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Aotearoa39261 Posts
1) Is it just me or are marauders exceptionally powerful ;; Not only do they rape armored units but they also have slow ... what the hell?
2) Is it just me or do Reapers generally suck except for peon harassment =/
3) Is it just me or are Carriers exceptionally strong, but also very fragile T_T
4) Why is it that the protoss air fleet sucks so hard?
5) Is it just me or do infestors suck exceptionally hard (I miss infested terran mass =[)!
6) Is it just me or is the mothership actually a necessity against late game terran ;; Actually it seems pretty imba atm lol
7) Why does the immortal build from the robo facil? It just feels soooo out of place there... i mean once you build the robo you kinda want to just make colossi sooo... I wish it was at the gateway and needed the twilight council to build.
8) Is it just me or is the Dark Shrine exceptionally pointless =/ I wish it had another use other than unlocking DT
9) The fact that it takes 3 zealots to wall a ramp really really pisses me off
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i agree with every single one besides 4)
i feel like void rays are pretty good and the graviton beam is always fun to use lol
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1) Terran seems to lack AA in SC2, so Mutas/Shees/etc ruin them in the late game. Otherwise, yes marauders are very good especially as anti-harassment in TvP and TvT.
2) That one is just you ;-). Reapers are very very good against any light armored unit (Zealots, lings, hydras even, etc) and their speed/maneuverability give you so much map control if you get enough early on. I've been using them for the peon harass in the beginning, transitioning to other stuff for the mid, and then getting half a control group or so for my push to mix in with everything else.
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Vatican City State1872 Posts
why is the immortal at the robo bay christ i haven't even made one yet because of the inconvenience, collosus ftw
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Canada8033 Posts
Just from watching streams:
1) Maurauders are pretty ridiculous right now. When both sides have small numbers, maurauders absolutely rape zealots and stalkers. On one hand, stalkers just evaporate. On the other hand, zealots are useless because of the slowing effect. Charge helps somewhat, but it's would probably be a better counter if the old upgrade for zealot legs existed. Sentries seem like the best option against them right now since they have pretty useful spells.
One thing people don't really talk about when discussing the slowing effect is how devastating it is against retreating forces. Many times, a protoss will engage the terran force, realize they're losing, and retreat to reduce losses. However, with the maurader in there, the rearmost units will be slowed, and thus, are easy to pick off, adding to the terran's advantage just that much more.
2) Reapers are kinda overpowered vs protoss in the early game. Cannons do nothing since a handful of them can apparently just take them out in one hit, and both zealots and stalkers seem too slow to do anything. For instance, today I saw a reaper force harass a protoss player for a good 5-7 minutes simply by attacking the mineral line, jumping down the cliff when defending units arrived, then going over to the ramp to attack buildings. In all, the terran took down about 2-3 cannons, a gateway, a pylon, the nexus, a lot of probes. The only thing keeping the reaper somewhat balanced is the fact that any time it gets into a serious engagement, it will get slaughtered horribly, no exceptions.
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Oh Plexa, raping me (ColdWave) with Carriers. Terran Ground to Air needs work to be effective.
3+6) Carriers are strong. I couldn't find a counter as a Terran, except to not let the Protoss get Carriers. Mothership is a Super-Strong Arbiter.
I could not find a Terran counter to Protoss Air yet. I guess I will have to play more games to find out.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Ohh so you were cold wave :3!
I found that carriers are really really really powerful. Interceptors at 5 x2 are so strong... Thors seem to annoy the hell out of them though. I don't really know if they are effective though.
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United States33502 Posts
I don't micro, so I haven't noticed that marauders are overpowered 
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reapers are just early game harass, and they are damned good vs protoss.
30-40 damage per hit to structure and high dps to light units. Pretty fucking rape, its like having to deal with mutas TvZ BW.
they are exceptional scouters.
late game back door reaper drops can raze a base.
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2) As others have mentioned, Reapers' mobility is beastly for threat and map control. Their anti-building damage is also far too high, it's nuts. They're probably the most money-efficient building-killer in the game, save perhaps banelings, which aren't as mobile or persistent.
