling-baneling himself.
And against toss too, unless he went for something like a 10 gateway into cybercore sentry, you get there before the sentry. Great against toss going for an immortal push, I try to show them few lings, and a roach warren that I later cancel.
Just cose its the only viable build to do a bit of early agression doesnt mean that its all-in
If he techs, hes dead. And if he went for early units, well you have a bunch of ling-baneling, which will keep you safe against any early units, and you have an expo. Just need to make 2 rounds of spawn larva as drones, and you should be fine.
The only really important part, imo, is to not actually follow through with the bust if you do see a lot of early units, since then your banelings are dying against the wall, rest of ling-banelings are outnumbered, and die to no effect, and now you are way behind and lose.
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Good stuff everyone! Thanks
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i hate baneling bust as a t, lost many games to it
best thing must be to wall-in with the big buidlings like rax, fax and starport or cc (if you go for fast exp)
should be very hard for a zerg to break through then, even if he went banelings really fast
all-in is almost an instant loss then
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well, terran gets to wall so overall, it's easier.
But what to do when your protoss? I usually counter it with voidrays.
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On May 31 2010 04:10 Chaotic_flare wrote:
well, terran gets to wall so overall, it's easier.
But what to do when your protoss? I usually counter it with voidrays.
Baneling busts should come way way earlier than void rays...
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On May 23 2010 17:54 ilbh wrote:
I like bane-ling all-ins
I usually do
14 gas
14 pool
16 queen
and mass lings from then
when the pool is ready you will have 100+ minerals and 100 gas, tech ling speed
at 50 gas baneling nest
wait outside his base w your lings make your banelings near his base
its worse in macro than your build but faster lings/banelings
all-in!
you likem cuz you are from south america
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5 Banes bust a Depot. Don't make more than that against a Terran.
By the way, as a terran, always build a thick wall. Either use EBay/Rax/Factory, or build extra depots behind the wall.
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Used to have a lot of issues with blings as terran, until I started just always assuming a bust vs zerg. I just build the depot next to the cc these days, send the SCV to scout, place the rax, get fact ASAP(if all-in cheese = make 2nd rax + depot[if bad pos, else I throw down addon] instead of fact, to close wall when scv spots the lings[i usually dont get OC until I see no allin on small maps, to have a bit of minerals laying around for fast wall] ) and norm port for 1/1/1 + banshee harrash(or hellion drop).
Base safe vs a bust, and no cheese takes it out. Haven't really seen much early things that have a chance to ruin it and once I have a fortified position + tanks/thors about to come out, tvz feels like the game is the t's to loose.
Edit: In response to the poster above me: If you make 2nd line of depots, try to place 1 empty gridspace between em, since else the blings can dmg it too, when they blow up on the first one.
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your baneling bust will be alot stronger / faster if you get gas before pool at 14 or 15.
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I do 2 different types of baneling busts. I only really do them against terran (only against Toss if they have bad pylon placement and I scout it.)
The first baneling bust I do (Thanks Artosis for the build) is on maps that are close rush distances like Steps of War or Incineration Zone.
-After you make your first overlord at 10. Send 2 drones to their base and gas steal both of his gas.
-Pool at 14
-Extractor at 15
-Queen as soon as you can
-Build 2 lings once your pool is done
-First 100 gas on Speed
-Next 50 gas for Baneling nest
-Make drones until your first inject larvae pops off
-Then just make only Zerglings
-Once Baneling nest is done morph 6 banelings and wait for like 15ish lings I think
-Bust him! Keep making zerglings and if he walls off again just make more banelings
(This build is great because the double gas steal prevents him from teching at all and insures that he has lots of low tech units like marines that easily die to banelings.
The second build I do is a late game baneling bust that I came up with myself. Starts pretty standard and so it is hard to detect what I'm doing. It is highly vunerable to air attacks though. But you can make spore colonies if you spot the air attack coming.
-14pool
-16 hatch
-16queen
-18 extractor
First 100gas to ling speed
-Keep making drones and be ready for like any ~30 supply helions
-Make an evo chamber
Second 100gas for Lair
Once Lair is halfway done make another extractor and baneling nest
-Get +1 attack at the evo chamber as soon as you can
-Get the speed upgrade for the banelings
-Then at like 50 (I Think) just start massing zerglings
-If you time this right you should have +1 attack and like 15-20 speed banelings and like 40 speedlings
-Then just keep pumping zerglings and make some extra banelings if you feel necessary
Also don't be afraid to bust through barracks!! If he is walled off with barracks it just takes 13 banelings to make it through.
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You need to start earlier.
