|
This mod is utterly fantastic. No, seriously, this mod makes Blizzard look AWFUL by being a testament to what SC2 should have been. It fixed everything. Well, almost everything. Hellbats are still a gimmick looking for a function, the Lurker is missing in action so Zerg positional play is dead in the water, and a few other things.
But OneGoal is fother mucking GLORIOUS.
As an idea for your consideration, though. I have been experimenting with a few ideas for the Viking in the editor. First of all, I suggest the Viking's damage point be reduced to zero so it fires immediately instead of staring at its target for 0.167 seconds (exactly) before beginning its firing sequence. It looks and feels snappier and changes nothing of importance. Most air units deserve the same improved handling- Blizzard just didn't bother to change this value from the editor default like they should have for flying units.
Secondly, you should disable "Wait Until Stopped" for Viking transformation, both ways. Disabling this flag under the ability means the Viking will transform immediately when given the command instead of pausing for a moment while it comes to a complete stop first. Again, it makes the Viking feel much snappier and less clunky.
It would also be very cool if the Viking were able to move while lifting and landing. However I just cannot get this to work right, but it clearly should be possible. This would open up a lot of micro potential for lift/land micromanagement for harassment and high-finesse combat, such as fleeing off the edge of a cliff to escape after harassing. If both morphs could be canceled, it would be possible to manually cliff-jump by morphing while moving and canceling. And it would also be possible to dodge in and out of range of anti-ground weapons by quickly lifting and canceling on the move.
I do know, and have implemented, that it is cool to give the Viking moving shot on the ground, which also creates a huge potential for skillful micro. You can also make it so the Viking can rotate to fire independent of its movement, and can limit how far it can turn, such as by limiting its firing arc to 90 degrees (so it can fire in a forward 180 degree arc) and cannot shoot and move directly backwards, but can chase and can strafe. I imagine retro thrusters under its feet and from the jets on its back while it does so would also be awesome.
I have also experimented with making the Viking a bit more complicated as a dogfighter. Namely, by giving the Viking two weapons in the air. I suggest you experiment with giving the fighter mode Viking a copy of its assault mode gatling cannon that it uses when flying against air units which it is allowed to use when moving, but with a limited firing arc (say, 35 degrees) forward. And give its lanzer torpedoes a minimum range equal to its gun's range, and allow its torpedoes to be fired while slowing (glide moving shot micro). The weapons' cooldowns should be linked, with the shorter-range gun having a higher rate of fire, and more DPS against Light units, but less DPS against Armored units (I am aware that the current OneGoal viking has +Light on its missiles; instead giving the Viking a normal damage gun and a +Armored bonus on its low rate-of-fire missiles works well). I suspect you will be quite pleased with the level of finesse you can display with souped-up Vikings.
|
I think it would be fun to get this going again. This is MNdakota by the way.
|
Oh boy, 2 months later and not even an announcement for when 2.1 is coming out.
Glad to see people are still interested/learned more about us during the Starbow hype on /r/StarCraft
@Twine
+ Show Spoiler +
Thank you for your input and many of those ideas are similar to the ones we have in place or tried in the past. I will try to go through and explain why we didn't implement some of them.
Every structure has a cost that is a multiple of 25, so we would choose 75. That said, turrets already hit pretty hard, the issue is more that Muta regen is really strong and Oracles were hitting too early AFAIK. With the lower damage on our Oracle and the Muta regen only applying while out of combat, turrets should be fine. Another possible solution would be to reduce turret build time by a few seconds.
Blanket EMP's haven't really been an issue since Blizzard reduced their radius a year and a half ago. I'm not entirely sure what this change is targeting.
Casters have traditionally been slower than the units they support. A slower Raven means that they are liable to die if you overextend and slow down air squadrons from moving around the map, especially since they can ignore terrain. Again, can you explain the goal of this change?
Your Raven spell feels like a slow storm designed to deal with Immortals. When adding a completely new spell, you have to ask what it brings to the table that you didn't already have. Since hardened shields don't apply to spell damage, Immortals can already be dealt with by a combination of Widow Mines (whose attack is actually a spell which also makes it ignore blinding cloud) and Seeker Missiles. Just slapping on new spells and upgrades has been a classic mistake that melee mods have made and I don't feel there is a big enough gap to give the Raven a 4th spell.
