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I play Protoss and 14xx in Gold (so I'm usually matched against top Gold - lower Plat players). Recently I just lost against a Terran with a very nice timing push.
He basically went:
- blocking ramp
- pumping purely marines from 2 rax with reactors
- factory -> tech lab -> siege tanks
- starsport -> medivac
T pushed out when he got his first 2 medivacs (by that time he already had a group of 12-15 rines, 2-3 tanks). He forced me to retreat by slowly sieging - unseiging tanks (basically in the exact same manner you would do when you execute a surprise bio tank push vP in Starcraft 1). On the way to my base, he also
- added vikings
- later built CC to expand
By the time he could siege tanks outside my base, I was dead. We played on Steppes of War which took T a short time to reach my base, but I think this push can also be done on other maps.
I found this push very strong and solid - as his marines totally raped my immortals, tanks melting stalkers, and he got like 3-4 vikings ready by the time he reached my base to deal with collosi (if I don't have collosi then they will be use to provide upramp vision for tanks, support marines and harass). It was much more solid than an all-in push as it provided T with a nice window to expand after the push came out. If P attempted to expand before that they would be punished even harder.
Another reason why I'm fascinated with this push is how its micro-intensive execution resemble TvP m&m tank push so much it made me feel so warm inside (while watching the replay I could totally hear Boxer vs Foru on Guillotine **tanku tanku boom boom boom boom** in my head!). Also there's less risk than in SC1 as T goes infanry v P in SC2 anyway.
Boxer will definitely like this when he starts Starcraft 2 
So I guess what I want to discuss are:
- What do you think about this push?
I spent 15 minutes checking strategy forum but haven't found a mention of it, except in TvT.
- How should P react?
I'm thinking of doing the same thing as P did in SC1 - micro stalkers to hit and run while retreating + not retreat directly back to base (to have some flanking option). But it still looks pretty hard as some deadliest responses P used to have in SC1 (DT, reaver, storms, zeal bombs) are no longer that effective.
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try to catch his tanks as hes moving out, or unsieged. keep an observer above his group at all times, because the terrans position is so heavily reliant on good position, and dont forget to flank. zeal sentry should work well with a couple immo thrown in for good measure, micro the immortals and focus the tanks down, ff the marines so they cant kite as well, try to flank them with a couple zeals from the back as well. dont micro stalkers, because nothing will have the range of the sieged tanks, its simply better to hit terran hard from all sides with lots of units and his push will crumble easily. if hes sieging tanks outside your base, youve pretty much already lost 
~1450 plat
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I'm not sure if "timing" push is the right word. Timing attacks exploit a particular weakness of the opponent before he gets a certain tech up or while he's temporarily weak from expanding. There's no particular timing he exploited during that game was there?
That being said marine tank is a rather weak beast I find. Marines alone can't really handle any sort of early agression so you're doomed to never expand until this push happens. Storm kills this, zealots with charge kill this, stalkers with blink kill it and frankly observers do too, because it's alot harder to scan for the protoss army (esp. on one CC) than it is for the protoss to come from behind. Guardian shield also makes marines do squat all and tank splash on zealots will kill your marines fast. I always find marine/tank works only when the protoss is too set on his stalker/immortal "standard" build and doesn't even bother to scout because he expects to just roll over the terran eventually anyways. But I agree when tanks work they feel rewarding
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I just got own by this. And this guy take it one step further, he have more medver and carry everything and drop behind my mineral line. 12 marine, stim, and 3 tanks seighe. Count break his wall. Lost5+ 5 stalker. Retreat. 2 minute later, the drop shows up. 1 immortal come late. GG.
PS: stalker doesn't really counter marine...takes like 5 shots to kill 1...
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i dont understand what timing is it in this build? it does not look like "hit the opponent @ x:xx before his first xx is out" thing
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Build your obs first and don't blindly build immortals vs mass marines. When you see 2x reactor go chargelot+sentry. As the game progresses, tech to storm/colossi.
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United States47024 Posts
No Terran should ever be able to get away with playing mid-game TvP without Ghosts. Abuse his lack of them and make sure to get full use out of High Templars and/or Sentries (The former absolutely tearing marine-heavy compositions to shreds, and the latter putting a huge dent in the amount of damage that marines deal).
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A T with that many marines should easily be countered by Storm. Since you can get storm as soon as you warp in with the upgrade, that should deal with the marines, while blink Stalkers take care of Vikings and tanks.
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Thanks for the inputs guys
The reason why I thought it was a "timing" push is because it was pulled off right after P usually expanded to force them cancel it, and judging by the build order I think it would be earlier than when P could have storm or even zealot charge so even if those tech came out, T already dealt enough damage or nicely set up a expo (while slow down P expo greatly). The point here is as long as tanks could siege outside your base the whole effort is already paid off by tanks' damage / well set expo whether you could storm/zealot charge the marines or not.
If you play Terran and you used to do timing bio tank push in SC1, I would love to see you try this out and post reps
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Could you please upload a replay of this? Thanks
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Mass chargelots will take down both rines and tanks so easily. (splash damage helps too) HT later on will just rape rine hard and give zealots an opening to get close to tanks as well. This strategy definitely need either hellion or marauder support imo.
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I don't know exactly what your build is or the timing of his push, since you didn't upload a replay, but even more important than your unit composition is your positioning, especially against a tank/marine push. On steppes of war you should be able to get a sick arc with your immortal/sentry/zealot/stalker army, especially if you abuse the LOS blockers. With 1-2 observers you can attack right as he unsieges some tanks and pushes, and with proper flanking I really don't think marine/tank is a proper unit composition on steppes of war.
It's not really even necessary to have charge or blink or anything like that. The center of steppes of war is so open you can get a full surround on their army, unlike on LT/metalopolis/kulas where there's a lot of stuff in the way.
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Tried it for a time, got bashed later.
It just takes too much time to get this force, by that time Protoss should've teched high enough to take it out with storm or colossi or just mass mass mass and some more units.
It's just that Zealot-Sentry cuts through the marines and the tanks by themselves won't win the fight anymore when there are only tanks and ranged units left (given that the Marines stand until the zealots are dead, lol ^^)
Afterwards, Protoss just plays out their incredible rebuilding capacity and owns me.
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EPT
