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[D] Competitive 2v2 maps. - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
May 12 2012 14:07 GMT
#101
Is that level underlava or something?
Heh_
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Singapore2712 Posts
May 12 2012 16:29 GMT
#102
The player spawning at the 3/9 positions would have a hard time walling off the main choke because he's so far away. I like the idea of the backdoored natural though. Also feels like you could add more bases if you spread your map to the corners.
=Þ
TheFish7
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States2824 Posts
May 12 2012 18:33 GMT
#103
@TehTemplar - Cool! the pocket expo is an interesting choice, and the natural with the backdoor is safe at first, but vulnerable to warp ins and seige tanks later on. It looks good to me - I'm trying to come up with contructive criticisms, but its hard since we are in pretty much in uncharted territory now.

Here is my current WIP, I'm worried the 3rds may be a bit too easy

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
~ ~ <°)))><~ ~ ~
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
May 12 2012 18:54 GMT
#104
Wow this map so open... even though since it is 2v2 it might turn out to be fine, but the lack of chokes will be hard on Protoss I think.
Easy 3rd is a good thing but I think that the 4th might be too hard to get, since it is so close to your opponents' 3rd.
Gold bases will be REALLY hard to take, not better to make them reward you more?
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
May 12 2012 19:33 GMT
#105
Can you label the spawn points? I can't tell, out of the 4 bases in each corner, which ones are supposed to have players. It's completely asymmetrical, devoid of any pattern or apparent reason whatsoever. Not that that's an inherently negative quality, but it could do for a little explanation.

...
-Highest ground bbases
-Perfectly symmetrical
Don't know what you're talking about.
Is that level underlava or something?

no
@TehTemplar - Cool! the pocket expo is an interesting choice, and the natural with the backdoor is safe at first, but vulnerable to warp ins and seige tanks later on. It looks good to me - I'm trying to come up with contructive criticisms, but its hard since we are in pretty much in uncharted territory now.

Thanks I am considering several changes currently.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
Callynn
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands917 Posts
May 12 2012 19:58 GMT
#106
On May 12 2012 21:36 TehTemplar wrote:
Hello, I created a 2v2 map last week.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

I tried to make it pretty heavy macro style, please let me know what you think.


Hmm, although it is better than the ladder pool, I still feel it's a bit too small. If you want a heavy macro map you should consider slower rush times (like over 185) and more 'safe' expansions for each team. Most 2v2 maps in the ladder pool have 4 blue and 1 gold per team (sometimes 5 blue and 1,5 gold per team). You map has 6 blue 1 gold per team, which is still not enough in my opinion.

Also, while the middle seems very open, the fortress problem comes into play on each team's plateau (if you remember twillight fortress, it was a horrible map where lower bracket teams would turtle a lot, making for very long horribly boring matches). This should be avoided.

On May 13 2012 03:33 TheFish7 wrote:
@TehTemplar - Cool! the pocket expo is an interesting choice, and the natural with the backdoor is safe at first, but vulnerable to warp ins and seige tanks later on. It looks good to me - I'm trying to come up with contructive criticisms, but its hard since we are in pretty much in uncharted territory now.

Here is my current WIP, I'm worried the 3rds may be a bit too easy

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


I like this map a lot, it has a good open middle and relatively many bases to safely take per team.

Be sure to both publish your map and post about them when all aesthetics are done, and good luck with polishing them
Comparing BW with SCII is like comparing a beautiful three-master sailing ship with a modern battlecruiser. Both are beautiful in their own way, both perform the same task, but they are worlds apart in how they are built and how they are steered.
thezanursic
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
5478 Posts
May 12 2012 21:15 GMT
#107
Could we contanct blizzard soo they can take a look at this maps
http://i45.tinypic.com/9j2cdc.jpg Let it be so!
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
May 13 2012 08:22 GMT
#108
Maybe someone should open a thread in the official forums and link to here? that would be the best solution I think.
Endrjuu
Profile Joined June 2006
13 Posts
May 14 2012 15:58 GMT
#109
2v2 was really good and a lot of good players from sc/bw were playing it, but that was before the shared main thing. When Lost temple and metalopolis were available for 2v2 (early beta). I used to love playing 2v2 back then, now it's more like a fun meh Umsy kind of game 100% casual.

People maybe dont realise but 2v2 was really competitive @sc/bw pretty much all leagues had 1x or 2x 2v2 and a lot of ex korean progamers played it (iccup) etc and enjoyed it, in sc2 blizzard took it away ;/

Btw maps like fighting spirit and python were the most popular@ sc/bw so random starting positions sometimes cross sometimes one side, and simetrical would be the best (lots of different openings/tactics)
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
May 14 2012 21:47 GMT
#110
Hmm, although it is better than the ladder pool, I still feel it's a bit too small. If you want a heavy macro map you should consider slower rush times (like over 185) and more 'safe' expansions for each team. Most 2v2 maps in the ladder pool have 4 blue and 1 gold per team (sometimes 5 blue and 1,5 gold per team). You map has 6 blue 1 gold per team, which is still not enough in my opinion.

There are no gold bases?
But yeah, 6 blue.


Also, while the middle seems very open, the fortress problem comes into play on each team's plateau (if you remember twillight fortress, it was a horrible map where lower bracket teams would turtle a lot, making for very long horribly boring matches). This should be avoided.