7) They probably want to balance the alternatives between Twilight Council and Robotics Facility. Since Twilight Council allows for key upgrades and leads to Templar tech, Robotics Facility needs some nice perks to keep it from being forever secondary.
9) I know, right? And then there are maps with super-wide ramps, so Zealots have no hope of walling off quickly. Oh well, at least Protoss gets Force Field to supplement this area.
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1) yes i was raped by them when i had fully upgraded roaches in high numbers vs a farily low number just +2 maruders with some rines using stim t-t
2) yes esp against zerg speed lings come to quick i think toss they can handle it and terran should have scouted it way before
Also the maps aren't really cliff jump harassment central
3)well they always are
4)because of all the comments about "building carriers is a useful skill"
5) they blow ionno what their 2nd ability does but they suck at aa the slow is nice but come on what you gonna need to chase down that faster then a mutalisk
6)ionno never got late game tvp or pvt
7)
8) they don't like sair dt?
9) that pisses me off too most ramps are tiny also the part where each zealot can eat like 3+ lings each.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
10) IMMORTALS FCKING RAPE ROACHES
that is all...
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Roaches just have a really hard counter, what ever happened to soft counters it seems majority of things have hard counters to them only.
It's a shame because i find the burrow and harass to be quite entertaining.
Like the infesters everything is a hard counter to them :D
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I don't have beta, but I've been watching the streams a ton. I don't like reapers because I don't like the idea of being able to bypass ramps before tier 2.
3 zealots to block a ramp is crap. It should take 2 zealots to block a normal ramp. No more, no less (even if you do get it perfectly in the middle).
The fact that roaches are a hard counter to both the other zerg tier 1 units kind of sucks. I think it will eventually mean mirror builds in every high level ZvZ until tier 2.
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As i understand it you should be using vikings as AA as terran, they are terrans main anti-air anti-armour. And thors should be used against mutas/phoenix becuase thors do extra dmg to light air and those are the only 2 main light air units. This is purely in terms of armour types I've read up about, i'm not in the beta atm so i may be talking out of my ass.
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Soooo what, you need more robos, not just 1? How expensive are robo facility and bay?
Write something about Void Rays in mid/late game please.
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I have been doing some ai games to try and get a handle on infestor. But I just can't make it do anything. It seems like the fungal infestation should be good, perhaps if you paired a couple infestors with zergling/ultra, that would work out extremely well. It is like a very weak plague and it takes at least 2 casts to kill an scv, but it doesn't stack so you have to wait out the first cast. I've thought about trying to nydus in units into a mineral line, casting some infestation to lock the scvs into the mineral line until they can be dispatched, but it is difficult.
As for neural parasite, it says it only affects biological, so it shouldn't work on collosus or carriers or anything else worth using it on, right? The AI is so braindead it can't get to tier 3, and I certainly am not going to try to use them in a ranked game.
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i've found that infestors are really good for defense, or busting defense but not so much engaging a fight
think defensive defilers or if you're already pushing into someones choke
anything with a choke point really, they're pretty limited in that respect
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On February 19 2010 23:31 onmach wrote:
As for neural parasite, it says it only affects biological, so it shouldn't work on collosus or carriers or anything else worth using it on, right? The AI is so braindead it can't get to tier 3, and I certainly am not going to try to use them in a ranked game.
In the battle reports it used to work on everything. Any chance you can try an AI game and Neural parasite everything you can get your hands on to see what works and what doesn't? If it doesn't work on Colossus, it seriously diminishes in value...
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On February 19 2010 22:50 UdderChaos wrote:
As i understand it you should be using vikings as AA as terran, they are terrans main anti-air anti-armour. And thors should be used against mutas/phoenix becuase thors do extra dmg to light air and those are the only 2 main light air units. This is purely in terms of armour types I've read up about, i'm not in the beta atm so i may be talking out of my ass.
The problem with Terran Vikings that I found were that it's way too expensive to the any sort of counter to any Void Ray/Carrier tech. 100 gas for 1 Viking is not cost efficient, especially since you have to mass them in order to be effective. Vikings in air mode are basically wraiths with no cloak, and not a lot of hit points and armor (125 and 1), which can be brought down by stalkers or even the Carriers themselves, now dealing 5x2 damage.
