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[M] (2) Archi - The Machine II

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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Archivian
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom362 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-08 06:53:27
March 31 2011 19:55 GMT
#1
[image loading]

The Machine II 2.0

Here is a DL link

After ALOT of testing, balancing and adjusting I have a 2.0 of this map.
Big thanks to all the plat, diamond and masters EU players who let me bug them into playing on it. (some of which over and over and over...)

It plays very different from the first version, and it seems that most people who try it like it.

Its still based on scrap station concept, which i liked more than the map. What I really hope is that people would prefer this to scrapstation (if they play it), trying to take some of the best things i saw in that concept and trying to put it in this map with my own twist.

Major Changes:
+ Show Spoiler +

rush time+ Show Spoiler +

spawn ramp to spawn ramp time has been made longer.
I was exactly the same and XNC, and the same as steppes if u took the bridge.
However, only one player out of all the matches even used the bridge, also zerg was too much at a disadvantage with it there.

Feed back from nearly everyone was that the XNC timings felt like steppes timing. So i increased it by about 5 game secs to just shorter than lost temple and that seems to be perfect with the balance for the rest of the map. (I did make it the same as lost temple, and nearly everyone said it was way too far and so may as well just go flying).
It was quite strange but i wonder if its because of the shape and because its based onthescrapstation concept and so there is a certain expectation.


XWT
+ Show Spoiler +
I have reduced it to just 1 tower based on what EatThePath said about being able to flank and the old positions being too powerful. Well he was spot on really. I've placed it in the centre in easy reach. It was on right on the path before and it became a place of contention, so I've moved it up a bit into a more micro area, and it has drawn the fighting up into that area, especially in the early game, and as bases get taken that area contintues to be used.



Expos:
+ Show Spoiler +
Gold expos have been brought down to the middle right next to large micro area. And within easy reach of the gas of the 4th (i will come to that next)

A small 4th has been added just beneath the new gold. Its easy to take, but can be harassed from the high ground. Also taking it chokes that route, so there is more to consider when taking as you can reach the gas from the gold.
Zerg players quite often took the gold, then when a gas boost was needed they pulled 6 workers off mins and put them in the gas of 4th, so not taking it early meant they could keep the route open.
Obivously Terran put a PF there, but i will come to that later.)

An easy third that is very open to harass near the spawn. This was suggested by Dimfish with the idea that it would also allow harass from the bridge. Well the bridge is gone but they are still there because they work as an easy expo, and dispite the harrass that you know will come, they were taken ALOT. It was also good because i wanted to add a close third and this was a good idea. Though turtling was an issue.


Turtling and favouring air:

+ Show Spoiler +
The design as a whole was to avoid players simply going flying because it works best, but rather emphasize ground micro and drop play with flying as secondary to ground in most instances. Also I wanted the whole map to be used in a progressive way almost to the point of shifting everything from A to B, in this case from bottom to top.
That goal and the terrain was all to work against turtling without forcing a player not to too much.

Even with the easy third, it is open to harass, there is obvious harass of the main and the nat is fairly safe unless they come from the north to harass.
Also the third is a small expo so it only lasts for so long. So as soon as they look to taking the 4th they have to extend beyond turtlemode, and that 4th is easy to harass, very easy if they still want to try and turtle from spawn.

The terrain around the leading to the spawn +expos is all higher ground than the turtle area. This worked out better than I thought in keeping a turtler at a disadvantage (in turtling), but often the alternate route round the outside to attermpt to counter or expand remains open for the turtler to try and escape or do something none turtly.

In all the testing not one Turtler won, even if it went on for a while.


Additional - The ground in the top centre, by the cliff is not buildable. So no cannons or proxies on that part. The non-buildableness is hopfully conveyed by all the ruins and torn up metal. This was to help balance against Protss a bit, as pylons and cannons and warpins helpped hold the centre really easily in comparison. At least terran would have to invest in a tank, some marines and a scan to see cloaked and hit air and ground from decent range with decent dmg


Overall i think its as balanced as its gonna get. It plays well and I hope people enjoy it. After this map I've looked back at some of my older ones and realised how they should be scrapped and some imporved, so i think i will try and do that.

