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This thread is merely a curiosity on my part since I dont have beta and I will need some volunteers to help me with my questions and inquiries. I think i have a specific enough focus to merit a special thread. I also think some of the wiki information is out of date, which is why im seeking clarification. Furthermore, there is some theory crafting, which I hope we can bring to the realm of reality. If I have violated some rule, I apologize.
The damage of the Voidray is stated as 2 (+4 to armored).
To better understand the Void ray, my questions are the following:
1) Does the Void ray still have 3 stages of attack (initial, middle and final)? (I'm assuming yes)
Answer: Yes
-If so, how long between each stage?
Answer: Approximately 3 seconds, or around 6 or 7 "attacks"
2) Is it a simple damage-per-second calculation?
Answer: The Void Ray deals its damage in separate "attacks" just like every other unit, the only difference being a "continuous beam" visual rather than several "shots" or "bullets" (ex: stalker)
-If not, how fast does the VR deal damage? (more/less than 2 (or 6) damage-per-second in the first stage?)
Answer: The VR has an approximate DPS of:
VR against light armored:
Stage 1: 4 (no upgrades)/ 16 (+3 upgrades)
Stage 2: 8 (no upgrades)/ 20 (+3 upgrades)
Stage 3: 16 (no upgrades)/ 40 (+3 upgrades)
VR against armored:
Stage 1: 12 (no upgrades)/ 24 (+3 upgrades)
Stage 2: 24 (no upgrades)/ 36 (+3 upgrades)
Stage 3: 48 (no upgrades)/ 60 (+3 upgrades)
3) The Flux Vanes upgrade increases the rate at which it powers up. How much faster does this let the VR reach stage 2 and 3? (minus how many seconds?)
4) How does armor play into the Void ray's attack?
Answer: Gets subtracted every "attack" just like for every other unit, which keeps the damage from being too unbelievably high.
5) Is there anything else specific that we should know about its attack (besides that it follows stuff?)
Answer: If it reaches a stage (say, stage 2) it will stay in that stage for several seconds after killing the unit. It seems to be about 3 seconds based on this video:
http://www.youtube.com/user/HuskyStarcraft#p/u/2/lVoiLaRoaAc
If, for example, you don't reach stage 2 before the target dies, the beam will stay at stage 1.
Now, for the interesting part (hopefully).
I want to know what is the best system for microing void rays. I am assuming there will be some interesting micro for them.
For example, imagine that 8 void rays are attacking a base that has 3 barracks in it. Stats are not important for this drill, but will become very much so with its application to the game.
1) The obvious thing to do is to just let the VRs just focus fire the barracks down (the no-micro solution).
2) However, after a few seconds, the VRs might begin to reach stage two, and when this happens, you may want to take off half of them (going by the pre-beta system of attack here and assuming damage doubles each stage) and transfer them to the second barracks. You are doing an equivalent amount of damage with half the units and allowing the second half to begin to power up on the next target.
In this way, the first 4 are still firing, attempting to reach stage 3 while the 4 you took off are starting to power up to stage 2 on the second barracks.
3) Still, there is further complication. Say that the Void rays at the first barracks reach stage 3 and then kill it almost immediately thereafter. The time you spent powering all of them up to stage 3 would have been wasted since you could have been powering them up to stage 2 on the third and last barracks. You could have left only 1 or 2 VRs to finish the first barracks off while the remainder start on the third one. If we take this as a given, then there may be certain numbers of voidrays that are ideal for killing certain targets. As a player, you want to make the most of each stage against certain units or buildings.
Assume there is a fight between 8 VRs and 4 BCs.
1) Hypothetically, 8 Void rays power up against 4 BCs and they just manage to reach stage 2 before killing that BC. Like in [#3] (above), some of them wasted their time (you could have split off some VRs and used them to start powering up their attacks on the other 3 BCs). The idea is to spend the maximum amount of time per stage.
2) However, if 8 VRs kill a BC just before reaching stage 2, that is a good thing because no damage is wasted and you can proceed to the next just as if the VR were a normal unit. However, if 6 are sufficient to do the job, you should consider taking 2 and use them to target a different BC. The objective is to avoid overkill
3) However, this brings up another question. Since the BC is a powerful unit that can fight back (4 BCs can toast some VRs with yamato cannon if you're not careful), part of your calculations have to include the damage they deal to you. As always, your objective is to deal the maximum damage you can while taking minimum damage in return. To do this, the best strategy is to destroy individual BCs as fast as possible (no brainer: the less BCs he has, the less damage he can do to you).
