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[M] (2) AEM Ion - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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Kiaph
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
112 Posts
February 12 2014 00:44 GMT
#21
10/10 for the map design, you put so much time into this map, and it very easy to see, and maybe even a future competition map,

I would not be suprised to see this in tournaments in the future, or on the ladder, there may be some slight modifications needed, related to balance, but no way to find out.. cause I am to busy looking at the map to actually go and play it
Zax19
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Czech Republic1136 Posts
February 12 2014 01:49 GMT
#22
So how about the changing the 3rd - rather than blocking the path just have mineral blocking rocks like on Testbug?
Really Blizz, really? - Darnell
Antares777
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1971 Posts
February 12 2014 01:59 GMT
#23
The main-natural design is one of the most creative I've seen in a while. In-base naturals are nothing new, but most of the time are designed in a straightforward way with each expansion having their own clear "area", while here both the main and natural are blended together into the same area.

Most maps with in-base expansions tend to lean towards macro games, since the natural is easy to expand to and defend. Here, that isn't the case. The mineral line is right on the edge of a direct path to your base. This makes it so that the opposing army doesn't have to split forces to harass your natural, they can straight up harass it with their main force.
On February 11 2014 23:58 TheFish7 wrote:
I like the natural a lot because you set up a situation where players need to move down their main ramp to defend it.

The nail has been hit on the head. This is an interesting feature. To add to its vulnerability, the main-nat ramp is 3x once the rocks go down. The natural is deceptively difficult to defend. It looks like an in-base expansion, but plays out like a regular natural expansion. So cool dude!

I honestly don't really know what to think of the rest of the layout. The expansions are ambiguous and spread out, yet there are many choke points as well. I can't really comment on much else.

Timetwister22
Profile Joined March 2011
United States538 Posts
February 12 2014 02:48 GMT
#24
As far as the third, I think it's fine as is for the time being until I get some games on it. The rocks between the nat low ground and the third will probably remain, as the current design of the natural relies on them. If the third becomes too hard for any race, I'll probably make choke size/distance adjustments.
Former ESV Mapmaker | @Timetwister22
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
February 12 2014 08:43 GMT
#25
This is painful to look at, ow. I keep trying. Like it's cool for sure, but just seems unplayable (aesthetically). But that's not the biggest problem for a map to have, just putting my vote in.

The forward nat choke is pretty rough for any tight build orders, being so far. But it will make for interesting games for sure. I really think you'd see people put their infrastructure on the lowground to make a 2nd wall/simcity in case the rocks are broken to help defend the nat cliff. It's funny to me that this map of all things could be the first successful map to promote building outside the main.

I agree with fish that the 3oclock should be more towards 2oclock. I understand the motivation to keep it far and I assumed this was the intention, but I think it's going to force a basetradey mapsplit, not the harass / poke / multiprong you're looking for. In fact, I think the best thing for this map would be embrace the awkwardness of that area and make them gold bases so they function more the way you want. Or overhaul that area (possibly removing a pathway and creating a cliff vulnerability instead).

The focus of the map will be the unique nat design, so I really don't think it's a huge problem overall. Would like to see this map get used! Below I try and explain why the 2/3oclock area is awkward / not contributing to the map the way I think it's intended to.
+ Show Spoiler [long] +

If a player takes it as a 4th, they need their army to defend it because it's an open-face base location, and the army will need to camp there without constant knowledge of opponent's movements, since the enemy reinforce with the rocks down is so short and the defender travel path from center of mass is long and narrow. In the situation both players expand this way, it creates a very unstable basetrade favored positioning. It's like if your 4th on Daybreak was the base outside their main by air.

If you want to avoid this, you break the rocks to take the righthand 4th, which leads much more naturally to a 5th base anyway (the 3oclock, maybe the center base in some cases). Now you have a much more stable situation where the better player can make better movements than their opponent without being forced into a trade scenario (due to travel distances). This also brings the middle into play nicely. However the problem reemerges at the 5th base, because it bring you so close again (to the opponent's 3rd) and a defensive stance from both players results in a trade scenario again.

These issues are especially bad for zerg because the map doesn't offer a viable secondary location to put an alternate base site, which can be very important in a tight game where they have to sacrifice one of the two recent expansions because they'd be gg to engaging a timing.

Pushing the 3oclock to 2oclock alleviates many of the problems due to short distance and preserves it main vulnerability as an open-facing base, and also maintains the superior defensive position of forward army placement without mandating it. Because of the clever design of the 3rd base's back entrance (which I love), it wouldn't even make it much worse when they belong to opposing players. Redesigning the pathways here could help it along even more.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
Timetwister22
Profile Joined March 2011
United States538 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-12 16:02:04
February 12 2014 15:57 GMT
#26
The 3 o'clock is the intended fourths for player A, while the 2 o'clock are intended fifths/sixths for player B. I want the players to progressively take control of the middle of the map, and eventually take the base there. By forcing armies that close to one another, you will not see base trades. The armies simply will be able to get I to position to defend one another too easily. Instead, you'll see pokes and harass, especially with the little path that goes through the central bases. The 2 and 3 o'clock are not intended to be taken by the same player.

However, I should add that when both players are on four bases, this is when bases trades are most likely to happen since this is when armies are furthest.

As for tthe aesthetics, let's just say it's super shinny in the pictures. After pictures were taken, I dropped the bloom, gamma, "glory settings", and saturation by just a bit to make it playable in game. Not to say it looks entirely different, just less strain on the eyes. Just had to make it look good for public view since I posted it on reddit.
Former ESV Mapmaker | @Timetwister22
Timetwister22
Profile Joined March 2011
United States538 Posts
February 15 2014 22:18 GMT
#27
Map has been updated to version 1.0. The update includes various bug fixes, and some minor aesthetic changes.
Former ESV Mapmaker | @Timetwister22
L3monsta
Profile Joined May 2012
New Zealand149 Posts
February 15 2014 23:23 GMT
#28
I really like it, but the textures look waay too busy in the corner bases
Timetwister22
Profile Joined March 2011
United States538 Posts
February 18 2014 00:40 GMT
#29
ESV Ion has been included in the map pool for Team Dignitas Reverse Race Tournament 3!
Former ESV Mapmaker | @Timetwister22
Timetwister22
Profile Joined March 2011
United States538 Posts
May 02 2014 00:03 GMT
#30
Update to V1.2

Changed large diagonal rocks to collapse rocks. This will have that third path initially open, so Zerg can more easily take a quick third. Yet, the path can still be closed to secure the low ground or cut of forces from third.
Former ESV Mapmaker | @Timetwister22
vult
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States9400 Posts
May 02 2014 02:34 GMT
#31
Pretty!

I like the inbase natural design, could make for some interesting plays!
I used to play random, but for you I play very specifically.
Zax19
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Czech Republic1136 Posts
May 06 2014 23:34 GMT
#32
Cool update, not as good as the Testbug style of mineral block but better than before
Really Blizz, really? - Darnell
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
May 07 2014 04:21 GMT
#33
Can you simplify textures a bit? Seems like same problem as on early versions of Yeonsu - nice map but textures are hard to fight on except if there is a creep everywhere
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