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Active: 9524 users

[M] 6m Devolution by Barrin

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 Next All
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-07 14:28:34
March 20 2012 16:44 GMT
#1
--- Nuked ---
Sea_Food
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Finland1612 Posts
March 20 2012 17:04 GMT
#2
Build FREE bunker in the backdoor gasless expansion. Another one in the highground -> gg.

Also the natural seems to be kinda far from the main ramp meaning spine placement will be hard as I dont think they can cover both mineral line, and entrance to main as they should be able on every map in my opinion.

Otherwise seems like a cool map.
Ragoo
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany2773 Posts
March 20 2012 17:43 GMT
#3
Let the madness begin!

Cool map, altho some parts look awkward aesthetically as far as I can tell from the overview.
Obviously can't comment on balance lol
Member of TPW mapmaking team/// twitter.com/Ragoo_ /// "goody represents border between explainable reason and supernatural" Cloud
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-20 17:50:42
March 20 2012 17:50 GMT
#4
--- Nuked ---
dudecrush
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada418 Posts
March 20 2012 18:07 GMT
#5
I watched Danosaur vs xGKingmafia and it was good. This map is great. I love how you actually have to have bases.
Sea_Food
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Finland1612 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-20 18:21:30
March 20 2012 18:20 GMT
#6
On March 21 2012 02:50 Barrin wrote:
That bunker strategy is just as viable in say Shattered Temple, Metalopolis (and many other maps), why never see it there?


Was there somekind of misunderstanding?
In your map this happens
[image loading]
I cant see how something like that is possible on the other maps.

Or now that i think of it the 1st bunker is not even necerssary, as it can be just 1 or 2 marines there.
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-20 18:52:06
March 20 2012 18:51 GMT
#7
--- Nuked ---
OldManSenex
Profile Joined June 2011
United States130 Posts
March 20 2012 19:30 GMT
#8
That bunker positioning is clever, but I don't think it will end up being too scary because the lower level can't reinforce the upper. The reason 2 punker pushes like that are scary on maps like Shakuras Plateau is because if the zerg commits to breaking the upper bunker, succeeds, but takes a lot of damage, the Terran can easily move his units from the lowground to the top. On this map if the zerg managed to kill the top bunker the pressure's pretty much over.

Also, having your natural denied on this map is not the worst thing ever for the zerg, because the 3rd is close and easy enough to take that it's only a little more dangerous than the natural. Obviously you'd have to watch out for a second bunker or cannon rush denying that base as well, but so long as you get the cancel on your natural it's not the worst position ever to be in.
For FRB shoutcasts and analysis check out www.youtube.com/wiseoldsenex
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
March 20 2012 20:18 GMT
#9
To get enough marines to make that bunker attack as strong as possible, you're nearly going "all in" because of how much money you're spending on not expanding. Everything costs a lot more in 6m. It's a really bad attack anyway. The zerg player could build only drones and kill that second bunker stopping the marines from getting in. Worst case they make a spine..?

Anyway I'm glad this map thread is finally up so I can link people to it!

I've been noticing problems with PvZ. The rocks at the third are usually dead by the time you get there so it's open and scary, usually requiring precious cannons. Walling the natural and going through the rocks can be very powerful but it's susceptible to two pronged attacks or just bouncing back and forth. I think that might be the best option though. However, mutalisks are an absolute nightmare in that scenario because the natural is so exposed, and the flock numbers quickly overwhelm cannons at your wallin, your main, your corner expo, your corner walloff, etc etc. Obviously we need more testing! But it's pretty hard at the moment.

I have to send you some replays and watch all those you posted, very excited. ;D
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
Thaniri
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1264 Posts
March 20 2012 20:35 GMT
#10
The second, third, and fourth bases are pretty easy to cut out with tanks. I only played 1 master v 1 master TvT, but I kind of outclassed him a lot. He then played zerg vs me, and I could not do anything to him. He got 4 bases SAFELY by the time of my all-in siege tank timing.

I wish I had more people close to my level to play against. The 7m channel seems to be full of masters already in a game or a bunch of noobs.
Natespank
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada449 Posts
March 20 2012 21:46 GMT
#11
First impressions:

1- awesome awesome awesome


critique:
2- gas steals.

Specifically, in PvP, a protoss who gas steals and follows up with a 4 gate would be terrifying, or a terran gas stealing a protoss and then 5rax marine rushing him. The only way to defend such strategies is to use gas units.

Might be fine, just saying, it's the first thing that comes to mind for me
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-20 22:59:12
March 20 2012 22:57 GMT
#12
On March 21 2012 06:46 Natespank wrote:
First impressions:

1- awesome awesome awesome


critique:
2- gas steals.

Specifically, in PvP, a protoss who gas steals and follows up with a 4 gate would be terrifying, or a terran gas stealing a protoss and then 5rax marine rushing him. The only way to defend such strategies is to use gas units.

Might be fine, just saying, it's the first thing that comes to mind for me


3 gate is the max amount of production you can do on 1 base. I'm not sure what the best response would be for a gas steal, but I have a feeling it might be expand with cannons. Really you shouldn't let it happen because it's so important.