This is similar to our take on the Widow Mine. We chose to have Widow Mines specialize in splash damage while having Siege Tanks specialize in single target damage. You can see this in our upgrades available for each at the Factory Tech Lab. We also chose to lower Widow Mine health so they can more easily be focused down if you try to burrow them too aggressively.
While Banshee's are supposed to be fragile and able to pump out damage, 30 dps against armored targets might be excessive. With all structures being armored, this might allow a moderate sized group of Banshees to simply overpower static defenses. We went with making them slightly faster and less supply to let you sprinkle more Banshees into your builds, but your change could also produce another interesting version of the Banshee.
We chose to address the mobility issue of BCs by giving them a warp ability similar to the Hyperion from the HotS campaign. Blizzards change to combine ground and air armor makes a transition from mech to BCs incredibly durable even without researching the air upgrades. (We intend to keep the weapon upgrades separate to keep each race at 5 sets of armor+weapon upgrades and to give other races a chance to vie for air control against a tank-heavy mech player.)
For the MSC, I'm guessing that you meant "modes." We agreed that the MSC was a bit too strong at everything, we moved a version of Time Warp to the Sentry and gave it a defensive Fortify spell that gives structures hardened shields and detection. Paying resources each time you switch modes unprecedented and we would probably rather avoid that.
We agreed that the Mothership was too slow and with the removal of Vortex it needed a new spell. We gave it a stasis spell that didn't stop the units from moving and created a lot of interesting gameplay.
Your Archon and Tempest suggestions both get rejected under the same rule: for units that hit both ground and air, if the attack looks the same, it must do the same thing. This is why we removed the Tempest's bonus against massive air units and instead gave it a much smaller bonus against all armored units. If the Archon can zap at 5 range against air, why wouldn't he zap at 5 range against ground as well. For units with separate attack animations against ground and air (queen, warhound, thor) the damage, range and splash can be different.
Every upgrade costs the same amount of minerals and gas and we are sticking to that rule until Blizzard establishes that there are exceptions. If you could explain what a cheaper but slower blink would accomplish, we would love to listen.
I'm not sure that having Roaches (or in our case, Hydras) out that early would accomplish. The gameplay of using lings and queens to stall for getting more queens or spines out to defend is pretty interesting at the moment. The only possible issue might be that zealot pressure is too strong right now.
We had a similar solution on Locusts, we made them move faster and attack faster while on creep and removed the Enduring Locusts upgrade. Instead, we opted for and upgrade to spawn a 3rd Locust allowing you either to make a massive wave of Locusts and then deal with the window of weakness that followed or stagger your Swarm Hosts so only half spawn at a time.
We did this for the Infestor.
This is an interesting approach to Nydus Networks that we hadn't considered. The closest things we have to turning energy into structures is Auto-Turret and PDD on the Raven or Call-Down Supply Depot on the Orbital Command. But the turret/drone aren't permanent and the depot is more of an upgrade than a new structure. Still, it is worth looking into and we will possibly play some games with it to see how it feels.
We chose to give the Corruptor the ability Plague, but your version is also worthwhile for picking off retreating units. I don't think you could safely get your Corruptors into a position where they could corrupt approaching armies to slow advances and wouldn't be worth slowing workers to mess with mining.
We gave burrowed Roaches a speed boost since burrow was way underused
@ledarsi
+ Show Spoiler +
We have experimented with faster morphs on the Viking and the really look unnatural. Apparently Blizzard is planning to enable the transient flag on morphs at some point, but until then you have it launch a projectile that looks like a morphing Viking towards where you want to move.
Regarding the attack point change, we have generally avoided it from a balance perspective. A large amount of Vikings + some PDDs/HSMs is nearly incontestable.
