• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:36
CEST 16:36
KST 23:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed14Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll6Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Who will win EWC 2025? The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion Help: rep cant save ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
CSL Xiamen International Invitational Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2025!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 830 users

[D] F.L.A.S.H. rating

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
Stips
Profile Joined January 2012
Germany57 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-25 08:36:51
January 24 2012 19:42 GMT
#1
I’m still a newbie in mapmaking and I’m far away of making good maps. Therefore I’m not in the right position to give anyone any advice. But I thought about an issue in mapmaking and I really want to hear your opinion about it. Perhaps this has already been discussed – then forget about it.
Since I haven’t found a catchy name up to now, I will call it “Front Line Aspect and Smart Harrassement” rating (= FLASH rating) cause it sounds quite nice

What am I talking about?
I think FLASH is something which is part of the “Circling Syndrome” as well as “Fortress Syndrome”. “FLASH” describes the fact, that the defensive player always has a positional disadvantage, because he has to move his army to the area of the fight. I will give you an example what I mean:
This is probably the best position for your units: melee units in the front, range units behind - every unit can attack:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Now imagine that player blue attacks an expansion of player red. Player red is like “holy crap, I have to defend” -> move attack towards the enemies army. Unfortunately player red is protoss, and as we all know stalkers are faster than zealots. This is what a fight would probably look like in the whorst case
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

It’s clear, that red has a lower dps than blue.
To sum it up: The attacking player quite often has a positional advantage, if – and this is very important – he forces the defensive player to move his army to the place of fight.

Why is this important in mapmaking?
This is quite important, because a lot of fights go down near expansions. When I think about pro-games and noob-games it is pretty much the same: In the early- and mid-game most of the fights take place at expansion. Usually it lasts 25-35 minutes until there are some fights in the middle of the map. Therefore imo expansion placement is the way to rule this effect.
Don’t get me wrong. I don’t want to eliminate the positional “dance”. Honestly I think this is an important part of the game and makes game interesting to watch. I only want to suggest a new rating system that can be posted in the map information to visualize this effect: the FLASH rating

What is the FLASH rating?
The FLASH rating is just a way to compare various maps concerning FLASH. It shows the number of attacking paths in contrast to the number of expansion you have. Sounds complicated (as my English is bad) but it is in fact really easy to evaluate. Example:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


I will give you some examples:
I suggest:
Small paths, destructible rocks: 0,5
Normal paths, small ramp to main base: 1
Xel’Naga Caverns would have a FLASH rate of 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 when you use the most common way of expand.
(I know there is a destructible rock, but I haven’t seen a single game where it was destroyed to attack the Natural from the side. But there could be a 1 / 2,5 / 3 / 4 rate as well.)
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Now think of the last games you saw or played on The Shattered Temple. In my opinion most of the games took place in the area in the middle (besides drops, wharp ins…). Why? Well, you can see that the FLASH rate is something like: 1 / 1 / 2 / 2,5 / 3 which is low. (I’m sorry for the bad quality, but I edited the picture two times and jpg-compression ruined it…)
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

One more example: Arid Plateau. It’s nearly the same as Xel’Naga Caverns but I put all numbers and arrows together in one pic. Perhaps this is clearer for some persons:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


What is a good FLASH rating?
Actually I think a base – nat rating of 1/1 or 1/1,5 is good. Then it’s very map specific. Makro maps something like: 1/1/2/2/3 and fast maps perhaps around 1/1,5/2/3/4/4. But, yeah, let’s discuss

Problems
I think the FLASH rating is a good tool to give a short overview about the expansions and map style. BUT the distance between the paths is also a big deal (see “fortress syndrome”). The Shattered Temple and Antiga Shipyard would have nearly the same FLASH rate, but a 3rd expansion on Antiga is way more difficult to defend then on Shattered. In addition to this the FLASH rate differs when there are various ways to expand (like Arid Plateau)

Use
I think it could be quite useful to add the FLASH rate to a map description. Just like
Map Size: 136x136
XWT: 4
FLASH: 1/1/2/3,5/4

Discussion
What do you think?
Useless? Useful?
...?

// EDIT: what about FLAX rating (Front Line And eXpansion rating)? I don't want to hurt anyones feeling due to I used the name of a very pro-gamer...
Gyro_SC2
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada540 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-24 19:54:04
January 24 2012 19:52 GMT
#2
please dont use the word flash, its already use for the best player of starcraft. too confusing please change.
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-24 20:16:46
January 24 2012 20:12 GMT
#3
Is it bad that I searched for what maps Flash had the best rating on? (Fortress has a pretty high Flash rating at 8-1).
(Eye of the Storm tops that with 11-1; amazing!)
(Grand Line SE also has a Flash rating of 11-1. I guess this game is pretty easy actually.)

