• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:13
CEST 00:13
KST 07:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies18Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)5Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview5[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course12
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double0Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !18Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0
StarCraft 2
General
herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists
Tourneys
Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 527 Hell Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 526 Rubber and Glue Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
25 Years Since Brood War Patch 1.08 (Spoiler) ASL21 Winner's Interview vespene.gg — BW replays in browser [ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies UA StarCraft: Mawin (T) vs hanniGan (P) Showmatch
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software)
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esports Organizations: Raisi…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1179 users

[D][I] Resource Saturation

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
October 09 2011 22:42 GMT
#1
--- Nuked ---
FlopTurnReaver
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Switzerland1980 Posts
October 09 2011 22:47 GMT
#2
This looks really informative and helpfull. I'll make sure to finish reading it sometime this or next year.

Upvote for effort! (mentally)
Check out @MapOfTheMonth on Twitter and under http://bit.ly/motmorg
Johanaz
Profile Joined September 2010
Denmark363 Posts
October 09 2011 23:04 GMT
#3
I really hope this becomes part of your thesis.
TPW Map Maker - theplanetaryworkshop.com
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-09 23:12:43
October 09 2011 23:05 GMT
#4
--- Nuked ---
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
October 09 2011 23:35 GMT
#5
On October 10 2011 08:05 Barrin wrote:
Yeah sorry about turning mapmaking - a truly great outlet of creative expression - into a mind-numbingly drawn-out intellectual ordeal

My greatest fun comes in trying to be good at combining the two


Those are the same thing! Which is why combining them is exciting. In one, your brain is doing all the crunching behind the scenes, and you perceive this as fun. In the other, it's out in the open and it's "numbing", unless you acquire a taste for it. ;D

Great work putting those graphs together, that's awesome! It'd be really freakin sweet if liquipedia had an interactive tool that let you see a graph like this for a chosen pool of maps (because all their stats are already in the database). In fact it'd be nice if those things were in liquipedia, resources/cell and cells/base.

Theory 2... is not wrong, but it's only part of the story. You also have to account for the quantized nature of one of the properties being analyzed: bases come in units of one, never fractions. They also take up roughly the same amount of space uniformly. This means that a smaller map with less cells/base is going to have to be very clever to get open space that isn't imbalanced because it encroaches on early game boundaries that are more or less standard (things like 1-diag main-nat ramp, or easily defendable uncliffable natural). In fact the smaller the map dimension the less viable layout arrangements there are, which is true in general anyway, but even more constrained for heavy resource saturation. Hence the only room for novelty in design is to use weird harass incentives or give the player very few or no alternatives to a defined "balanced" expansion pattern and play strategy.

The first 3-4 bases define so much of map balance and map strategy, it is interesting to see these aggregate stats but for smaller maps it's hard for them to say much, if you know what I mean. A map like Shakuras Plateau with 14 bases actually only has 2 "unpinned" bases that aren't related to a start location. So even the bigger maps with 14-16 bases don't escape this because they are usually 4 start locations! Basically what I'm trying to say is that everything is all tied up like pick-up-sticks. Smaller map dimensions amplify this a whole lot.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Patches Events
19:30
Patches' Patch Clash #7
RotterdaM532
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 532
ProTech102
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 18423
Artosis 269
Zeus 69
NaDa 21
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm114
League of Legends
JimRising 557
Other Games
gofns14560
summit1g12235
tarik_tv9858
Grubby4687
FrodaN4604
Liquid`RaSZi2716
shahzam464
KnowMe328
Liquid`Hasu138
kaitlyn36
Dewaltoss34
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1184
BasetradeTV101
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 54
• musti20045 35
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2059
• masondota21352
Other Games
• imaqtpie1128
• WagamamaTV350
• Shiphtur305
• tFFMrPink 14
Upcoming Events
OSC
1h 47m
Universe Titan Cup
12h 47m
Rogue vs Percival
Wardi Open
13h 47m
Monday Night Weeklies
17h 47m
Replay Cast
1d 1h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 12h
GSL
2 days
herO vs Classic
Cure vs Clem
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
GSL
3 days
Maru vs SHIN
Zoun vs Rogue
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Spring Champion…
3 days
SKillous vs Strange
Lambo vs Strange
Ryung vs Strange
Lambo vs Ryung
Ryung vs SKillous
Lambo vs SKillous
Replay Cast
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
TBD vs SHIN
TBD vs Rogue
IPSL
5 days
ZZZero vs WorsT
Julia vs eOnzErG
Replay Cast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
IPSL
6 days
Dragon vs Artosis
dxtr13 vs Hawk
BSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W8
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

2026 KK StarCraft Pro League
BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
YSL S3
Acropolis #4
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals

Upcoming

CSCL: Masked Kings S4
Escore Tournament S2: King of Kings
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
Bounty Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.