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Work In Progress Melee Maps - Page 109

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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Keep our forum clean! PLEASE post your WIP melee maps in this thread for initial feedback. -Barrin
Harreh
Profile Joined September 2013
90 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-01 17:11:33
April 01 2014 17:11 GMT
#2161
Yeah I agree, it does feel 'forced', especially the 2nd design.

I need to start a new map don't I? lol
Coppermantis
Profile Joined June 2012
United States845 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-01 19:18:08
April 01 2014 19:15 GMT
#2162
On April 01 2014 21:05 moskonia wrote:
Ah so this was an April fools joke all along right? No really the style is horrible, it is too distracting since it seems like the map is buggy, even if you know it isn't.

I don't think so, 'cause it doesn't look quite like that in the actual game. Overview's a bit messy, but in-game I don't find it distracting at all, much less "horrible."
I understand that it's not exactly something that'd be fit for ladder or competitive play, but I disagree that it's as bad as you're saying it is. The islands outside of the playable area do look messy, though, so I'll give you that.

Honestly, right now, I don't care about the artstyle. I just want to know if people think it's a feasible layout or not.
And G
Profile Joined May 2012
Germany491 Posts
April 01 2014 20:14 GMT
#2163
Feasible? Sure. Good? Not in my opinion, no.

Basically, I think there are too many bases that clearly belong to one player, and that it's too easy to get to four or even five bases with all entrances being relatively close together (everything is packed so densely), so this looks like a map that encourages deathballs to me. Coupled with the lack of harassment vulnerability of any of the bases (except maybe the 6/12 o'clock bases) and the narrow middle lanes even without rocks this looks like a Protoss favoured map to me, not necessarily in terms of winning percentages, but mostly because if Zerg can't get much early damage done they're basically forced to go SH, because how else are you going to break a Protoss who sits on five bases in his little corner when spawning cross?

By the way, it's kind of difficult to get a good idea of the map with that weird texturing. It seems there are cardinal ramps at the middle high grounds but I'm not even sure; maybe post an analyzer picture?
not a community mapmaker
iamcaustic
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1509 Posts
April 01 2014 22:14 GMT
#2164
On April 02 2014 04:15 Coppermantis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 21:05 moskonia wrote:
Ah so this was an April fools joke all along right? No really the style is horrible, it is too distracting since it seems like the map is buggy, even if you know it isn't.

I don't think so, 'cause it doesn't look quite like that in the actual game. Overview's a bit messy, but in-game I don't find it distracting at all, much less "horrible."
I understand that it's not exactly something that'd be fit for ladder or competitive play, but I disagree that it's as bad as you're saying it is. The islands outside of the playable area do look messy, though, so I'll give you that.

Honestly, right now, I don't care about the artstyle. I just want to know if people think it's a feasible layout or not.

The layout has a disgusting amount of resource concentration. There is zero incentive to leave your little corner on the map until you hit 200/200. Why does a 1v1 map need 20 bases?
Twitter: @iamcaustic
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
April 01 2014 22:55 GMT
#2165
@Harreh I don't think your proposed changes are bad ideas necessarily, but I don't think they're needed either. And yes you might want to start thinking up new 3+p maps. ^^
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
Harreh
Profile Joined September 2013
90 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-02 15:17:33
April 02 2014 15:15 GMT
#2166
All right then, moving on!

I like the base setup but it seems really boring in the middle. It gets really crowded and tight for space to actually do anything with it due to the symmetry converging there.
New 4p map:
[image loading]

Possible gold base set up:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
And G
Profile Joined May 2012
Germany491 Posts
April 02 2014 17:15 GMT
#2167
That Overgrowth-style layout looks really standard and boring (and not well suited for rotational symmetry), and the middle seems uninspired.

I think that if you want to enter a map in the TLMC, then you should design your layout around a four-player map from the beginning rather than try fitting a standard layout in a four-player map. And if this isn't for the TLMC, then I see no reason to make it a four-player map in the first place. Also, rotational symmetry is much harder to do than axial symmetry, and just because you can fit a certain main/nat/third setup into a rotational map doesn't mean it's a good idea to do so. I'd suggest trying axial symmetry instead.

Also, gold bases don't make any sense on this map unless you get rid of other bases IMO.

Sorry for negativity, but this just seems to lack a central concept.
not a community mapmaker
iamcaustic
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1509 Posts
April 02 2014 17:29 GMT
#2168
On April 03 2014 00:15 Harreh wrote:
All right then, moving on!

I like the base setup but it seems really boring in the middle. It gets really crowded and tight for space to actually do anything with it due to the symmetry converging there.

What, exactly, are you trying to accomplish with this design?
Twitter: @iamcaustic
Afito
Profile Joined April 2014
1 Post
Last Edited: 2014-04-03 02:07:52
April 03 2014 02:06 GMT
#2169
So, I gave the map editor a go myself.

It's my very first try so I guess I made some rather obvious mistakes...

First, the map:

http://imgur.com/a/gdq3B
(since I can't img here as new user)

It's not meant too serious. I wanted to make a map with citadel style points allowing you to place a bit of defense on. Mostly used for Siege Tanks and Spines I guess. I made the pathways small so you can not stack too much stuff there and by placing the rocks I wanted to give early aggression a better opportunity. To give the attacker a better chances I tried to add more small paths around the bag, one defended by 2 hostile spines.

For instance, I feel like I made the bases way too small and/or tried to fit too many bases onto the map. I feel like I didn't really know what to do in the middle so I just put something there and now it kind of looks awkward. On top, the S-shaped LOS breaker is not something I'd do again like this, maybe around a smaller path, but toying with vision is just retarded there.

