Lunar Colony is my first map for team TPW! I intended for the layout to not favor any one style over another. One of the main features is a late game backdoor into the main. Once the third is mined out it opens up the main and lets players more easily reinforce their far bases. If the player is still on one base they can sent extra workers to distance mine down the ramp from 5 patches, or even put down a macro hatch/cc. There are losb preventing warp-ins through the backdoor. Another key feature of this map is the central high grounds. It is necessary to hold them to protect the aggresive fourth base and sixth base. The central XWT on this map helps to encourage lategame fighting across the central divide. Other things to note are that the outer walls aren't pathable and help strengthen air play. The wall around the natural has gaps to prevent mutas and banshees from over abusing the wall.
So I take it that you can't get past the mineralwall at the third until it's mined out. An interesting feature for sure, but could you provide a little more detail about specifically what you mad in mind for it?
Congratulations to your first map under the TPW banner!
I like the theme alot, i think you pulled it off nicely, it really got that lunar look. I also like the layout, it's very interesting. However i would rather see it without the watchtower, i do think that it might be a bit powerful in TvT. Another thing i wanna point out is the backdoor into the main, i like it, it's something new. I might be a bit biased on this point tho, since im currently working on something similar myself.
I would love if TPW could make some pro matches happen on this map!
On February 06 2012 08:49 DYEAlabaster wrote: So I take it that you can't get past the mineralwall at the third until it's mined out. An interesting feature for sure, but could you provide a little more detail about specifically what you mad in mind for it?
I am also interested what you had in mind, because like DYEAlabaster said, it's an interesting feature and I can see multiple purposes... but I'm more interested in it's intended purpose.
Either way, you've done a fine job of creating a unique 1v1 map. I had this reply written for another thread (which I'm not sure if I actually posted or not...) about how eventually people will stop using the Bel'Shir Beach model for 1v1 maps because of the cycle of creativity... and now you have done it!
@IveReturned Thats what I was aiming for Also I accidently changed that doodad to "no parking" while making the map and it gave me a few laughs so I left it in. Its an easy fix if people don't like it.
@DYWAlabaster & hoby2000 I intend for it to be a late game backdoor used for opening up the main and making it easier to reinforce the far bases. Early game it can also be used for a little extra income if you don't expand and also have your main over-saturated. Using it early also makes it mine out faster which can help late game.
@Mieszko Thats a good point about the tower. When making the layout I tried multiple other configurations each having two towers. Unfortunately they all gave way too much vision. So at this point its either one tower in the middle or no towers. I think the benefit it gives to scouting early game pushes is too important to remove it. Testing will tell. Good luck with your map!
@robih Thanks! I tried to counteract some of the chokiness by providing multiple close flank routes to some of the strong positions. The times I've played on it so far haven't seemed to bad. But if testing comes up differently I can widen a few of the paths pretty easily.
I really like the map. I'm unsure about the relevance of the mineral blocked back door given the amount of time it takes to mine it out. It is an interesting idea. I suppose testing is required. As a Zerg player I find that the chokes are not too small. I am not a fan of the lighting. Colors are really muted.
Looks great, only area I can see improving aesthetics-wise is perhaps making it a little more 'cratery' on the inside as it seems almost entirely flat at the moment.
From a gameplay perspective there are a few potential problem areas I can think of..
- The overly large air space around the map seen in the overview (not sure if it translates in-game, its easily fixed though) - The overly convenient third esp. compared to the size of the map. I can't see many games being played out with 2 base all-ins because of how close and easy to defend the third is, and while its always good to promote macro games it might be too much so like was the case with Calm Before The Storm. - The sheer significance of high ground + the lack of joint high ground. This I think will mean players will turtle more (perhaps too much) on their own high ground since trying to cross means fighting on the low ground vs the opponent's own high ground army. - The ability for a terran to take control of your half of the map by sieging your high ground - The high number of ramps might make it difficult to predict enemy movement and position yourself well against an incoming army, luck might play more of a part unless players are constantly scouting or covering all the paths leading to their army and bases.