The dual weapon thing is something Starbow experimented with on a Marauder/Firebat
Moving shot is neat but we want to avoid introducing too many new mechanics
@MNDakota
+ Show Spoiler +
|
As much as it pains me to say this as a zerg player, but I feel that Hellbats aren't good enough at tanking damage. Furthermore, as much as it may be a taboo to mention this name in these hallowed halls, I think that Starbow reiterated the importance of a meching terran to have access to 0-supply map control. If Hellions were given access to a defensive structure that was limited to a certain number per created Hellion, as were Vultures, it would help justify their production and allow meching armies to have cheap map control to make up for their lack of beef in their mineral dump.
An addendum to this is that Hellions need to be faster than zerglings that aren't on creep, otherwise they get completely shut down in the late-game, as they do in vanilla SC2. A cheap, yet lengthy upgrade at armory tech that moves Hellion speed from 4.25 to 4.75 would allow them to stay alive against lings off of creep for an indefinite amount of time in the hands of a skilled player. Speaking of harass, it would be nice to see Reapers in the late-game. My suggestion for how to encourage that is to increase the upgrade scaling on the Reaper from its base damage of 4(x2) and an upgrade of 1(x2), to each upgrade granting 1 + 1 light (x2) to their shots. What this would allow is for the Reaper at 3 attack upgrades to 3-shot Drones and Probes that have 3 armor or shield upgrades, respectively. A reintroduction of their nitro booster pack upgrade would also help encourage their late-game use.
|
Some quick notes about a first timer :
- Please update the OP so that the changes to the units are linked to what is ingame. I was thinking of reaper and the D4 charges. I am also pretty sure the battlecruiser jump doesn't have range 15. Also, Venalisk?
- Bug (pretty important) : it seems that zerg hotkeys for the larva are messed up. When I set up hotkeys, I see two hydra and two infestors. There is also a bug that prevents me from assigning hotkeys properly, I simply couldn't produce hydralisks from hotkeys
- Bug (perhaps gameplay problem): Carriers seem to have the graviton catapult upgrade... except that you can't research it at the fleet beacon because it is not there
- Bug (graphical, no gameplay problems) : when you upgrade the medivacs with the instant unload, the medivacs you have produced before the upgrade are not updated with new graphics. Medivacs produced after are fine
- Bug (text, no gameplay problems) : the plague tooltip when you actually plague a unit is wrong, it says 30 seconds
- Bug (display, no gameplay problems) : the scourge (or whatever the corrupter sends) has no attack button (in the bottom right corner of the screen, where you can find move, patrol, etc...). Instead, it has a blank button. There should be no button at all if it can't attack
- Bug (text, no gameplay problems): Nowhere in the tooltip of hallucination does it state that you need to focus a pylon...
Balance concerns : the hellbats are weak.
Suggestions : Do something with the reaper so that I want to use it mid-late game
Suggestions : Do something with the colossus so that it's not boring. You tried... try again 
Question : It seems that you would never want more than one oracle. Both his abilities are non-stackable.
|
I have a question : if this is a community project, shouldn't there be a public repository where we would be able to find the project itself? For example on Github.
I don't know, some people might want to have a look inside =)
|
On January 16 2014 10:14 fezvez wrote:
I have a question : if this is a community project, shouldn't there be a public repository where we would be able to find the project itself? For example on Github.
I don't know, some people might want to have a look inside =)
Well, on the 2.1 PTR, it is now published as a public, unlocked extension mod, so you can play around with it.
I think the plan is that once 2.1 goes live for real, then the extension mod version we will publish there will also be public and unlocked.
|
So like... Starbow getting all this hype; but onegoal hasn't really been mentioned at all. I would be kinda pissed if I were yal but you guys care about what you do. What are your collective thoughts on this Starbow tournaments rising up compared to your own expectations for OneGoal?
|
Me, I'm a little saddened our "plight". It reminds me of Balanced Brawl vs Brawl+ (and its psuedo-successor, Project M) thing.
However, I don't resent Starbow at all. I really like what they have done, and they deserve respect and attention. I "signed up" for this team because I agree with its goals a bit more, but that doesn't detract from my respect of how well they have accomplished their goals, and created a great mod that (like OG) it loads more fun than the original due to better design. 
|
you guys didn't pick off is because it is too hard to promote a "better" sc2.
