EPTWhen I'm playing/watching, I have very little time to notice the aesthetics, but I do enjoy effectively using terrain and positioning. Gogo Haven!
TL Map Contest Results - Page 13
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popsilique
United States71 Posts
When I'm playing/watching, I have very little time to notice the aesthetics, but I do enjoy effectively using terrain and positioning. Gogo Haven! | ||
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IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
On November 10 2011 05:22 IronManSC wrote: I would like to make it known that [TLMC] Ohana is on battle.net but it's the wrong version. That's the old old version. It needs to be the newest one. I am sending the correct version of Ohana to Plexa right now. Re-quoting so everyone can be advised. | ||
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Icetoad
Canada262 Posts
LoS_Althea, LoS_Artemis and LoS_Novaria. | ||
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Antares777
United States1971 Posts
I'm satisfied with most of the finalists. Cloud Kingdom, not only is the name of the map a consonantal alliteration and therefore sounds awesome, the map itself is awesome. I can't really delve into all of this right now because I'm a bit beside myself at some of the other decisions. Daggoth Crater is another one of the good choices. I'm not quite sure why some of the gameplay changes were made from Korhal Compound. I personally dislike lava title sets and thought that the Korhal textured one was much more appealing aesthetically. Still, it's a good map gameplay-wise, which is obviously more important. I'm happy that Burning Altar made it in. Ohana and Twilight Peaks on the fence about. I haven't tested them myself, so I can't say much. There are some experimental things about the maps which make me feel uneasy about them. Anyways, congratulations. Haven's Lagoon is... terrible? I'm trying really hard to be nice here. Firstly, the map is extremely open. It's like so open that if you are not Zerg you might as well GG at the start. Zerg can always expand away from his opponent and the chokes are nonexistent. I think that the people judging the maps wanted to go for a wide variety of symmetries, and that is really the only reason I can see how it was chosen. I would have personally picked any other map over this one. Seriously. Sanctuary I feel is a solid standard map, though I find it a little bit boring. Was the only reason this was picked over other, better maps because it was a three player map? I mean no offense to Grebliv, the map is clearly a solid map, I just feel that there were better ones that were submitted. Alysaar Deluge, where are you? Why wasn't that map picked? Seriously? Also, timetwister22, you made Haven's Lagoon correct? Are all these people supporting your map because they are your friends or because they think that Haven's Lagoon is a good map? I just cannot fathom why everyone thinks that map is good. I'm really sorry if I hurt your feelings. I'm willing to give feedback on it and help you improve it if you want, but... meh I just don't like it right now.  | ||
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chuky500
France473 Posts
Haven's Lagoon has a bad design. In protoss vs zerg you can't defend your 3rd against mutalisks because your army is slow and the 3rd is far. There's a choke between the 3rd and 4rth expansion, it's hard to defend if a terran mech gets there. Also the difficulty of expanding is to transfer your workers but since you expand perpendicularly to the attack path there's no way for the opponent to intercept them unpurposely and he won't discover a hidden expansion. So it makes games less interesting. And hearing Superouman say the overused 3 bases layout is "the most balanced layout if you don't want 2base timing pushes all day long", I'm astonished. So a good maps favors the first timing attack at 200 suplies or 3 3 upgrades ? And if you spectate a game on such a map, during the first 20 minutes you'd watch players micro their workers to the closest mineral patch ? Famous casters and players should have been involved in the jury, to provide different opinions. | ||
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Redmark
Canada2129 Posts
Famous casters and players should have been involved in the jury, to provide different opinions. Why famous casters? | ||
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RoboBob
United States798 Posts
Daggoth Cluster is probably the most balanced map in the group, but it looks kinda boring...it will probably be played the same as most ladder maps. | ||
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Souai
United States47 Posts
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Ruscour
5233 Posts
Aren't mapmakers pretty discouraged by the lack of diversity in melee mapmaking? Everything is relatively similar and you never see anything too diversified due to balance. Keep in mind these aren't the final winners, just the finalists. I dunno, if I was a mapmaker I wouldn't be mad, I'd be happy that Haven's Lagoon made it and hope it makes good games so that it opens people up to more experimentation in mapmaking. | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On November 10 2011 06:36 Antares777 wrote: Ok. Uh... congrats to the winners I guess? I'm satisfied with most of the finalists. Cloud Kingdom, not only is the name of the map a consonantal alliteration and therefore sounds awesome, the map itself is awesome. I can't really delve into all of this right now because I'm a bit beside myself at some of the other decisions. Daggoth Crater is another one of the good choices. I'm not quite sure why some of the gameplay changes were made from Korhal Compound. I personally dislike lava title sets and thought that the Korhal textured one was much more appealing aesthetically. Still, it's a good map gameplay-wise, which is obviously more important. I'm happy that Burning Altar made it in. Ohana and Twilight Peaks on the fence about. I haven't tested them myself, so I can't say much. There are some experimental things about the maps which make me feel uneasy about them. Anyways, congratulations. Haven's Lagoon is... terrible? I'm trying really hard to be nice here. Firstly, the map is extremely open. It's like so open that if you are not Zerg you might as well GG at the start. Zerg can always expand away from his opponent and the chokes are nonexistent. I think that the people judging the maps wanted to go for a wide variety of symmetries, and that is really the only reason I can see how it was chosen. I would have personally picked any other map over this one. Seriously. Sanctuary I feel is a solid standard map, though I find it a little bit boring. Was the only reason this was picked over other, better maps because it was a three player map? I mean no offense to Grebliv, the map is clearly a solid map, I just feel that there were better ones that were submitted. Alysaar Deluge, where are you? Why wasn't that map picked? Seriously? Also, timetwister22, you made Haven's Lagoon correct? Are all these people supporting your map because they are your friends or because they think that Haven's Lagoon is a good map? I just cannot fathom why everyone thinks that map is good. I'm really sorry if I hurt your feelings. I'm willing to give feedback on it and help you improve it if you want, but... meh I just don't like it right now. Hey, how about you read the OP before bullshitting around like that? Haven's Lagoon was chosen because the testers really liked to play on it, i think it was stated multiple times. Also, why would you attack timetwister22 like that, are you THAT bitter that his map made it through? | ||