Relating to the Situation in SC1: Going Mass Wraiths without Cloak vs Carriers. Not a good sight.
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On February 19 2010 23:52 Phelix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2010 22:50 UdderChaos wrote:
As i understand it you should be using vikings as AA as terran, they are terrans main anti-air anti-armour. And thors should be used against mutas/phoenix becuase thors do extra dmg to light air and those are the only 2 main light air units. This is purely in terms of armour types I've read up about, i'm not in the beta atm so i may be talking out of my ass. The problem with Terran Vikings that I found were that it's way too expensive to the any sort of counter to any Void Ray/Carrier tech. 100 gas for 1 Viking is not cost efficient, especially since you have to mass them in order to be effective. Vikings in air mode are basically wraiths with no cloak, and not a lot of hit points and armor (125 and 1), which can be brought down by stalkers or even the Carriers themselves, now dealing 5x2 damage. Relating to the Situation in SC1: Going Mass Wraiths without Cloak vs Carriers. Not a good sight.
Hmm comparing to sc1 doesn't exactly translate, but if you want to: Carriers have less health in sc2(250 instead of 300), Viking has more hp than the wraith (125 instead of 120), longer range and does more dmg (6x2 +11 vs armour = 23 instead of 20, also can add an extra 4 dmg with jotun boosters [2 to each missle]), also not accounting for the speed/cd of the animation comapred with wraith, and lastly viking costs 25 less minerals. That aside, in sc2 i think BC's are more viable right? so surely you can throrw in some of those and marines + thor air can assist you too.
But most importantly if we are talking late game, what people seem to be missing the most is that in sc2 the new iradiate, hunter seeker missle, can be used agianst mecanical units too, and carriers being slow are going to have a hard time avoiding it, and it does splash damage, doing 150 dmg to a unit with only 250 health.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
11) It feels that Terran >>> Zerg at the moment =/
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Hydras seem pretty good Plexa, but I think you need to be on more bases than the Terran
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I've played like 35 games but still haven't tried out ghosts and nukes! Anyone found them to be useful yet?
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Nukes are surprisingly cheap, and don't need to consume your command center anymore! I haven't gotten off any awesome nukes, but the ghost sight range is enough that you can usually shoot them over cliffs and tag parts of the enemy base. Also, since ghosts have 100 hp, keeping a medivac nearby will let them tank a zealot or two until the nuke comes down, lol.
I love the fluff and feel of terran, but I dunno if I like their units in this game T_T;
I'm also torn on roaches vs hydras. Roaches cost significantly less, and tier 1, do more damage, have more HP/armor, and seem to move slightly faster. It seems that roaches are better than hydras in every way except AA. Has anyone found this not to be the case? o.O;
Are Battlecruisers useful? They do loads of damage with their new attack, (which I like), but air-to-air they are pretty helpless it feels.
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Marauders are hard to fight against in PvT but I saw EG.louder last night raping early Marauder builds with the Sentry units. A mix of Zealot/Stalker/Sentry and some good micro with the Sentry spells was working quite well.
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I think Hydras attack faster and have longer range. But Roaches are certainly good... A must have vs. anyone who goes light units.
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I haven't really played Zerg except one ZvZ (which I exclusively used lings and muta) but I'm curious about roaches and hydralisks.
What's the difference between them?
Why would you want two units that really do the same thing?
Roaches seem to be really easy to get early on and are pretty strong vs. toss. I'm curious whats the best counter early game (or better yet what are some toss users build orders vs. Zerg, specifically vs. the threat of all-in ling or a roach mass.)
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Zurich15357 Posts
Difference is Hydra rapes everything while I find roaches less and less effective except for ZvZ where they seem to be the only viable unit. Don't build them and you die to them :-(]
Played 20 games on Platinum and I can't say T >> Z. Actually I feel much more comfortable against T, P just keep surprising me with new weird counters and timings.
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On February 20 2010 04:02 Inschato wrote:
Roaches don't hit air.
