Hence why they are suggestions.

Also if you read what it said I said maybe keep that extra 4th base there depending how much space there is.

But yeah, nvm, guess since it's not your suggestion it's not good apparently.

dezi

Germany1536 Posts

August 03 2011 22:11 GMT

#42

The whole area is already cramped. I liked his initial draft. Somestimes feedback is just bad and can be a hindrance.

SidianTheBard

United States2475 Posts

August 03 2011 22:49 GMT

#43

except the problem with his initial draft is that taking a 3rd causes you to spread out far too thin and therefore if you aren't a zerg you will have a hard time getting a 3rd and are better off just sitting on 2 base and doing some type of all-in.

Let's say it's a TvT or a PvT that gets end game and you both have 3rds, then it's going to be hard to get a 4th since you either take one of the bases in the middle of the map or take the one to the side of your main but then you have to hope it doesn't get scouted because trying to move forces from that base to your 3rd is a huge distance plus there are no chokes what so ever to help.

I guess I don't see a problem if it is more cramped with bases because then at least the bases are easier to take and therefore means the game will most likely get off 2 base and be much more interesting.

monitor

United States2409 Posts

August 03 2011 23:23 GMT

#44

On August 04 2011 07:11 dezi wrote:
The whole area is already cramped. I liked his initial draft. Somestimes feedback is just bad and can be a hindrance.

Lol. Feedback is never bad. Period.

No matter what, it's up to the author what he does with the map. Feedback offers different perspectives on a map- sometimes good suggestions, sometimes bad suggestions. The author has the final say on what he does-- he has to pick the good feedback that uses specific examples and explanations to why to make a change.

So in the future, give feedback using very specific examples and reasoning behind changes. To help map judging, play the game more and/or look at some of the good and popular maps.

That being said ---

I agree that having 5 bases there is too cluttered because holding them all is very easily by controlling a few chokes, and then you can just turtle up. It'll make games pretty boring with few back and forth battles and harass.

IronManSC

United States2119 Posts

August 03 2011 23:48 GMT

#45

IronManSC

United States2119 Posts

August 04 2011 17:33 GMT

#46

I've been breaking my back over these changes to the 3rd all day yesterday, so I will leave it be (current version) for several more tests and see where it goes from there. I don't think revamping the entire 3rd (and even adding an extra base) is necessary.

monitor

United States2409 Posts

August 04 2011 17:47 GMT

#47

On August 05 2011 02:33 IronManSC wrote:
I've been breaking my back over these changes to the 3rd all day yesterday, so I will leave it be (current version) for several more tests and see where it goes from there. I don't think revamping the entire 3rd (and even adding an extra base) is necessary.

Alright, good decision. Add me on NA @ Pawp 693 if you want me to test it, I'd be glad to.

WniO

United States2706 Posts

August 04 2011 17:56 GMT

#48

I think your tileset is interesting but these areas of grass look too "airbrushed" on maybe blend them more with the rocky or another one?

IronManSC

United States2119 Posts

August 04 2011 18:00 GMT

#49

Thanks WniO i'll keep that in mind!

IronManSC

United States2119 Posts

August 06 2011 19:24 GMT

#50

Map has been updated to 0.4

0.4 Changes:

1) The 3rds have been reduced to 1 open ramp facing the center, with a back-door blocked by rocks.

New 3rd:+ Show Spoiler +

2) Textures were polished in various places where they appeared "airbrushed"

3) Pathing fixed

IronManSC

United States2119 Posts

August 07 2011 19:55 GMT

#51

Map has been updated to 0.5

0.5 Changes:

1) The mains were slightly increased in size, allowing a little more room to build.

2) An additional Xel'Naga Watch Tower was added in the center, but both towers are not placed elsewhere to give each player defensive/offensive advantages.

3) The primary ramp into the natural was reduced from 3-width to 2-width, and can now be walled off.

4) The 3-width ramp to the 3rd base was moved over slightly toward the natural.

5) Map borders extended.

6) Textures, water, lighting and foliage polished.