In retroperspective I just wish I could expand the entire map, I'm gonna remake it either way to get a better feeling for the tool. I mostly have trouble finding the right map sizes right now.
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
April 03 2014 04:52 GMT
#2170
@Afito: Not too bad for your very first try! Most important you discovered that mapping involves a lot of planning, design, and revision. Keep at it and you'll pick up the ability to do all these naturally without thinking too much about it. glhf!
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
Erotes
Profile Joined April 2014
1 Post
April 03 2014 10:05 GMT
#2171
Maps' called Peacefull Skeloten Realm Invaded by Helicopter, tell me whatcha think.
http://i.imgur.com/TXQUKoB.png[/img][/img]


And G
Profile Joined May 2012
Germany491 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-03 11:13:25
April 03 2014 11:13 GMT
#2172
On April 03 2014 19:05 Erotes wrote:
Maps' called Peacefull Skeloten Realm Invaded by Helicopter, tell me whatcha think.
http://i.imgur.com/TXQUKoB.png

Everyone's first map is bad, but yours looks like an illustration for a "how not to design a SC2 map" guide. I'd like to list the things you need to improve but quite frankly I don't even know where to begin, so I suggest you read up on the guides in this post under "Mapping -> Guides -> 101 Layouts" instead.


@Afito, your map looks much better, but also has many typical mistakes. The linked guides are probably useful for you as well.
not a community mapmaker
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
April 03 2014 16:06 GMT
#2173
@erotes: you have a strong concept with a lot of execution problems. try to combine your idea with the "rules" from the guides and G linked.

@and G: Don't let iamcaustic's passive aggressive style of criticism rub off on you, I don't think it suits you. ><
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
iamcaustic
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1509 Posts
April 03 2014 18:28 GMT
#2174
On April 04 2014 01:06 EatThePath wrote:
@and G: Don't let iamcaustic's passive aggressive style of criticism rub off on you, I don't think it suits you. ><

I'm not passive aggressive, I'm just direct. Potato potahto in the eyes of some?

Mapper's Index is an excellent resource for getting started, however. I approve of its linkage.
Twitter: @iamcaustic
And G
Profile Joined May 2012
Germany491 Posts
April 03 2014 18:58 GMT
#2175
It's horribly outdated though. I think it would be great if we had a single compilation of map design rules with explanations and exceptions; e.g. like this:
  • The main needs to be separated by a single narrow (one forcefield wide) diagonal ramp from the rest of the map.
    • Exception: If the distance between main ramps is longer than xy seconds, the ramp may be two forcefields wide.
    • Exception: The main ramp can be wider than one forcefield if the rest is initially blocked by rocks and there is an in-base natural.
    • Exception: There can be an additional backdoor entrance blocked by rocks if x and y applies.

  • The entrance to the main needs to be in range of the natural Nexus cannon.
    • Exception: ...
    • Exception: ...

  • ...

I mean, with everyone having internalized all the rules by now, I think we sometimes forget why these rules exist in the first place and under which circumstances we can ignore them. New map makers ignore them all the time because they don't know them (see Erotes' map), and then the rules are drilled into them and they end up producing the same kind of maps everyone makes. That's also why I don't like to tell aspiring map makers stuff like "put your main on the high ground with a single narrow ramp" because I think it's important that you first understand why whis is a good idea.
not a community mapmaker
Phaenoman
Profile Joined February 2013
568 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-03 20:35:54
April 03 2014 20:32 GMT
#2176
I think that [I] Mapper's Index is too confusing and too much information for ppl that want to start making melee maps. As u suggest a collection of rules would be good imo. But I woudn't bother with those exceptions. If u start mapmaking u should be having strict rules to follow. When u know the game, got a feeling for mapmaking and understand the need of certain rules u start to think about breaking them and compensating that by other changes or features. Thats where experience kicks in.
Random is hard work dude...
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
April 03 2014 21:09 GMT
#2177
On April 04 2014 03:28 iamcaustic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2014 01:06 EatThePath wrote:
@and G: Don't let iamcaustic's passive aggressive style of criticism rub off on you, I don't think it suits you. ><

I'm not passive aggressive, I'm just direct. Potato potahto in the eyes of some?

Mapper's Index is an excellent resource for getting started, however. I approve of its linkage.

It's not you it's me. </3

Just trying to provide support for the newbies.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52798 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-04 13:32:44
April 04 2014 13:32 GMT
#2178
Here is the first of my two team maps that I will be submitting. This one is a 2-in-1 2v2 map. You can either spawn in the fortress in the top left and bottom right or the not-fortress in the top right and bottom left. (Yes, it is cross spawns only) The former encourages defensive play, and the latter recommends offensive play.
Size is 176^2.

&#91;image loading&#93;

Anything I should do before I add aesthetics?
ModeratorI am still alive, somehow
TL+ Member
Phaenoman
Profile Joined February 2013
568 Posts
April 04 2014 13:43 GMT
#2179
Is there a tiny path to each others base when u spawn at 1/ 7 o'clock?
What's with those 2 small highgrounds at the center? Are u gonna place XNT there?
Random is hard work dude...
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52798 Posts
April 04 2014 13:48 GMT
#2180
On April 04 2014 22:43 Phaenoman wrote:
Is there a tiny path to each others base when u spawn at 1/ 7 o'clock?

No.

On April 04 2014 22:43 Phaenoman wrote:
What's with those 2 small highgrounds at the center? Are u gonna place XNT there?

Probably XNT, yeah. Not entirely sure yet, haven't play tested it.
ModeratorI am still alive, somehow
TL+ Member
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