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On April 21 2010 02:25 Chill wrote:
That doesn't make sense because you're still only going to have 8 returning at a time, even if it's across the map. Someone mentioned the replay shows the 1-space-away expansion mining out first as well, although I can't watch the replay right now.
However! His point is that this method allows each patch to always be getting mined. If the Nexus is in the "correct" position this doesn't happen. If a "close" patch has 3 workers one will just peace, and then since 2 workers isn't enough to mine the patch constantly, things will be suboptimal until another worker goes into "wander" mode and walks all the way over to that patch. Even if this happens immediately, the added walking time for the worker makes that method suboptimal, since with aether's method the third probe would just be standing at the patch ready to mine as soon as the previous guy got his minerals and left.
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On April 21 2010 23:35 BDF92 wrote:
Am I missing something? I see in the OP the numbers to back up his arguement, bonus income. But what I don't get is that once you are fully saturated *normally* with about 20-24 workers, the mineral nodes are constantly being mined from. And that rate is constant... no amount of space from the CC/nexus/hatch will change that.
The whole argument resolves around the point that for saturated bases, harvester work is not the bottleneck anymore, but patch accessability (so far so clear). There is a phenomenon in SC2 that for "close" mineral patches, a third harvester does not wait at his original patch, if it is currently blocked by another harvester, but rather starts to search for a free patch (decided by the AI). This "worker dancing" prevents close patches from being mined constantly. Now, if you set up your CC/Nexus/Hatch one space away, the dancing stops, and thus all patches are constantly mined from without downtime (if enough workers are provided). This increases minerals per minute.
Edit: or you just read blipster's post above :-P
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I tested this at well.
16 workers will normally mine at about 10.97 minerals/second on 8 patches.
24 workers will normally mine at about 13.48 minerals/second on 8 paches.
5 trillion workers will mine at about 13.86 minerals/second on 8 patches (this is 100% effective mining).
Then I tested moving the Hatchery one space farther from the mineral field (on Kulas Ravine at the natural expos):
16 workers will mine at about 9.88 minerals/second.
24 workers will mine at about 13.86 minerals/second.
Conclusion: Holy monkey! Placing the Hatchery one space farther will let you fully saturate at 24 workers.
It's beautiful to watch actually. Well, at first I thought my game had bugged because I always had a drone mining.  There's no moving around, just beautiful, perfect mining.
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Pretty interesting research, never seen a pro do it though but if you say its true this will you give you indeed the match in a close game.
Definitely will try it out when I get a beta key,
Thanks.
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On April 22 2010 01:42 Derogatory wrote:
Pretty interesting research, never seen a pro do it though but if you say its true this will you give you indeed the match in a close game.
Definitely will try it out when I get a beta key,
Thanks.
My guess is that no pro has noticed it yet
The so called "pros" really aren't very good at Starcraft 2 yet.
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On April 20 2010 13:51 AssuredVacancy wrote:
What if you force 3 workers to mine a close proximity patch? The third worker would wait for a while, but would it not mine at the same rate as 3 workers mining a far patch?
Its not possible.
I tried REALLY HARD for a REALLY LONG TIME to get a third worker on the close patch. It just won't ever happen.
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Sorry for the bump. Somehow I missed all the big OLD POST warnings, and the bump warning at the bottom. Somebody linked this post in a more recent one, and I suck.
:/
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On June 22 2010 16:06 Skrag wrote:
Sorry for the bump. Somehow I missed all the big OLD POST warnings, and the bump warning at the bottom. Somebody linked this post in a more recent one, and I suck.
:/
*aww* why the long face? Now maybe some good players sees this thread and we can see this put to use in some real games :D
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I was about ready to start throwing fire before for posting about a topic that's been discussed 500 million times already (and it's even in the friggen in-game tool tips) when I noticed it had simply been accidentally ressed. 
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actually thank you for bumping this. it's really interesting and i'm glad to have this info! i'll totally use it.
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Wow, I never thought of doing this, and it makes sense.
If a mineral patch has 2 workers, a third worker will stay on that patch if it's 4 units away, or move on if it's 3 units away.
If he moves on and all minerals are saturated, he is effectively not adding anything. If he stays, he is adding a little bit.
Very cool.
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Nice little edge we will have over people who haven't read this . I hope Blizzard doesn't fix this anytime soon. Thanks a lot Aether
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EPT
