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Hello folks!
Lately, I have been working on SCynergie, a SC2 mod/expansion which applies the SC1 principles to the SC2 tools in the SC2 environment. I changed the current elements from WoL/HotS and added some SC1 material + LotV touches with a few ideas of my own. I removed the least possible SC2 elements and tried to recombine/adapt what already existed at best. I took the current HotS version as the starting point (for material, not gameplay). LotV beta changes are all considered null and void.
Basically, SCynergie can be considered as “LotV as I would build it”. The philosophy of the mod is pretty much the exact opposite of SC2's one. Unlike SC2 and particularly the LotV beta, SCynergie's turret does track its SC1 target.
I kept the vast majority of SC2 concepts/novelties, but many of them were modified in one way or another. Sometimes a brushstroke was enough, sometimes the burin was necessary; sometimes the hammer fell, sometimes the axe had to sing. Out of the main SC2 novelties, I binned the following:
+ Show Spoiler [Cut Features] +- The current SC2 economy
- Planetary Fortress
- Sensor Tower
- Hellbats (replaced)
- Thor (replaced)
- Colossus (replaced)
- Immortal
- MSC (disassembled)
- Mothership (disassembled)
- Swarm hosts
Many other elements were reworked as well (notably the Sentry and Warpgate). Pretty much all units underwent changes, from mere tweaks to deeper changes in roles or “volume” (e. g. a 2 supply unit remade on a 1 supply basis). The SC2 damage system, the interface and the dreadful pathing were conserved; I'll work around it. I apply my own principles below to the challenge!
SCynergie's political program
+ Show Spoiler [In bullet points] +SCynergie is built for everyone, low level players (99.9% of the population) and the rest. The main goals are: - Deconstructing the extreme relations from SC2. Incremental gameplay instead of all-or-nothing. More control over the course of the game, less volatility. SCynergie will correct SC2's excesses to reinject sense and strategy in the game.
- Readjusting the different temporalities within the game (slower where it's needed, more intense in some domains). Newbies/low level players in particular should be able to play at their rhythm without being checkmate in 6 minutes to the SC2 economy or losing abruptly after a 2.643 seconds fight. In SCynergie you have time to play.
- Slowing down development.
- Toning down the concentration of firepower.
- Recreating battles instead of semi-automated simulations.
- Adjusting the completely off effort/effect ratios. With great power must come great effort.
- No more spoonfeeding, no more “Starcraft for dummies,” no more entitlement. Things have to be earned (expands, attacks, defence, etc.). SCynergie is built against automation, ideal behaviour (“completeness”) and overall instantaneity/laziness. The game gives you the tools, you do the job.
- Restoring the notions of investment and tradeoff.
- Rebuilding the early game.
- Spring is coming in SCynergie, and the tech tree has blossomed anew.
- Putting the emphasis back on terrain. + Show Spoiler [For map makers] +
SCynergie should be flexible enough for greater map diversity and thus should avoid the “generic ladder clone” syndrome from mainstream SC2. As such, there should be numerous opportunities for map makers to (re)use their creations. The mod should need several maps, for team games and 1v1.
- Movement-based, simple micro. Using the terrain as the arena, not abilities. The main model = “mover & shooter”.
+ Show Spoiler [In a picture] +Loose design = find a way through constraints, solve the game yourself. Game of cubes = a decidated “ready-to-play” tool for every situation (the “completeness mindset”). Mondragon's trunk = http://i51.tinypic.com/2dglufr.jpgSee Razzia des Blizzsters for detailed explanations.
You get the idea. Overall, SCynergie should feel, hmm… “épuré” as we say in French. You know, when you remove the fluff to keep the essential. Refined or something. The opposite of “obfuscate,” as cave trolls would say. Clarity is the key.
SCynergie will feel like Starcraft. Not Warcraft, not DotA, not a RTT, not a confusing mix between genres. Just Starcraft.
