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Ver 0.1 (publiced on EU)
Overview
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Map Spec:
- In 1v1, players start at the at the greatest possible distance to one another - 1 and 7 o'clock.
- As a 2vs2 map one ally starts closer to the enemy, but has a natural expo on the same platform as the main. The other ally has a more traditional and easily defended natural expo.
- All mains have DSR- backdoors. The air distance to the enemy is close. Will you open your backdoor for a shorter ground distance to the enemy and access to the additional expos?
- 4 gold expos positioned at 12, 6 and centre of the map. The golds at 12 and 6 lack vespene.
- 4 Xel'Naga towers overlook the low ground main paths and 12, 6 o'clock backdoor areas.
- 1n 2v2 your DSR backdoor is very close to the DSR backdoor of the enemy!
- The map is published on EU and NA (in NA there is an older version, only EU is updated often).
Additional Info:
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- The map has several potential hotspots. The area aroudn the backdoors have a possible third and a gold, but without gas! The full gold expos are in the map centre.
- at 6 and 12, there is a cliff-walk/jump backdoor to the main of player 2 (on each team) covered in vision blockers. This will make it harder for terran to siege tank-defend the gold and ramp (or assault those). Any unit on that platform will be blind, unless having shared vision with a unit outside.
- the 4 and 7 o'clock mains have narrow passages leading to cliff-walking/jumping backdoors.
Map Analyser Images
- Shortest Path between 7 and 1 -
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- Shortest Path between 10 and 4 -
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Detail Images
+ Show Spoiler +SE Main ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/Ighqx.jpg) South Goldmine North Nat
Replay Download:
1v1 diamond/master
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don't like the blue fog. other than that it looks nice !! 
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Very interesting map, in 1v1 does people start on 1-1 and 2-2 exlusively? I mean it would suck if they spawn on 1-2, but it would be really great if in 1v1 they was 2 different ways to play the same map depending on the spawn points, and of course they have to be cross positions only to be balanced.
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Thanks. In 1vs1 players always start at the 'red 2' locations. I don't know if I could perhaps add a custom variant (such as '1v1 short dist') that allows players to start at the 1 locations i 1on1.
I just noticed my map published by PARADOXX for a map collection. That would be all fine, if I'd agreed to it. The guy didn't ask, though ... and he/she changed the lighting :-/ I don't know what to think or what to do about it
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On January 04 2011 03:20 Meltage wrote:
I just noticed my map published by PARADOXX for a map collection. That would be all fine, if I'd agreed to it. The guy didn't ask, though ... and he/she changed the lighting :-/ I don't know what to think or what to do about it
Looks like he didn´t ask any of us. Join us over here and we´ll figure out what to do about it.
/Edit: Nice map
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Thanks
Actually, I'd love some constructive crticism. Its currently on the list anyways, so there woudlbn't be a problem testing it out atm, on EU.
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Yeah, well I´m only qualified for giving visual feedback, and don´t think you need any help in that department. It´s pretty obvious that you got the skills.
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I want to comment on this map, but I'm not entirely sure what to say about it gameplay-wise because it's a 2v2 map, and I am not very comfortable with those, both playing on them and discussing balance on them. I will say that the high yields at the 12 and 6 are rather safe as far as high yield expansions go, and I would probably change them to standard expansions. The other thing that I will say is that this map is beautiful  Nice Job!
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@@Johanaz
Thanks. I'm not done withthe visuals, though. I need more doodading and I'm not sure the white fog is enough for the super low (non-playable) ground next to the mains. I had ruined structures there at first, but removed them beacuse I felt they didn't fit in with the desert/volcano theme. Any suggestions on the visuals is welcome. Even details!
Originally, I aimed for something close to Blistering Sands in theme.
@@Antares777
Thank you for commenting although you didn't know what to say about it Serioussly, I consider it a 1on1 map also and would love to balance it for both 1v1 and 2v2. Do you think 4 gold expos are too much for 1on1? Is the distance between the + Show Spoiler + mains too far?
The 6 and 12 gold are too safe you think? I'm afraid ppl wont expand there if there isn't a gold. Also, the fact that both players have the opponent backdoor so close by would make it a hotspot. Would it still be, if it wasn't a gold expo?
I have a crazy idea. Study this image while you read my suggestion below:
The overview image
I' could remove the natural inside the no 1 players mains and turn the centre gold expos into normal expos. Those would then become naturals for the no 1 players (only in 2v2). I would then adjust the curtain by the 6 and 12 golds and the position of the gold to be equally accessible for both no. 1 and 2 players (by their backdoors). This way, there would only be two gold expos in 1v1, which is the norm. And the centre expos woudl still be attractive, even though they're not gold. What do you guys think?