Seriously though, OP should pick a less confusing name, such as the Boxer rating or the Jaedong rating.
May the BeSt man win.
TibblesEvilCat
Profile Joined March 2010
United Kingdom766 Posts
January 24 2012 20:34 GMT
#4
thank you, i try and use this method of looking at map to de termine problems that could arrise with maps i make.
Live Fast Die Young :D
BadgKat
Profile Joined June 2011
United States156 Posts
January 24 2012 20:43 GMT
#5
It seems like a decent way to look at maps. Though I think there's a lot more to attack paths. Surface area at the back of the main, how close the main is to the third etc. Not all attacks are deathball at the front. And you forgot about the secret path on xel naga. Or would that not qualify as an attack path?
Alacast
Profile Joined December 2011
United States205 Posts
January 24 2012 20:56 GMT
#6
I think it's an interesting way to look at maps from a strategy point of view, but as far as classification, there are too many variables that you haven't addressed here: distance b/w bases, distance b/w attack paths, rush distance, width of chokes, xel'naga tower coverage, drop play, air play, differential expansion choices, etc.

It's a cool shorthand though, so it can help people make correct decisions more quickly.
Let us not rail about justice as long as we have arms and the freedom to use them. -Frank Herbert
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
January 24 2012 22:07 GMT
#7
haha i actually thought this thread is about a map where you play a few challenges and then you wil get a rating on how many times you have to improve to be as good as flash. Really neat name though i like it.

anyway if someone just move click then of course getting someone to move is a good move, but its not really hard to make stalkers stay behind zealots if you reposition. (its basically 1 simple click, that doesn't have to happen while the opponent is attacking) So more a problem of the player and not the map maker.

In general the defender will have the advantage especially if aoes are involved. Bringing them out of position by attacking somewhere else just decreases this advantage, but only because they let it happen, due to bad scouting or being lazy. But yes the map can make a repositioning of the opponent, that is attacking, easier to scout as it takes a longer time to do so (daybreak for example)
AdrianHealey
Profile Joined January 2011
Belgium480 Posts
January 24 2012 23:21 GMT
#8
Interesting concept. Thanks for analyzing it.
I love.
iGrok
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5142 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-24 23:31:18
January 24 2012 23:23 GMT
#9
The name F.L.A.S.H. is dumb.
+ Show Spoiler +
The fact that you used Lee God Ho's name to describe an issue that only happens when you have your entire army on 1 hotkey makes me physically angry.


Also this is a scouting and unit control issue far more than a mapmaking.

In general, you're making something out of nothing. If you really want me to deconstruct it I will, but I don't really see the need.
MOTM | Stim.tv | TL Mafia | Fantasy Fighting! | SNSD
Chargelot
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
2275 Posts
January 24 2012 23:30 GMT
#10
You guys do understand that Flash borrowed his name from the preexisting word, and that the word "flash" does in fact exist in other contexts, right?
if (post == "stupid") { document.getElementById('post').style.display = 'none'; }
iGrok
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5142 Posts
January 24 2012 23:31 GMT
#11
On January 25 2012 08:30 Chargelot wrote:
You guys do understand that Flash borrowed his name from the preexisting word, and that the word "flash" does in fact exist in other contexts, right?

Lies and Blasphemy.
MOTM | Stim.tv | TL Mafia | Fantasy Fighting! | SNSD
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
January 24 2012 23:39 GMT
#12
On January 25 2012 08:30 Chargelot wrote:
You guys do understand that Flash borrowed his name from the preexisting word, and that the word "flash" does in fact exist in other contexts, right?

Oh yeah? Then what does "Jaedong" mean? QED man, QED.
May the BeSt man win.
Ragoo
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany2773 Posts
January 25 2012 00:07 GMT
#13
So how do I get the best FLASH rating?! Must have!!
Member of TPW mapmaking team/// twitter.com/Ragoo_ /// "goody represents border between explainable reason and supernatural" Cloud
Koagel
Profile Joined October 2010
Austria167 Posts
January 25 2012 00:12 GMT
#14
Why exactly do you believe that the simplification such a rating implies would be helpful to mappers or players? Since you are practically counting the frontlines a player with a certain base size would have to defend, why don't you leave it at that, but specify that this rating is to be used to assess the troubles a defending player might have because he might find himself in a pincer, with ranged units at front, or something like that?
SirKibbleX
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States479 Posts
January 25 2012 00:16 GMT
#15
Stuff like this is inevitably gonna happen when you base a name off the greatest player the game has ever seen. How about the JORDAN rating for basketball surfaces or the GRETZKY rating for ice quality?
Praemonitus, Praemunitus.
iGrok
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5142 Posts
January 25 2012 01:32 GMT
#16
On January 25 2012 09:16 SirKibbleX wrote:
Stuff like this is inevitably gonna happen when you base a name off the greatest player the game has ever seen. How about the JORDAN rating for basketball surfaces or the GRETZKY rating for ice quality?