SCynergie needs YOU!
So far so good. Now comes the awkward part. I lack the technical skills to create SCynergie. As an amateur, I made some SC1 maps one century ago (oh, the triggers, the triggers), so I'm not a complete newbie when it comes to map making; but in SC2 I have no practical experience whatsoever.
There are more than ~700 changes to implement. From what I counted, even a complete newbie SC2 editor like me can apply ~85-90% of them. This leaves us with ~90 changes which I can't do myself as of now. Most of them are trivial (and probably quick) for whoever is experienced in melee map making. But they're annoying/complex for a newbie like me, or I'm unsure about the exact manipulations needed.
Long story short, it would be a blessing if someone could make those changes in the editor for me. It would simply buy me weeks if I didn't have to read lots of tutorials/ask dozens of questions to competent people, try, fail, experiment, fail better and finally succeed late. It would also allow me to focus on all other aspects of the project in the meantime—and most importantly, the alpha tests could begin as soon as possible.
So, here are my two requests:
- On the short-term: are there some good samaritans out there willing to help me and perform the magic I cannot do myself? (= Building/contributing to the first skeleton of the mod with the ~90 changes discussed above; after that, I can complete the draft.)
- On the long-term, SCynergie will need some editors as well for finetuning.
Are there volunteers interested in this?
Of course, I have the details/specifics of those changes ready.
As closing words, many thanks to decemberscalm for answering my initial questions regarding Galaxy. 
Oh, and naturally: any post with the “BW 2.0” or “nostalgia” usual blabla will be ignored.
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I'm willing to get behind any project that ends up moving SC2 in the right direction that the community rallies behind. The inability of Blizzard to manage the game is apparent, but the community has to rally behind one, we can't have 20 different projects.
And whatever said project does, it shouldn't try to make SC2 into BW. We already have Starbow and BW, and we can do better. It isn't that I disagree with the application of SC1 principles (which I consider good RTS principles) to SC2, it is that BW was not perfect.
Finally, I really hate the Viper and everything it does to positional play, so I hope there are changes to it. Spells that completely negate things (like Vortex, FF, Blinding Cloud, Abduct, that Arbiter spells in BW ect) are bad.
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pm me your skype i can help out a bit
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On June 20 2015 02:13 BronzeKnee wrote:
Finally, I really hate the Viper and everything it does to positional play, so I hope there are changes to it. Spells that completely negate things (like Vortex, FF, Blinding Cloud, Abduct, that Arbiter spells in BW ect) are bad.
Abduct is gone and Blinding Cloud no longer nullifies Siege Tanks. Don't worry about spells, they are tamed.
For now, the main goal is to get a playable mod so that I can further showcase how SCynergie will be with concrete examples of games. It's too long/vague to properly explain otherwise. That way you can judge for yourself.
On June 20 2015 05:24 Espers wrote:
pm me your skype i can help out a bit
Thanks! Doing that.
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So that's what you were doing lately, I'm excited :DD
I volunteer to help you in any way you'll feel I can be helpful. As far as my skills with the editor goes I can make decent melee maps, I can edit some data, however I (almost) never touched anything related to the triggers.
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On June 20 2015 07:10 OtherWorld wrote:
So that's what you were doing lately, I'm excited :DD
I volunteer to help you in any way you'll feel I can be helpful. As far as my skills with the editor goes I can make decent melee maps, I can edit some data, however I (almost) never touched anything related to the triggers.
There's little trigger-related stuff so it's OK. My sentence was ambiguous, basically I meant that if you've already created a map with different buildings/units/upgrades/etc. most of the changes should be child's play. Anyway if you know how to add a building or move an upgrade you're already as sexy as Commander ByuL to me. 
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I consider myself an expert on triggers for Wc3 and SC2, so I can handle those.
If you need some fancy spell, upgrade, armor, attack, whatever that doesn't exist, let me know.