Currently up on EU server

Mapview
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HQ Image


Angled View
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HQ Image


Game view
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HQ Image


Analyzer
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Old map version
+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

The Machine II
Download Here
Available on EU

Change Log:
+ Show Spoiler +

Adjusted an expo
Removed an Object That I overlooked when retesting.



(If there is issues viewing the images please post, imgur was intermitent as i was uploading them. I will reupload them if there issues.)

The theme is basically the same as its first incarnation, on my 3 player map The Machine.

Its just that I quite liked it and so wanted to use it again. And so again its a mysterious ancient machine that does.... Something.



Layout:

Usually I like to cram in as many expansions as I can fit, but this time I wanted try to be liberal with space, but at the same time keep distances/timings reasonable.. I do like the idea of resource wars aswell and when I have that in mind usually I would put just under enough minerals for everyone to get very desperate over expos. This time though I tried something a little different. Even though the third is easy to take, it is possible to be cut off from it. In fact the further away from spawn you get, the easier it is to be cut off from your expo.

Aditionally I wanted to make a Scrapstation type map, (coz I dont think i did that before).
Also ther is a bridge with a narrow path. In the early game its obviously useful for rushes and small numbers, in the mid/late game, the bridge remains useful because even though its easily defendable, it is always an option for use harass or 2 pronged attacks, at the very least, forgeting about it can cost dearly

Distance
+ Show Spoiler +
The map is big for 2 players, 144x168. However the time from spawn ramp to diagonal gold expo (with a marine) is 53 secs. Which is +3secs ramp2ramp (diagonal)on Lost Temple. The timing for everything else is less than that.
It should be noted that a significant amount of space is used by air. However I think that the ground pathing and distance/time should be close enough so that a player wont just go air.


Bridge info (some pics)
+ Show Spoiler +
My original Idea for the bridge was to make it so that you could traverse it or destroy it when someone else tries to traverse it and killing their units.

I managed to make a bridge Traversable OR Destructible. Not both. So I opted for traversable as that was actually useful. If I can find a way to do both, then some pretty crazy maps can be built, even if units cant walk underneath. The closest I've come is getting units to traverse it (sometimes), but 2 problems, if you click on the bridge directly your units shoot it, and a stange one, the bridge sometimes floats away.

I heard that you could not make a bridge without having terrain underneath it. That issue I technically didnt concqour that issue but i did manage to create the illusion that there is no ground there.
This was by
1) HAVING to use the Mar Sara Bridge doodad, if i changed the artwork or model it would not work, same if i used any other doodad (at least the ones i tried)
2) Raising the height of the bridge off the ground so it is floating, then drawing a walkable path under it with thickness of only 1 square. Anymore than that and units fell off the edge when they got bunched up. However they do use the full surface of the bridge.

Effectively all I have done here is make an asthetic bridge, which does seem to work over terrain but not a truely functional bridge.

Pics
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]



Map Stats:
Players - 2
Size - 144x168
Spawn Ramp to Spawn Ramp time (Game time - Marine Speed) 40secs
Expos - Blue = 8, Gold = 2
XWT - 2


Map View
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HQ image here


Game View
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HQ Image here


Angled View
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HQ image here


Overview
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HQ Image here


Analyzer (Note: the analyzer cannot see the bridge and so the ground/cliff shortest path is incorrect)
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[image loading]
[image loading]


Extra Pic
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Wide view pics
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Large image

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Large image



Spawn
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Nat
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Third
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Gold
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Island
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Large image


Upper Mid
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Mid Mid
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Large image


Lower Mid
+ Show Spoiler +
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XWT
+ Show Spoiler +
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Large image
"you were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!" Micheal Caine
eXigent.
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Canada2419 Posts
March 31 2011 20:23 GMT
#2
Wow the architecture looks great, and the design is really nice. Is this available to play on NA yet?
sevia
Profile Joined May 2010
United States954 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-31 20:55:56
March 31 2011 20:55 GMT
#3
First off, I really like the design, definitely does remind me of Scrap Station like you intended. The only part I don't care for is the two islands at the end, but that's not a big deal.

What was the trouble with the bridge though? Obviously the destructible mechanic would be hard to make without breaking melee, but for a standard, ordinary bridge, I've never had trouble with this setup:

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


I feel like I'm missing something. When I was experimenting with bridges like that the units never had trouble staying on it. Was it because yours is thinner? Is there some other problem that I'm forgetting about?