These are just some thoughts though, great job overall, I'm really liking whats coming out of TPW lately as its so different to what I'm used to seeing .
This is a very very cool map. My one concern is the watch tower; I feel like it's current spot would play out very awkward in the late game (when armies want to sit at watch towers and control their expos). Having not seen any late game examples, though, I can't say that with any certainty. I would love to see some games.
Also, on every other map I have seen the mineral-ramp block used, it's felt like something of a gimmick, but here I feel it really works. It makes expo progression feel much more natural. I love this layout.
I updated the lighting to remove the washed out look. There is more color and it is overall slightly brighter now. New pictures are in the extra pics section.
I'm unsure about the relevance of the mineral blocked back door given the amount of time it takes to mine it out.
It shouldn't be very relevent at any point in the game. My intention with this mineral block was to add in a new and unused feature while not making it an overarching gimmick of the map. Hopefully the colors look better now
Great colorway! I'd like lighting to be a little brighter though, a little more stark and less 09h00 if you get my drift. Think moon landing!
I tried to redo the lighting with this post in mind!
Looks great, only area I can see improving aesthetics-wise is perhaps making it a little more 'cratery' on the inside as it seems almost entirely flat at the moment.
From a gameplay perspective there are a few potential problem areas I can think of..
- The overly large air space around the map seen in the overview (not sure if it translates in-game, its easily fixed though) - The overly convenient third esp. compared to the size of the map. I can't see many games being played out with 2 base all-ins because of how close and easy to defend the third is, and while its always good to promote macro games it might be too much so like was the case with Calm Before The Storm. - The sheer significance of high ground + the lack of joint high ground. This I think will mean players will turtle more (perhaps too much) on their own high ground since trying to cross means fighting on the low ground vs the opponent's own high ground army. - The ability for a terran to take control of your half of the map by sieging your high ground - The high number of ramps might make it difficult to predict enemy movement and position yourself well against an incoming army, luck might play more of a part unless players are constantly scouting or covering all the paths leading to their army and bases.
These are just some thoughts though, great job overall, I'm really liking whats coming out of TPW lately as its so different to what I'm used to seeing .
The playable borders for this map are right up against the edges of the walls. If you check out the analyzer pic I believe it only shows the playable area. Regarding the third I think that the nat-to-nat distance counteracts how close the third is to the natural. The XWT helps to prevent turtling in this case by giving the attacking player vision up the ramp. Also with all the attack paths I think it would be difficult for terran to complete camp the middle divide without spreading themselves too thin. The large number of ramps and attack paths is my favorite style of map, I think it gives the more skilled player a larger advantage.
It's actually already quite open as it should be, but I would consider yet increasing the openness of the chokes at the far top left and far bottom right bases.
I actually reduced their size before posting because I thought that the base was less interesting when the ramp and choke are the same size. I'll look into this more!
Also, on every other map I have seen the mineral-ramp block used, it's felt like something of a gimmick, but here I feel it really works. It makes expo progression feel much more natural. I love this layout.
I am also concerned about the effects the tower will have on lategame. On one hand I like that it reduces the power of turtling on the highgrounds, but I don't like that it completely negates the ramps. I'm working on getting more testing soon.
Great colorway! I'd like lighting to be a little brighter though, a little more stark and less 09h00 if you get my drift. Think moon landing!
I tried to redo the lighting with this post in mind!
reduce ambient lighting imo, without an atmosphere like earth to reflect light around, a moon planet would have very dark shadows: http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2006/03jan_moonshadows/ (look at the part that begins "dark shadows"). less ambient light would create a harsher contrast between the light areas and the shadows like you see in photos of the moon landing.
reduce ambient lighting imo, without an atmosphere like earth to reflect light around, a moon planet would have very dark shadows: http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2006/03jan_moonshadows/ (look at the part that begins "dark shadows"). less ambient light would create a harsher contrast between the light areas and the shadows like you see in photos of the moon landing.