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Dystisis
Norway713 Posts
On November 10 2011 00:34 Archvil3 wrote: Suprising choises. I think all the maps have really great layouts and will play out really well. Some of the maps have some problems with the aesthetics though. Not just being bad or dull, they have some pretty critical flaws in them which just looks terrible. One of the maps have too small borders for example, which means that there is a black edge all the way around the map. I hope these will be corrected though. I don't understand why SC2 map makers have gotten so picky about following their new conventions of map making. Its not like map makers have actually had much success with their maps yet. In BW, maps had borders straight up ending the field of of play in full visibility, and it was considered a feature. For some reason map makers in SC2 have taken to adding like a 20hx leeway between the pathable ground and the border on every damn map (with water/lava/lowcliff), without even considering the possibility that this affects gameplay greatly, for example in that it allows air units to be unkillable unless the opponent also has air. Even behind the main, some mapmakers always put a lot of ground-unpathable leeway. In my opinion at least some bases/maps should simply have safe ground behind their minerals leading to the edge of the map. This allows for more possibilities in play, as opposed to shutting it off for ground which mostly disables. You need *a few* bases which are easier to harass with air, but it's terrible when it is every single map/base imo. | ||
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chuky500
France473 Posts
Because the jury picked a map by Superouman who doesn't like 2 base pushes. Casters would prefer maps favoring early skirmishes (and 2 base pushes aren't even early). Casters in the jury would have given perspective to the other judges. | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On November 10 2011 06:54 chuky500 wrote: Because the jury picked a map by Superouman who doesn't like 2 base pushes. Casters would prefer maps favoring early skirmishes (and 2 base pushes aren't even early) so it would have given perspective to the other judges. uhh.... what? Why would you assume something like that? And beside, there is nothing wrong about having a lot of macro maps, they are the most interesting to create and play anyway. | ||
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chuky500
France473 Posts
On November 10 2011 04:28 Superouman wrote: This is the most balanced layout if you don't want 2base timing pushes all day long. | ||
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TedJustice
Canada1324 Posts
Very nice looking maps though. | ||
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RoboBob
United States798 Posts
On November 10 2011 04:26 chuky500 wrote: FlopTurnReaver you seemed pissed by what i said. Creative doesn't mean wicked. On the ladder the majority of games only go to 2 or 3 bases and the majority of engagements happen close to players bases not in the middle of the map. That's why the layout of the bases matter a lot and matters more than how the middle of the map is laid out. If you look at the 7 finalists, appart from Haven's Lagoon they all have the same 3 base layout : - a big main - a tiny natural - a ramp between them - a 3rd expansion touching the natural ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/N3m4W.jpg) And this is also the case with Motm, in Motm 9 all finalists also had this overused layout. Say this is "BS","plain stupid", that I make "myself look silly" but it's a fact, mapping contests pick maps that are very conservative. Now you ask me why people like Metalopolis ? The lay out of the first 3 bases is unique. How hard is it to understand maps will play the same if bases are the same ? This post makes a ton of sense. I was struggling to understand why I felt so many of these maps were "blah" (except for Haven's Lagoon) and this hit the nail right on the head. I understand that thirds close to mains are important to Zergs. But the beauty of Haven's Lagoon is that you're always expanding away from the enemy main. So even though the third is far from the main relative to most ladder maps, its also much more difficult for the opponent to punish that third. Any early push by the opponent to kill the third is extremely vulnerable to counterattack by the opposite ground. The choice to push along either the high or low ground is really cool too. Push along the high ground and you get the high ground advantage, but take longer to hit the opponent. Push along the low ground and you get to the opponent much faster, but then you relinquish the high ground to the opponent. This dynamic continues into the lategame with the 5th and 6th bases, which is really really cool. I'm not worried too much about the lack of chokes on the map because there's so many different levels. At first glance such an open map would be awesome for Zergs, but then you think about Terrans placing a PF on either the low ground third or the gold. Or for Protoss, Colossi cliff abusing the 4ths, threatening 4gates on open naturals, and a gazillion tough-to-scout locations to place proxy pylons. The more I think about it, the cooler Haven's Lagoon looks. I might actually playtest that one. | ||
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Collapze
Norway3 Posts
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motumbo
United States130 Posts
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Antares777
United States1971 Posts
On November 10 2011 06:52 Roggay wrote: Hey, how about you read the OP before bullshitting around like that? Haven's Lagoon was chosen because the testers really liked to play on it, i think it was stated multiple times. Also, why would you attack timetwister22 like that, are you THAT bitter that his map made it through? This isn't an attack on the map maker. It's an attack on the judges. | ||
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Phried
Canada147 Posts
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