Well, if you concentrate on the low ground protecting all 6 bases, you are so vulnerable to drops, nydus, etc.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
PandaZerg
Profile Joined April 2012
Canada148 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-14 22:29:17
May 14 2012 22:28 GMT
#111
Here a new one I am working on for 2v2

2v2 map
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
May 14 2012 23:14 GMT
#112
Panda this looks more like a 1v1 map :S having only 12 bases + 2 golds. I think it would be better just as a 1v1 map and as such it looks cool, but if you want to make it a 2v2 map it needs closer bases or connecting the bases with a small strip of land (the 1 and 2 position bases and the 7 and 8 position bases), so it is possible to defend.

As a 2v2 map I would put another base between the 2 mains, there seems to be a perfect place for it
Phanekim
Profile Joined April 2003
United States777 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-14 23:22:07
May 14 2012 23:21 GMT
#113
it stilll annoys me how team maps are smaller than 1v1 maps.

balance in this game is designed for 1v1 big maps...so why are 2v2 maps too small and why hasn't blizz done a better job uupdating this map pool...cmon..

i like cheese
PandaZerg
Profile Joined April 2012
Canada148 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-15 00:18:18
May 15 2012 00:07 GMT
#114
@moskonia Yes it is a great idea! But if I do it I will have to place it to avoid proximity of siege tank... But map is also designed for 1v1... That why base are no connected or closer... But I think you are right about closer bases / connected bases on 2v2 because it's easier to defend against team push.

Personally I think 2v2 maps don't need to be that much big... Most of 2v2 games are played between 10 and 15 minutes because of the strength of timing push. I did a small 2v2 map (160x160) because I like small 2v2 map.

I also recognize that if 2v2 map are bigger and bases are connected, it will be easier to defend against team timing push.

Finally, it depends if you are looking for fast games or long games

EDIT: @moskonia I followed your tip about another base where you told me and I do like the result (looking). I will do some tests for gameplay...
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
May 15 2012 01:00 GMT
#115
Panda, I don't think it is possible to make balanced 2v2 maps that are 1v1 maps as well I might be wrong but if I am not, you might want to just make two versions of the map that look similar but has differences, one for 1v1, and the other for 2v2.

I too don't think that 2v2 maps needs to be very large, but they do have to have easy expansions just like 2v2, maybe even easier, they do need to have a way that you can help your partner when he is attacked, and they do need to have a decent amount of expansions: 6 bases is pretty bad, 7 bases is decent and 8+ I think is good for the moment.

About the golds, I think it would be better to rotate them, so it is a tiny bit easier to take one of them, since right now they are just so contested.

P.S. if you still want to focus on the 1v1 part, I think making the 3rd into a 6m1hyg expansion might be interesting idea, and maybe, only maybe, make the 2 rocks at each of the sides 1 rock only (I am guessing in 1v1 all spawn locations are enabled?)
PandaZerg
Profile Joined April 2012
Canada148 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-15 01:25:37
May 15 2012 01:22 GMT
#116
Here the new result.

2v2 - 1v1 Map New result

The result is now better in both 1v1 and 2v2. I will have to do more tests.
About 1v1, I know everyone will not be agree, but only far by air (no-cross) position are enable. Third of both players are near of each other, but thirds are separate by 2lines of rocks. It will be more easy to take a fourth with your tip (the new base I did) on each site in the middle.

Check number down the main ramp of each base:
1v1: 1vs3 or 2vs4
2v2: 1&3 vs 2&4

I also think you are right. It's pretty pretty hard to have a good/balanced 1v1/2v2 map at the same time... Almost impossible. I did my best to reach this utopia
Demx
Profile Joined September 2011
United States11 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-15 17:34:33
May 15 2012 17:28 GMT
#117
So I am not a map maker but this topic got me thinking about how to team games better. When I think of team game I always think of giving players roles or some sort of positions. When I thought about what positions would be possible in a SC2 team game the main thing I could come up with is the idea of makeing a map that gave incentives for specific players to focus on different stages of the game. Early, Mid, and Late game (or just early mid for 2v2). This led me to a more teir structure and more seperation not just between allies but enemies. So that it is esentially a 1v1 in the early game (that players role) with the two other players doing something more econ focused due to greater distances and some barriers that can not be broken without significant investment like destructable rocks that seperate the players in to pairs. Howfully the picture below should help show what I mean. The idea is to make the inner area more like the size of Xel'Naga Caverns and the Outter area about the size of Shakuras or possibly larger. The black space is empty/impassable by ground.
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]




moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
May 15 2012 17:47 GMT
#118
Interesting idea, 2 1v1's idea was already suggested by someone,but making it so that you have a very long rush distance for 1 player and the other short distance might be interesting. Even though I suspect that what will happen is mainly feeding with basic defenses, or maybe helping your partner via air, warping past the barrier or some other sort of passing it, which would make it a 2v1 or atleast a 1.5v1, which would be very hard on the defender.

Still. there is no tell until some good map makers takes your idea and makes it a reality
Demx
Profile Joined September 2011
United States11 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-15 18:10:43
May 15 2012 18:09 GMT
#119
Ya there are alot of things that I am not sure about, but what I was hoping is with the open path for say the longer rush distance players is if they help do some sort of 2v1 or 1.5v1 with air that it would open up the top lane to punishment for such play. Like say the top lane opens 1 base 2 port banshee and the inner lane some sort of early marrine tank push (supper 111). Then the top lane may be vunrable to say a big banneling bust from the top player. So counter attacking/punishing 2v1 early game would be possible. But untill it is created/played there is no telling what could happen.
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
May 15 2012 18:52 GMT
#120
With so many talented map makers I am sure someone will go up for the job
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