I took my previous map, Cross Point, which was an experimental 6M FRB map, and transformed it into a standard 8m2g map for the current metagame. I reduced each player from 7 bases to 6, and I overhauled the map's tileset from desert to spring.
You might ask "why a spring theme?" Well for obvious reasons it's April, but also because I felt that a spring theme has not been fully developed or explored yet amongst the SC2 map community, and I wanted to experiment with the possibilities of trying to create a spring map, and so this is what I churned out!
The map's theme (or aesthetics) feature patches of melting snow, with rocky, muddy grass all over (the mud helps define the paths). I also added a shade of light haven grass around the snow to give the grass a more "frozen" look to it (like dew on the grass in the morning). There are lots of flowers as well In the near future I'm going to try adding some man-made decorations, since the man-made areas look a little bland right now, but man-made aesthetics are not my cup of tea
The thirds on high ground can be walled off on its alternative entrance/exit with 3-rax, so this should not be too much of a problem to defend. Otherwise, you can grab 4 bases linearly, or expand around your main base which allows for different play styles. This base setup worked well in FRB, so I presume it will be at least okay for the current metagame in 8m2g play. Each main base features a small "step" for drops, colossi, stalkers, reapers, etc. This helps with harassment but also to reinforce the base hugging your main.
I think those center bases would be nearly impossible to hold especially against a terran player with tanks. Maybe there should be a benefit for taking that base rather than others because of its vulnerability.
On April 18 2012 16:45 HighLach wrote: I think those center bases would be nearly impossible to hold especially against a terran player with tanks. Maybe there should be a benefit for taking that base rather than others because of its vulnerability.
I think mereel captured this setting better with his 2in1 map - still the snow needed to be changed because of the complains about visuals issues players seem to have with those.
On April 18 2012 17:42 dezi wrote: I think mereel captured this setting better with his 2in1 map - still the snow needed to be changed because of the complains about visuals issues players seem to have with those.
Mereel's version of this tileset, the old Damage Inc before it was changed to desert, wasn't necessarily spring as i recall. It was just standard grass/snow/dirt... like a mountain-like tileset (minus the mountains).
I think there is just waaaaayyyy too much ground in the middle, there arent really even any bases there so the map looks needlessly large to me. I think the aesthetics are top notch though!
On April 18 2012 22:49 CaptainCrush wrote: I think there is just waaaaayyyy too much ground in the middle, there arent really even any bases there so the map looks needlessly large to me. I think the aesthetics are top notch though!
I plan to add a 3rd gas to the center bases to make them worth more. The middle is actually not as large as it appears to be. It's a good size for mid/late-game encounters.
I like that you need presence in the centre to secure the middle third, but I think the rocks should be on the other side of the ramp to allow you to get behind your expansion from the low ground a bit faster.
unfortunatly snow isnt really viable as a texture with 'correct' lighing because its just too bright as travis said. that was also the reason why i changed the tileset on damage.
No offense, a well made map no-doubt, except that it's just like 90% of maps being made these days. There's literally only two main > third progressions that exist in map making today, and it's gotten awfully stale IMO. I hate to say it, but Blizzard has been the only ones to make truly original maps, even if only one out of many of them are fit for competition.
First glance, great map. The main > natural is very standard so all types of builds should be viable. The overall look of the map does remind me a whole lot of Damage Inc, which isn’t a bad thing at all because like you said it does feel like the whole aesthetic direction wasn’t ever expanded on much.
A couple thoughts: 1) Make sure the “balcony” in the main base is far enough away that siege tanks can’t hit the main building. It looks like it is but I swear tank range is always farther then it looks.
2) There’s some pathable highground outside of the base right by your main. Unsure if you want that pathable or not?
3) I feel the little pieces of highground outside the lowground 3rd should be changed. I think the ramp going up to them should be facing towards the main, rather then the way they are facing now. Think about colossus, tanks, pylons, ranged units sitting up there and hitting that forward third. You would have to run your whole army extremely far around the map to get to that little ramp and then just that…it’s a little ramp. I mainly feel it’ll be rough in PvX for the terran or zerg because Protoss could abuse that little piece of high ground to all hell. It’s already risky enough to take, that piece of highground at least with the direction the ramp is in now feels too much.
4)I’d like the watertowers moved closer to the center of the map, just by a couple notches. Right now unless you are moving in very small groups of army you will always been scene by watertowers. I feel if they are pushed toward the center of the map by about 5-10 squares, you now have no vision at all around the complete outside of the map.
5) I’d like to see rocks (more rocks? Wtf) on the 2 wide ramps by the corner bases (2 & 8 bases) This will play out perfectly if you can move the watertowers a bit because you’ll still feel safe as long as those rocks are up. Also make the 4th a tad bit easier to take assuming they don’t get broken down mid game.
