|
[M] (3) Triangle Love Moon
Published on NA.
Update April 27, 2011:
Thanks to Mr. Bitter and CatsPajamas for casting Map of the Month #4! Check out their cast of sixjaxdde vs. ROOTDdoRo on Triangle Love Moon.
Update April 10, 2011:
Triangle Love Moon is a Top 5 finalist in Map of the Month #4 and won the "Most Original" award!
True Facts about Triangle Love Moon
- This map is mainly for 1love1, but you can 1v1 here if you have a heart of coal.
- Rupert Holmes's Escape (The Piña Colada Song) has a line: "If you like making love at midnight, in the dunes on the cape..." that is about this map.
- The Tasteless Bot and Artosis Bot circle the map center, forever computing a route to true love.
Triangle Love Moon is 3 player with rotational and mirror symmetry.
+ Show Spoiler [What?] +If you cut a 120 degree pie from this map and fold it in half, you'll see each pie piece is mirror symmetric. My intention here is to find a 3-player layout unlike rotational maps where the mains and naturals are pointing clockwise or ccw, such that one player has better harass opportunities. It's not like rotationally symmetric maps can't work, but I want to experiment.
Overview
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/H1ZVR.jpg)
Thanks adso for making me a pretty overview!
+ Show Spoiler [Analyzer Summary] +
+ Show Spoiler [Pretty Pic of The Center] +
The natural
I'm trying something new with the natural. There are two chokes between destructible rocks, each choke is two forcefields wide.
+ Show Spoiler [The Natural] +
Dunes
I'm also experimenting with the terrain deform tool and textures to get a dune feature. Real dunes have a side facing the wind that is smooth, and a side away from the wind where sand trickles down with wavy lines.
+ Show Spoiler [A real dune] +I'm not going for realism here, just a unique feature that could be a fun battleground.
+ Show Spoiler [A moon dune] +I couldn't give the dunes a sharp peak, which looks nice, because it made units and buildings do awkward things, so they're toned down a bit.
A lot of people have commented, "you can't use the terrain deform tool, it makes buildings go crazy!" Yes... and no. The terrain in-game morphs flat if you build on it (except floating stuff like pylons which are more likely to be built in the middle areas anyway). Here is a video of building on the dunes, look at the screen and decide if in a real game the morphed terrain would actually distract you; I honestly don't think its a big deal at all.
+ Show Spoiler [Vid of building on and around dunes] +
Rush Distance
main2main: ~155 (probe ~51 sec)
+ Show Spoiler +
nat2nat: ~100 (probe ~33 sec)
+ Show Spoiler +
Tell me what you think!
and lovablemikey, I hope the name of this map lives up to your standards.
|
Hmm. I'm honestly not quite sure what to think about this map. It's certainly unique, and there are features that I instinctively really like, such as your use of both types of symmetry (really clever!), and there are other parts which sort of make me squirm a bit on the inside, like the rocks at the naturals.
I feel like you'd see a lot of short rush games on this map simply because the naturals to me at least seem quite hard to defend, at least early game, and I'd assume that isn't really what you're going for judging by the number of bases on the map.
I'll try and summarize my thoughts - overall I really like it, the middle is really cool, and all of the expansions are placed really nicely. The rush distances look good, despite the quite short nat2nat distance, which leads me on to my next point - the naturals - which are probably my biggest qualm with the map. I can't help but feel they're too unsafe - perhaps extending the 'arms' of the main slightly further so that they meet the outer sets of rocks (so that there are initially only 2 entrances to the natural instead of 4) would be an improvement? The entrance would still be huge after all the rocks are destroyed, but it should be safe enough to encourage expanding a little.
Bear in mind these are just my gut reactions to the images, since it's not on EU yet 
Oh and the dunes are an awesome idea, and when finished I think it could look really sweet. If only terrain deforming didn't mess up with building =/
All in all though I like what I see.
|
Very cool map. I like the dunes and the shape of the main base is pretty cool. I also like how the third/fourth bases are set up, could make for some interesting attack routes.
My only problem (like the guy above me said) is the openness of the natural. Seems like hellions would have an easy time running around your army and roasting your drones. Attaching the main ledges to the outer rocks could work, but I feel like putting in a small chasm in front of the naturals would work better. Once the rocks go down, the map would just be way to open. Zerg would be able to flank any army from multiple directions and forcefields would be far less effective.