Arnfasta

United States183 Posts

August 07 2011 20:30 GMT

#52

Map looks really interesting, I'll have to give a try. My question on the XWT, it seems like taking a XWT is easy in this map. Both players can take theirs and be safe as opposed to the original design which had one XWT which players fought for. The player who had it, had a significant advantage in terms of vision. Why the second one with both in close proximity over the center of the map?

IronManSC

United States2119 Posts

August 08 2011 06:20 GMT

#53

On August 08 2011 05:30 Arnfasta wrote:
Map looks really interesting, I'll have to give a try. My question on the XWT, it seems like taking a XWT is easy in this map. Both players can take theirs and be safe as opposed to the original design which had one XWT which players fought for. The player who had it, had a significant advantage in terms of vision. Why the second one with both in close proximity over the center of the map?

Due to several master games (mostly master randoms), we've seen a lot of TvT matches that showed the tower being in favor of whichever terran used it. This gave immediate map-control to whoever took it.

With two towers, each player has a particular zone of vision, so one cannot be totally caught off-guard. Games often appear as "stalemates" when you control your own tower, but it further promotes the necessity to change up the strategy and counter act what your opponent is doing, whereas having a single tower in the center literally limited the defendant and pushed him back on 2, mabye 3-base hoping to not get attacked, and not knowing when he would get attacked, because with a single tower, whoever doesn't have it has no real scouting capabilities whatsoever.

Now, you might say that all a person has to do is send a unit or two toward the tower and see what units he has, but a single tower in the center would be covered by LoS, which again is limiting on scouting capabilities for the defendant (or, the one who doesn't have the tower). His units trying to scout the tower would be shot down by ranged units, and you can't see very much of what you're attacked by --- it leaves you guessing --- let alone they are covered by LoS.

The other reason was that a single tower often limited the games to 2-base play. Without a proper scouting zone in the defendant's favor, taking a 3rd is extremely risky because he won't know when it will get attacked, and if he can't prepare for it, he will lose the investment. This is the other reason why 2 towers were added. The defendant can now see his opponent coming and prepare accordingly if he's on 3+ bases.

NewSunshine

United States5938 Posts

August 09 2011 06:31 GMT

#54

I wonder if this happens to anyone else, where the image is so large it just cuts off horizontally? Makes it hard to analyze the map without just playing it, which I have incidentally. I like the feel of the natural setup, but the 3rd took a bit of effort to secure. Perhaps the latest change has altered this.

On an aesthetic note: this and Beach have me wanting to do something similar, but also a bit different. It's a great looking map, and lots of the stuff I'm seeing really serve as cool inspiration.

IronManSC

United States2119 Posts

September 03 2011 15:21 GMT

#55

Updated to 0.6

Destructible Rocks leading into the 3rds are now reduced from 3 to 1 armor, and 2000 to 1000 health. This allows a quicker opportunity to take a safer 3rd.

IronManSC

United States2119 Posts

September 19 2011 20:33 GMT

#56

TPW Ohana has been updated from 0.6 to 1.2. Much needed changes were addressed.

1) Mineral placements at the main/natural/3rds were re-done

2) The 1x ramp on the 4th/5th (middle side bases) were increased to 3x to allow better flow.

3) A 3rd ramp was added to the 3rds, blocked by rocks and covered by LoSB.

4) Textures polished, pathing and lighting fixed.

IronManSC

United States2119 Posts

November 09 2011 19:03 GMT

#57

OP updated. Map has become a finalist in the TL Map-Making Contest. If you are interested in play testing it, search [TLMC] on battle.net. All comments, suggestions, and feedback are appreciated!

EatThePath

United States3943 Posts

November 09 2011 19:13 GMT

#58

I think it's really cool that you kept revising and refining this and now it's payed off! Nice!

Also, one of the more unconventional contest finalists, so double kudos. ;D

TheAmazombie

United States3714 Posts

November 10 2011 00:01 GMT

#59

On November 10 2011 04:03 IronManSC wrote:
OP updated. Map has become a finalist in the TL Map-Making Contest. If you are interested in play testing it, search [TLMC] on battle.net. All comments, suggestions, and feedback are appreciated!

Hey IronMan, congrats to you and your team on becoming a finalist with this map! It is a great one and let's hope you get chosen for the winner.