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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
If Hydras were T1 and roaches were T2 then early game aggression would be a bit easier. It's pretty hard to play with weak units (zerglings), units that die after they do damage (banelings) and GtG tanks (roaches) that move extremely slow relative to T and P units. And hey maybe lurkers could come back into T2 to avoid the bitching from some of the people about Zerg :p | ||
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Insanious
Canada1251 Posts
I find that people fear the 6/8 pool rushes more then me as a zerg fear being rushed. A 10 pool shut down any sort of cheese anyone can throw at me besides cannon / bunker rushing me... but a scouting overlord fixes that problem. Really... I don't see the need for early aggression. As zerg i see my overwhelming maco potential and total map control for most of the game being an early form of agression. T and P have NO map control v zerg once speedlings come out, and they fear the Zerg Macro Machine. Those things put pressure on the T and P. If you say do 10 min NR with T, P, and Z... the Z will win hands down, theres just nothing that can be done vs the macro that a Z can put out... I mean really just time your self in practice games. Sure T and P can tech pretty far, but if you know you wont be attacked, in 10 mins when you have 3 base and are getting your broodlords up well... Zerg have psychological early agression and do not need units like reapers to do physical early aggression. Does T and P want to waste mining time moving their scvs/ probes to their choke to wall? No. Does this hurt their already smaller economy? Yes. Does the T and P want to do early timing pushes? No. But do they have to? Yes, they need to shut down the Zerg macro machine. Does the Z need to do anything but play standard to win? Yes. Do T and P need to play standard to beat Z? No, usually most plays v Z are all ins, where if it fails you are too far behind economically to ever catch up... Zerg are mind ninjas... where T and P cannot get in to see whats going on, you come out of no where with 50 hydras and just tear their puny armies up. | ||
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Megabyte
United States29 Posts
Then you try and knock out his plyon, forcing him to pull probes off the line. The only response that the Protoss has is to go 2 gate at this point. Meanwhile, you transition to roaches at around 18 supply and attack again with about 6 roaches. If you did a good job harrasing with the first 8 lings, the cybercore should be delayed enough where it will be a GG. If your roach push fails, you tech to Lair and scout to see if you can expand. Its not a 100% perfect but it does allow you to put early game pressure and put the Toss out of his Zone. | ||
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febreze
167 Posts
On May 03 2010 11:31 Vexx wrote: This is stupid advice for reasons covered in the thread already. A SC2 wall is a one team door, not a wall. You can start talking about map control once you have an army that controls the map and contains your opponent. Fast expanding is an investment (an expense) that does not pay for itself for a few minutes. Until the point where the expansion is making profit, you are behind one base play and if they attack during that period of time, you will lose. Fine, I concede. However, I think you would agree the game would be pretty boring if every game could be won by massing tier 1 units. Zerg are still on even footing in the race to tier 2, and poor walls still cost games. | ||
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lotri
United States81 Posts
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sk`
Japan442 Posts
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SQneo
Canada89 Posts
Ling speed takes forever to finish, they should decrease the time needed for the upgrade. It helps in playing mind games at the ramps and also stopping timing pushes. There's nothing I can do after they wall in, and if I don't sneak in a ling or use my overlord to peek inside, I HAVE TO tech to lair ASAP in fear of air attacks which i think is complete BS. | ||
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peckham33
United States267 Posts
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Insanious
Canada1251 Posts
there are a lot of things that we haven't found the correct use for yet... people thought that pheonix's sucked and were useless... now look people are massing them like crazy because of Nony. Zerg, Terran, and Protoss are far from being fully explored. I mean seriously, Most people in the NA and EU server don't use Spine crawlers, while in Asia spine crawlers are used like MAD. There are a lot of things people don't use yet, or don't use to the fullest... give it some time, there is a lot of exploring left to do. Experiment with corrupter harass (shut down his production buildings for 30s = awesome abilitiy, use it more... keep him from getting those colossi) Experiment with burrow (set up ambushes / start using burrowed roaches again) Experiment with different builds. Anyone tried to do a one base to broodlords... just test things out come on, the game isnt stale yet... people just havent tried yet. | ||
