|
First Contact v1.1Published on NA/EU/KR - Cross spawns only 146x146By IeZaeL
This map is part of a 5-maps pack I will release through December and January. Got the basic layouts done for all atm.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Jialdqj.png)
90° Overview+ Show Spoiler +Analyzer ( outdated )+ Show Spoiler +Aesthetics ( outdated )+ Show Spoiler +Based on this Brood war map ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wcOnNfP.gif)
Feel free to comment here to provide feedback or suggestions , i like them 
|
|
|
Perfect map to place a destructible plate on the golds
|
Like it! Sceptic about the cliff at each natural though. As a zerg the fear of tank and medivac harass is strong when i see something like this on 2nd or 3rds. I am no expert though, might be just fine. Also a little narrow for my taste.
|
Blink, always think about blink when designing layouts.
|
Looks excellent, i love the golds, the asymmetric spawns, and fully agree with algue about the plates, but... Blink stalkers :/
Shit sniped by Mosko >.<
|
|
|
Map's been uploaded to NA and EU as " Contact LE " , since for some unknown reasons you can't publish it with the word " First". Good job blizzard.
|
On December 15 2014 03:42 IeZaeL wrote:
since for some unknown reasons you can't publish it with the word " First". Good job blizzard.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1s7Wttx.png)
I don't really like doing things like this, but I was curious, so i went to check and see if that was the case. Seems like "first" is a viable map name. I'd imagine "First Contact" was taken since it's a pretty common term.
|
Now this I like. Sick job leZaeL.
But yeah, blink all day.
|
United States10143 Posts
im assuming cross spawns for this map right? side by side spawns both vertically or horizontally is advantaged to the player with the gold...
|
All spawns enabled Flash, horizontal will probably be extremely problematic if Iez decides to keep it.
|
yeah, what?? gold bases asymmetric...?
|
Yeah this really needs to be cross only. Not only are the golds asymmetric, but they have 3 entrances while the corresponding standard bases have only 2, so just replacing the gold bases with standard bases wouldn't work.
|
When I looked at this map I instantly felt a bit a of de ja vu . I don't recognize the name of the map at all or even the layout. I played a bit of broodwar and had a interest in obscure maps and asymmetrical maps which could be the link to the de ja vu. The map gives off a vibe of this is a broodwar map while other recreated maps like Match Point don't. But I feel like the instinctive feelings I had were shot down when I looked closer at the map and seen that this map has to be played on cross spawn and the gold bases have gases taking away from the mineral only feel that the broodwar map gave. SC2 has a really hard locked the map has to be 2 player map should have watch towers. The map is a step in the right direction. But making the map feel more I need to expand but if I expand here (the gold) I miss out on gas but expanding here (middle base) there is the risk of the distance being exploited. Lastly allowing all spawn (gold patching hugely required) will make the map far more interesting when it comes time for 4th bases and both players are spawned horizontally to each other forcing the player to either end the game on 3 bases or take a base that is farther away which is unseen in sc2 at the moment. The map should make the player think and have to make decisions based on the map along with the in game ones.
|
Other than the texturing/ aesthetics, which is of course one of the best out here, u have copied the map more or less. So I can't see any design readjustments for Sc2.
The obvious blink issue, the lack of forced-cross spawn and the possible siege postions u can get. I mean how asymetric should a map be? Where are we going? Maps with rotational symmetry having all spawns playable are not known to be fair, but giving one player gold minerals...
I like how some ppl here still do not criticize those things just bcuz they read "IeZaeL"... Again I love what u doing in general, but this is just bad designwise... U cannot break mapmaking rules that way, just becuz u know them well...
|
I'm saving ESPORTS right now :
+ Show Spoiler +Or at least try to givean idea to save the map from being buried under the complains about blink stalker : ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4wjc0RZ.jpg)
|
Thanks for the feedback , just wanted to point out that I read them all , even if I dont reply back. Going to change the map with the release of the entire 5-map pack.
|
I don't consider the map needing to be forced cross negative, Iez you could move the small level 1 path that's used for decoration near the gold bases to the same level the bases are on, remove the trees and add some LoS blockers, that way the player that decides to risk it and take the gold when players spawn vertically will first need to over-extend and secure the area where the small bridge starts so he can't get harassed as easily, this small over extension should be enough for players to scare away a big % of players, and only those that have strategies thought out for the map would take the base.