Overall though, looks like a great map and I hope it gets popular.
|
Those naturals look ridiculously hard to defend, and if the chokes are destructible as well then... ugh I just don't want to play on this map as a protoss.
|
func, thanks for the input!
I understand your concern with the naturals. I went for wide open nats on my last map also (Premiere) which raised comments. So here's one possible implementation of your suggestion:
+ Show Spoiler [Longer Arms, 2 chokes instead of 4] +
I want to make sure the longer arms aren't pathable so terran doesn't put tanks up on the points and have a super-strong natural. Also, the arms can be a good staging area for drops, especially on the far side from the ramp against Zerg where they are less likely to have creep, so again the arms shouldn't add too much more area to the mains.
I toyed with making the longer arms a double-high cliff, but there are already enough places to hide overlords on the outer edges, so I don't like that approach.
What I do like about the line of rocks outside the natural is that it functions like the pit outside the nat on Xel Naga Caverns--it forms chokes you can see over--except on this map the formation is destructible. Exciting moments could arise when an attacker doesn't have quite enough to overwhelm the natural, so he starts working on the rocks...
|
Looks pretty good, I like the use of the rocks there. Perhaps you could add a few more rocks around the map? It looks a bit open; may be a couple near the Xel'Naga Tower? Just throwing out ideas.
I like the terrain xD well done
It would be very helpful if you could say the time it takes for the nat2nat and main2main distances, rather than just the distance.
|
Okay, toss users, let's consider funcmode's suggestion and improve the natural's defense down to 2 chokes, at least some part of which will be destructible (read, exciting!) Then how tight should the 2 remaining chokes be? Two chokes each a forcefield wide seems too easy to defend. Any complaints about 2 chokes that are two forcefields wide each?
And thanks Yoshi, I put the rush times m2m/n2n (51s/33s) in the OP. That's been on my list to add to the map analyzer FOREVER. D:
|
On March 16 2011 16:15 dimfish wrote:
Okay, toss users, let's consider funcmode's suggestion and improve the natural's defense down to 2 chokes, at least some part of which will be destructible (read, exciting!) Then how tight should the 2 remaining chokes be? Two chokes each a forcefield wide seems too easy to defend. Any complaints about 2 chokes that are two forcefields wide each?
And thanks Yoshi, I put the rush times m2m/n2n (51s/33s) in the OP. That's been on my list to add to the map analyzer FOREVER. D:
Two chokes that are two ffs wide sounds perfect. The nice thing is that you could break down the rocks if you have some roaches or marauders, making it easier to engage a sentry heavy protoss.
|
I like this map, I actually like the destructible rocks outside the naturals, makes for chokes that can be broken and widened, very cool. If anything, I'd maybe fill in some of those areas with actual cliffs and the other areas with rocks so that when the rocks are all destroyed it's not completely open.
For example, if you look at the mains, and the cliffs that extend like a crescent over the naturals, the cliff that is furthest away from the main ramp I think should extend towards the first destructible rock. That way there are only two destructible rocks, I think that would be cooler, just my 2c.
I also like that there are a ton of expansions, well done.
|
I am working on a very similar layout. The mains are the exact same. Just wanted to document that now so that I can differentiate clearly along the way.
+ Show Spoiler +
|
On March 16 2011 18:19 Johanaz wrote:I am working on a very similar layout. The mains are the exact same. Just wanted to document that now so that I can differentiate clearly along the way. + Show Spoiler +
Great minds, Johanaz!
|
dezi
Germany1536 Posts
You used the height tool - you know this suxx once f.e. a T places a rocket tower there. Maybe you could also try to place expansions on this middle pods (like on Athena).
|
That picture with the extended arms immediately puts most of my mind at ease, and I think two entrances about two forcefields wide each would be quite suitable.
With that out of the way, on to some finer points; another thing that bugs me a little is the position of the main ramp in relation to the natural expo itself (i.e. it's behind the expo) which makes the area at the bottom of the ramp, behind the gas, seem very tight, and the distance from the ramp to where the base would actually be quite far.