Great job anyways.
최지성 Bomber || 김동환 viOLet || 고병재 GuMiho
NexUmbra
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Scotland3776 Posts
March 31 2011 20:57 GMT
#4
Wow, the map looks really good
Life has won two GSLs and a Blizzard Cup. NOT three GSLs.
Varpulis
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States2517 Posts
March 31 2011 21:00 GMT
#5
Why do you live in Europe? you've got so many good maps that I can't play on

that bridge is really cool, gj.
For he is the Oystermeister, lord of all the oysters.
Mereel
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany895 Posts
March 31 2011 21:44 GMT
#6
this map is awesome!!!
design is so amazing, the only problem i see is the lightning. its to shiny
TPW Mapmaking Team
NielsBohr
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada5 Posts
March 31 2011 22:20 GMT
#7
I'm hosting this map on the American servers for you Archivian
I'm hosting this map as well as Urban Flux make sure you guys check them out, both are really good maps by Archivian!!
adso
Profile Joined March 2011
718 Posts
March 31 2011 22:26 GMT
#8
Simplely lovely, hope it gets lot's of action (to paint it red )

Reminiscent of a "pantheon war" (norse vs greek gods... (with their opposing mounts facing one another).
Archivian
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom362 Posts
April 01 2011 06:42 GMT
#9
On April 01 2011 05:55 sevia wrote:
First off, I really like the design, definitely does remind me of Scrap Station like you intended. The only part I don't care for is the two islands at the end, but that's not a big deal.

What was the trouble with the bridge though? Obviously the destructible mechanic would be hard to make without breaking melee, but for a standard, ordinary bridge, I've never had trouble with this setup:

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


I feel like I'm missing something. When I was experimenting with bridges like that the units never had trouble staying on it. Was it because yours is thinner? Is there some other problem that I'm forgetting about?

Great job anyways.



I thought it was because the bridge was too thin at first, but it seems regardless of the size of the pathing underneath the bridge the units will use the full bridge. It only seemed to happen when I pushed the bridge past capacity for unit space.

eg- try to force 50marines to fight 50 zerglings on the bridge.

When I used the same number of pathing width as the bridge, eventually someone would fall off the edge.
When I put the singular pathing in this issue doesnt seem to happen.


Its also entirely possible that editor is slightly broken some how. There is alot of bugs (like when I switch from terrain to units/doodads the main work area disappears and I have to press "I" twice to get it back. Or I cant export on high terrain quality, it has to be low terrain quality-Though with this map only it seemed to be working fine though the issue has been there for the last 10 maps)



@NielsBohr

Thanks for uploading them to NA server, I hope people enjoy them. I had to re-upload the file to mapster (the DL link has been replaced in this thread.) As there was a ramp bug generated when I saved it before which I had to fix.

--
Any feed back about distances around the map, if it feels to big for ground units, or if its just fine would be cool.

Also feed back on having a path that leads directly to the Nat area (the bridge), was this a good idea or not. Does it create too much of an ability to be pinned back by your enemy?
"you were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!" Micheal Caine
Summerfield
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden88 Posts
April 01 2011 20:11 GMT
#10
When I played it as Zerg some of my banlings droped down in the water when I rushed like 50 of them across the bridge clumped together. I think all of them popped up, but you should try it and see for yourself.
"And this queen is like F-u darkshrine you are dying like the bitch you are!" - PsYstarcraft
WniO
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2706 Posts
April 01 2011 20:13 GMT
#11
can you post some closer shots of the textures in the "extra pics" part, overall it looks really good, there might be some gameplay conscerns with the 2 islands though.
Archivian
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom362 Posts
April 01 2011 20:39 GMT
#12
On April 02 2011 05:11 Summerfield wrote:
When I played it as Zerg some of my banlings droped down in the water when I rushed like 50 of them across the bridge clumped together. I think all of them popped up, but you should try it and see for yourself.



Hmm, I tested for that alot but I thought I had fixed that. After retesting, I didnt get the same issue as they crossed, but i did get one if they all stopped right on the edge of the bridge.

I have fixed that issue now and the DL link at the top of the page has the new version.



@WniO

I will get on puting some texture pics up.

