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On May 08 2012 09:06 Heh_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 05:50 Gfire wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Alright, I've updated the entire thing a bit. How does this look? There's only one watchtower now, and I added some rocks at the harder to defend natural, and widened the ramp up to the further bases. The central paths are also a bit wider now. Not sure what to name it.. I think I'm gonna go with a sort of lava/dungeon theme, though. Hmm.. nice updates but I'm having second thoughts about the natural layout. As it stands, the attacker can rush up one of the entrances to the main, which causes the defender to scramble because the attacker has a shorter distance from the split path to the choke than the defender (somewhat circle syndromish). This is somewhat negated by good high ground positioning, although careful army movement negates this melee units don't benefit either. Could it be possible to put the two ramps to the main pointing toward each other (but separated a suitable distance) so that the defender doesn't run around like headles chickens, and leaving that to the attackers/
I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say. The distance from ramp to ramp is shorter for the defender, if that's what you are referring to.
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Yeah war zone was an awesome map really gives me nostalgia, I think it can be good if recreated with a nat for each player and a small bride to connect the players, I might try to do it if no one else would want it. 
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On May 08 2012 09:20 PowerDes wrote:I would advise taking a second look at the season 1 map  War Zone, the size of the map is pretty perfect, only I believe players should have their own ramps.
Holy shit. That map which was rush-fest? There was literally no choke, and the rush distance was also ridiculously short. Grats on Blizzard removing that map after 1 season.
On May 08 2012 09:50 Gfire wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 09:06 Heh_ wrote:On May 07 2012 05:50 Gfire wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Alright, I've updated the entire thing a bit. How does this look? There's only one watchtower now, and I added some rocks at the harder to defend natural, and widened the ramp up to the further bases. The central paths are also a bit wider now. Not sure what to name it.. I think I'm gonna go with a sort of lava/dungeon theme, though. Hmm.. nice updates but I'm having second thoughts about the natural layout. As it stands, the attacker can rush up one of the entrances to the main, which causes the defender to scramble because the attacker has a shorter distance from the split path to the choke than the defender (somewhat circle syndromish). This is somewhat negated by good high ground positioning, although careful army movement negates this melee units don't benefit either. Could it be possible to put the two ramps to the main pointing toward each other (but separated a suitable distance) so that the defender doesn't run around like headles chickens, and leaving that to the attackers/ I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say. The distance from ramp to ramp is shorter for the defender, if that's what you are referring to.
The defenders have to split themselves to defend two separate chokes. It feels like the attackers can commit to attacking one entrance, and the army defending the wrong entrance has to run all the way the other side.
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On May 08 2012 10:16 Heh_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 09:50 Gfire wrote:On May 08 2012 09:06 Heh_ wrote:On May 07 2012 05:50 Gfire wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Alright, I've updated the entire thing a bit. How does this look? There's only one watchtower now, and I added some rocks at the harder to defend natural, and widened the ramp up to the further bases. The central paths are also a bit wider now. Not sure what to name it.. I think I'm gonna go with a sort of lava/dungeon theme, though. Hmm.. nice updates but I'm having second thoughts about the natural layout. As it stands, the attacker can rush up one of the entrances to the main, which causes the defender to scramble because the attacker has a shorter distance from the split path to the choke than the defender (somewhat circle syndromish). This is somewhat negated by good high ground positioning, although careful army movement negates this melee units don't benefit either. Could it be possible to put the two ramps to the main pointing toward each other (but separated a suitable distance) so that the defender doesn't run around like headles chickens, and leaving that to the attackers/ I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say. The distance from ramp to ramp is shorter for the defender, if that's what you are referring to. The defenders have to split themselves to defend two separate chokes. It feels like the attackers can commit to attacking one entrance, and the army defending the wrong entrance has to run all the way the other side.
You mean the natural chokes? Yeah, that's true for the natural chokes, which is why you have to take down the rocks when you expand. Is it broken?