This still won't fully address the possible issues of giving a player a gold base tho, in TvZ a terran that's good and knows how to set up his army with widowmines would still have an advantage when parade pushing, but when/if the parade is stopped then Terran will become highly exposed to ling/bling harass, that's the match up that worries me the most.
Also currently the normal horizontal third is highly harassable, specially by terran bio, this when spawning on cross spawns could become problematic, but players still have the optional third so it shouldn't be too much of and issue (maaaaaaybe on ZvP with P taking a third).
Also the map will surely need reworks to avoid cannon rush, we all love the way your cliffs look (at least i do) but as they are now they are not well suited for competitive play.
http://imgur.com/a/psGYG
+ Show Spoiler +i gotta go now, so i couldn't finish trying all the possible spots.
I still love the map, love the asymmetry & love the flow.
|
Damn Uvantak thank you for the writeup , love it when people actually test the map ingame , especially since i never do it
So you are telling me to do some sort of "bridges" like Frost got ? Thats exactly what i was thinking. Take a look at Red Rock Ridge by lefix.
As of now I added some deadspaces to the main to reduce blink imbaness ... still gotta test it ingame tho.
|
obvisouly needs to be cross for symmetry reasons, but also to prevent sentry/immortal or basically any Protoss sentry based rush from being completely broken in PvZ horizontals.
Aside from that it is pretty gorgeous and could be quite interesting in cross and possibly verticals.
|
Yea i will definitely remove close - horizontal spawns. Not sure about vertical spawns though.
|
United States10143 Posts
On December 16 2014 05:06 IeZaeL wrote:
Yea i will definitely remove close - horizontal spawns. Not sure about vertical spawns though.
i dont see your reasoning for allowing vertical spawns. you have a closer 3rd base, while still closer to your enemy, is still a good base to take, especially if you can get map control. as terran who might mech and go tanks, an old SCBW style was to expand toward your opponent using tanks as a WWI-esque trench line and slowly push your way up.
the point is, even if it didnt impact balance, it should still be cross spawn only simply due to asymmetry. all maps follow this principle unless it is clear there is 0 impact on balance.
|
To clarify, I'm fine with asymmetry because it doesn't matter anyway unless mirror match (only 1/3 of the game), and usually not even then. At the same time it adds variety. I was specifically commenting on gold bases which is too much of an economic disparity that can be easily exploited. That said it has to be used properly and I haven't looked close enough nor play tested at all so I'll just leave it.
That that said said, I love the concept of the map but I think you need better [short-and-narrow] vs [long-and-open-and-circuitous] differentiability for the horizontal spawns, they're a little too close imo and even klontas mire offered a better chokepoint. But I think this can be something with tweaking.
|
v1.1 now only cross spawns are enabled. This effectively makes the map 2in1 , having 2 possible spawns which are a little bit different in gameplay. Still not completely satisfied.
+ Show Spoiler +
|
|
|
a couple criticisms:
-brood war maps (this one) didn't have "free space" at the limits.
-gold mines shouldn't be there as they benefit 2 of the locations over the others.
-the bot and top middle mines have a platform that can be used to defend/harass and wasn't put in the new map.
-the center mines are supposed to be gasless.
- it'd be cool to have a 1 gas per mine version (like in bw)
with those corrections it'd be a cool map i'd surely use.
|
Your whole post suggest that you want this map to be a copy of the bw one. It should be noted that this map aspires to be a sc2 map inspired by a bw map altered to work well on sc2, and not a carbon copy of a bw map that's meant to work with broodwar units and mechanics that don't exist in sc2.
If IeZael did the map the way you say it should be done then the map would be broken by sc2 standards, as i said many mechanics that existed in bw behave differently or simply don't exist on sc2.
|
On December 18 2014 07:53 Uvantak wrote:
Your whole post suggest that you want this map to be a copy of the bw one. It should be noted that this map aspires to be a sc2 map inspired by a bw map altered to work well on sc2, and not a carbon copy of a bw map that's meant to work with broodwar units and mechanics that don't exist in sc2.
You mean that single line?
On December 15 2014 01:38 IeZaeL wrote:
Based on this Brood war map
Mereel's maps were also based on BW maps, half the time they ended up nothing like the original.
I'm gonna leave that there because I deserve it, but feel free to ignore it anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BOtENaP.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XX10r1e.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KyyfhAt.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zPZaOXY.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FYNbpR3.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/blMT4GW.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0w3C0jH.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Mpa6zIu.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OtCwjrL.jpg)
