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Active: 729 users

[M] (2) oZz Orbit Brutus <WIP>

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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eTcetRa
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia822 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-01 08:41:56
June 18 2012 13:57 GMT
#1
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Overview

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Map Details

                  Name Orbit Brutus
                  Version 0.2
                  Bounds 150x166
                  Bases 12
                  Published Privately; soon on US and SEA

Map of the month update! Aesthetics have been mostly completed and the lighting has been updated. Notable changes include:
                   Bounds decreased.
                   Chokes created and removed in certain areas.
                   Third Base significantly tighter.
                   Orientation of LOSB's changed outside third.
                   High ground between natural and fifth made into low ground (path from natural still exists via ramp.
                   LOSB's added between path from middle to fourth.
                   Destructible debris added to ramps from center to high ground near natural (not blocking).
                   Rocks removed from small path to fifth.
                   High ground pod (with ramp) behind sixth base.
                   Mid ground pods between low ground and high ground main, to allow cliff-walking in places.
                   Added three hidden crows to be found. Enjoy that one :D


It takes 1 creep tumour to connect a Zerg's main to it's natural, 2 to connect that natural to the third, and another 3 to connect the third to the fourth. The choke at the natural can be blocked in multiple ways, either with three 3x3 buildings, or you can leave a gap. Also behind the third is a small high ground pod that a Terran can drop onto to harass the mineral line, but the pod is not too large.



Analyzer Image

+ Show Spoiler [Click for image] +

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Gameplay Images

+ Show Spoiler [Click for image] +

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Eye Candy

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Previous Versions


+ Show Spoiler [Version 0.1] +

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Overview

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Map Details

Name Orbit Brutus
Version 0.1
Bounds 160x162
Bases 12
Published Privately; soon on US and SEA

This map originally started out a lot smaller but had a lot of issues with CS and having your fifth directly under the main, so it became necessary to increase the bounds and space out the map, overall I believe the map has turned out fairly well but I need your feedback to make it great! Currently I do not have any huge concerns but i am a little blind so help me out! Thanks for checking out my map and hope to hear from you all! Aesthetics Incomplete

It takes 1 creep tumour to connect a Zerg's main to it's natural, 2 to connect that natural to the third, and another 3 to connect the third to the fourth. The choke at the natural can be blocked in multiple ways, either with three 3x3 buildings, or you can leave a gap. Also behind the third is a small high ground pod that a Terran can drop onto to harass the mineral line, but the pod is not too large.



Analyzer Image

+ Show Spoiler [Click for image] +

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Gameplay Images

+ Show Spoiler [Click for image] +

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Eye Candy

+ Show Spoiler [Click for image] +

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Retired Mapmaker™
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
June 18 2012 14:07 GMT
#2
Nice texturing. I think the 4th etc. bases are fine, I´d rather bother with the 3rd. I´d cut the center, small path leading to the natural. Unless your testing proved it to be fine. The problem is that Zerg can split up their forces much more effectively.
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
June 18 2012 14:58 GMT
#3
Looks good to me, except it looks too hard to actually attack any bases after the early game.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
TheFish7
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States2824 Posts
June 19 2012 04:41 GMT
#4
Nice work man, any chance we could see a full overview?
~ ~ <°)))><~ ~ ~
eTcetRa
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia822 Posts
June 19 2012 04:42 GMT
#5
The entire top half of the map is hard to look at but I'll do a bit of work to it today and post an overview shortly.
Retired Mapmaker™
ihasaKAROT
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4730 Posts
June 19 2012 06:36 GMT
#6
The map looks slightly cramped and I have to go with templar on this one, theres no way to have a big engage in an open area since its too easy to control the chokes now (specially T and P)

Aesthetics are yumyum tho!

Maps like these wanna make me install my sc2 and make maps again
KCCO!
eTcetRa
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia822 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-15 14:10:40
June 19 2012 11:43 GMT
#7
It might appear cramped but the map is actually quite large, with the playable bounds being 160x162.

Some changes I'm making at the moment:
+ Show Spoiler +
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1. Widen ramp to base on low ground
2. Widen the path leading from fourth to sixth and remove dead space behind fifth.
3. Same as 2.
4. Move ramp towards low ground (increasing space on high ground).
5. Add rocks between third and fourth to create a defensible choke (really not sure about this).


