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(2) Premiere
Published on US.
Replays
Thanks to CaptainHaz for some replays:
+ Show Spoiler [Concept] +A good timing attack takes knowledge of a match-up and skill to develop, but is very easily copied. So I asked myself, "Can a map offer opportunities for an adaptive player to defend against a rotely-executed timing attack?"Good defenders that sniff out a timing attack could set an ambush to snipe key units in the attack, especially if the attacker is just a-moving with no formation. For instance, have you tried sniping the probe against 4 Warp Gate? Backstabs should also be an option when a timing attack dumbly marches out. The absence of watchtowers are also important in this concept. If units for a timing attack rally at a watchtower (Lost Temple) or just touch them on the way to attack (lots of maps) then it is a lot harder for a defender to snipe a key unit or backstab. For this concept to work there should be no towers on the main route and plenty of high ground so the fog of war is relatively "thick." Premiere is built on this basic concept, and then fills it out with some other interesting features.
Thanks to adso for generating a much prettier overview shot for me!
EDIT: Moody and FlaShFTW suggested move main gas to far side to clear up space at the ramp. This is reflected in the above overview image, and in the published map, but not in the following images, because I am too lazy to regenerate them.
+ Show Spoiler [Breakdown of the main and natural] +- Main is ~28CC big. Behind the mineral line there is some unpathable high ground for enemy air units to hide on.
- Entrance to natural is wide but not in degrees (Like Metal, nat is hanging in the wind there). There is space behind the natural to build (offensive/defense).
- The main path leading to the other base.
- A high ground peninsula extends toward the natural. Tanks can hit the CC/nexus/hatch and nearest gas and some minerals. Also a good pylon spot for warp-in. Zerg can hide an overlord on the unpathable cliff right above this stuff to watch on defense, or spy on opponent's natural. There is a smoke screen so the defender can surprise a harass force.
- A "pit cliff" for harassing the edge of the main and the gold. Need sight to keep up the harass.
+ Show Spoiler [The Juicy Island] +Yummy, 8 patches and a watchtower to detect attacks or drops en route against your main, and also keeps an eye on the gold. A siege tank cannot hit workers at the gold from the tower unless they walk to the backside of the minerals.
+ Show Spoiler [Normal Expo in Far Corner] +This high ground expo has some flimsy destructible garages (600hp on big one, little ones are 400hp each) that temporarily create a tighter choke. Early game this is a good hidden expo, but later the garages "doo NAthing" and with sight of high-ground the expo is easily harassed.
+ Show Spoiler [Nydus Push?] +The "Nydus Push" is an idea I don't think will work on any SC2 map I've seen yet. The idea is, - Nydus into the "pit-cliff" first. Bring hydras and roaches, leave lings in the worm.
- Start a second nydus in the main. Use your units in the pit to protect the second nydus during building. You can easily dance around in the pit to evade forces in the main if you decide to abort.
- If you get the second nydus up, send units in the pit into the first head and everything pops out into the main!
This could be great, you can always jump back in the worm to deal with a counter attack at home, then even push again. Some awesome Zerg make this work and perhaps Nydus Push-able areas will appear in more maps. 
+ Show Spoiler [Why is this map called 'Premiere…] +Because it's opening night with a red carpet in the center of the map!
Rush Distance compared to XNC:
Premiere
main2main: 141.6
nat2nat: 123.3
Xel'Naga Caverns
main2main: 149.1
nat2nat: 118.6
dezi asked, "How far apart are the 3rd bases [on Premiere]?"
67.3
P.S. If you like taking new maps for a spin with your friends, send the replay to the mapper! I guarantee you they will reply with hearts because all mappers want is to find out that people play their maps without having to be dragged into it. Do this for all your favorite mappers, and for me send replays to dimfish.mapper@gmail.com.
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How does a wall off function with the gas in the main being so close to the ramp?
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United States10579 Posts
there might be wall-off problem w/ gas. might want to push it back or move it to the other side... also, its kinda not good to put a watchtower at the island... maybe in between the gold and the 4:30
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On January 28 2011 03:19 Moody wrote:
How does a wall off function with the gas in the main being so close to the ramp?
I'll make an image and post it when I get home. I put it close to the ramp to help Zerg, where a spine crawler could help control the top.
I could put the second gas in the back side of the main.
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On January 28 2011 03:34 FlaShFTW wrote:
there might be wall-off problem w/ gas. might want to push it back or move it to the other side... also, its kinda not good to put a watchtower at the island... maybe in between the gold and the 4:30
Why not? I did that on purpose because its new--go get the island! And did you read the concept? I purposefully did not put any towers along the main route between bases to "thicken" the fog of war.
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/4JyDn.gif)
Haha :D
Nat feels very open - but i hope you tested it enough. What's the distance between the 3rds? (Place temporary Startpositions to check). Only think i don't like: the road in front of the nat just end (Blizz needs to add cool road ends ^^).
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I forgot to mention that I haven't shown this map before now, please help me test/improve it!
@Moody
Moved the gas to other side of main, clearing up the ramp, and its in the published version. Wall-ins should be normal now.
@dezi
distance between the thirds is 67.3
Also, I tried several different endings to the roads with Terran Tarmac and plain textures and that bar thing I'm using next to grass and concrete, but all of it looked worse than a straight-up road end. Ugh.
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TBH it just looks like stepes of war 2.0
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since almost every scrap stationesque map has that empty space inbetween mains i think it would be cool if you did something like this + Show Spoiler + you open up those paths and i wonder if this would play well. you would probably have to change some terrain paths etc etc.