Look at all the metagame and what people excited about, not that new queen, not the new production boost from terran, not the new scv drop, it is the BW units like lurker that attract player.
Even what killed SC:BW, the smarter Goons for example, is suddenly fine because it has some new stuff added to the overall race (for better or worse)
so One goal is too similar to SC2 in terms of units.
SC:BW too similar to BW
Starbow is a mix of SC2 and BW (although it is a lot more similar to BW, it has some sc2 stuff inside to keep some fans happy)
so don't feel too down because one goal didn't pick up.
|
|
|
|
|
On January 18 2014 03:48 JonIrenicus wrote:in the european channel there is no one 
try again. Chances are you got into the 2nd channel, which means there are 89+ in the first channel.
|
any vods of games from this? How do we play? Do people play it?
|
Is this dead? your official stream has no videos newer than 8 months
|
I highly doubt this mod is dead, in fact it will probably get more attention due to the fact that Starbow has risen in popularity.
|
I just read "Time Warp removed"
This shit got potential...!!
|
@Pontius Pirate
All of these observations are about right, but bringing back spidermines isn't really an option.
We tried a 1 supply version of the Widow Mine but there were just too of them.
You might be right about the Hellions, but having 2 upgrades for 1 unit is something Blizzard has been leaning away from, for terran at least (see removal of raven upgrade, wanting to remove ghost energy upgrade to help mech). But that is a good option, slowing down speedlings might be another approach, since they are nearly unmicroable at their current speed.
Hellbats are kinda in a bad spot. We had originally lowered Hellion+Hellbat health due to Hellions just dominating Medium armor units in large numbers by hugging and AoE. The subsequent blue flame nerf to Hellbats that Blizzard made we agreed with and mirrored. Since we removed their Biological tag, Hellbats are now flimsy, slow, and don't put out that much damage until blue flame. They are supposed to be a mineral dump and meat shield for tank lines, I wonder how high we could push their health now that they can't be healed.
About reapers, every weapon upgrade increases damage by 10% rounded to the nearest whole number greater than 0. The only exceptions are special attacks like banelings vs buildings. We have been trying to avoid breaking patterns to make things work. They do gain their old anti-building attack when you build a factory but that means they see as much mid/late-game use as in WoL/HotS. If you have a different suggestion for them, we are more than happy to listen.
@fezvez
Thanks for posting bugs, there are probably plenty hanging around.
No idea on the Medivac one, everywhere I check says I have the events set up right in the actor but they are stubborn.
Fixing the Colossus, Void Ray, and Thor have been something we have struggled with and failed repeatedly.
Reaper and Hellbat are a bit off, see above.
Since 2.1 doesn't have a date yet, might as well make the mod public.
@Emuking
There is no need to be upset. People wanted BW nostalgia and a bunch of new spells and we didn't offer that.
They have a good mod and good, active community so they deserve to be noticed.
@ETisME
Overall, it was a poor choice of a tagline. The intended reading was One Goal: helping Blizzard build a better SC2. Originally conceived as a community PTR for drastic changes that Blizzard would not be able to test without backlash. We had all sorts of crazy ideas on it, but it slowly became more of a "what we are hoping to see in LotV without creating a bunch of new units" mod.
@JonIrenicus + CutTheEnemy
The player-base fell off a lot over the summer to the point that we really haven't had people to play on at the same time for streaming.
@Hider
Are you mistaking this for the Starbow thread >.>
@dgwow
It's good to see people are discovering/still interested in our mod. With the opportunities that 2.1 presents, it would be nice to be able to put together a more polished mod with actual solution for the Colossus, Thor, and Void Ray.
@IvorYchef
Got some bad news for you, it's on the sentry now, but forcefield is removed. Hope you like the rest of what you see, though!
|
Regarding the impracticality of bringing back Spider Mines, I saw a poster on battle.net make a huge paragraph about another idea. I'll try to very roughly repeat its main points. It posited what if you had Hellions set-up a modified version of the Perdition Turret from the campaign? It could be given many of the same elements, such as the cloaked/burrowed mechanic, so that opposing armies are forced to watch their step and invest time and energy into clearing them out. There wouldn't be the nail-biting do-or-die part about avoiding a moving suicidal unit, but they'd otherwise slow down pushes and require either ranged units+detection or sacrificial units.
