• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:19
CEST 03:19
KST 10:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall9HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL60Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?13FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event19Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster16Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1
StarCraft 2
General
Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher Statistics for vetoed/disliked maps The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? PiG Sty Festival #5: Playoffs Preview + Groups Recap
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Korean Starcraft League Week 77 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Semi Finals & Finals
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady
Brood War
General
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL SC uni coach streams logging into betting site BGH Mineral Boosts Tutorial Video Player “Jedi” cheat on CSL Replays question
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 680 users

[D][I] Resource Saturation

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
October 09 2011 22:42 GMT
#1
--- Nuked ---
FlopTurnReaver
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Switzerland1980 Posts
October 09 2011 22:47 GMT
#2
This looks really informative and helpfull. I'll make sure to finish reading it sometime this or next year.

Upvote for effort! (mentally)
Check out @MapOfTheMonth on Twitter and under http://bit.ly/motmorg
Johanaz
Profile Joined September 2010
Denmark363 Posts
October 09 2011 23:04 GMT
#3
I really hope this becomes part of your thesis.
TPW Map Maker - theplanetaryworkshop.com
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-09 23:12:43
October 09 2011 23:05 GMT
#4
--- Nuked ---
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
October 09 2011 23:35 GMT
#5
On October 10 2011 08:05 Barrin wrote:
Yeah sorry about turning mapmaking - a truly great outlet of creative expression - into a mind-numbingly drawn-out intellectual ordeal

My greatest fun comes in trying to be good at combining the two


Those are the same thing! Which is why combining them is exciting. In one, your brain is doing all the crunching behind the scenes, and you perceive this as fun. In the other, it's out in the open and it's "numbing", unless you acquire a taste for it. ;D

Great work putting those graphs together, that's awesome! It'd be really freakin sweet if liquipedia had an interactive tool that let you see a graph like this for a chosen pool of maps (because all their stats are already in the database). In fact it'd be nice if those things were in liquipedia, resources/cell and cells/base.

Theory 2... is not wrong, but it's only part of the story. You also have to account for the quantized nature of one of the properties being analyzed: bases come in units of one, never fractions. They also take up roughly the same amount of space uniformly. This means that a smaller map with less cells/base is going to have to be very clever to get open space that isn't imbalanced because it encroaches on early game boundaries that are more or less standard (things like 1-diag main-nat ramp, or easily defendable uncliffable natural). In fact the smaller the map dimension the less viable layout arrangements there are, which is true in general anyway, but even more constrained for heavy resource saturation. Hence the only room for novelty in design is to use weird harass incentives or give the player very few or no alternatives to a defined "balanced" expansion pattern and play strategy.

The first 3-4 bases define so much of map balance and map strategy, it is interesting to see these aggregate stats but for smaller maps it's hard for them to say much, if you know what I mean. A map like Shakuras Plateau with 14 bases actually only has 2 "unpinned" bases that aren't related to a start location. So even the bigger maps with 14-16 bases don't escape this because they are usually 4 start locations! Basically what I'm trying to say is that everything is all tied up like pick-up-sticks. Smaller map dimensions amplify this a whole lot.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 41m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 235
NeuroSwarm 180
ProTech77
RuFF_SC2 72
ROOTCatZ 71
StarCraft: Brood War
NaDa 127
yabsab 57
Icarus 5
Dota 2
febbydoto12
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1634
Stewie2K807
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor188
Other Games
summit1g10075
tarik_tv8211
JimRising 555
fl0m427
ViBE154
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV21
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH282
• davetesta41
• Hunta15 3
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki29
• Pr0nogo 3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21288
• Ler72
League of Legends
• Doublelift5525
• Jankos1571
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
8h 41m
Clem vs Classic
SHIN vs Cure
FEL
10h 41m
WardiTV European League
10h 41m
BSL: ProLeague
16h 41m
Dewalt vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
1d 22h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV European League
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
FEL
6 days
FEL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 2v2 Season 3
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.