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On May 08 2012 12:03 Gfire wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 10:16 Heh_ wrote:On May 08 2012 09:50 Gfire wrote:On May 08 2012 09:06 Heh_ wrote:On May 07 2012 05:50 Gfire wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Alright, I've updated the entire thing a bit. How does this look? There's only one watchtower now, and I added some rocks at the harder to defend natural, and widened the ramp up to the further bases. The central paths are also a bit wider now. Not sure what to name it.. I think I'm gonna go with a sort of lava/dungeon theme, though. Hmm.. nice updates but I'm having second thoughts about the natural layout. As it stands, the attacker can rush up one of the entrances to the main, which causes the defender to scramble because the attacker has a shorter distance from the split path to the choke than the defender (somewhat circle syndromish). This is somewhat negated by good high ground positioning, although careful army movement negates this melee units don't benefit either. Could it be possible to put the two ramps to the main pointing toward each other (but separated a suitable distance) so that the defender doesn't run around like headles chickens, and leaving that to the attackers/ I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say. The distance from ramp to ramp is shorter for the defender, if that's what you are referring to. The defenders have to split themselves to defend two separate chokes. It feels like the attackers can commit to attacking one entrance, and the army defending the wrong entrance has to run all the way the other side. You mean the natural chokes? Yeah, that's true for the natural chokes, which is why you have to take down the rocks when you expand. Is it broken?
I meant before expanding, when it's a 1base vs 1base scenario. Worst case scenario is 1 of the naturals is claimed, making defense virtually impossible.
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On May 08 2012 12:06 Heh_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 12:03 Gfire wrote:On May 08 2012 10:16 Heh_ wrote:On May 08 2012 09:50 Gfire wrote:On May 08 2012 09:06 Heh_ wrote:On May 07 2012 05:50 Gfire wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Alright, I've updated the entire thing a bit. How does this look? There's only one watchtower now, and I added some rocks at the harder to defend natural, and widened the ramp up to the further bases. The central paths are also a bit wider now. Not sure what to name it.. I think I'm gonna go with a sort of lava/dungeon theme, though. Hmm.. nice updates but I'm having second thoughts about the natural layout. As it stands, the attacker can rush up one of the entrances to the main, which causes the defender to scramble because the attacker has a shorter distance from the split path to the choke than the defender (somewhat circle syndromish). This is somewhat negated by good high ground positioning, although careful army movement negates this melee units don't benefit either. Could it be possible to put the two ramps to the main pointing toward each other (but separated a suitable distance) so that the defender doesn't run around like headles chickens, and leaving that to the attackers/ I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say. The distance from ramp to ramp is shorter for the defender, if that's what you are referring to. The defenders have to split themselves to defend two separate chokes. It feels like the attackers can commit to attacking one entrance, and the army defending the wrong entrance has to run all the way the other side. You mean the natural chokes? Yeah, that's true for the natural chokes, which is why you have to take down the rocks when you expand. Is it broken? I meant before expanding, when it's a 1base vs 1base scenario. Worst case scenario is 1 of the naturals is claimed, making defense virtually impossible.
Defending 1 base while the rocks are up, the distance to bounce between the two ramps is shorter on the inside, so it shouldn't be a problem unless they can take down the rocks too easily.
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Long story short, because I know I'm ending up at a page only a rare few people read:
I play 2v2 competitively.
Every map currently in the ladder pool, with the exception of Tyrador Keep is a nightmare due to their limited size, favoring rushes almost exclusively.
Every map I have seen suggested in this post is better than any map in the current 2v2 ladder pool, even without aesthetics.
How horrifying is it that Blizzard won't commit to better 2v2 maps.. =(
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I play 2v2 for an hour a day with a partner on Skype. We're top 8 platinum, so we suck considerably, but we found the same thing. In 2v2 there has not been any of the progression that there has been in 1v1 for map design and gameplay evolution.
We played macro for a long time. We tried making some harass units, and keeping constant worker production. We couldn't get out of platinum.
Recently we've gone to a strategy of doing an all-in rush, catching up macro behind it, lathering, rinsing, and repeating. We've gone on a win streak now.
The problem with the current map pool is exactly what everyone in this thread is trying to fix. You can't expand in a 2v2 game unless you have total domination of the map. To get that domination you have to rush, and either do damage or contain your opponents.
Tyrador is a nightmare for altogether different reasons. The maps have improved since early seasons, but the IPL YOMT shows what 1v1 was like before. Rushes were incredibly effective because of the maps. 2v2 needs to have that evolution also.
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On May 10 2012 02:05 Callynn wrote:
Long story short, because I know I'm ending up at a page only a rare few people read:
I play 2v2 competitively.
Every map currently in the ladder pool, with the exception of Tyrador Keep is a nightmare due to their limited size, favoring rushes almost exclusively.
Every map I have seen suggested in this post is better than any map in the current 2v2 ladder pool, even without aesthetics.
How horrifying is it that Blizzard won't commit to better 2v2 maps.. =(
It could be worse. They could layout the minerals like they do on 4v4 maps.