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leeznon
United States255 Posts
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Thamoo
Canada234 Posts
Buffing spore crawler's range by 1 would help ALOT. Currently the only time I use spore crawlers is against mutalisks because of their short-range. Banshee's and void rays can always find places to attack easily unless you have like 5 spores... | ||
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red_b
United States1267 Posts
Personally I like the 15 pool 16 hatch build the best out of any build in starcraft 2, I feel like that vs T and P, especially on the garbage level Im at, if I survive the first push I win. My economy literally EXPLODES, which is the reason they have to do those pushes in the first place right? I realize that if your idea of a fun game is constant non stop action from the beginning that kind of sucks. I think it would be super sweet if 3 zerglings could take a zealot though. | ||
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Shenron
United States105 Posts
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pigscanfly
Singapore147 Posts
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Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
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ManiacTheZealot
United States490 Posts
On May 03 2010 18:47 Catch]22 wrote: I do agree that zerglings and banelings are a bit too weak atm, even with their diminished HP, Zealots take on far more zerglings than they used to, and even with speed they can't properly chase running units, its like you NEED Adrenal Glands to even be able to attack moving targets with them, an upgrade that requires Hive, and provides little other benefit. Zerglings and banelings are the most tactical units in the Zerg arsenal. Would you buff their damage if it meant increasing build time and decreasing speed? I wouldn't. If you need to beat a lot of zealots build roaches. | ||
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ZergOwaR
Norway280 Posts
ofc the player got sligthly bm and went "how can toss defend against that" "fu" then left. wouldn't waiting for the lings to get abit up the ramp then splitting the army with a forcefield int he middle of the gang sort of stop this lure totaly though? zealots can kill all the trapped lings right? edit: i guess this goes under the psychological terror mentioned above  | ||
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Izzachar
Sweden285 Posts
On May 03 2010 11:54 houseurmusic wrote: I disagree with OP. Banelings are the way to go for early aggression against all 3 races. I am rank 10 platinum (playing for a total of 3 days) and been having much success with the following build I made against teching opponents. 10 - ovie 10 - extractor trick and scout. 14 - gas 13 - pool 15 - ovie This opening stops any kind of rush and leaves you with a decent eco. If toss is teching, terran is going for fast tech or reaper, or anything build vs zerg the following has worked for me. When pool pops -> 2 lings, speed up, and queen. next 50 gas baneling nest and take 2 off gas. make non top lings until 26/26 then take expo. When banelings nest pops speed will be done make 3 - 4 banelings outside opponents base. Attack with about 15 speedlings and 3-4 banelings. Toss will not have a sentry yet and if they do, it wont help them. Banelings will hit and kill there zelots/supply depot/pylon. You will be in there base with speedlings while pumping more if everything has gone well. I usually like to run a few speed lings to the corner of there base and morph them into banelings while running around with my other lings. Then use those banelings to hit the worker line. **This build is especially effective vs those damn void ray rushes. You can definitely do some damage if micro'd right. If you cant win the game right there you can now begin building another queen and massing drones. I'm not at my home comp now, but i can try to post some reps when i get home. Was gonna try this today. Ended up in 5 ZvZ in a row. And one against protoss. He went two gate and I owned him, even with 2 sentries trying to block his ramp. although I can't help to think it was one of the worst toss players I faced in a long time. Still I felt confident during the game. Thanks. I will look into this more later today and hope it continues to provide | ||
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baconbits
United States419 Posts
On May 03 2010 13:37 lotri wrote: Speaking of zerg mines, it might be kinda cool if they allow blings to burrow but they auto-unburrow when enemy units are near. Maybe that's imba though. They already do; just set unburrow to autocast. | ||
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denzelz
United States604 Posts
10 pool vs P (use first 6 lings to kill first zealot, harass mineral lines). 20 Roach 19 Gas ~22-23 Expand Midgame harrass by researching burrow and roach burrow movement. Terran is almost impossible to harrass but I would much rather play against a 1 base T than against a siege expanding T. Smart Ts expand, bad Ts stay 1 base. Honestly, I would much rather focus on macro than harrass. Harass wouldn't win you games against good players. | ||
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