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On January 28 2011 05:35 Whiplash wrote:
TBH it just looks like stepes of war 2.0
This is really confusing to me. Premiere is not small, rotationally symmetric, on a jungle tileset, has no towers or LoSB in the center, has no expansions behind destructible rocks, has no "main3-nat2-center1" high ground pattern or basically any resemblance at all to Steppes of War. ?
On January 28 2011 05:36 WniO wrote:since almost every scrap stationesque map has that empty space inbetween mains i think it would be cool if you did something like this + Show Spoiler + you open up those paths and i wonder if this would play well. you would probably have to change some terrain paths etc etc.
A big, 2 expo, harassments-possible island area you say? This could be cool!
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A very nicely made map. Compact to the eye, but spaced out enough to create solid games imo. Good work!
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for aesthetic purposes you may want to rotate the large garage at the 5 o clock high ground expansion so that the door doesnt face the cliff?  .
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I think this map is awesome. It's so simple and looks like loads of fun. I might add some watch towers along the long road to make venturing outside your own area more worth it. Otherwise, cool!
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Thanks!
NastyMarine, I can't seem to rotate the destructible garages, and I think destructible rocks (like those big long ones on Scrap Station) don't rotate either. Oh well.
lovablemikey, I thought your submission to MotM January was simple and cool, too! I noticed all the clever spots you created with LoSB in good positions compared to the watchtowers
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On January 28 2011 11:36 dimfish wrote:
Thanks!
NastyMarine, I can't seem to rotate the destructible garages, and I think destructible rocks (like those big long ones on Scrap Station) don't rotate either. Oh well.
Blizzard added a horizontal and vertical version of the huge rocks with the patch. You might be able to use those instead of trying to rotate the diagonal ones. I used them in my work in progress map Pretty Time Jungle.
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On January 28 2011 12:38 lovablemikey wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2011 11:36 dimfish wrote:
Thanks!
NastyMarine, I can't seem to rotate the destructible garages, and I think destructible rocks (like those big long ones on Scrap Station) don't rotate either. Oh well. Blizzard added a horizontal and vertical version of the huge rocks with the patch. You might be able to use those instead of trying to rotate the diagonal ones. I used them in my work in progress map Pretty Time Jungle.
Which is probably why the analyzer didn't pick them up for you. I know, I know, I have to reconfigure my development environment to get back to work on the analyzer and for whatever reason everything is completely out of whack
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On January 28 2011 06:00 dimfish wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2011 05:35 Whiplash wrote:
TBH it just looks like stepes of war 2.0 This is really confusing to me. Premiere is not small, rotationally symmetric, on a jungle tileset, has no towers or LoSB in the center, has no expansions behind destructible rocks, has no "main3-nat2-center1" high ground pattern or basically any resemblance at all to Steppes of War. ? Show nested quote +On January 28 2011 05:36 WniO wrote:since almost every scrap stationesque map has that empty space inbetween mains i think it would be cool if you did something like this + Show Spoiler + you open up those paths and i wonder if this would play well. you would probably have to change some terrain paths etc etc. A big, 2 expo, harassments-possible island area you say? This could be cool!
Steppes resemblance is mostly that the big path is the main path with all the expansions mostly off to the side, there are some flanking possibilities from the sides, like steppes just amplified a tad here.
If it were my own map i'd probably end up doing something like this:
![[image loading]](http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/7510/premh.png)
to amplify the "the lower path is sort of bad" feeling so that there is reason to use the longer path for more secure pushing, sort of a green advantaged over pink. Like i guess you were going for with the "ambush" concept. This is the way they did most of those dreamliner, RoV, PA style maps in BW, there you also more of a high ground advantage however. The later the game goes the deeper into the map the battles go.
Then again I may be overly obsessed with that sort of pathing.
Right now the main fighting path would just be the main big one (think steppes but not with the side bits so cut off and a bit longer distance) the side bits (3rd and further) feel like they'd be more for dicking around and harassment with the odd flank.
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That "nydus push" idea is never going to happen.
1. 2 nydus worms required, more expensive than drop.
2.You will never ever in a million years be able to "cover" a building nydus from the low ground. It has not nearly enough health. if it is seen then a single volley will kill it instantly from far beyond hydra range, if it isn't seen you're better off just building one worm right into the main....
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I'm concerned about the XWT at the island. To me, that would favor Terran. If they have that XWT in control, they can see Overlords, and if they kill them, can have air control from main to main. Zerg wouldn't see the drop until it's in his main.
I like the concept of the map. I like where the third is located, and how there is no definite fourth for each player. The only problem I have is the XWT location. If you want to have it give sight into the gold, then simply just put it on the ground in between the two ramps and back it up to the wall of the gold.
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I think the concept overall is interesting, but difficult. I did something similar with my map (2) Tendency and I think there are some similarities that are similar weaknesses:
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/rsmG9.jpg) sorry for putting my map mage into your thread, but I think it helps to discuss the principal problems in scrapstation-like maps.
sorry about talking about my own map, but it really is similar.
First there is a central expansion, that is brutal to hold. First I was thinking making it gold, but then I made it a triple vespene. My concept was, that there were other expansions the opponent could take (even more extually) when not going for the central expansion. Giving away a high yield expansion though is more difficult thang giving away a triple vespene.
Second point is the island, that I do not like in general but that is understandable in such a layout, because it is difficult fit in two extra pathes towards the north east corner. still it might be possible to have two pathes and two expansions back there.
Other problems I think I can find in your map from analyzing it only visual (cannot play it): the natural is a bit too open and the movement from nat to nat is just really boring.
My suggestion is to remove the island, make the gold easier to hold (one ramp ony probably?) and change path between basis to make it more interesting, like extra low- or highground somewhere.
also get the XN into the centre. Probably take a look into (2)Tendency.I want to rework it and so have some similar problems 
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