I really wish they did because then i can go roach hydra
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WHY can't i see game stats after i watch a replay like i was taken to in SC and WC3  and this time it's actually useful to see BO timings yet you can't see it if it's a replay.
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United States4991 Posts
On February 20 2010 00:24 Plexa wrote:
11) It feels that Terran >>> Zerg at the moment =/
WHAT? lol.
I completely disagree with this.
Ling/Baneling is an extremely strong counter to any infantry-based foolery early on and lets the Z get off to a comfortable lead ;O
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Frankly i think it's the other way around. but not by that much
To me it feels like toss >>>>>>> zerg as toss just seems to eat up zerg units collosis and stalkers is hard for me to get around can never get enough mutalisk or ultralisk and crap to stop it.
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United States4991 Posts
On February 20 2010 10:12 Virtue wrote:
Frankly i think it's the other way around. but not by that much
To me it feels like toss >>>>>>> zerg as toss just seems to eat up zerg units collosis and stalkers is hard for me to get around can never get enough mutalisk or ultralisk and crap to stop it.
Just mass Mutalisk, seriously.
Stalkers are not too effective vs Mutalisks, Colossuses cannot even hit them, and Colossuses die quite quickly to Mutas.
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I don't know if anyone else has noticed but hive tech roaches, when burrowed have retarded regeneration. If zerg actually had a seige unit like lurkers, I would have probably tried to use burrowed roaches to soak up damage from units I was fighting. If they don't have detection then the lurkers would drive them back, but if they did, they would be firing at super regenerating roaches instead of the real damage dealers behind them.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
12) Why can't a cast a spell ON a unit like I could in SC1?
13) Why is it that when I order my units to TARGET FIRE something, sometimes they dont, and instead attack move into them.
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Braavos36388 Posts
On February 20 2010 13:02 Plexa wrote:
13) Why is it that when I order my units to TARGET FIRE something, they dont, and instead attack move into them.
are you right clicking or attack+clicking? is there a difference? i havent had any problems focus firing stuff
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I've also had no problems with FF, although from time to time i mess up and hold shift too early and they don't do jack, yes i use shift to ff so i can macro while their units die!
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On February 20 2010 13:11 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2010 13:02 Plexa wrote:
13) Why is it that when I order my units to TARGET FIRE something, they dont, and instead attack move into them. are you right clicking or attack+clicking? is there a difference? i havent had any problems focus firing stuff
Right clicking
I had issues today against pachi when trying to target fire his spine crawler... my zealots attacked lings instead ;;
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2) Is it just me or do Reapers generally suck except for peon harassment =/
They have pretty massive building damage. Throw a few at an unguarded depot and you can take it out and jet before the army arrives.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
14) I don't like that trying to manually split your workers more often than not will actually slow you down =[ however, if you split the left most or right most work to the end mineral it does speed it up so that you can cue your 2nd worker before the first finishes.
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anyone else notice that if you're holding down ctrl when you give a command the unit automatically disregards any orders and goes to attack any enemy thing near it?
whenever im trying to retreat while adding reinforcements to the hotkey my units end up turning around and attacking.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On February 20 2010 15:39 IdrA wrote:
anyone else notice that if you're holding down ctrl when you give a command the unit automatically disregards any orders and goes to attack any enemy thing near it?
whenever im trying to retreat while adding reinforcements to the hotkey my units end up turning around and attacking. ahhhhhhhhhh
this must be why my focus fire failed....
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I'll add my thoughts: Stalker looks underwhelming so far. Like, most old units got a boost in SC2... but goon was replaced with this? I feel they wanted to make such a versatile unit that they ended up with a unit that almost sucks at everything. I'll take Sentry over it any day of the week.
Also Medivac looks retarded good on paper: 100 gas 100 minerals dropship with high rate heal that only requires Starport. And it's not like it will die to a few zerglings if your army gets whiped: its just flies back to the base. Holy cow.
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isnt the heal rate really low compared to medics? think they were 10hp/mana and medivacs 3hp/mana
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Zurich15357 Posts
On February 20 2010 15:40 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2010 15:39 IdrA wrote:
anyone else notice that if you're holding down ctrl when you give a command the unit automatically disregards any orders and goes to attack any enemy thing near it?
whenever im trying to retreat while adding reinforcements to the hotkey my units end up turning around and attacking. ahhhhhhhhhh this must be why my focus fire failed....