13 pool
13 gas
This is important because i you can kill the scout you they are not sure whether it is a roach rush or a baneling bust.
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On May 23 2010 17:47 Hider wrote:
I probably would not waste time trying to work out a good BO for baneling busts as it is easy to scout and easy to counter for good players.
Actually, if you want to hide tech, you can barf creep someplace out of the way and build your tech there. :D
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I actually just got a non-allin banelingbust build going vs toss. The BO is something like this:
10 OL+extractor-trick
13 Scout
14 (when you have about 90 minerals) Extractor
14 Pool
16 OL
When spawningpool pops: queen and metabolic boost (should have just enough for them both at this time)
2 lings to kill scout
Baneling nest as soon as you get enough gas
Get about 18 lings, place them outside your opponents base and morph 5 banelings (or 7 if you want to take out his gateway, pull drones of gas at 125 gas (or 175 if you're going for 7 blings))
Attack, aim for the pylon (and pump drones like crazy after this, get a spinecrawler or two if the attack fails badly)
This build punishes greedy tosses and shuts down 2gates. I'm not sure how it stands against all-in cheese but it should be ok, especially on maps like blistering sands. Anyways, from my experience you don't get that far behind since your opponent in most cases either overreacts or gets his economy shut down. You should probably expand after you've got enough lings since 1 hatch won't give you enough lava to spend your minerals.
Can't get a replay uploaded atm but it's pretty straight forward
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Dimaga used it a lot today and it mostly worked, even in the final vs satinii. so if correctly used it can also work vs good players
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My Baneling bust build:
8/9 scout
14 pool
13 gas
2 drones immediately after
1 overlord immediatley after
@100% gas : 3 drones to gas
@100% pool : 1 queen 3 lings (you will have 300 min, 3 larvae)
either 2/3 drones or zerglings
100 gas > ling speed
next 50 gas > banelings nest
Pump ling and GOGO
I use this build almost every game. It ensures good economy, while getting fast lings.
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I've done nothing but baneling busts, played less than 75 games total but I'm rank 2 diamond..I don't know if I'm just lucky but most T and P fail to counter it effectively and end up rage-quitting...
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TBH.. when z try to baneling bust me i HATE it.. even if they don't do anymore substancial damage but kill a few depots at my wall it supply blocks me and just pisses me off.
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On May 31 2010 11:58 Veetz wrote:
TBH.. when z try to baneling bust me i HATE it.. even if they don't do anymore substancial damage but kill a few depots at my wall it supply blocks me and just pisses me off.
lol I do this sometimes if I feel I can do enough damage even if I can't kill them off. I see two depots together and I can't help myself. Then I switch to roach usually.
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Honestly, my preference is not to get banelings early game, i just don't like how much you have to cut back on and how long it takes to get them.
I like to save them for later on in the mid game, get their speed upgrade, and roll them on through your infantry/ground units.
Did this against a protoss that had a number of stalkers/sentries/zealots and even a couple of collossi, he left them at the choke to his expansion on Steppes of War, rolled in my banelings, took most of the out except left 2 collossi on next to no health, so I just ran my left over speedlings in, this finished him off, and after than i was able to bring my muta's and more lings in to finish the job.
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On May 31 2010 07:33 Xanrae wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 17:47 Hider wrote:
I probably would not waste time trying to work out a good BO for baneling busts as it is easy to scout and easy to counter for good players. Actually, if you want to hide tech, you can barf creep someplace out of the way and build your tech there. :D
i do this mid game for my spire and baneling nest, nearly every time a scan goes down when i'm against terran, it completely misses those 2 buildings.
They often see my muta's and know i have muta's, but they never scout my baneling nest until it's too late for them.
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Btw, Gerrard used almost exacly my build vs nazgul in eu vs asia (game 2 and 3)
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On May 31 2010 07:33 Xanrae wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 17:47 Hider wrote:
I probably would not waste time trying to work out a good BO for baneling busts as it is easy to scout and easy to counter for good players. Actually, if you want to hide tech, you can barf creep someplace out of the way and build your tech there. :D
But this is only possible after the lair-tech, so it's useless for a baneling bust.
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I tried some bling bust BOs at the BO tester map. I always made sure to get lingspeed, bling nest and 150 gas, as i think one needs 6 blings at least for the bust. I also always used 9 OL only, as i dont want to mess up on the extractor trick. This being said i believe 13 pool, 14 extractor is the best BO.
my best run on kulas ravine spawning bottom left was the following:
9 OL
13 pool
14 extractor / put 3 drones in asap
16 OL
16 Queen
pump only lings from now on
@100 gas speedling upgrade
@50 gas bling nest
22 OL
keep pumping lings...
it lead to:
5:20 (game-time)
33/34 supply
150 minerals / 154 gas --> 6 blings
11 sets of lings out
5 sets morphing
speedling upgrade 3 sec to go
I scouted only with my OLs, but can someone tell me what a terran going mech or FE would have at this point if he walled off. Someone has experience trying to bust through barracks with 6 blings and some ling-hits?
