EPTReaver does not friendly fire. But it is quite fun.
OneGoal: A better SC2 [Project Hub] - Page 72
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
Reaver does not friendly fire. But it is quite fun. | ||
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RedGD
Germany22 Posts
Reaver does not friendly fire. But it is quite fun. Is not? Oh. Okay. | ||
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woreyour
582 Posts
I just tried the map and I have noticed some problems with zerg. 1. Vipers have passive Ultralisk bonus for no reason (the 50% less damage thingy) 2. Hydras have the same hot key for swarm host upgrade and burrow (R button). 3. I think the worm that spews creep in a long line from the nidus network is just OP  I am trying out the other races later and I really like your understanding and ideas. I hope you keep on doing this and let blizzard learn from it. Thanks guys! keep it up! :D | ||
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Phoobie
Canada120 Posts
Thematically; the colossi are immense engines of destruction, they tower over the protoss army providing a better vantage point to exploit an area of interest, they also provide long ranged firepower that can lay waste to ground armies. So, the colossus is a siege unit, however, colossi are mostly used as an AOE A-Move unit that needs a lot of baby sitting. so the changes proposed: -Extended Thermal Lance upgrade removed -Thermal Lance attack removed; replaced with Plasma Launcher (NNYF) Plasma Launcher: (Numbers are arbitrary) Fires a fast moving ball of unstable plasma that explodes on impact. Targets: Air and Ground Damage: 30 (+3) Range: 13 (6.5 vs Air) Area of Effect: 1.25 Cooldown: 2 -New Ability: Unstable Matter Unstable Matter: The Colossus' attack ignites all targets damaged by it's attacks, dealing an additional 2 damage per second for 4 seconds. These numbers are obviously pushed, is likely OP and will require a fair bit of testing to get right. Sorry tempest. the colossus is the new siege unit in town. Giving the colossus a super long range attack allows protoss to establish position, pressure and even hold key locations effectively. The current level of damage encourages better control as 1 shot will not one-hit a zergling but a second attack would be overkill because the Unstable Matter would kill the ling thereafter allowing a skilled protoss spread the damage. The air attack allows Robo tech to better fight mutalisks in the PvZ match up, a few hits on a clump of mutas will send them home hurting. The air attack also allows for colossus to retaliate against it's harder counters such as the viking and the corruptor. Ideally; Because the colossus will be able to siege a location from range, better hold a position on the map and with anti-air units being a softer counter as well as the more powerful gateway army present in One Goal protoss players can feel better about spreading out their ground army and using these units in interesting ways rather than clumping everything together to "protect the precious colossus at all costs" possible nerf ideas if toooo OP: -Reduce damage (ex: 20 (+10 light) instead of 30) -Reduce range/13 range requires an upgrade -Unstable Matter requires research -Reduce attack rate -Reduce movement speed | ||
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Nyvis
France284 Posts
The current level of damage encourages better control as 1 shot will not one-hit a zergling but a second attack would be overkill because the Unstable Matter would kill the ling thereafter allowing a skilled protoss spread the damage. It kills zerglings in one shot at 3/3 vs 3/3 right? I would reduce the base damage and buff unstable matter. And reduce the attack rate, to make each shot count. Also, if the strength is on the dot after the hit, it's a lot less interesting to stack them, and I like the idea of it. | ||
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DoctorBoson
United States24 Posts
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thezanursic
5478 Posts
Sounds fucking awesome personally I loved he fact that you could strategically splash shit in BW. It pissed me off so much when I found out that you can't kill DTs by targeting near-by marines because they don't overkill. | ||
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ItWhoSpeaks
United States362 Posts
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Phoobie
Canada120 Posts
On September 12 2013 03:45 ItWhoSpeaks wrote: It is pretty awesome. We are also looking into expanding the Maelstrom Round research to bypass 30 points of hardened shields instead of 10. As neat as this would be I feel as though you are breaking some of the game rules, ie: Hardened shields = 10 damage max always....except for this one upgrade which may not be apparent at first glance for someone jumping in. Would it be possible to redesign Hardened Shield to being a 50% reduced damage done to shields but does not affect damage at or below 10. example: ling would still do 5 damage per hit as it is damage below 10, the stalker would do 10 damage because the shield would negate the first 4 damage but 10 would get through but the siege tank, who does 50 damage a shot would do 25 damage to the hardened shields. | ||