No, focus fire is still retarded as hell. I simply can't believe they haven't fixed this yet. If you target something with a melee unit and your units don't have an immediate path to auto surround the target they will instead a-move to other targets. It's incredibly frustrating and would be soooo easy to fix: Auto-spread and surround when a-moved on the ground, focus on one unit when it is specifiaclly targeted.
Refer to my article from June 2009 where I desrcibe this behavior:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=96528
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Melbourne5338 Posts
On February 20 2010 18:13 Salteador Neo wrote:
I'll add my thoughts: Stalker looks underwhelming so far. Like, most old units got a boost in SC2... but goon was replaced with this? I feel they wanted to make such a versatile unit that they ended up with a unit that almost sucks at everything. I'll take Sentry over it any day of the week.
Also Medivac looks retarded good on paper: 100 gas 100 minerals dropship with high rate heal that only requires Starport. And it's not like it will die to a few zerglings if your army gets whiped: its just flies back to the base. Holy cow.
Medivacs don't have too much hp and are easy to target with mass hydras tho.
Heal rate didn't seem anything significant.
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On February 20 2010 19:19 IdrA wrote:
isnt the heal rate really low compared to medics? think they were 10hp/mana and medivacs 3hp/mana
no medics did 2HP/1 energy
the progamer lol
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On February 20 2010 19:19 IdrA wrote:
isnt the heal rate really low compared to medics? think they were 10hp/mana and medivacs 3hp/mana
Oh maybe they changed that after some of the BRs.
I think i saw one ghost with a medivac tanking 2 zealots for a good time there. Havent seen much medivac action in the streams yet.
PD: Or maybe not xD
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On February 20 2010 19:44 freelander wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2010 19:19 IdrA wrote:
isnt the heal rate really low compared to medics? think they were 10hp/mana and medivacs 3hp/mana no medics did 2HP/1 energy the progamer lol
yea he actually plays the game and doesnt study unit hit point theory which is a waste of time.. Im B- and I couldnt tell you how much damage any untit does. On a lighter note, does anyone use the mouse delay option (the one that makes it smoother apparently)??
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I'm finding the skill level to be a lot less now than it was the first day. I started out 8-2 in platinum division 7, but by the end of the day I was 12-9. Now I'm 24-13! I thought I was going to get bumped down a division the way it was going. As it stands, a few more wins and I will be in the top 8!
I guess more "WoW noobs" have been DLing the game to try it out or something. 
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On February 20 2010 19:26 pachi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2010 18:13 Salteador Neo wrote:
I'll add my thoughts: Stalker looks underwhelming so far. Like, most old units got a boost in SC2... but goon was replaced with this? I feel they wanted to make such a versatile unit that they ended up with a unit that almost sucks at everything. I'll take Sentry over it any day of the week.
Also Medivac looks retarded good on paper: 100 gas 100 minerals dropship with high rate heal that only requires Starport. And it's not like it will die to a few zerglings if your army gets whiped: its just flies back to the base. Holy cow. Medivacs don't have too much hp and are easy to target with mass hydras tho. Heal rate didn't seem anything significant.
Isn't heal ranged?
Anyways, have anyone tried load unload micro with any bio units (in red maybe)?
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On February 19 2010 15:38 Plexa wrote:
7) Why does the immortal build from the robo facil? It just feels soooo out of place there... i mean once you build the robo you kinda want to just make colossi sooo... I wish it was at the gateway and needed the twilight council to build.
It sounds like a GOOD thing to me that you have to choose between 2 combat units in robo too.
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On February 19 2010 15:38 Plexa wrote:
7) Why does the immortal build from the robo facil? It just feels soooo out of place there... i mean once you build the robo you kinda want to just make colossi sooo... I wish it was at the gateway and needed the twilight council to build.