As far as the islands are concerned, what gameplay issues do you think they would create? If the consensus generally is that they should be removed then I will, but then would there not be too few expos?
"you were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!" Micheal Caine
WniO
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2706 Posts
April 01 2011 20:55 GMT
#13
Well, personally I like the variation in gameplay that might come from having two islands, but it might make certain matchups favorable in later game stages, since the two are so close to eachother.
If there was one island, it wouldnt be so bad. It just looks really awkward for them to be so tight together. If they were at the 3/9 o clock positions of the map it would seem more "fair" but then you would have rediculous map width problems.

Id suggest making it 1 island or having it just merge to the top of the map sortof like in scrapstation with the gold base.

Also, how far can air units fly from the mainland?
Archivian
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom362 Posts
April 01 2011 21:59 GMT
#14
On April 02 2011 05:55 WniO wrote:
Well, personally I like the variation in gameplay that might come from having two islands, but it might make certain matchups favorable in later game stages, since the two are so close to eachother.
If there was one island, it wouldnt be so bad. It just looks really awkward for them to be so tight together. If they were at the 3/9 o clock positions of the map it would seem more "fair" but then you would have rediculous map width problems.

Id suggest making it 1 island or having it just merge to the top of the map sortof like in scrapstation with the gold base.

Also, how far can air units fly from the mainland?



lol, thats what I was thinking when I added them, I was initially going to put them at 3/9 but like you said, it creates width problems. I was going to scrap them altogether, but I have made maps before with 4 expos each and they were not recieved very well, as the general consensus was that there would be too few minerals. That was further compounded with this style of map, if there was too few minerals to go around then I though players would have to go ground OR air and dedicate to it rather than having the extra minerals to be able to change up their play.

So i figured at the top to avoid width issues, and I kept them tight for 3 reasons. 1) because if they take an island, that is a really long distance from spawn and any further might make everything feel too far. 2) I still liked the idea of resource war, so if they were tight you have to worry about the other island and air units dont have to travel to far to attack it.and 3) if someone takes it, its not too far to serve as an area to offer some support, though the limited space means someone cant turtle up on there.

With regards to bounds The image below shows the bounds in red
[image loading]
HQ image
"you were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!" Micheal Caine
WniO
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2706 Posts
April 01 2011 22:08 GMT
#15
Oh, those bounds are fine. Yeah idk the islands would have to be tested out before too many assumtions are made, so leave em for now^
Archivian
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom362 Posts
April 02 2011 00:18 GMT
#16
@WniO

I fogot to add that the textures I used were:
Bel'Shir Dirt Light
Redstone Panels
Bel'Shir Grass Light
Aiur Grass
Agria Foliage
Avernus Plates
Monlyth Plates
Valhalla Rock
"you were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!" Micheal Caine
Archivian
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom362 Posts
April 18 2011 19:44 GMT
#17
Map has been revamped and updated totally.

Feed back on this new version would be very much welcome
"you were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!" Micheal Caine
Joruto
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany39 Posts
April 18 2011 22:08 GMT
#18
Just had a look on this map and will play it tomorrow i think
My first thoughts are that u did a great job especially the design is very good and something new.

The spawning locations remind me of Scrap Station and i would say its even better

Also u create a special strugglepoint at the gold expos but wouldnt a greedy player have a great advantage exspecially Terra if they just expand to gold with their 1st and 2nd Expo and put down a planetary?

I'm gonna gonna tell you more after I played it.
Archivian
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom362 Posts
April 18 2011 22:23 GMT
#19
On April 19 2011 07:08 Joruto wrote:
Just had a look on this map and will play it tomorrow i think
My first thoughts are that u did a great job especially the design is very good and something new.

The spawning locations remind me of Scrap Station and i would say its even better

Also u create a special strugglepoint at the gold expos but wouldnt a greedy player have a great advantage exspecially Terra if they just expand to gold with their 1st and 2nd Expo and put down a planetary?

I'm gonna gonna tell you more after I played it.


Yeah double PF in gold and 4th expo is strong there. though the 4th can be harassed easily (unless high ground is taken), and spawn is far away (unless they move everyhing up with them at the start )

Also its very very cramped when u do that, good to choke the path, but not so much for building, or moveing back and forth through.
"you were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!" Micheal Caine
Ragoo
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany2773 Posts
April 19 2011 16:44 GMT
#20
This map is both aesthetically beautiful and has a very interesting layout

I don't understand why the golds are gold tho, I'd rather make the bases at the very top gold or add a gold in the middle over the watchtower.

