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[M] (4) Cactus Valley

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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Ferisii
Profile Joined February 2011
Denmark199 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-11 10:27:31
April 01 2014 18:01 GMT
#1

"Spiky Spines Everywhereeee"
Released on: Global - UNLOCKED

It's that time once again. Team Liquid Map Contest is happening and thus my mapping mood spirit fired up. I took upon myself a task to create something unique themed. (I hope it atleast is!) Taking some layout inspiration from my previous map, New Pompeii, which some may or may or not know is being used in Totalbiscuit's Shoutcraft Clan War. I decided to create a 4 player map whereby early game happens around clock wise, but turns completely when rocks are destroyed to the middle field. Can it work at all? maybe, maybe not, but I do like creating something not-so-standard!

Map Decription:
Map for up to 4 players.
At first, there's either two ways to reach your opponent, the short or the long one. Or either two long ones if it's crosspawn... Either way. Destroying the rocks will open up the middle area, giving access to gold bases and new routes to win over your opponent.

Update Log:
~1.1
Localization files fixed again again. Will it ever fix itselv? Find out in the next possible updates!
Added new screenshots to battle.net showcase.
Minor fixes.
~1.0
Localization files fixed. Again. Map info should no longer hold old information.
Reduced map file size by roughly 1 megabyte.
Re-did GameHeart logo locations.
Minor fixes.
~0.9
Removed silly leftover preview images. Map size should be way much smaller now.
Sorry 'bout that.
~0.8
Updated Battle.net screenshot showcase with recent changes.
Minor fixes. Yes, many minor fixes.
~0.7
Added 4x4 rocks ontop gold bases.
Minor fixes.
+ Show Spoiler [Older notes] +
~0.6
Fixed goldbase locations.
Minor fixes.
~0.5
Localization files fixed. Map info should no longer be COMPLETLY DEVOID OF ANY TEXT.
Changed overview screenshot to a angled one. Pretty!
Critters has arrived.
Minor fixes.
~0.4
Minor fixes.
~0.3
Added unbuildable rocks near buttom of main ramps.
Added Overview & Gameplay screenshots to battle.net showscase.
Minor fixes.
~0.2
Added GameHeart support.
Change of fog colour.
Minor Fixes.
~0.1
Map Release.


Screenshots
+ Show Spoiler [Screenshots & Overview] +

Overview:
[image loading] [image loading]
Top Leftside Bases
[image loading] [image loading]
[image loading] [image loading]
Details
[image loading] [image loading]
[image loading] [image loading]



Fun times ahead! ~
Author of Cactus Valley RE - My latest map: Para Bellum http://goo.gl/iV90wG
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-02 00:42:41
April 02 2014 00:40 GMT
#2
Looks really cool, very similar to New Pompeii, which is very good because that map is awesome. Also really cool theme, loving it.
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
April 02 2014 03:48 GMT
#3
Wow. Very interesting concept.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Arceus
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Vietnam8333 Posts
April 02 2014 08:14 GMT
#4
Wow some of the more creative 4p map in recent times. Hope you place high in the contest. GJ
Phaenoman
Profile Joined February 2013
568 Posts
April 02 2014 11:36 GMT
#5
Beautiful.
Random is hard work dude...
Tjej
Profile Joined January 2014
14 Posts
April 02 2014 12:18 GMT
#6
Cactus in the Valley?
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52798 Posts
April 02 2014 13:29 GMT
#7
For me, this is a pretty well-explored concept, but this is much better in its execution than the maps I have done.
ModeratorI am still alive, somehow
TL+ Member
MrSunny
Profile Joined September 2011
Australia73 Posts
April 02 2014 13:57 GMT
#8
Such an amazing map!
Samro225am
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany982 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-02 15:22:56
April 02 2014 15:22 GMT
#9
The map looks elegant and ist quite interesting visually, but i do not see at all why it is amazing.

First the layout is a usual 12base layout scaled up to the point to fit in 4 gold base with a rocked centre.The Concept was explored before as well, but i think this element is well chosen and fits the "12base layout" or central thirds (in between two mains ) respectively. Also it tackles some problems 12 base map layouts are known for, mainly thirds that are difficult to keep. I especially like the way you integrated the circular path into the two-ramp natural! So congratulations on being bold and brave and try a map with quite far away thirds!

Now some more cetailed critique:
- with the rocks you enlarge the distances and attack paths. once they are down an attacker can easily position himself between nat and third. I had a similar problem on tlmc1's burning altar btw, so this is not some hypocrit negativity, but i want to point out that once the centre is controlled, the third could well be gone. the watchtower makes this issue even worse, it gives away control!

- the golds provide some point of interest, but I don't see them being defended if taken at all. in a super late game scenario with 5vs5 bases i think it is more interesting to see the 12/6 taken by one side for the win.

in short: it looks good and creative and everything, but it is not something that unique and when you look at the hard facts of this map, it only has the rocks going for it in between centre and third and it does far too little in the department spatial awareness and control.

btw: did a 12base layout recently and I hope it will tacle all the problems I list here for your map ^^
Ferisii
Profile Joined February 2011
Denmark199 Posts
April 02 2014 19:18 GMT
#10
Thanks for all the comments & feedback! Much appreciated.
Updated map to v0.3 with the following changes:
*Added unbuildable rocks near buttom of main ramps.
*Added Overview & Gameplay screenshots to battle.net showscase.
*Minor fixes.

Pretty silly of me to forget the pylon wall in strat... damnit protoss. Anyho.

@Samro
I don't exactly see why a players third expansion would easily be gone, if the opponent would take control of the middle area. The opponent would still need to leave a good chunk of their force down the ramps to fully blockoff a passage to said third expansion(s). But perhaps a slight change to the ramps, by moving them a tiny more towards the middle area, could help defending players some more. Or perhaps a different idea is needed. Thoughts? Anyone?