Its not even that. This is a useless and meaningless metric.
MOTM | Stim.tv | TL Mafia | Fantasy Fighting! | SNSD
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
January 25 2012 01:36 GMT
#17
Liquid Gold. This thread's responses have definitely lived up to my expectations. :D
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
RumbleBadger
Profile Joined July 2011
322 Posts
January 25 2012 06:14 GMT
#18
This is exactly how I initially evaluate any expansion paths I make on maps. Then I start to go into stuff like air harass and drop harass and ranges and choke point width. This "FLASH" rating (I also would prefer a different name, even something simple like CPB for chokes per base) is essentially the basic way to look at map vulnerability.

It's very useful for learning the basics of map-making and also for establishing a standard for maps. I similarly think the standard is something like 1/1/2/3/4/4 for up to six bases. Although I think that depending on the choke sizes this is very much subject to change. A four base with two chokes can be fine if the chokes are large enough, but I personally think 3 is the way to go. Also I think 1.5 at the nat is fine, also. Even a 2.5 third isn't bad, it just has to be executed well.

For specific reasoning behind # of chokes per base:
+ Show Spoiler +
For the main obvious one choke is a necessity. Some people like to play around with 1.5, but people hated the old Shakuras because of that, so I don't know if it's viable.
For two one choke at the nat is necessary for early defense, although like I said 1.5 isn't bad because rocks aren't going to break too fast.
For three is where it gets tricky. I prefer a macro style of map, so I think introducing one new choke is fine. Three if they are small and the bases limit other forms of harassment (see Cloud Kingdom).
For four bases another choke is fine (similar reasoning, but again a more debatable number).
For five bases four chokes is good. Going beyond four chokes really hurts toss and terran due to their more limited army mobility (especially toss).
For six bases the same four chokes should be kept as late game you don't want the players worrying over whether they can hold the expansion. They need (imo) to be able to get the expansion and use the income to keep producing their giant, awesome, clashing armies. Personally I just think the gameplay is best that way, although a well-placed more central expansion can create some fun dynamics with economy wars.

Well, that's my thoughts. Feel free to tear them apart.
Games before dames.
tpmraven
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States833 Posts
January 25 2012 06:34 GMT
#19
personaly i like this, but the reason i came to this thread was because i thought this was a custom game that would rate you based on mini games.
(⌐■_■) Like a boss
Stips
Profile Joined January 2012
Germany57 Posts
January 25 2012 08:35 GMT
#20
lol, I have to admit that I haven't known the player Flash yet *shame on me* :D If I would have known that, I would absolutely choose another name (perhaps GRUBBY rating^^). But you can't negate that it is a catchy name whatsoever :D

allright... what about FLAX rating (Front Line And eXpansion rating)?

OT: another Flash:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
13:00
King of the Hill Weekly #218
CranKy Ducklings178
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 223
SpeCial 176
mcanning 83
mouzHeroMarine 29
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 42046
Sea 3319
Larva 1979
EffOrt 1814
firebathero 1325
Stork 749
Mini 446
Light 363
Snow 362
Zeus 216
[ Show more ]
PianO 128
ToSsGirL 92
Sharp 80
Hyun 75
TY 72
sSak 68
Backho 60
sas.Sziky 52
Rush 33
Sacsri 27
GoRush 25
scan(afreeca) 22
Yoon 22
Terrorterran 17
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
IntoTheRainbow 11
Noble 11
SilentControl 9
Shine 7
Hm[arnc] 6
Dota 2
Gorgc10783
singsing3073
qojqva915
syndereN293
Counter-Strike
sgares589
byalli273
markeloff97
edward25
Other Games
hiko1523
B2W.Neo1449
Lowko472
DeMusliM415
Fuzer 257
KnowMe62
QueenE59
Mew2King53
Trikslyr31
Pyrionflax20
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2546
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 12
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota248
League of Legends
• Nemesis4936
• Jankos1427
Upcoming Events
WardiTV European League
1h 25m
Fjant vs Babymarine
Mixu vs HiGhDrA
Gerald vs ArT
goblin vs MaNa
Jumy vs YoungYakov
Replay Cast
9h 25m
OSC
9h 25m
Epic.LAN
21h 25m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 19h
Epic.LAN
1d 21h
CSO Contender
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Online Event
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Esports World Cup
4 days
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
5 days
Esports World Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

JPL Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Championship of Russia 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.