EPT[D] What can be learned from Calm Before the Storm? - Page 3
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Apples8u
Canada46 Posts
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Apples8u
Canada46 Posts
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GGPope
Australia367 Posts
I think this map is pretty good, it definitely makes for entertaining games. I don't think the Protoss favour in PvT on this map is something that will last forever as terrans decipher the map architecture a bit better. | ||
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deathzz
669 Posts
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IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
A couple of my maps have 'different' concepts, and I doubted their playability, but when they were constantly tested they produced some interesting games. I don't think the question is "what can we learn from it as map-makers?" because even today map-makers still can't satisfy the general audience, otherwise we would do it on a weekly basis and map-making would get 10x more coverage. Sometimes it can be by chance or a run of luck, or other times it's just purely the originality of the layout (wider paths get narrower toward the center). We just have to look at the facts. JackyPrime designed this map without knowing how it would really play, but that he made it and thought it was unique and had a good concept - and it turned out to play very very well. Originality is probably what struck it the most. | ||
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SolidZeal
United States393 Posts
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mutantmagnet
United States3791 Posts
On November 25 2011 08:31 FlopTurnReaver wrote: This is very confusing. 2 weeks ago the general consensus was that 3 base turtle maps without innovation are bad. Now suddenly it's the shit. Also I don't understand why people are saying the map would resemble the feeling of BW maps, when there are almost no BW maps with easy 3 bases. Maybe it's just the size? Actually they are shit. All of those other maps haven't created the results we've seen in Calm Before the Storm. I think Monitor offers some really good explanations on what makes this easy 3 base work so much better than the others. On November 25 2011 06:07 monitor wrote: I think there are a couple factors that contribute to the broodwar-esque feel of Calm Before the Storm: 1) The inbase expansion- games usually start with either heavy macro or punishing expanding with aggression. This leads to the unusual macro openers that you don't see on many other maps. It also means lategame comes early. 2) Large map size (152x152)- you can have a lot of time to react to pushes. This means that timing attacks are less powerful than harass combined with macro play. Then as the game progesses, there are many large scale battles all over the map because of the long distances and reinforce time. 3) Lots of pathways- players can move throughout the map in many ways, around the edges and through the middle. This makes runbys easier than normal and more powerful since the side paths are hard to defend with an army. Also there are a ton of places to engage instead of having every single battle in the center of the map like XelNaga Caverns (with occasional fights in the natural or third). So overall I think the map is pretty good at encouraging epicness, but it could be improved by making harass more powerful. Something like a lowground cliff at the natural or minerals facing the center of the map at the fourth would just make harassment a bit more powerful and give opportunites for even more epic play. On November 25 2011 08:49 Diamond wrote: I would not get too up in arms yet about CBTS. It's a pretty new map, and you remember that Daybreak at first lead to 100% epic games but as more people got used to it it became a normal-ish map with some potential HUGE imbalances. I guess that happened with other people but I was never fond of Daybreak. The only maps I consistently enjoyed watching others play on was Metalopolis (but those games never reached BW level of hype), the last version of Desert Oasis (mostly because it was so short lived :p) and Shakuras Plateau (this actually was more of a rollercoaster where some of the best games ever played on this map outweighed the mediocre filler games) CBTS is heads and shoulders above these other maps. | ||
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Jessen
Denmark21 Posts
This is because it seems like being a tad toss favored in the PvT match-up. The map description is even: A protoss friendly map. Been looking at the game results from Code A and S from Nov and it seems to be tipping to Protoss´ favor, both in the TvP and ZvP matchup. Nevertheless there may be many factors such a BO, players mistakes etc. that dictates the games more than the map itself. Hence the wish to see more general statistics, though that may take some time since the map is still fairly new. As for the map, I don't really think it is "epic" in itself nor is the games played on it more epic than others. They are long macro games, with more encounters yes. But not epic be default, it just often forces games into a long term because of the large distance between bases. Which means that you can still go back to macro after an all-in, but you will always be behind. So in that matter it often drags a game out that should have been ended and never really got interesting after the all-in. Terrans can even be a real pain when in a long long long term game with half the map in control, T can drag the game for ages with lifting and staying alive. Once again making the game 20min longer than needed and making it boring to watch. Seen some good games on this map, but don't really see the standard of games on this map as better as most of the other maps... | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
Toss player here. | ||
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CaptainCrush
United States785 Posts
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/497_Calm_Before_the_Storm TvZ: 5-5 (50%) ZvP: 2-7 (22.2%) PvT: 10-5 (66.7%) P favored ... maybe ........... | ||
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WniO
United States2706 Posts
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Zaphid
Czech Republic1860 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
The middle was made to favor toss with forcefields, while still making tons of ways around so zerg can still flank, just not as easy as on taldarim for example. While the map has alot of things that favor toss, they also have things that favor the other races. Also you can't float drops behind the bases of the opponents. Also its fairly easy to take a 4th and get a 5th for free, just have to defend a ramp for it. if the opponent attacks it you are able to attack thair main. Anyway the reason toss does so damn well on this map is that it favors their playstyle, while the other races current playstyles are really weak on this map and need adjustment. (goody would probably love this map for mech and be unbeatable). Played mech on that map myself against zerg, since mutas suck mech is soooo strong. (needed like half of the turrets i need normally to be save) So terrans and zerg could easily get accustomed to this map and don't get stomped by toss anymore. Anyway that map was made for toss, so it will probably go as soon as there are enough tosses in the codes again. But the map design was done really well. Unlike the maps just favoring zerg because people felt zerg is weak and removed anything that favors another race. This map has different favorable positions for each race. Oh i love this map mostly because i can mech against protoss that normally beat me up badly when i play mech xD. | ||
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