![[image loading]](http://eliteownage.com/blizzarddgafa4v4.jpg)
I think our best hope is that blizzard realizes how terrible the 2v2 maps are and releases a bunch of good ones in Heart of the Swarm. It would also be nice if they did for 3v3 and 4v4, but they stated they simply don't care about 3v3 and 4v4.
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On May 10 2012 11:23 locopuyo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 02:05 Callynn wrote:
Long story short, because I know I'm ending up at a page only a rare few people read:
I play 2v2 competitively.
Every map currently in the ladder pool, with the exception of Tyrador Keep is a nightmare due to their limited size, favoring rushes almost exclusively.
Every map I have seen suggested in this post is better than any map in the current 2v2 ladder pool, even without aesthetics.
How horrifying is it that Blizzard won't commit to better 2v2 maps.. =( It could be worse. They could layout the minerals like they do on 4v4 maps. I think our best hope is that blizzard realizes how terrible the 2v2 maps are and releases a bunch of good ones in Heart of the Swarm. It would also be nice if they did for 3v3 and 4v4, but they stated they simply don't care about 3v3 and 4v4.
Have you seen the mineral layout on Desert Oasis? Or any old Blizzard map for that matter. I only noticed it during the IPL YOMT. Anyway to fix that dumb drone problem, you have to move it to the "correct" side then resume mining. Something like how pathing sometimes goes crazy around buildings near gas geysers.
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I would love to see new 2v2 maps. The current ones are just plain bad. I feel like there is no way to take even semi safe natural expand since all those backdoor rocks, wide main ramps and wide natural chokes make it really hard to defend early rushes. I also dislike the general lack of control points in maps. Its not much use to have a Xel Naga tower in areas where no one really travels through.
Also the maps seem to be really rushed out and never botherd to think if they actually work. Like bunch of kids got their hands on galaxy editor and planted some things and stuff without a thought.
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On May 12 2012 07:26 Jaakoppii wrote:
I would love to see new 2v2 maps. The current ones are just plain bad. I feel like there is no way to take even semi safe natural expand since all those backdoor rocks, wide main ramps and wide natural chokes make it really hard to defend early rushes. I also dislike the general lack of control points in maps. Its not much use to have a Xel Naga tower in areas where no one really travels through.
Also the maps seem to be really rushed out and never botherd to think if they actually work. Like bunch of kids got their hands on galaxy editor and planted some things and stuff without a thought.
Everybody knows the maps are bad. Even the "best" ones (Boneyard) have several negative points. I wish I had 8 vetoes.
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This is my brand new Broodwar Map. I know this is the SC2 forum but some may be interested:
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/4493.jpg)
Thread CLICK HERE
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Why don't you try to make it into a SC2 map? cause I seriously doubt BW has any future anymore. Also even if it would survive somehow after the kespa / blizz deal, and BW map making will have some future, I don't think many people who look at the SC2 forums play BW, so posting it here is futile.
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Wrong forum, don't care.
Back on the correct track, TheFish7 is designing a few 2v2 maps. Hope they turn out well!
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I meant some may be interested in the layout.
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Yes I do believe that is what he was going for, just looking at the features of the map and see how they might translate into SC2
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On May 12 2012 09:56 Heh_ wrote:
Wrong forum, don't care.
On May 12 2012 09:39 moskonia wrote:
Why don't you try to make it into a SC2 map? cause I seriously doubt BW has any future anymore. Also even if it would survive somehow after the kespa / blizz deal, and BW map making will have some future, I don't think many people who look at the SC2 forums play BW, so posting it here is futile.
Wtf??? Lower your hackles bros.
On May 12 2012 09:10 CardinalAllin wrote:This is my brand new Broodwar Map. I know this is the SC2 forum but some may be interested: Thread CLICK HERE
Isn't this a little constricted for a BW map? I guess maybe that's the point of the winding alternate path, to emphasize the bridge to center. Anyway this would make a sweet SC2 map except the 4 and 10 bases would need to the small ramp rearranged to be further away from the small ramp to the corner bases. And it could use at least one more set of bases. Thanks for sharing. ^^
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your Country52796 Posts
Hello, I created a 2v2 map last week.
+ Show Spoiler +
I tried to make it pretty heavy macro style, please let me know what you think.
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Can you label the spawn points? I can't tell, out of the 4 bases in each corner, which ones are supposed to have players. It's completely asymmetrical, devoid of any pattern or apparent reason whatsoever. Not that that's an inherently negative quality, but it could do for a little explanation.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LMzRU.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AEYwB.jpg)