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out of curiosity, why ditch the PF instead of replacing it with a planetary that needs to be activated and has a cooldown (like in Starbow)?
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On June 20 2015 09:26 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2015 07:10 OtherWorld wrote:
So that's what you were doing lately, I'm excited :DD
I volunteer to help you in any way you'll feel I can be helpful. As far as my skills with the editor goes I can make decent melee maps, I can edit some data, however I (almost) never touched anything related to the triggers. There's little trigger-related stuff so it's OK. My sentence was ambiguous, basically I meant that if you've already created a map with different buildings/units/upgrades/etc. most of the changes should be child's play. Anyway if you know how to add a building or move an upgrade you're already as sexy as Commander ByuL to me.
I'm in then !
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On June 20 2015 17:02 Ej_ wrote:
out of curiosity, why ditch the PF instead of replacing it with a planetary that needs to be activated and has a cooldown (like in Starbow)?
There are various reasons. To be quick, in SCynergie the defender's advantage matters more, so you should be able to leave units behind for defence. OC vs PF is also a non-choice most of the time, and it would be even more so in SCynergie with the MULE nerf. I prefer Terrans to put some thought in unit movement and placement rather than building a dedicated defensive tool.
On June 20 2015 13:20 BronzeKnee wrote:
I consider myself an expert on triggers for Wc3 and SC2, so I can handle those.
If you need some fancy spell, upgrade, armor, attack, whatever that doesn't exist, let me know.
On June 20 2015 17:10 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2015 09:26 TheDwf wrote:On June 20 2015 07:10 OtherWorld wrote:
So that's what you were doing lately, I'm excited :DD
I volunteer to help you in any way you'll feel I can be helpful. As far as my skills with the editor goes I can make decent melee maps, I can edit some data, however I (almost) never touched anything related to the triggers. There's little trigger-related stuff so it's OK. My sentence was ambiguous, basically I meant that if you've already created a map with different buildings/units/upgrades/etc. most of the changes should be child's play. Anyway if you know how to add a building or move an upgrade you're already as sexy as Commander ByuL to me. I'm in then !
Thanks to you both!
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I am quite curious as what you have planned. Maybe you will succeed more in expressing your ideas to general public using this mod than youd did using words. Maybe the mod will show that you had a point all the time - or it will just flop, who knows?
However I don't think there is any chance this will become anything more than Starbow is - it may be somehow well known and have a dedicated playerbase, but that's about what can happen while Blizzard is still around with their version of LoTV.
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I am also interested in working together on a solution to the "SC2 balance problem".
I am the maker of SC2 CustomCraft, I have some experience with the SC2 editor and are capable of making basic and advanced changes to the games data and scripts.
I think its bad to compete against each other when making these balance mods, we all want the same goal, we should join hand in hand to make it happen.
If you are interested in a collaboration, I would gladly help.
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On June 29 2015 19:15 RoomOfMush wrote:
I am also interested in working together on a solution to the "SC2 balance problem".
I am the maker of SC2 CustomCraft, I have some experience with the SC2 editor and are capable of making basic and advanced changes to the games data and scripts.
I think its bad to compete against each other when making these balance mods, we all want the same goal, we should join hand in hand to make it happen.
If you are interested in a collaboration, I would gladly help.
I'll gladly take any help you're willing to offer, as Galaxy is simply maddening. I'll try to PM you today.
Be aware that SCynergie is more than a “balance mod” though, it changes a lot some dynamics. You had probably done that too in CustomCraft, but I just precise so there's no misunderstanding.
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Austria721 Posts
couldn't you just give us just a little taste of some of your ideas? what happens to mech? what happens to warp gate?
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On July 01 2015 22:51 Disarmed wrote:
couldn't you just give us just a little taste of some of your ideas? what happens to mech? what happens to warp gate?
You shall see soon enough. 
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Oh, I'll check it out at least
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Always cool to see projects like this with someone dedicated behind them!