It is true that, the gold bases are there to give a point of interest for players to break into the middle area. Nor had I thought or making it super easy to keep hold of them. Just wanted to give players a possible forward base that's fast mined out while also giving somewhat protection for their attack forces.
Also, I hadn't done a map with a gold base in a long time now. Seeing them getting slightly back into the game due to Habitation Station, I just had to try make something work.

About the Xel'naga Tower perhaps being too strong in the middle. I had some thoughts about placing one near each third expansion, barely catching sight of the gold vespene geysers, but gives full vision over the ramps leading down. But not exactly sure it would work well, if players would spawn next to eachother.
Author of Cactus Valley RE - My latest map: Para Bellum http://goo.gl/iV90wG
Ferisii
Profile Joined February 2011
Denmark199 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-05 15:04:17
April 04 2014 14:24 GMT
#11
Here's an upcoming update to my map I want to pass trough. But before doing so, I would love to hear feedback regarding it.
OLD <==========================> NEW 0.7?

[image loading] [image loading]

Now, the idea behind this change, is to give the defending player easier time keeping hold of their 3rd expansion area by making it much less easier for opponent to switch between the 2 middle ramps leading down to 3rd expansion.
This change should also makes it much more viable to get a gold base up and running, as attack routes needed to be kept watch on is reduced from 3 to 2 instead.

Thoughts? WTB
Author of Cactus Valley RE - My latest map: Para Bellum http://goo.gl/iV90wG
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
April 04 2014 17:26 GMT
#12
can't T just lift a CC and land it in the middle, protected by the rocks?
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
RFDaemoniac
Profile Joined September 2011
United States544 Posts
April 04 2014 19:18 GMT
#13
I like 0.5 better. I don't think bouncing back and forth is going to be too problematic, especially since they could let the opponent onto the low ground and then have even less travel distance. In 0.6 I think late game play through the middle is going to be less interesting and I don't think it's worth that.
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
April 05 2014 02:54 GMT
#14
On April 05 2014 02:26 Ej_ wrote:
can't T just lift a CC and land it in the middle, protected by the rocks?

Middle isn't protected by rocks. If you look closer, there are small "doors" near rocks
Ferisii
Profile Joined February 2011
Denmark199 Posts
April 05 2014 08:44 GMT
#15
On April 05 2014 11:54 Existor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2014 02:26 Ej_ wrote:
can't T just lift a CC and land it in the middle, protected by the rocks?

Middle isn't protected by rocks. If you look closer, there are small "doors" near rocks


Actully, the analyser is just a bit off. The big ramps are fully blocked.
If the gold bases turn out to be too good for early terran expanding, I can either block it off with a mere 400/1 rock block, or turn the base into a normal blue one. I'm more leaning towards the first solution as I really want these gold bases to work. :p
Author of Cactus Valley RE - My latest map: Para Bellum http://goo.gl/iV90wG
And G
Profile Joined May 2012
Germany491 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-05 12:57:47
April 05 2014 12:22 GMT
#16
I like 0.5 better and I don't see a problem with the gold bases; it's not like Terran could immediately fly their first CC there like on HS because there's no follow-up (you can't reasonably expand anywhere except another gold and you can't attack either) and there's no preventing an opponent from expanding all over the map when you're in the middle. Also, if any of the rocks are taken out all the gold bases become super super vulnerable.

I'm concerned about the nat2nat distance though; it looks really really close (like, about 30 seconds). Can you post an analyser picture with pathing?
not a community mapmaker
Ferisii
Profile Joined February 2011
Denmark199 Posts
April 05 2014 15:01 GMT
#17
Current rush distance between close nat@nat is currently 33 seconds. Not too much worried about it as you got a fairly decent ramp to defend on.
Author of Cactus Valley RE - My latest map: Para Bellum http://goo.gl/iV90wG
EthanS
Profile Joined February 2011
United States206 Posts
April 06 2014 10:17 GMT
#18
The gold center is an elevation above the surrounding terrain. That will give a big defenders advantage to whoever can get into it first. And that probably means terran: reapers scout the center, 3d CC with 5 scvs loaded up floats over before any rocks are taken down.
Ferisii
Profile Joined February 2011
Denmark199 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-06 21:03:10
April 06 2014 21:02 GMT
#19
Right, so, newest update 0.7. Added rocks ontop of the gold bases.
Did some testing with 400/1 blocking them, but felt they went down way too fast to make any difference at all, thus instead, there's now 4x4 rocks blocking the gold expansions.
Regarding the middle layout. Havn't fully decided which one would be the best, so, currently still using the old layout for now.

I really should update the video now... Maybe tomorrow. :b
Author of Cactus Valley RE - My latest map: Para Bellum http://goo.gl/iV90wG
And G
Profile Joined May 2012
Germany491 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-06 21:24:48
April 06 2014 21:23 GMT
#20
I don't understand why people are so scared of a Terran expanding to a gold base. Build a Warp Prism. Build Mutas. Build two Immortals and tear the rocks down in 30 seconds. It's not as if the middle was invulnerable or anything. Once any of the rocks are down, the "big defender's advantage" of the central area is exactly the same as that of a one-way vision blocker, and since the ramp where the rocks will first be taken down is most likely quite far away from the gold base taken by the Terran, I hardly see any defender's advantage at all.

I think if you preemptively put rocks there you just make the map less interesting to play on, and all because of some perceived phantom imbalance. I mean, imagine Habitation Station with rocks at the golds. That would just be boring, right?

If you want to change anything, I'd suggest moving the counterclockwise natural ramp a little closer to the base, what with the short nat2nat distance and the inherent advantage for the player spawning counterclockwise.
not a community mapmaker
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