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The all-in baneling bust (Stop making drones at 14, only make lings and banes) relies entirely on timing. If you are late the other guy will have enough of an army to kill your zerglings even after you bust the wall, and then you auto-lose (your economy is effed). It won't work against a good player who expects it coming, but you'll kill a surprising number of fast tech players when they don't expect it. (don't let the other guy see that you have 20 zerglings despite the fact that he's walled off)
I am a much bigger fan of baneling harass. You do a zergling run-by with around 12 lings and 3-4 banelings, the goal is to bypass the army and explode the worker line. Because the zerglings pick up aggro from static defenses, it doesn't even matter if the guy has cannons or spine crawlers. Doesn't work against wall-ins.
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14 pool 14 gas is the DIMAGA build. you go to 15 drones afterward and then make only lings.
Also it only requires 6 banelings to break a supply depot. I usually try to roll in with 8 though. That leaves 2 left over to instakill their marines for the guaranteed GG.
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Tip for Protoss: If you wall off, do it with high hp buildings like gateways, forges, and cyber core. By the time zerg gets banelings, you should have cannons. If they want it *really* fast, you might not have a sentry but the gateways as walls usually hold it off.
And if you have 2 sentries ... well, they won't be killing you so soon anyway.
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On May 23 2010 21:07 platonichate wrote:
As was said, if you intend on staying in Silver or Bronze your entire career than baneling busts are the way to go, but the moment you square off against competent players this strat as an opener is a failed one.
It puts you too far behind as far as your econ, and if it fails(which it will 6 or 7 times out of 10) at higher levels then the counter attack is going to crush you.
I won 90% of my games in silver against terran with this tactic but I've now completely gotten rid of it as my loss rate was at 90% when laddered up.
The magic number for this was 34 supply I found. You build out 17 drones max, of which you'll use 1 for the pool, 1 for the nest, 1 for the extractor and one for an early spine crawler to fight off reapers.
I would go 13 pool on this, 14 extractor, and not build the nest until after I started the speed upgrade at the pool.
AFter the pool is done you just crank out lings and attack when you get to 33 supply. 5 Banelings to bust down the wall and the rest to mop up the troops. If you wait for more lings they are able to build enough troops to fight you back 1/2 of the time, go sooner and you don't have enough to clean em up.
What I've found is that you need to take out the troops first.. Don't go straight for the SCV's as you split up your lings and will eventually get cleaned out. Even if you loose 80% of the lings taking out the rines or mauraders your macro should ensure another 8 lings arriving at the terran base within a matter of seconds after that wall comes down.
But again, as was said you are better off ditching this strat right now and practice the hell out of something else. This should only be used for fun against low level players because I mean let's face it, the baneling bust opener has gotta be one of the most fun ways to kill a terran. But the more you use this now, the less practice you will have on a viable strategy when you ladder up and that just means more losses that are going to be on your score until you perfect a viable gold and plat level opener.
bullshit
i get diamond 3 times in a row with thit strat very well executed, you will stay in low leagues because bad micro/macro mechanics and wrong decision making, not for a specific build. If you have good timing ANY proxy-cheese strategy will be very strong, just need to have nice multitasking... BUT u are not training nor getting a better playing doing just that, you can have alot of wins, but if you want to improve, best way are macro oriented and safe build orders.
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BUT u are not training nor getting a better playing doing just that, you can have alot of wins, but if you want to improve, best way are macro oriented and safe build orders.
i dont believe that the only way to ever improve is to play a macro oriented safe build order.
Aggressive play with harassment can be perfectly valid imho.
Knowing how to do "cheese", harassment, timing attacks, and so on, will actually improve your play, not worsen it.
Of course, knowing how to play a laid back macro game is also an asset every player should have.
I believe that knowing how to execute multiple things is a very good way to improve, rather than sticking to a single tactic. Be it cheese or macro.
Also, seriously, I dont want to play long macro games against terran mech armies. Id rather punish them for teching early on, or watch them make early units, and then keep the pressure to prevent them from getting a huge unbeatable army and a million sensor towers.