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ItWhoSpeaks
United States362 Posts
We don't want to nerf HS if we don't have to as it dilutes the identity of the unit. Whenever possible, we want to provide means of counterplay, like how bio has EMP and Marauders or Marines and Marauders. Factory needs a way to support tanks vs Protoss. Widow Mines can't be that solution due to their range restriction and the presence of Observers. Hellbats work in Hots because of how few Immortals are deployed. However, if you test, Hellbats die really hard to Immortals, especially if Immortals kite. When P can produce Immortals in large numbers, Hellbats don't cut it. They attack too slow to get rid of the hardened shields, and they can't really block immortal shots that well. BW tanks were scary because they required special units to deal with them. In HoTS, every gateway with the exception does pretty well vs tanks. Zealots can charge, Stalkers can blink. Additionally, specialty units like the Immortal, Tempest, Prism, Colossus, and Voidray excel at killing tanks. Tanks need to be able to be successful if they are well positioned, not just if they are surrounded by marines. | ||
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ciox
58 Posts
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ItWhoSpeaks
United States362 Posts
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starimk
106 Posts
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starimk
106 Posts
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RiFT_
United States15 Posts
Most of our attempts to nerf macro mechanics have had pretty negative reactions from players. Spending all the energy every time you MULE would indeed force Terrans to be as on top of MULE-ing as Zergs are for injecting. That loss may also increase them to supply drop or scan away the wasted energy before MULE-ing. While it may create some new and interesting dynamics, an ability that drains all your energy is quite punishing for Terran players and is, ultimately, unprecedented. 2 things we had been looking at for making mass Orbital MULE-ing less appealing were to not let Orbital Commands lift off and to put a 5, 10, or 15 second cooldown on MULEs. Both have a precedent (Planetaries can't fly and Storm has a 3 second cooldown [Inject and Chrono have effective cooldowns in that they don't stack, but can be cast on multiple targets]) and both slow down strategies based around large amounts of low-risk, low-cost Orbital Commands. We apologize for not being as clear in our recent patch notes. Plague on the Corruptor is based off of Plague on the Defiler from Brood War. The Corruptor version can only target a single unit as opposed to the Defiler version which hit everything in an AoE (much like fungal). The spell itself deals 300 non-lethal damage directly to the health of the target over 60 seconds. This has a lot of interesting interactions, you can cast it on large units ahead of time to soften them up for upcoming battles, a Battlecruiser or Ultralisk coming into the fight at less than health can impact the outcome of the battle. The wording "non-lethal damage directly to the health" is very specific in that Plague can reduce units to 1 health but not kill them without any other units, but also that the damage does not affect shields and ignores armor. So even though an Archon has a large amount of "health," that is almost entirely shields and the Plague would only deal 9 damage. While this means that Protoss units have half of their "health" immune to Plague, it also means that they are incapable of healing, regenerating, or repairing the damage dealt by Plague, so you can bring a Pylon or Photon Cannon to half health with Plague and show up with Mutalisks or Zerglings later to easily pick it off. Plague's interactions with Terran are equally interesting. Although Plague cannot kill a structure by itself, it can push buildings into the Burn-Out Zone and cause them to burn down (can be accomplished with one Plague on any add-on, Turret, Bunker or Supply Depot). It also interacts interestingly with Medivacs: although the unit cannot die, the Medivac will attempt to heal it for the full duration of the Plague causing it to waste 100 energy on healing the Plagued unit. This can easily be avoided if the Terran player notices and pulls the Plagued unit away from the Medivacs for the duration of the Plague. Overall, Plague is quite an interesting spell and we feel it may have something to add to the game on the Corruptor as opposed to Corruption. If you have suggestions for a different Corruptor ability we would love to hear them. | ||
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