Would love some solid feedback before I go further
Retired Mapmaker™
ihasaKAROT
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4730 Posts
June 19 2012 12:04 GMT
#8
I would widen the ramp to the third ever so slightly
KCCO!
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
June 19 2012 12:57 GMT
#9
On June 19 2012 21:04 ihasaKAROT wrote:
I would widen the ramp to the third ever so slightly


Yes, definately. I like the other changes.
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
eTcetRa
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia822 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-15 14:10:53
June 22 2012 08:15 GMT
#10
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


All above changes have been made, work on the aesthetics are well under way. Not quite sure if I should keep those rocks on the ramp to the centre bases or not. Also made the centre less chokey.
Retired Mapmaker™
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
June 22 2012 08:39 GMT
#11
I would keep the rocks. These bases are already very close the the opponent.
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
ihasaKAROT
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4730 Posts
June 22 2012 08:41 GMT
#12
Im not sure, you are really forcing all the plays to happen in mid with those rocks. Theres alternative routes but they are waaaaay far away, not to mention they are spotted by the xelnagatowers
KCCO!
MQM5K
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States53 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-22 13:30:32
June 22 2012 13:29 GMT
#13
Map looks good. I like it. Too many choke points though. I'd take the dead space out of the middle and replace it with sight blockers and really widen the choke leading to the open space in front of the naturals and thirds.
eTcetRa
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia822 Posts
June 22 2012 15:37 GMT
#14
On June 22 2012 22:29 MQM5K wrote:
Map looks good. I like it. Too many choke points though. I'd take the dead space out of the middle and replace it with sight blockers and really widen the choke leading to the open space in front of the naturals and thirds.


Funny you mention that part about the middle I was thinking that myself!!
Retired Mapmaker™
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10154 Posts
June 22 2012 15:58 GMT
#15
I need an overview to look at this better tbh. but it looks like a really solid map right now. a bit too many chokes and stuff.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
eTcetRa
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia822 Posts
June 24 2012 12:30 GMT
#16
A couple ideas for the middle. One central tower instead of two separate ones.

Option A:
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Option B:
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Retired Mapmaker™
Ragoo
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany2773 Posts
June 24 2012 12:47 GMT
#17
This is a very well made standard 2p map, both layout and aesthetics. Congrats you don't suck as a mapmaker at all!

It's sad that there is quite some wasted space next to the mains and third. I guess you could at least use some of it to extend main size to 35 CCs. Also you could make some of the space next to third highground to make air harrass easier.
I expect extraordinary aesthetics work in these areas to make up for how shitty they are

Both middle options are fine. I think I prefer the open one cos all the bases are kinda choky already.
Member of TPW mapmaking team/// twitter.com/Ragoo_ /// "goody represents border between explainable reason and supernatural" Cloud
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10154 Posts
June 24 2012 17:02 GMT
#18
I prefer option B, less choky, even though its only applied to one area. I think you still need to make everything less choky, because it's basically guaranteed for big fights for one army to be sandwiched into one choke or with one always having the high ground.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
SidianTheBard
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2474 Posts
June 24 2012 17:12 GMT
#19
Zergs bitch too much about chokes imo. This map is pretty damn big 160x162 which only favors zerg that much more. The 3rd is easily defendable and open enough that we'll see the good ol' 3 base zerg all the time. I think most map makers now a day are stuck in the past where they feel if the map isn't completely open zerg can't win. Which isn't the case at all now a day especially since infestor play is becoming much more popular. Mutas, Infestors, Banelings, Brood Lords all work extremely fine with chokes.

If anything, the more chokes you have the less good Roach play is which only makes ZvZ and ZvP better because we already see enough Roach vs Roach wars in ZvZ and 3 base Roach against Toss is I swear 75% of the games.
Creator of Abyssal Reef, Ascension to Aiur, Battle on the Boardwalk, Habitation Station, Honorgrounds, IPL Darkness Falls, King's Cove, Korhal Carnage Knockout & Moonlight Madness.
ArcticRaven
Profile Joined August 2011
France1406 Posts
June 24 2012 18:28 GMT
#20
That's becoming a great map !

I think you should make the choke in the nat-to-fifth direct path pathable ; forward chokes and additional paths are always cool to have around. Also the nat choke looks linda weir and somewhat inelegant. Couldn't you enlarge it and make it be in the the middle of the wider main-to-third area so it's nicer ?