That’s about all I can think of off the top of my head.
On April 18 2012 22:49 CaptainCrush wrote: I think there is just waaaaayyyy too much ground in the middle, there arent really even any bases there so the map looks needlessly large to me. I think the aesthetics are top notch though!
I plan to add a 3rd gas to the center bases to make them worth more. The middle is actually not as large as it appears to be. It's a good size for mid/late-game encounters.
I strongly advise do not put a third gas at the center base. There are two things that it will mess up. First it makes taking that expansion as an aggressive expansion ridiculous for Protoss and Terran (similar issue on Atlantis Spaceship). Second it makes mutalisks and infestors ridiculously powerful on 3 bases vs. a 2base protoss if you can get away with it. I don't think we need any more gasses or minerals for current maps. If you change that base, I'd like to see it have fewer minerals and/or gasses so it isn't as powerful to take. Yes it is hard to take, but the solution isn't to make it more rewarding because then "if a player gets ahead, he gets even more ahead", and that leads to flawed maps that discourage the better player from coming back and winning.
This is the most beautiful map ever! I'd love to play it simply for its beauty! That aside, I really like it tactically speaking. Not too open but not too choky. I like :D.
On April 18 2012 22:49 CaptainCrush wrote: I think there is just waaaaayyyy too much ground in the middle, there arent really even any bases there so the map looks needlessly large to me. I think the aesthetics are top notch though!
I plan to add a 3rd gas to the center bases to make them worth more. The middle is actually not as large as it appears to be. It's a good size for mid/late-game encounters.
Don't add more gas! The position at the watchtower is already quite strong to cover your 4 bases, you really shouldn't make the base right next to it more powerful. If anything reduce the ressource count on that base, since it's a good base to take in conjunction with the strong tower position.
I think an earlier map version already had a half base there? I wanted to complain when you changed that but I forgot, sorry.
edit: Also monitor's analysis of it being a winner's base is kinda right, too. You can't hold the base without a lot of map control.
On April 18 2012 22:49 CaptainCrush wrote: I think there is just waaaaayyyy too much ground in the middle, there arent really even any bases there so the map looks needlessly large to me. I think the aesthetics are top notch though!
I plan to add a 3rd gas to the center bases to make them worth more. The middle is actually not as large as it appears to be. It's a good size for mid/late-game encounters.
Don't add more gas! The position at the watchtower is already quite strong to cover your 4 bases, you really shouldn't make the base right next to it more powerful. If anything reduce the ressource count on that base, since it's a good base to take in conjunction with the strong tower position.
I think an earlier map version already had a half base there? I wanted to complain when you changed that but I forgot, sorry.
edit: Also monitor's analysis of it being a winner's base is kinda right, too. You can't hold the base without a lot of map control.
Yup. It's a winners base. Don't make it even more powerful. And just btw ragoo, you totally copied everything I said
Going to talk about aesthetics specifically, and understand I'm being extremely critical here, but:
1. First of all I like what you've done with the mud/grass/snow. Looks sharp and I know it was a ton of work. 2. Besides the Main/Natural/Third, there is a severe lack of texture distinction between areas. The entire center of the map has the exact same theme, this makes it difficult for a spectator to distinguish what area of the map the camera is viewing. Its a minor thing, but it makes the map easier to understand and more appealling visually. 3. The manmade stuff I think you've overdone the minimalism. Instead of using 2 nearly identical textures I think you'd be better off with something a little different, possibly with some decals to spice it up. You don't have to go crazy, but I find myself wanting more variety in the manmade sections.
Other than that I think you're in good shape. I won't comment on the layout because theres already enough people doing that.
On April 20 2012 02:18 wrl wrote: Going to talk about aesthetics specifically, and understand I'm being extremely critical here, but:
1. First of all I like what you've done with the mud/grass/snow. Looks sharp and I know it was a ton of work. 2. Besides the Main/Natural/Third, there is a severe lack of texture distinction between areas. The entire center of the map has the exact same theme, this makes it difficult for a spectator to distinguish what area of the map the camera is viewing. Its a minor thing, but it makes the map easier to understand and more appealling visually. 3. The manmade stuff I think you've overdone the minimalism. Instead of using 2 nearly identical textures I think you'd be better off with something a little different, possibly with some decals to spice it up. You don't have to go crazy, but I find myself wanting more variety in the manmade sections.
Other than that I think you're in good shape. I won't comment on the layout because theres already enough people doing that.
I could make the entire center high ground man-made, because that would be the only solution to separate it from its natural setting, otherwise it has to be the way it is. I can experiment with this though.