[Q] So, is it faster to kill a BC with 8 VRs focus firing it (assume that is the perfect number) or to split the VRs into 2 groups of 4 and focus on 2 separate BCs, killing them both at the same time but forcing the VRs to power up to stage 2?
To Consider:
Sometimes, the goals of (1) attempting to stay the maximum time in each stage, to deal the most damage, (2) avoid overkill, and, (3) kill the unit or building ASAP will conflict. It will be interesting to see how these priorities interact. I'm curious if it is even worth microing. It may be that its better to just focus fire stuff as fast as possible and to kill it, depending on unit/building stats and the attack mechanic of the VR. Maybe it will be too complicated for too little gain. I dont know. I do hope, however, that this unit creates some interesting choices when you micro it, and that the best players will know and understand how this unit deals its damage so that it will do the most damage possible in the shortest period of time.
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In my experience this isn't true. It takes a 2-3 seconds for the void ray to lose its charge. During that time, it can attack any other target to keep up its charge; just one "tick" of damage from the beam is enough to prevent the charge decay for another 2-3 seconds.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=113473¤tpage=2
I think this makes most of the issue moot. It boils down to the choice between the 3 options in your consider section. do you want to get optimal damage output, or do you want to eliminate single targets successively.
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Thanks. On SCL, apparently someone said that it charges up and if it stays in the same place, it wont lose its power buff, even if it stays there forever.
So the buff stays depending on SPACE, not TIME (which i think is weird).
His charged up state stay for a certain distance of flight. If you are completely charged after destroying a building and you hold position, the charged state stay indefinitely. And if you move of 2-3 square (maximum) you can still fire at full power. After more than 2-3 case of flight the crystal of the void ray stop glowing and you have to charge up again.
http://sclegacy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2714
Can anyone confirm it?
Also, someone else suggested killing larger units as a strategy, and then using the buffed VRs to kill lots of smaller units. What do people think of that?
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I can't confirm the space instead of time theory. I just tested it by attacking my own pylon and then ordering the Ray to stop and hold. Even standing in place, if the Void Ray ceases attacking for a certain time, its vanes will close regardless of whether it has moved from where it was originally attacking. Maybe there's some trick I'm missing.
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You can just watch any replay with Void Ray use to see that the power charge diminishes after a set amount of non-attacking time. I don't have a replay handy, but I've seen it before.
Oh, and the "It will disappear once you move it" may be an illusion caused by the fact that it takes a while for the Void Ray to start moving again.
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On February 25 2010 11:29 EchOne wrote:
I can't confirm the space instead of time theory. I just tested it by attacking my own pylon and then ordering the Ray to stop and hold. Even standing in place, if the Void Ray ceases attacking for a certain time, its vanes will close regardless of whether it has moved from where it was originally attacking. Maybe there's some trick I'm missing.
Attack directly from one building/unit to another quickly I think is the trick. I figured this out from watching tons of vods of void rays(about 75% of the vods I've watched).
I also don't have beta but I have studied stats and vods closely.
Edit: 3rd post+5th backs it up. Shows "trick" Void Ray SC2trick
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On February 24 2010 05:33 Knee_of_Justice wrote:
This thread is merely a curiosity on my part since I dont have beta and I will need some volunteers to help me with my questions and inquiries. I think i have a specific enough focus to merit a special thread. I also think some of the wiki information is out of date, which is why im seeking clarification. Furthermore, there is some theory crafting, which I hope we can bring to the realm of reality. If I have violated some rule, I apologize.
The damage of the Voidray is stated as 2 (+4 to armored).
To better understand the Void ray, my questions are the following:
1) Does the Void ray still have 3 stages of attack (initial, middle and final)? (I'm assuming yes)
-If so, how long between each stage? (it used to be 3 seconds)
2) Is it a simple damage-per-second calculation? (ex: VR attacks an armored unit with 0 armor for 10 seconds and does 60 damage, excluding powering up?)
-If not, how fast does the VR deal damage? (more/less than 2 (or 6) damage-per-second in the first stage?)
3) The Flux Vanes upgrade increases the rate at which it powers up. How much faster does this let the VR reach stage 2 and 3? (minus how many seconds?)
4) How does armor play into the Void ray's attack? (ie: if it deals damage-per-second, does the armor get counted every second?)