I prefer the first version btw.
[Govie] Wierd shit, on a 6 game AP winning streak with KOTL in the trench. I searched gandalf quotes and spammed them all game long, trenchwarfare247, whateva it takes!
eTcetRa
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia822 Posts
June 28 2012 03:29 GMT
#21
I've gone with option B to have a large open staging ground that provides a lot of vision to fight over.

Not sure about the nat-fifth path i never really wanted to get rid of it in the first place. We shall see!

Working on making a visible overview for the moment, then shall fix the OP!
Retired Mapmaker™
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
June 28 2012 04:05 GMT
#22
What do you think about a very narrow path connecting the two main high grounds:

[image loading]

You could make it only passable to marines/lings/zealots or however.

Did you think about this? The map doesn't need it really. Just seemed cool.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
SidianTheBard
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2474 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-28 04:16:21
June 28 2012 04:16 GMT
#23
On June 28 2012 13:05 EatThePath wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

What do you think about a very narrow path connecting the two main high grounds:

[image loading]

You could make it only passable to marines/lings/zealots or however.

Did you think about this? The map doesn't need it really. Just seemed cool.


He had it in his original map. I think too many people complained about it so he took it out. (At least I think that was the case)
Creator of Abyssal Reef, Ascension to Aiur, Battle on the Boardwalk, Habitation Station, Honorgrounds, IPL Darkness Falls, King's Cove, Korhal Carnage Knockout & Moonlight Madness.
eTcetRa
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia822 Posts
June 28 2012 04:31 GMT
#24
Yeah i originally had a narrow path that allowed movement of all units, but was quite congested.

People said it would be better with out so I've given it a trial, and so far i found i preferred having a path there.
Retired Mapmaker™
SidianTheBard
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2474 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-28 05:08:24
June 28 2012 05:07 GMT
#25
I know I've posted in this thread already but I didn't really give you any feedback besides saying the amount of chokes in the map is fine and don't listen to all that zerg QQ about too many chokes.

Ideas for ya:

Picture:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]


First, add back in the narrow pathway you were just talking about, but make it a little bigger. Make sure the two high ground pods next to it are not pathable. Add LoSB on each entrance to it (The grey lines = LoSB)

Shrink the ramp going to the middle to a double wide instead of a triple wide that it's at now (The Light Blue)

Add a new pathable area behind your natural that gives some high ground coverage to the third. This will help out a lot for protoss and terran, since the 3rd is a little farther away and more open the high ground will help them defend it easier. Add a little LOSB to that new area behind the natural as well, to add some "security" to drops or sneaky play.

Get rid of the d-rocks by the 3rd. Instead add more pathable high ground (The Light Green) on that side of it. I was thinking adding a ramp where one of the d-rocks is now. It would be a great play to drop some units but wouldn't be that OP since there would be a ramp to get up there.

The two little high ground pods by the NE and SW bases (6ths?) I don't think are needed. They don't do much for gameplay.

Also might want to think about making the d-rocks in the middle just 1 rock instead of the 2 they are now.

Keep it up!
Creator of Abyssal Reef, Ascension to Aiur, Battle on the Boardwalk, Habitation Station, Honorgrounds, IPL Darkness Falls, King's Cove, Korhal Carnage Knockout & Moonlight Madness.
IronManSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2119 Posts
June 28 2012 06:43 GMT
#26
why why why can't you post an overview... i don't get why some people use analyzer-only photos >.<

I can't give any criticism with an analyzer photo since I don't even know what's a flat choke and what's a ramp.
SC2 Mapmaker || twitter: @ironmansc || Ohana & Mech Depot || 3x TLMC finalist || www.twitch.tv/sc2mapstream
Mullet_Ben
Profile Joined August 2011
United States54 Posts
June 28 2012 06:48 GMT
#27
I would recommend taking the 2 destructible rocks between the 3rd and the 4th and making one rock on one side of the choke. There's no reason why someone would want to destroy one set but not the other, so I don't think having 2 rocks there is helpful in any way. It only gives you more things to break.

Same with the rocks on the ramps in the middle. I can't really tell from the analyzer, but they look like 2 sets of rocks, in which case they should really just be put together into one big set. If someone wants to break down those rocks offensively, splitting it into 2 parts just makes it harder to clear the ramp for an attack.
eTcetRa
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia822 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-28 09:37:43
June 28 2012 07:06 GMT
#28
On June 28 2012 15:43 IronManSC wrote:
why why why can't you post an overview... i don't get why some people use analyzer-only photos >.<

I can't give any criticism with an analyzer photo since I don't even know what's a flat choke and what's a ramp.