I also am in the middle of implementing man-made aesthetics right now, so that will be coming soon!
On April 18 2012 22:49 CaptainCrush wrote: I think there is just waaaaayyyy too much ground in the middle, there arent really even any bases there so the map looks needlessly large to me. I think the aesthetics are top notch though!
I plan to add a 3rd gas to the center bases to make them worth more. The middle is actually not as large as it appears to be. It's a good size for mid/late-game encounters.
Is that needed? to me it feels like the center bases are some you take when you've got an advantage to help you finish off your opponent, or if you got a contain or a doing a very tempo based strategy like bio. And if your really lategame and you got the advantage, you can be 5-4 bases because your army and position is stronger than your opponent.
There is the same kind of center in Antiga, but on this map the other bases are easier to get than Antiga.
It seems like the center is easy to defend if you control the highground, but its not hard to get a fourth for the other player though, as there is plenty of options.
I feel the fourth is too easy to take, otherwise I like the potential the center bases have, where long range units can harrass from the center, so it's hard to hold. Putting 3 gasses there though? I have no idea how that would affect balance.
Nice work, sir! You know what the melting snow in the aesthetics really remind me of? The snow tileset in warcraft 2 where all the buildings had melting snow on them. I hope HOTS has snow-covered hatcheries.
On April 27 2012 07:51 TheFish7 wrote: Nice work, sir! You know what the melting snow in the aesthetics really remind me of? The snow tileset in warcraft 2 where all the buildings had melting snow on them. I hope HOTS has snow-covered hatcheries.
Just played it on map of the day. Looks pretty nice. Just wanted to let you know that there's a bug -- you can't place one of your gas extractor buildings on one of the vespene patches. I was playing as protoss, if that make any difference.
I truly like the aesthetics. A suggestion wodul be to have the middle high ground stand out some by adding more snow and rock to it.
The CW bases seems quite safe and close to one another, but on the other hand there are plenty of attack paths. I think the middle looks booring, unless you like to see big armies crashing on open plain ground. I see that happen a lot because of the strong position right above the forward third. I would make the middle a bit more narrow and the paths 3 and 9 wider, to promote army movement.
This is a very prolonged update but I am currently investigating why the gas geyser is still not working. Will post updates soon. On a side note, the reason I bring up this map again is because it has been seen as a big potential for a future ladder season. I know public polls mean nothing, but I thought it would also be nice to bring the map forward for people to see it up close and personal if they wish.
Also i'm not entirely sure if it's still published atm, so I will see about that as well.
Imo the 4th on this map is too easy -- or automatic is more like -- with the 5th base options being very aggressive places to try and hold because of the much increased proximity to the enemy's "easy" bases. That said, it is a perfectly viable standardish map at least to try out, and the rotation of maps on ladder could be much faster than it has been so far. So while I don't think this is a great map for competitive play, it is suitable for the sake of variety at the very least. The aesthetics are a point for variety as well. ^^
Have you been in communication with "official" channels? At the very least this map could replace one of the tiresome 4player holdovers from prior seasons, and most players would be willing not to veto it I think, for a couple seasons.
To be clear, there are probably better maps that could go in ladder (no offense) but I'll take whatever increased ladder turnover I can get.
The people denying that this is similar to Bel'shir are bonkers, it is indeed very similar. But there's nothing wrong with that. It's basically if you took bel'shir, fixed its main issue by finally putting a damn ramp on the main (lol) and made the middle chasm a highground with ramps instead. The only other difference is the 2 expansions closest to the middle have their backs against that middle highground instead of being against the main. We got a better, more playable map out of it so I think there's nothing to criticize here.
On July 25 2012 22:24 Aunvilgod wrote: Do you really need 3 types of green grass? You could use another manmade texture to add variety to the manmade parts of the map.
1 grass texture wouldn't give the "spring" feeling with frozen grass and normal grass ^^
On July 25 2012 22:24 Aunvilgod wrote: Do you really need 3 types of green grass? You could use another manmade texture to add variety to the manmade parts of the map.
1 grass texture wouldn't give the "spring" feeling with frozen grass and normal grass ^^
I see, I need to read the whole OP.
Still, I wonder if the same effect couldn´t be accomplished with just two textures or even just one while adding Meinhoff White Sand with low intensity.
Looking at it without seeing any games on it, a idea might be to put in some rocks between the natural and the third expansion also i'd narrow the path to the third to allow the rocks. Might stop some of these greedy zerg 3 base openings that have become so common place.
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In the near future I'm going to try adding some man-made decorations, since the man-made areas look a little bland right now, but man-made aesthetics are not my cup of tea 
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