Void Ray numbers and logic: + Show Spoiler + cost 400/400 - This makes it a capital ship in cost, similar to a Battlecruiser, but more vespene. Making a Void Ray is a big investment, and your investment should be well-supported in order to reduce risk. time: 150s - This isn't too bad after chronoboost, and in a way, it even encourages carrier play more, by giving players one more reason to tech up that high, yet having carriers be cheaper and quicker to produce than Void Rays. supply 6, from 4 - This emphasizes using few of them, rather than just massing them up and hoping for the best. HP/Shields: 250/350 - This is 600 in total, which dies in exactly two hits of Yamato cannon. It's extremely beefy against everything that's not optimized to kill it. The large pool of shields (in comparison with the Carrier) allows it to be more viably used as an assault unit that pulls back when damaged (like an archon), rather than the most protected member of a deathball, the way a Colossus often is. Armor: 4 - Marines and Hydras won't kill it very quickly, but due to the nature of its attack, it won't kill them all that quickly either. Engaging the Void Ray against low-tier units won't doom it by any means, the way it used to, but it's not necessarily going to be cost-effective, either. Attack: 1st stage 6 (+4 armored), 2nd stage 8 (+8 armored), 3rd stage 10 (+12 armored) - tbh, I kind of just pulled these numbers off of liquipedia and hoped for the best. I haven't really researched the damage much. Don't take the actual numbers from this part too seriously. Attack Range/Leash Range: 7/10 - This encourages players to go into range to attack defensive structures, and then pull out one or two squares away and keep attacking. Flux Vanes upgrade: 150/150, 80 seconds - In addition to increasing speed by 0.703 and acceleration by 0.6875., this upgrade also allows the void ray to move in reverse while shooting, like the Phoenix. This is important, because it makes retreating while using the leash range possible. Players who pay close attention to this can do a ton of unrequited damage against base defenses and immobile or slowed units. Possibly also introduce an upgrade that gives the Void Ray's shields +1 or +2 armor, in order to further emphasize its role as an assault-and-retreat unit, in addition to greater discouragement of using low-tech units to counter it. I also had an idea to mildly improve the Carrier. Currently, the main problems with the carrier are that units whose mobility exceeds its own counter it (like the viking, which you have partially fixed), and it just isn't very good until you've invested into TONS of upgrades for it. In my mind, the solution is to make the Carrier slightly better in a support role, right off the bat. You've done a little bit to improve this, as you've rolled graviton catapult into the default carrier. However, I think it needs just a bit more help. I think that the attack of interceptors should be given +1 against armored targets. This will help mitigate the high armor value that upgraded units have against unupgraded Carriers when they first come out, without being overwhelming to cope with. | ||
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Nyvis
France284 Posts
Most of our attempts to nerf macro mechanics have had pretty negative reactions from players. Spending all the energy every time you MULE would indeed force Terrans to be as on top of MULE-ing as Zergs are for injecting. That loss may also increase them to supply drop or scan away the wasted energy before MULE-ing. While it may create some new and interesting dynamics, an ability that drains all your energy is quite punishing for Terran players and is, ultimately, unprecedented. Seriously? Inject does pretty much the same to Zergs. I don't see why Terrans would be allowed to be favoured in this. :< I also had an idea to mildly improve the Carrier. Currently, the main problems with the carrier are that units whose mobility exceeds its own counter it (like the viking, which you have partially fixed), and it just isn't very good until you've invested into TONS of upgrades for it. In my mind, the solution is to make the Carrier slightly better in a support role, right off the bat. You've done a little bit to improve this, as you've rolled graviton catapult into the default carrier. However, I think it needs just a bit more help. I think that the attack of interceptors should be given +1 against armored targets. This will help mitigate the high armor value that upgraded units have against unupgraded Carriers when they first come out, without being overwhelming to cope with. Or maybe just remove the possibility to upgrade interceptors, but give them part of the upgrade as a permanent bonus? People very rarely upgrade air, and even less often up to three, so this should not reduce their efficiency much in very late game, while making them ready quicker. | ||
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