On top of what others have said, I believe part of why immortal is at robo is so you can't warp gate them into psi fields. Immortals are fairly slow in general, so warp gating one would be pretty... sweet? ;D
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On February 20 2010 21:15 JohannesH wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2010 15:38 Plexa wrote:
7) Why does the immortal build from the robo facil? It just feels soooo out of place there... i mean once you build the robo you kinda want to just make colossi sooo... I wish it was at the gateway and needed the twilight council to build. It sounds like a GOOD thing to me that you have to choose between 2 combat units in robo too.
Why is that a good thing? There is no choice in the matter... If you are vs Zerg, if they are making roaches make immortals if they are hydra make colossi... eventually you will just make colossi anyway =/. Also you want the robo to make obs eventually.. there just too much stuff coming out of the robo.. many times I feel like I want to make two lol
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
15) I changed my mind, reapers are amazing... they're too fast and i barely have time to react to them jumping into my base, and by the time i do see them my units are too slow to get in and defend.... T_T
16) Night time is annoying, makes looking at everything so much harder ie bad for my eyesight. Cute effect, but not good for competitive play
17) Roach burrow is fun :3 can be really really annoying to deal with
18) Charge is ridiculously good against terran ... really just wow ;o
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On February 20 2010 19:23 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2010 15:40 Plexa wrote:On February 20 2010 15:39 IdrA wrote:
anyone else notice that if you're holding down ctrl when you give a command the unit automatically disregards any orders and goes to attack any enemy thing near it?
whenever im trying to retreat while adding reinforcements to the hotkey my units end up turning around and attacking. ahhhhhhhhhh this must be why my focus fire failed.... No, focus fire is still retarded as hell. I simply can't believe they haven't fixed this yet. If you target something with a melee unit and your units don't have an immediate path to auto surround the target they will instead a-move to other targets. It's incredibly frustrating and would be soooo easy to fix: Auto-spread and surround when a-moved on the ground, focus on one unit when it is specifiaclly targeted. Refer to my article from June 2009 where I desrcibe this behavior: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=96528
Hope you're sending feedback..
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what the hell with the terran music? this cant be the real one......
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On February 21 2010 01:15 Plexa wrote:
15) I changed my mind, reapers are amazing... they're too fast and i barely have time to react to them jumping into my base, and by the time i do see them my units are too slow to get in and defend.... T_T
I just switched from terran to zerg and am feeling the pain from reapers in a couple of games. On some maps the mineral patches are totally open to them and about 5 of them can take out my entire mineral line in seconds. Not exactly sure how to deal with it.
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On February 19 2010 15:38 Plexa wrote:
1) Is it just me or are marauders exceptionally powerful ;; Not only do they rape armored units but they also have slow ... what the hell?
They seem pretty strong, but i'm not really sure yet.
2) Is it just me or do Reapers generally suck except for peon harassment =/
Reapers are awesome for TvZ, Marine + Reapers + Medivacs absolutely demolish hydras. And the harassment from reapers in the start can end a game right there - their building attack is ridicolously op atm.
3) Is it just me or are Carriers exceptionally strong, but also very fragile T_T
Agreed.
4) Why is it that the protoss air fleet sucks so hard?
Phoenix are worthless pieces of shit.
5) Is it just me or do infestors suck exceptionally hard (I miss infested terran mass =[)!
They're decent vs casters, that's about it i guess..
6) Is it just me or is the mothership actually a necessity against late game terran ;; Actually it seems pretty imba atm lol
Mothership seems really strong, but then again, it's a very expensive and slow unit :o
7) Why does the immortal build from the robo facil? It just feels soooo out of place there... i mean once you build the robo you kinda want to just make colossi sooo... I wish it was at the gateway and needed the twilight council to build.
I agree, if you need immortals it's important to switch to, and if you want to switch back, you're fucked because you have too many robo facilities.
8) Is it just me or is the Dark Shrine exceptionally pointless =/ I wish it had another use other than unlocking DT
Some upgrade WOULD be nice, or just anything - tbh DT's aren't that strong nowadays that they need their own building imo.
9) The fact that it takes 3 zealots to wall a ramp really really pisses me off
This is map dependant, but usually you don't see early pressure so it doesn't matter..
Getting zerglings in your base isn't bad because workers are so strong now!
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EPT