5) Is there anything else specific that we should know about its attack (besides that it follows stuff?)
1. Yes.
2. It deals damage once every 0.X seconds(dunno the exact period). Visually it's a continuos beam, but it works just like the attacks of all other units.
3. The upgrade has been replaced by a move speed upgrade.
4. Armor is substracted every damage tick.
5. The damage doubles after each new beam activates(so it's 2->4->8 damage against non-armored and 6->12->24 against armored) and the beams reset only if the void ray stops attacking for several seconds.
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1) How long between each stage?
2) Right, I knew that it dealt damage in "ticks" like psionic storm, rather than continuous damage, but im trying to figure out how much damage it deals precisely.
3) Really? Is it effective?
4) Figures... now we need to know the "ticks"
5) so the base damage doubles, but the bonus damage doesnt? Are you 100% sure?
Emikochan from SCL suggested the idea of powering up your VR against some hallucinations before a battle. That seems pretty situational, but a good strategy!
I've seen some strats where you build hallucinations and charge up on those before entering the enemiy base, devastating
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Void Rays are really promising in term of microing. The unit attack is made in such a way you can do crazy damage with proper micro but you can also screw it up big time if youre not gosu enough.
Can't wait to see what pros will be able to do with those ships. Once upgraded, they are so fast you can use them all around the map for multiple purpose. Seems very hard to master tho.
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On February 26 2010 04:56 Knee_of_Justice wrote:1) How long between each stage? 2) Right, I knew that it dealt damage in "ticks" like psionic storm, rather than continuous damage, but im trying to figure out how much damage it deals precisely. 3) Really? Is it effective? 4) Figures... now we need to know the "ticks" 5) so the base damage doubles, but the bonus damage doesnt? Are you 100% sure? Emikochan from SCL suggested the idea of powering up your VR against some hallucinations before a battle. That seems pretty situational, but a good strategy! Show nested quote +I've seen some strats where you build hallucinations and charge up on those before entering the enemiy base, devastating
I've never said bonus damage doesn't double. How the hell does 6 -> 12 -> 24 mean that the bonus damage doesn't double?
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edit: wrong thread sorry.
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Sorry lololol, i misunderstood you.
So if you say it deals its damage every 0.X seconds, does that mean it deals MORE than 2(+4) damage per second in its lowest stage?
Would you please test to see how much damage it does per second (if you have beta)?
If I have a VR and Im attacking a bunch of marines, if i attack one, my VR wont power up, but if i kill them quickly in succession, my beam will gradually get stronger, even if im attacking lots of smaller units?
Or is it more like: I have just killed a Thor and my beam is at stage 3. If i quickly attack a nearby marine, it will deal maximum damage to it?
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bumped for purpose of having these same questions myself and wanting them answered by people who actually have beta.
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The second beam powers up after 7 attacks, and the third after 6 additional attacks.
If you change targets(or stop attacking) before reaching that number of attacks the counter will reset, so you can't hit a unit 4 times and another one 3 times to power up from one beam to two.
The amount of beams already powered up will reset only if you don't attack anything for several seconds.
In my first observation I missed an exception to the doubling rule - when attacking non-armored targets, powering up from 1 beam to 2 beams does not double the damage, but instead just adds +2 damage(no difference if you don't have an attack upgrade), so upgrades aren't as effective against non-armored units, with +3 the damage would be 5->7->14.
You also don't need a beta key to check some things, since watching replays doesn't actually require one.
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On February 28 2010 06:32 lololol wrote:
The second beam powers up after 7 attacks, and the third after 6 additional attacks.
If you change targets(or stop attacking) before reaching that number of attacks the counter will reset, so you can't hit a unit 4 times and another one 3 times to power up from one beam to two.
The amount of beams already powered up will reset only if you don't attack anything for several seconds.
In my first observation I missed an exception to the doubling rule - when attacking non-armored targets, powering up from 1 beam to 2 beams does not double the damage, but instead just adds +2 damage(no difference if you don't have an attack upgrade), so upgrades aren't as effective against non-armored units, with +3 the damage would be 5->7->14.
You also don't need a beta key to check some things, since watching replays doesn't actually require one.
How do you watch replays without a beta key?
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So after dealing 2 (6 vs armored) 7 times, the beam increases to 4 (12 vs armored).
Then after dealing 4 (12 vs armored) 6 times, it begins to deal 8 (24 vs armored) from then on out?