On September 17 2013 08:40 Nyvis wrote: Or maybe just remove the possibility to upgrade interceptors, but give them part of the upgrade as a permanent bonus? People very rarely upgrade air, and even less often up to three, so this should not reduce their efficiency much in very late game, while making them ready quicker. Is there any precedent for a .5 damage upgrade? I feel like they could do well at 7 base attack, and .5 damage per upgrade, so that they're only at 8.5 when fully upgraded, which is only .5 damage more than what it would normally (as much as "normal" can be applied to this situation) be at +3 air attack upgrades. That's only like 45.5 dps at +3, as opposed to 42.6 dps that it is during vanilla HotS. Compare this to the dramatic difference between 37.3 dps and 26.7 dps, which compares 7 base attack of interceptors with the current 5. This way, it would be a massive buff to their base utility, and only a tiny (think along the lines of 5% boost to dps) buff to their maxed-out, end game deathball strength. Unrelated, I had an idea for a Corruptor ability. Nauseating Expulsion: inflicts one targeted unit with a a gaseous aura that slows down all units within 2 range of it, friendly or foe, but does not change the movement of that one unit at all. Lasts for maybe 45 seconds or something. This would be an excellent way to snipe colossi, and discourage deathball play. Colossi would move out of the big mass of units, or harm the group's mobility and make it vulnerable to surrounds. But this would make them vulnerable to either direct attacks, or to vipers or even infestors (hello, NP!) hanging out around the fringes. | ||
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ItWhoSpeaks
United States362 Posts
1. Go for Warp Gate and produce Immortal Zealot, follow up with 1 Stargate and make 2-4 Phoenix, or 1-2 Tempest or 1-2 Oracles for super strong pressure. This works really well vs Terran Mech as both Phoenix and Tempest kill tanks effectively. However. Bio with fast stim and/or mine support will shut this down pretty tight as you don't have Range Stalkers or detection. In this case you want to go heavy Zealot Tempest with 2-3 Immortals to bust Bunkers and settle for a contain and expand like mad behind it. The alternative is to go Oris and try to get a ton of SCV kills behind this. This latter composition is especially effective vs Zerg but requires a MSC to not be all in. 2. Go for Stalker Range and either Phoenix or Tempest. This is especially strong in PvP as you can wear down Immortal Positions based defense and snipe any MSCs or bait overcharge. Heavy Stalkers on the enemy side can be countered by Zealot warp ins, making Blink play very dangerous. The mobility of Phoenix or correct positioning and target firing of Tempests make Blink play almost required, making a chargelot transition potentially game-winning. You will have a lot more room to safely macro behind this. With an MSC you can do this vs Zerg to force a huge number of Hydras and/or Lings. With Tempests you can snipe Queens with ease on some maps. This comp also allows for a fast transition to Robo for observers vs a Swarm Host transition. It comes down to the timings. 3. Go for +1 Air and Zealot production, with either a forge for +1 attack or +1 armor depending on if it is Zerg or Terran. This involves 2 SG and an MSC. This allows you to create a fortified natural with cannons and a nice pool of Zealots to threaten Hydras or Marines, while you can terrorize overlords with Phoenix. Tempests in such numbers so early in the game can easily snipe techbuildings or hatches and with +1, can 2 shot hydras. With a Zealot wall, this is can outright win the game. Since your gas is going into tech units, you should have plenty of minerals for probes, expansions, and cannons/zealots. Simply put, between the Colossus being weaker and the Tempest being so strong in the right hands, as well as a more durable phoenix and an Oracle that benefits from air, AND reduced upgrade times for Air. Going air upgrades isn't just viable, I believe it is the optimal choice more often than not. Nauseating Explusion: it is an interesting idea in its own right. I think it would be a lot more cool if Fungal wasn't in the game. However Fungal Growth, is a bit more interesting given that it can miss and a much stronger answer to deathballs when it lands. | ||
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dvorakftw
681 Posts
On September 12 2013 03:45 ItWhoSpeaks wrote: It is pretty awesome. We are also looking into expanding the Maelstrom Round research to bypass 30 points of hardened shields instead of 10. I always thought it would be cool if tanks could have a Shrapnel upgrade that does a small amount of AoE bonus damage so for example imagine 3 projectiles that did 2 or 5 or whatever damage so not only could this solve the hardened shell being such a hard counter to tanks but also deathballs in general and packs of marines and lings in particular would be more punished for running at tanks. I also like the concept of upgrades or variations of spells so for example you could upgrade infestor fungal to be instant or close to it, Templar storms that expand or move, quicker nukes or hiding the dot an extra second, etc. For the void ray, how about giving it the oracle's attack and give the oracle a spell that makes it like a mobile shield battery? Apologies if any of this was discussed previously. | ||
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