Overview will be up within the next couple hours! That is a promise this time!
Retired Mapmaker™
eTcetRa
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia822 Posts
June 28 2012 09:47 GMT
#29
Overview for current version:
[image loading]


Analyzer for current version:
[image loading]
Retired Mapmaker™
eTcetRa
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia822 Posts
July 01 2012 14:19 GMT
#30
Quite a large update in the original post, all details are there!

Thanks for all the feedback guys!
Retired Mapmaker™
WniO
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2706 Posts
July 01 2012 14:25 GMT
#31
man this looks like los_novaria. at least the initial layout. fantastic visuals.
SeinGalton
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
South Africa387 Posts
July 01 2012 14:46 GMT
#32
Wow ... I really like it. Great job on the aesthetics too - this map has received a lot of love and it shows.

The only thing I can think of right now is that it seems a little tougher to take a fifth base, and your first four bases are always going to be in the same locations. At least that's the way it seems. But it's a minor issue especially since the layout promises some exciting and dynamic games. This map looks like a lot of fun to play, I hope to see it do well in addition to being published on EU. Really nice work.
They're coming to get you, Barbara.
SidianTheBard
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2474 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-01 15:14:45
July 01 2012 15:13 GMT
#33
I actually think you should just get rid of the ramps in the middle that are covered by d-rocks. The more I look at it the more I don't think they are needed at all, especially with the other ramp right next to it. Also shrink the ramps pointing towards the middle by 1. It'll make that 5th a little "easier" to hold.
Creator of Abyssal Reef, Ascension to Aiur, Battle on the Boardwalk, Habitation Station, Honorgrounds, IPL Darkness Falls, King's Cove, Korhal Carnage Knockout & Moonlight Madness.
The Final Boss
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1839 Posts
July 01 2012 15:18 GMT
#34
I think this is a really great looking map. I can't really comment on the balance having not played on it, but if I get a chance and it's on NA I'll certainly give it a shot. One thing that I do not really like is that the LoS blockers are brush; I understand that it's on rock, but space seaweed or whatever it is just looks weird and does not really compliment the rest of the map. I would change them to be smoke screens just because it works better with the space station feel that you are going for. Other than that, I love the way this map looks, keep up the great work! :D
eTcetRa
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia822 Posts
July 02 2012 04:08 GMT
#35
On July 02 2012 00:13 SidianTheBard wrote:
I actually think you should just get rid of the ramps in the middle that are covered by d-rocks. The more I look at it the more I don't think they are needed at all, especially with the other ramp right next to it. Also shrink the ramps pointing towards the middle by 1. It'll make that 5th a little "easier" to hold.


I may yet remove the ramps with the rocks, but i don't think I will be reducing the ramp going to middle, though I might move it over a bit.
Retired Mapmaker™
IronManSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2119 Posts
July 02 2012 05:05 GMT
#36
It's a neat map but everything is just so spread out...
SC2 Mapmaker || twitter: @ironmansc || Ohana & Mech Depot || 3x TLMC finalist || www.twitch.tv/sc2mapstream
eTcetRa
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia822 Posts
July 02 2012 12:07 GMT
#37
On July 02 2012 14:05 IronManSC wrote:
It's a neat map but everything is just so spread out...


With the layout as it is, would you consider it that bad of a thing for things to be a little more spread rather than clumped?
Retired Mapmaker™
OxyGenesis
Profile Joined May 2012
United Kingdom281 Posts
July 14 2012 16:52 GMT
#38
Sorry for bumping this but holy shit this map is awesome, great work eTcetRa. Would love to see some pro games on it.
Maker of Maps inc. Vector, Uncanny Valley and Fissure | Co-Founder of SC2Melee.net
Kmatt
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1019 Posts
July 14 2012 17:12 GMT
#39
Did anyone else notice that you can tank drop the cliff behind the natural? I thought we learned from Lost Temple...
We CAN have nice things
Timmay
Profile Joined April 2005
United States112 Posts
July 14 2012 17:29 GMT
#40
It won't be droppable in game. If you look at the overview, that cliff is clearly blocked by a doodad. However, I would still be concerned about Siege Tanks being able to hit the natural from the third.
Fetchystick
Profile Joined November 2011
United States43 Posts
July 14 2012 21:44 GMT
#41
I think that this map would work great with the 6m1hyg concept (and I'm not just saying this because I think the concept is great). If you could really force a thrid from each player I think we could start seeing some serious back-and-forth action and split armies. It has everything a 6m1hyg map needs!