And I would add ramps facing the gold bases on the top, that would make counterattacks/flanks a lot easier when Terran controls the tower.

Other than that I like it very much. I'd love to have a balanced map that's the shape of Scrap Station in tournaments
Member of TPW mapmaking team/// twitter.com/Ragoo_ /// "goody represents border between explainable reason and supernatural" Cloud
lefix
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1082 Posts
April 19 2011 16:55 GMT
#21
i like the new changes. wanted to try it out all the time but i keep forgetting about it :D maybe later today
Map of the Month | The Planetary Workshop | SC2Melee.net
Archivian
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom362 Posts
April 19 2011 16:57 GMT
#22
On April 20 2011 01:44 Ragoo wrote:
This map is both aesthetically beautiful and has a very interesting layout

I don't understand why the golds are gold tho, I'd rather make the bases at the very top gold or add a gold in the middle over the watchtower.

And I would add ramps facing the gold bases on the top, that would make counterattacks/flanks a lot easier when Terran controls the tower.

Other than that I like it very much. I'd love to have a balanced map that's the shape of Scrap Station in tournaments


in the first version the golds were at the top.

in another 2 versions the gold was in the middle

but after all the testing, it worked out better this way, more of the map gets used, it feels more open and flanking on terran can still happen when they take the middle. Also alot of the players seemed to prefere it (it all flowed better). Also with the gold in the middle it was more imba for terran, coz if they took the middle they had a gold Expo right there backing them up and they wouldnt have to do too much to get to it to protect it from harass.

At least with it on the sides they have to give up the middle somewhat to go back and defend the gold expos.

"you were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!" Micheal Caine
Joseph123
Profile Joined October 2010
Bulgaria1144 Posts
April 22 2011 20:08 GMT
#23
to me it seems like its a better version of scrap station because it is more macro oriented
there are a lot of ways for attack and it really requires a lot of multitasking to cover it all
you need to have a good strategy entering this map
personally i like it a lot cause it seems to me as a macro map ( just played 1 game on it )
BloodreaveZ
Profile Joined May 2010
United States15 Posts
April 30 2011 13:05 GMT
#24
The updated version looks a lot better for sure. Unfortunately I only can find the first version of this map on the NA server, and I was wondering if and when v2.0 is going to be uploaded? I really want to play on it and see how it compares to Scrap Station as it looks like a sick macro-oriented style of that map. Great work btw.
BloodreaveZ
Profile Joined May 2010
United States15 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-30 13:30:58
April 30 2011 13:15 GMT
#25
Sorry, double post.
Archivian
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom362 Posts
April 30 2011 13:44 GMT
#26
On April 30 2011 22:05 BloodreaveZ wrote:
The updated version looks a lot better for sure. Unfortunately I only can find the first version of this map on the NA server, and I was wondering if and when v2.0 is going to be uploaded? I really want to play on it and see how it compares to Scrap Station as it looks like a sick macro-oriented style of that map. Great work btw.


Here is a DL link
if anyone wants to upload to NA servers. Unfortuanately i dont have an account to do it myself.
"you were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!" Micheal Caine
Crais
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada2136 Posts
April 30 2011 16:31 GMT
#27
Im playing on it right now. I like it a lot. I'm not sure if its a bug map side or my side but when I was using a void ray to break down the destructible debris at the gold expansions I could not see any lasers.
RIP MBC Game Hero
Archivian
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom362 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-30 20:46:43
April 30 2011 20:35 GMT
#28
On May 01 2011 01:31 Crais wrote:
Im playing on it right now. I like it a lot. I'm not sure if its a bug map side or my side but when I was using a void ray to break down the destructible debris at the gold expansions I could not see any lasers.


I never had that issue in any of the test matches. And there was alot of tests. So maybe its on ur end?

though is it possible the uploaded map file can be corrupted or something. I really dont know


EDIT:
I was trying to think if i had seen that issue, and i hadn't. Then i realized i had never seen the rox destroyed by voidray, in over 50 test matches.

So i just did it myself and you were right.

This link is an updated and fixed version. I had to change it back to standard rocks As i dont know how to actually fix the issue. I never even knew that could be an issue.

Thanks for bringing it up.

The EU server version has already been updated
"you were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!" Micheal Caine
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