(though too dark might hamper gameplay)
I tried doing something like that but really bright areas and dark areas not only hurts the eyes but doesn't really look that good in my opinion. More contrast in lighting also changes what the textures look like in a less than satisfactory way. I see where you are going, and I agree that it would look really cool in vanity pictures, but it isn't very good when playing the game.
I love the look of this map a lot. From the lunar sand to the "bridge" look. So good.
The only random suggestion I can come up with would be I dislike the placement of the 4th at the moment. It feels like it's just shoved in there kind of. I'm almost wondering what it'd be like if you just moved the corner bases (SE and NW corner bases) closer to the center and then you could just get rid of the base that is the current 4th right now.
Wow, I love it. Tons of options for flanks, without making it a big blob of open space, or a choke-fest. Love all the elevated paths and the mineral blocking 3rd - really nice work all around. I'd love to play here.
Looks so simple at first glance but its really not. I will have to give this one a shot! I really like the minerals at the bottom of the ramp. Can you not pass them at all until they have been mined?
Looks interesting, I don't think I've ever seen a map with an expanding pattern like this. Not so sure though if I like that backdoor. It's either good and bad for Terran. They get a free inbase mineral only base but can get MULEs stuck on the wrong side. Nevertheless I hope this'll be played in some tournament so we can see how all this works out.
The only random suggestion I can come up with would be I dislike the placement of the 4th at the moment. It feels like it's just shoved in there kind of. I'm almost wondering what it'd be like if you just moved the corner bases (SE and NW corner bases) closer to the center and then you could just get rid of the base that is the current 4th right now.
That is an interesting idea. But there are a few reasons I don't think it would work out very well in terms of flow. First off is the air space. In this case I tried to put the outer two bases as close to the edge as possible to prevent too much late-drop/muta/prism play on those bases. The main/natural/third already have a lot of air space around them and I don't really like maps where every base has a large gap behind it. Secondly is that the central base is what I would consider the second minor gimmick of the map because it is so close to the cliff edge, in-fact there isn't any space behind the minerals. In order to defend it from ranged units the player must take the position behind the base. In this case I think that only a terran player would want it as a fourth base because tanks can help them defend the cliff without moving their army to far from their other bases.
M-M-M-M-MacroCCmadness
A macro nexus would be awsome XD
Looks interesting, I don't think I've ever seen a map with an expanding pattern like this. Not so sure though if I like that backdoor. It's either good and bad for Terran. They get a free inbase mineral only base but can get MULEs stuck on the wrong side. Nevertheless I hope this'll be played in some tournament so we can see how all this works out.
One thing to consider with the backdoor and mining from it is that the workers are very vulnerable. Imagine one or two infestors/templar/hellions run up and kill everythink mining there (might need a scan for hellions). The only time a player would mine from it is when they don't have the third which lets a few units run up take some shots and move back without losing anything. Also it will mine out the minerals faster and open up the path earlier in the game for counters. In terms of mules the player will just have to manually land them on the proper side if they want to take advantage of it.
On February 09 2012 18:03 Zenoali wrote: Would Blink Stalker b able to get thru the mineral wall ramp? I LOVE the look of map!
There are LoS blockers there, so you'd need an observer or some other flying unit to be able to blink there, so it is less advantageous compared to blinking across the normal main cliff as you would be on lowground.
There's already a Blizzard map by the name of Lunar Colony V (currently active in 2v2 ladder). Maybe it's worth reconsidering your map's name ?
I didn't know that. Unfortunately I've already tried a few names that I liked and they were already taken. So I think I want to stick with this one. At least there is still a small difference in the name. : (
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/P8VyM.jpg)
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Also I accidently changed that doodad to "no parking" while making the map and it gave me a few laughs so I left it in. Its an easy fix if people don't like it.
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