I do wish it were more something that did minor tweaks instead of sweeping changes (one of the things that kept me from jumping the SB train). Either way wish you the best and look forward to checking it out!
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Well bravo sir, good on you for devoting your time and effort to your own personal vision. I would give this a shot at some point, keep us apprised of the progress.
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Austria721 Posts
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On July 30 2015 02:45 Disarmed wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2015 02:39 TheDwf wrote:On July 30 2015 02:04 Disarmed wrote: thedwf whats happening? an update would be highly appreciated It's finished, alpha tests are running. and how does it feel?
Great! It meets the objectives that I had set and I'm really happy with the result. Then again, I'm the creator.
when are you planning to introduce it to the rest of us?
Hmm... Hard to say since it doesn't solely depend on me. I'm trying to aim at the next week, but it's really uncertain so it's safer to just assume “soon™”
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Austria721 Posts
On July 30 2015 08:11 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2015 02:45 Disarmed wrote:On July 30 2015 02:39 TheDwf wrote:On July 30 2015 02:04 Disarmed wrote:thedwf whats happening? an update would be highly appreciated It's finished, alpha tests are running. and how does it feel? Great! It meets the objectives that I had set and I'm really happy with the result. Then again, I'm the creator. Hmm... Hard to say since it doesn't solely depend on me. I'm trying to aim at the next week, but it's really uncertain so it's safer to just assume “soon™”
sounds awesome <3
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Searching for some testers from tomorrow onwards. Any race, any level, but preferably paired with someone reasonably close in level.
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I could play, I'm diamond Zerg in HotS
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I can test, Master Protoss
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Thanks! Would you be available at the same time by any chance?
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My schedule is a bit erratic, but I am usually on in mornings of CEST and then afternoons, at around 3-5 and some occasional evenings.
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I'm around all the time, but I'll be gone for holidays during 16-22
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OK, coming channel SCynergie on Europe
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id be interested to try it out, im around masters level with each race
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Nice! Hmm, I'll be here around 20:30 CEST to see if any of you is there
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You people testing it while I'm on vacations, you're making me jealous (; I hope the games are good^^
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On August 15 2015 02:04 OtherWorld wrote:
You people testing it while I'm on vacations, you're making me jealous (; I hope the games are good^^
The first PvP game ever played on SCynergie was nothing short of legendary haha
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On August 15 2015 02:30 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2015 02:04 OtherWorld wrote:
You people testing it while I'm on vacations, you're making me jealous (; I hope the games are good^^ The first PvP game ever played on SCynergie was nothing short of legendary haha
So how actually was it? Can it be watched anywhere? Did you learn anything?
Also - a list of changes in this mod would help!
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yo I'm on EU and ready to play, any channel you want to meet in?
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On August 15 2015 03:18 BlackLilium wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2015 02:30 TheDwf wrote:On August 15 2015 02:04 OtherWorld wrote:
You people testing it while I'm on vacations, you're making me jealous (; I hope the games are good^^ The first PvP game ever played on SCynergie was nothing short of legendary haha So how actually was it? Can it be watched anywhere? Did you learn anything? Also - a list of changes in this mod would help!
Short and brutal
Not yet
Yes
Will be available when I release the mod
On August 15 2015 03:27 Ej_ wrote:
yo I'm on EU and ready to play, any channel you want to meet in?
Hi, I'm in channel SCynergie
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I will be here between 9 am CEST tomorrow, 15th of August until maybe like 12 am or so. Depending on how fast I get bored.
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On August 15 2015 05:46 Heartland wrote:
I will be here between 9 am CEST tomorrow, 15th of August until maybe like 12 am or so. Depending on how fast I get bored.
Don't think I'll be there at this time, but I'll be here in the afternoon.
Do you also have a friend around your level who could play against you? Santi is probably around your level, so maybe in the future you can play each other if you find some common slot. Saying this because testing a new game against a wall isn't necessarily a good experience^
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