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Here's a replay where I successfully defended against a baneling bust after spawning in horizontal positions on metalopalis. This dude was placed in plat after the last reset so I don't really know if he's that good or if he executed the build properly, but i'm fairly certain that even if he got banelings out 20 seconds faster i could have stopped it just as easily... And even when I was in diamond facing top 10 zergs they all failed whenever they tried baneling busts, it's pretty easy to stop imo.
http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/7479
edit: also it really doesn't matter if he had waited to show he had so many zerglings, i wall off on pretty much every single map vs zerg and open with 4 warp gate, which is good against baneling busts
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people keep talking about how it's easy counter IF you scout it
well... what if you can't scout it?
first probe sent, yea
you'll prolly scout the pool and that's it for your scout info if you're protoss
early lings/speedlings will prolly contain you
for terran, scan it? i don't know how to block that except by massing ovies over the building
zerg? kill the ovie with queen?
so when zerg comes with banelings, it'll be kinda too late for anything cuz you'll have no idea what he was up too
here's a replay with BSOS playing zerg going baneling killing terran fast teching to viking which everyone thought to be banshee rush
[url blocked]
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So I'm new to team liquid and SC2 I bought a week after came out, tight right?
I played BW alot...but the custom games (ZC <3 u) so doesn't really count...and I was like 13.
Now I'm trying to play SC2 pro.
I'm not pro, uh not even close but anyways to the point.
Ya so I'm rank 21 currently and I pulled a bling bust in plat. Ya about that...it was scanned.
Why did I do it?
Because I about nutted myself when I saw T build 3 supply depots as a wall.
5 blings busted all 3 depots and after a second batch of lings it was gg.
So ya this does happen in Plat and uh ya its f'n awesome to pull off...The great things about Z is sometimes you don't need a good army you just need an overwhelming amount of them.
I pulled off a bling bust against 2 siege tanks and 10 rines 4 rauders.
It took 24 blings smart micro and was gg.
I sent in 6lings first and 24 blings followed in a straight line
6 lings blown up 6 blings blown up
18 blings > 1tank and all rines and rauders
So uhhh ya this is tight do it, practice it cuz man it would suck to see a three supply depot wall in on a scout and not know how to pull this off. All strategies in SC2 are worth learning and if you think this one isn't you will grow up to be a bad player.
Its like learning to play chess but not wanting to learn how to use your knight because last time you lost it and now you think it is useless. Try it out, get a feel for when to use it and how to use. Make it part of your aresenal.
Never forget Z is a responsive race not a proactive race.
You never want to just build blindly as Z(including muta harass, this seems to be solid blind build but I have gotten bent over by cannons at mineral line or rines)
YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SCOUT AS Z
Maybe I'm getting off topic but probably not.
Bling Bust is tiiiiight
Using Bling Bust in the wrong scenario is nooooooot
I hate the word "opener" when refering to Z
I never have a BO when I play Z
I just build whatever counters what my opponent is doing thats my BO
I like to scout at 7 or 8 and always scout again before I attack. I like to send 1 ling up the ramp and see what happens...
It can mean the difference from going offense to defense as Z
and using those Blings to stop a bio ball...
ohhh and btw F other peoples BOs, use them as a reference but I like to F ling speed and throw bling nest down first and bust asap. Or even go double extractor for mass blings.
Running straight to mineral line or something with speedlings often fails cause they follow after and kill em with their units.
It is important to note and remember that ling speed is 4 blings and the time it takes to collect 100 gas. I suggest scouting it out and see what the best strat is.
The other thing is blings own most tier 1...hellions though...seriously you better make sure you scout or you will loose as Z and well, as the other races too but more pathetically as Z. This is paper, rock, scissors you better find out what they are going or you will only win when they happen to have a BO that is naturally weak against your blind BO.
Always remember Z has the ability to spawn an entire army in the time it takes most races to build 1 unit. “Oh crap he killed my OL by his base with 5 Vrays, I’ll build 10 corruptors before he gets here!”
In summary to all you naysayers, ya you can learn less strategies if you want...I'm trying to learn them all and go pro. Stay diamond/plat/gold or less if you feel like it, debate the viability of learning if you want.
However, never forget only the ignorant advocate ignorance and the hopeless hopelessness.
Man this looks like a pretty serious rant…sorry I get passionate when people say the best strategy is learning less strategy.
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On May 23 2010 18:04 Owarida wrote:
Banelings doing friendly damage? Have you seen how few hp lings have? You would essentially be spending 25/25 to blow up your own lings or cause the risk of a chain reaction in your blings where your entire bling army explodes randomly.
I'd so love to see that, dumb as hell but also probably damn hilarious. 
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EPT