>Also, according to SC2Armory, the VR gets +2 attack per upgrade level, so +3 weapons gives a total of 8(+4 vs armored).
http://www.sc2armory.com/game/protoss/units/void-ray
VR attacks light armored unit:
Stage 1:
no upgrades/ +1/ +2/ +3
1) 2/ 4/ 6/ 8
2) 2/ 4/ 6/ 8
3) 2/ 4/ 6/ 8
4) 2/ 4/ 6/ 8
5) 2/ 4/ 6/ 8
6) 2/ 4/ 6/ 8
7) 2/ 4/ 6/ 8
Total: 14/ 28/ 42/ 56
Grand Total: 14/ 28/ 42/ 56
Stage 2:
no upgrades/ +1/ +2/ +3
1) 2(+2)/ 4(+2)/ 6(+2)/ 8(+2) *** Doesn't double from Stage 1, instead, it's +2 ***
2) 4/ 6/ 8/ 10
3) 4/ 6/ 8/ 10
4) 4/ 6/ 8/ 10
5) 4/ 6/ 8/ 10
6) 4/ 6/ 8/ 10
Total: 24, 36, 48, 60
Grand Total: 38, 64, 90, 116
Stage 3:
8/ 12/ 16/ 20
etc.
VR attacks armored unit:
Stage 1:
no upgrades/ +1/ +2/ +3
1) 2(+4 to armored)/ 4(+4 to armored)/ 6 (+4 to armored)/ 8 (+4 to armored)
2) 6/ 8/ 10/ 12
3) 6/ 8/ 10/ 12
4) 6/ 8/ 10/ 12
5) 6/ 8/ 10/ 12
6) 6/ 8/ 10/ 12
7) 6/ 8/ 10/ 12
Total: 42/ 56/ 70/ 84
Grand Total: 42/ 56/ 70/ 84
Stage 2:
no upgrades/ +1/ +2/ +3
1) 4(+8 to armored)/ 6 (+8 to armored)/ 8 (+8 to armored)/ 10 (+8 to armored)
2) 12/14/16/18
3) 12/14/16/18
4) 12/14/16/18
5) 12/14/16/18
6) 12/14/16/18
Total: 72/ 84/ 96/ 108
Grand Total: 114/ 140/ 116/ 192
Stage 3:
8(+16 to armored)/ 10(+16 to armored)/ 12(+16 to armored)/ 14(+16 to armored)
etc.
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Holy COW! Void Rays are NASTY when they are upgraded fully!
Any idea how long between stages? Looks like its around 3 seconds still, huh? So Ill figure that about 6 "attacks" is equivalent to 3 seconds.
That means that VR has a DPS of:
VR against light armored:
Stage 1: 4 (no upgrades)/ 16 (+3 upgrades)
Stage 2: 8 (no upgrades)/ 20 (+3 upgrades)
Stage 3: 16 (no upgrades)/ 40 (+3 upgrades)
VR against armored:
Stage 1: 12 (no upgrades)/ 24 (+3 upgrades)
Stage 2: 24 (no upgrades)/ 36 (+3 upgrades)
Stage 3: 48 (no upgrades)/ 60 (+3 upgrades)
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Does this look right to people? Ill admit that math is not my forte.
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The site has lots of inconsistencies with the current beta.
Void rays gain +1 base damage for each upgrade and no extra bonus damage.
So without attack upgrades the damage is 2->4->8(stage 1->stage 2->Stage 3) against non-armored and 6->12->24 against armored.
With +1 it's 3->5->10 and 7->14->28 respectively.
With +2 it's 4->6->12 and 8->16->32
With +3 it's 5->7->14 and 9->18->36
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imo the biggest question is what the hell is this unit called now, is it void ray or warp ray or what
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On March 01 2010 11:13 CharlieMurphy wrote:
imo the biggest question is what the hell is this unit called now, is it void ray or warp ray or what
No, I'd say the thread's purpose serves as a good general question.
Even with access to beta, I am wondering how the data is conflicting... A definitive answer would let me figure out if I should incorporate them into more of my strats.
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Well it seems the answer is "yes" you can to an extent micro a void Ray. By powering it up pre battle or by targettig the bigger units first and usin it to kill the small ones at max power.
Whether my initial concepts still hold i'm unsure of. It looks like no.
Another question: what happens when a VR attacks an immortal with hardened shields?
You beta people better be testing this shit. 
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WCS