Terran couldn't steal effectively because you can kill the scv as it builds, but it'd be worth testing as a cheese option. You should go try it out! So many things to check. ;D

Oh, and Barrin, the version of 6m1hyg Devolution up now has a doodad malfunction at the natural in the bottom left. There's a giant floating mar sara dead tree. It's spooky! And also distracting.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
TheFish7
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States2824 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-21 00:44:39
March 20 2012 22:59 GMT
#13
Is this the start of a new trend? are we all going to have to learn build orders for 6 min bases? XD

I don't think a 4 gate or a 5rax build is possible with that many mineral patches. (?)

There might be issues with this setup, but its not going to be due to strategies we have seen already. Thats why this is exciting to me; new gameplay.

EDIT: I have been playing/obsing this for the last couple of hours. this could be totally revolutionary...
~ ~ <°)))><~ ~ ~
clever_us
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States329 Posts
March 20 2012 23:27 GMT
#14
YES. happy to see some high level replays being posted too. I imagine if we could get Husky or Day[9] to cast a couple of these it would be a huge boost int the popularity of this idea
glhf <3
See.Blue
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2673 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-20 23:40:28
March 20 2012 23:40 GMT
#15
As someone who read your whole monograph earlier and was skeptical anything would come of it, in spite of its merit, I'm now 100% sold. This literally makes for a whole new game in a way thats so much better than I had ever thought. I really think you've hit on something great, I can't wait to see where this goes
emc
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3088 Posts
March 20 2012 23:41 GMT
#16
On March 21 2012 07:57 EatThePath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2012 06:46 Natespank wrote:
First impressions:

1- awesome awesome awesome


critique:
2- gas steals.

Specifically, in PvP, a protoss who gas steals and follows up with a 4 gate would be terrifying, or a terran gas stealing a protoss and then 5rax marine rushing him. The only way to defend such strategies is to use gas units.

Might be fine, just saying, it's the first thing that comes to mind for me


3 gate is the max amount of production you can do on 1 base. I'm not sure what the best response would be for a gas steal, but I have a feeling it might be expand with cannons. Really you shouldn't let it happen because it's so important.

Terran couldn't steal effectively because you can kill the scv as it builds, but it'd be worth testing as a cheese option. You should go try it out! So many things to check. ;D

Oh, and Barrin, the version of 6m1hyg Devolution up now has a doodad malfunction at the natural in the bottom left. There's a giant floating mar sara dead tree. It's spooky! And also distracting.


I'm going to gas steal every game as zerg, see how fun it is
RumbleBadger
Profile Joined July 2011
322 Posts
March 20 2012 23:47 GMT
#17
When it comes to 6m/1hyg maps in general I really like the technically capabilities that are opened up. With a lot more bases, a lot more interesting pathing and more dynamic gameplay can be created. I think you were very right with your analysis of how 8m/2g is killing sc2 creativity.

Great job on that analysis and also this map looks very fun too. I'll have to play it to really get a feel for it though.
Games before dames.
RoarMan
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada745 Posts
March 20 2012 23:56 GMT
#18
There are a lot of chokes in this map, I think that'd be a huge balancing issue.
All the pros got dat Ichie.
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3304 Posts
March 21 2012 00:04 GMT
#19
I thought you were advocating for 6m/2g? 8m may be replaceable in Starcraft II, but 2g is essential to pretty much everything in the development of SCII up to this point. And honestly, 2g generates a lot of interesting strategy that wasn't present in brood war. In your other article you were advocating for 7m/2g shifting towards 6m/2g to reduce the suddenness of transition, and I'm all in favor, but a sudden jump to 6m/1g just won't happen (and maybe shouldn't). Pro players won't do such a drastic change just to play in tournaments that won't switch to them, and tournaments won't switch and alienate all their players that practiced for 8m/2g. A tournament might consider announcing 7m/2g beforehand and then playing on it (a 12.5% reduction in minerals), maybe transitioning to 6m/2g later (a 25% reduction in minerals), but I don't see any transition to 1g (a 50% reduction in gas!) in the near future.

tl;dr:
IMHO, 7m2g and/or 6m2g are both a viable change in the future and a good change in the future. 7m1g or 6m1g are both not viable and not necessarily good for the game. All the same, good luck to you, Barrin, as I'm certain you know more about map-making than me.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2142 Posts
March 21 2012 00:20 GMT
#20
On March 21 2012 09:04 ChristianS wrote:
I thought you were advocating for 6m/2g? 8m may be replaceable in Starcraft II, but 2g is essential to pretty much everything in the development of SCII up to this point. And honestly, 2g generates a lot of interesting strategy that wasn't present in brood war. In your other article you were advocating for 7m/2g shifting towards 6m/2g to reduce the suddenness of transition, and I'm all in favor, but a sudden jump to 6m/1g just won't happen (and maybe shouldn't). Pro players won't do such a drastic change just to play in tournaments that won't switch to them, and tournaments won't switch and alienate all their players that practiced for 8m/2g. A tournament might consider announcing 7m/2g beforehand and then playing on it (a 12.5% reduction in minerals), maybe transitioning to 6m/2g later (a 25% reduction in minerals), but I don't see any transition to 1g (a 50% reduction in gas!) in the near future.

tl;dr:
IMHO, 7m2g and/or 6m2g are both a viable change in the future and a good change in the future. 7m1g or 6m1g are both not viable and not necessarily good for the game. All the same, good luck to you, Barrin, as I'm certain you know more about map-making than me.


I'm pretty sure on the 1g maps it's a high yield gas (6 gas per trip), creating a 25% reduction in gas which is exactly proportional to the removal of 2 mineral patches.
vibeo gane,
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