[M] (4) Nautilus

On March 29 2021 09:03 game0fdr0nes wrote:
How do you get this map on NA?

On May 02 2021 03:19 ATTx wrote:
1.1 version update.

On May 19 2021 23:22 sTYleZerG-eX wrote:
Are they still using 4p maps on sc2?

On May 20 2021 11:59 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:


Very rarely, this is the first 4p in a while. The rest feel mainly like rehashed maps of the same safe ideas.

On May 22 2021 10:45 sTYleZerG-eX wrote:
I mainly do BW maps, but, I find it ridiculous that they stopped 4p maps and 3p maps for sc2....

On May 22 2021 11:25 ZigguratOfUr wrote:


12 worker start makes 4p maps so much worse. It makes scouting the wrong way so much more punishing.

On June 01 2021 13:38 sTYleZerG-eX wrote:



Why mot just double worker scout?
The intel > extra minerals

On June 01 2021 14:07 ZigguratOfUr wrote:


Double scouting is hugely damaging to your economy given that sc2's 12 worker economy snowballs faster. So no, the intel is not worth it. If the opponent is doing something normal you're quite far behind. If you get intel that the opponent is cheesing the fact that you double scouted seriously harms your ability to hold the cheese.

On June 02 2021 07:53 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:


I'm a bit confused, given you have more workers at the beginning, doesn't it mean that sending 1 more worker hurts less? In WoL and HotS with 4p maps, it was still a thing to double worker scout. Surely sending 2 workers out when you only had ~15 at the time, is more harmful compared to 2 when you have maybe ~20 now when you want to scout.

While I can see how the increased econ start does make rushes/cheeses more important to scout very early on, since you have less time to prepare for them, I think the variety that 3p and 4p maps give is very beneficial to the game and spectating experience, even if progamers personally don't feel comfortable playing on them.

And I think that with good map design, and use of new features like accel/de-accel zones to have greater control over how fast your scouts/rushes are, it's possible to mitigate the strength of early rushes while still reaping the benefits of having a 3-4p map (which allow for a more spread out, longer macro game, which are much more rare to see in LotV lately than peak WoL with maps like Tal'Darim and Whirlwind as ironic as that is).

For players who are much more skilled and want to avoid coinflippy games on 3-4p maps, I don't see the issue with them picking safe builds, even if it means it is less greedy and the lesser opponent might get away with a really greedy build. Or outright banning it for their match if it is Bo3 or Bo5. With good map design and large enough maps, the strength of early and mid game death pushes can be kept weaker, and help the game draw out longer with more chances for the player to comeback or catch up once they survive past midgame.

I think 3p-4p maps still have potential and I thinks Nautilus is proving to be a very good map so far, so I'm excited to see more. I guess I'm lucky, I'm glad ESL is exploring 3p-4p more with TLMC15. I didn't know ATTx was making maps for GSL either, good job and thanks for your effort ATTx!!

(Another reason I like 3p-4p maps, other than them tending to be overall bigger, is because the other mains end up being potential expo locations with small ramps and cliffs protecting them, something that is very common in BW but some reason basically nonexistant in SC2 maps even though static defense and even positional units like Lurkers are already weaker. I think having far off expos which normally are harder to reinforce, have things like small chokes to help compensate, would be interesting as it gives more choices for expos and makes the map more dynamic. The only map of recent I can think of that had interesting expo options and many expo paths, and far away expos with relatively small chokes, was Golden Wall. Obviously it's very hard to make as unique and solid of a map as that though.)

So far 2000 Atmosphere is proving to be a great map that provides lots of spread out macro games that don't end in just 1 push in early-mid game, I'm fine if there are more 2p maps like that, and maybe only 1 3-4p per season.