The main points of such a role are as follows
1. non-refundable - each set of turrets is produced from one constructable unit, and cannot be purchased separately or recharged
2. defensive in nature - it has to be immobile once placed, and would have to be naturally ineffective at clearing out mineral lines
3. 0 in supply
4. no time limit
I had an idea to make the Colossus exciting. Change the attack to roughly how it was in the very first SC2 gameplay video. You are shooting a constant beam that does damage over time, like a really powerful Sentry or Void Ray. However, whenever you change attack targets, provided that the next one is within range, your beam follows a path to the new target location, damaging all units briefly in its path. This will force players to micro their Colossi attacks heavily to get the best result, and will encourage opposing armies to create shapes that are non-linear, so as to avoid giving protoss players an easier job. It will also make armies with large numbers of Colossi nearly impossible to micro optimally, placing a natural point of diminishing returns after you've added several to your control group.
Another idea, this one regarding the Widow Mine. If you're going to go with the splash damage being a flat 40, instead of the 40 within 1.25 cells and smaller radiating outward, you can decrease the speed of the missile projectile, giving players more time to micro against it, especially with blink, burrow, or medivac pickup. But this would also make it easier for Zerglings and Zealots to be run into clumps of Marines, and if the terran player doesn't avoid those charging suicide units, they're going to have a very bad time.
Here's a Thor idea: develop it into a hardcore assaulter of defensive positions by giving it a unit-specific upgrade similar to the Ultralisk's Chitinous Plating upgrade. This upgrade would need to optimize the Thor's armor against high-damage shots, such as Seige Tanks, Immortals, Ultralisks, and Spine Crawlers. How it would function is that it would first apply armor against the incoming attack, and then apply a 25% damage reduction. For some examples, using a 3/3 Thor, against a vanilla SC2 Spine Crawler this would reduce the initial damage of 30 to 26. It would then reduce it by a further 6, bringing it down to 20. Against an Ultralisk, it would reduce the 35 to 31 and then to 24. Vanilla Immortals end up at 35, OG Immortals end up at a paltry 16. Seige Tanks at max upgrades in OG will be down to 69, from 95. Because the 25% damage reduction occurs after the armor reduction and is rounded down, Zerglings and Zealots don't suffer quite as heavily as they could, going down from 8 to 3, and 6x2 from 11x2, respectively.
Did you ever try the Corrupter just straight-up having acid spores, including splash, directly from the BW Devourer?
I've got a somewhat goofy idea to make Infestor tech better against Mutas: reverse to damage all healing done by units under the effects of fungal growth. This would even make for neat tricks with a terran player switching which units are being healed by Medivacs to avoid damaging their own units more, or maybe just putting the Medivacs on move command. The only real issue I could see this causing is with Banelings, which would be one-shotted with their current HP. Another idea would be to keep the rooting ability of fungal, but only on air units. Maybe ground units have extra traction on the ground or something that allows them to still move, albeit slowly.
|
Swarm Host
- Locust health decreased from 65 to 50.
Swarm Hosts with two locusts are good... but with 3 locusts, they can be a serious problem. A lot of splash attacks simply couldn't deal with them before they got into range, and single-target units had trouble clearing even small numbers before dying. This should make locusts significantly easier to kill, giving protoss and terran players more time to move in and kill swarm hosts after a wave of locusts passes.
i had this thought that the locust's timed life could be changed so that instead of simply dying at the end of a timer, their health slowly drains to zero in that amount of time. that way they can still be scary when they're immediately sent in to engage, but if the opponent has the option to maneuver they can kite the locusts until they're at a more manageable hp.
i dunno how long ago this patch was and maybe the fix you implemented has worked out fine, but it was an idea i had watching some tournaments today and thought i'd pass it along.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