Another minor thing is the arms themselves, especially if you extend them, and even if you add those doodads to stop them being pathable (which looks a little funky right now) they seem like sort of redundant space (too tight to really place production buildings (from a terran pov)).
With the above two points in mind, I had a little fiddle in photoshop and this was the result (changes made to left main):
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/DCwV5.png)
As you can see, I rotated the natural very slightly, so that access to the main ramp is less restricted, and I cut off access to the ends of the arms. This makes the main a bit more of a standard shape, with some space still for drops. As for what remains of the arms, you could leave them pathable but that might make a thor/tank drop too OP, so perhaps unpathable would be a better idea.
Anyway, just a suggestion, take from it what you will
|
On March 17 2011 02:27 funcmode wrote:That picture with the extended arms immediately puts most of my mind at ease, and I think two entrances about two forcefields wide each would be quite suitable. With that out of the way, on to some finer points; another thing that bugs me a little is the position of the main ramp in relation to the natural expo itself (i.e. it's behind the expo) which makes the area at the bottom of the ramp, behind the gas, seem very tight, and the distance from the ramp to where the base would actually be quite far. Another minor thing is the arms themselves, especially if you extend them, and even if you add those doodads to stop them being pathable (which looks a little funky right now) they seem like sort of redundant space (too tight to really place production buildings (from a terran pov)). With the above two points in mind, I had a little fiddle in photoshop and this was the result (changes made to left main): As you can see, I rotated the natural very slightly, so that access to the main ramp is less restricted, and I cut off access to the ends of the arms. This makes the main a bit more of a standard shape, with some space still for drops. As for what remains of the arms, you could leave them pathable but that might make a thor/tank drop too OP, so perhaps unpathable would be a better idea. Anyway, just a suggestion, take from it what you will
This looks good. You might not even need to cut off the cliffs from the main. As they are, they could easily be abused like the old lost temple. I would reattach them to the main. This way you will keep the unique shape of the mains and still allow for drops without the cliff abuse that zergs have such a hard time dealing with.
|
Awsome name. I like the main base with the extended arms, as it was the natural did seem to open and hard to defend. Also I can only see terran taking the islands, at least for the first stages of a game. Any thought on making them semi islands? Can't really think of anything else other than i really like it. Using mirror symmetry for a 3-spawn map is a great idea. Will definitely go try it out.
|
First of all, epic mikey style name. =D
The new natural with 2 chokes is much more reasonable. It was quite scary before, mostly because of the short nat2nat. I think the way you have it with the spires blocking the tips is fine. It would also be fine like funcmode said, but I think it's more interesting and makes the map stand out if there are wings for drops / hidden tech / proxies.
|
i really like the expansion layout. from a zerg perspective it means that no matter where my opponent is, i can expand away from him. thats a big deal, and i love how you set it up.
i'm of the opinion that you should leave the wings of the mains pathable. if terran wants to put tanks up there it could get annoying, but i feel they add more to the game (spot for hidden tech or proxies) than they take away
|
Have you considered putting the XWT on the highground near the middle. Same style as Monlyth Ridge. There isn't a huge strategic advantage to having the XWT in the middle. Putting it on the highground would cover more ground and make them necessary to hold if they don't want to be caught off guard by a counter while moving out.
|
On March 16 2011 14:43 dimfish wrote:
and lovablemikey, I hope the name of this map lives up to your standards.
And how! Doesn't it feel nice to chuckle every time you read your map names. If only more people knew how great it is. Well done!
The map itself is quite nice. Any map with 120 degree rotational symmetry is a winner in my book. I'm still trying to figure out an efficient way to do it.
My one complaint is the middle area. It looks like the only purpose it holds is to be a pathway to an opponents base. I would like to see the semi-islands along the edges pushed closer to the center of the map, at about the same positions as the superfluous high ground areas. I think that would make for some fun fun action! But what do I know?
|
United States10556 Posts
On March 16 2011 15:53 dimfish wrote:![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/rVGwv.jpg)
This is exactly what you want. now just go it for the rest of the nats.
very nice map though, i quite enjoyed looking at it, although i do disagree with the rocks...
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/CfbRS.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/gq55h.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/77RpL.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/pVale.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/z18BP.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/fmovk.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/EwXwr.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/ksUmM.jpg)