Easy third: Third base is close enough to main and has no rocks/nearby high ground to make third base hard to take

Seperate paths to third: You cannot defend both your third base and your natural by keeping your entire army in one location

Strategic points: Many different areas of the map have strategic value other than "there are minerals here that I must mine/keep the enemy from mining". This will encourage smaller skirmishes around the map as well as fighting in areas other than the paths between the bases.


I'd like to try this map out in 6m1hyg form.
"He's either really dumb or he's up to no good. Either way, I should probably all-in.
eTcetRa
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia822 Posts
July 15 2012 02:04 GMT
#42
On July 15 2012 02:12 Kmatt wrote:
Did anyone else notice that you can tank drop the cliff behind the natural? I thought we learned from Lost Temple...


It is blocked by a doodad but does not show up on analyzer, will put a no pathing doodad up and reupload the analyzer at some point soon!
Retired Mapmaker™
shadogi
Profile Joined November 2011
United States194 Posts
July 15 2012 04:10 GMT
#43
I feel like the Xel'Naga towers are too powerful. It feels like you can literally control the entire map with 4 lings (one on each tower and one in each choke). Might make the map a little too zerg favored (i'm zerg, so this is actually fine!)
AssyrianKing
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia2111 Posts
July 16 2012 11:06 GMT
#44
This map kind of encourages me to play mech against a protoss, I wouldnt wanna go bio into a choke and get stormed lol
John 15:13
eTcetRa
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia822 Posts
August 01 2012 08:42 GMT
#45
Map of the month update has been made! Love some feedback on the changes.
Retired Mapmaker™
lost_artz
Profile Joined January 2012
United States366 Posts
August 01 2012 09:16 GMT
#46
I clicked on the Eye Candy spoiler but there were no women, what gives? :D

Joking aside, amazing work with the doodads.
OxyGenesis
Profile Joined May 2012
United Kingdom281 Posts
August 01 2012 09:29 GMT
#47
I love this map! Definitely well in the running to win the ProAm. I really hope it doesn't have any fps issues because my god, it's beautiful. My only slight concern is that the rush distance is too long but that's not really a big issue. Also the top left and bottom right aesthetic areas are basically the same, I would have liked them to be differentiated. Other than that, top mapping!
Maker of Maps inc. Vector, Uncanny Valley and Fissure | Co-Founder of SC2Melee.net
eTcetRa
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia822 Posts
August 01 2012 09:36 GMT
#48
On August 01 2012 18:29 OxyGenesis wrote:
I love this map! Definitely well in the running to win the ProAm. I really hope it doesn't have any fps issues because my god, it's beautiful. My only slight concern is that the rush distance is too long but that's not really a big issue. Also the top left and bottom right aesthetic areas are basically the same, I would have liked them to be differentiated. Other than that, top mapping!


Yes I've slightly ran out of time. Relationship issues, ftl!

Will be working on making some changes to those areas to set them apart.

~1400 doodads, lower than some maps I've seen.
Retired Mapmaker™
SeinGalton
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
South Africa387 Posts
August 01 2012 09:55 GMT
#49
I didn't think it could be improved so much and so well, since it was already really good as far as I was concerned. But I really like the changes - well, more like adjustments. The previous one looked prettier in the overview because of the dark highround swirling into midmap, but this one seems far more playable and and promotes a more army movement and aggression during mid game. In fact looking at it now, I'm convinced it will make for excellent games.

Great job on the aesthetics too - I think you're gotten very decent mileage out 1400 doodads, the map is jaw dropping. Honestly, I hope this does really well in the ProAm competition. Maybe it can go even further, because it's fucking awesome.
They're coming to get you, Barbara.
a3den
Profile Joined April 2012
704 Posts
August 01 2012 14:43 GMT
#50
Very good changes, definitively a strong contender for the MotM Proam.
eTcetRa
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia822 Posts
August 12 2012 07:46 GMT
#51
Working at further reducing the bounds, current version I am working on is sitting at 142x156.
Retired Mapmaker™
Semmo
Profile Joined June 2011
Korea (South)627 Posts
August 12 2012 08:17 GMT
#52
I don't think reducing the bound fixes the map. I mean reduced airspace has pros and cons but yeah.
Mapmaker of Frost, Fruitland and Bridgehead
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