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Been working on terrain decoration and visual candy. The map is fully decorated (but not final). The update is on EU only atm. No gameplay changes have been made, though.
![[image loading]](http://www.mentalbalans.se/aggedesign/img/AshenSands_detail_visual_SouthGold.jpg)
The current full overview image:
link
Prior to the map update, I got fevax and Ike to play my map!
I havn't been able to youtube 'em yet, but I uploaded the replays. fevax is in master and Ike is in diamond.
Anyone feel free to comment on the matches!
Replay Download:
Ashen Sands - ZvT Master fevax vs Diamond Ike - G1
Ashen Sands - ZvT Master fevax vs Diamond Ike - G2
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On February 01 2011 05:59 Meltage wrote:
Been working on terrain decoration and visual candy. The map is fully decorated (but not final). The update is on EU only atm. No gameplay changes have been made, though.
Wow, some of details on this map are really aesthetically appealing.
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As I said u got the skills  - have you figured out how to combine textures from different tilesets yet?
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On February 01 2011 06:07 Johanaz wrote:As I said u got the skills - have you figured out how to combine textures from different tilesets yet?
Thanks! Yeah you can replace any of the 8 ( I think thats the number ) textures that comes with a tileset, but there is no way that I know of, how to do additional textures past the 8 
For this map, I replaced only one texture late production to get lava cracks instead of concrete.
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Cross positions look to be a nightmare. that rush distance is SO LONG. but i agree, the texturing is impressive.
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On February 01 2011 07:14 WniO wrote:
Cross positions look to be a nightmare. that rush distance is SO LONG. but i agree, the texturing is impressive.
Thanks. About the texturing, I'm not entiredly satisfied beacuse I still think Blistering Sands looks better.
Rush distance ... I've heard players say that the bliz maps have too short rush distances for balanced play. From main ramp to main ramp (long rush distance, in 1v1) is 174, kind of. In 2v2 the main concept is to have a long distance for one ally, a short for the other. Also there are the backdoors that provide shorter distnace (well, not rush distance since there are rocks). The players I had testing 1v1 said the distance was fine.
Do you ppl agree that the typical rush distances on bliz maps are too short balanced play? Even so, might the long rush distance be bad for my map and why?
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The long rush distance makes timing your attacks difficult. If you try to move out so that your attack coincides with a tech unit completing or an upgrade finishing, there's more of a delay before the attack actually occurs. Moreover, a map like this is very ungainly to position on. (Not necessarily bad, but...) If a slow army (like marine/tank) moves out and gets half way across, it will be very nasty if a counterattack happens. This would make me think that players will try to get their three bases and defend them before any major attacks, favouring harassment options.
Can you spawn NW/SE? I would only have the long corner spawns for 1v1. I fear the close corners game would be a coin flip where an all-in attack off 2bases punishes someone getting the outlying gold soon enough, or doesn't and gets trounced. Still suffering from that problem with long maps where you can be overly punished for moving out by a fortunate harass timing. Besides that, having an inbase natural is quite different for balance. I think it might be too much given a ramp to protect it.
The visuals are very impressive though! That screenshot a few posts up is epic.
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@@EatThePath - no you never spawn NW/SE in 1v1. The cautal tactics you describe is something that is clearly encouraged. Do you think that is bad for a map in general? Thanks for giving opinions! Too few do.
So I've made another huge update. To make the map more fitting to 1v1 play, I have remade the NW and SE naturals to more of a seperate base on lower ground .. so it now has a ramp entrance.
The SE main plus nat
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Also, I added some more decoration in the NW corner. A purely visual change, no gameplay area.
NW corner
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UPDATE:
forgot to add .. I removed the vespene gas from the far north and south gold expos. So those are only 6 high yield mineral fields.
I noticed during 1v1 testing that the centre gold was never taken, while the far south and north expos were almost always taken once they were spotted, beacuse they were relatively easy to defend.
Do you thnk the map looks good for 1v1, or is it purely a 2v2 map with a twist?
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The level of detail in the map is amazing, very nicely done.
I'm not such a big fan of some of the texturing, using a manmade texture (like concrete) showing though a natural earth texture always looks wrong to me. Patches of earth showing through the manmade texture to give an impression that it is worn away in places and give a much more "real" look and is a better way of doing it I think. A small complaint really.
In terms of layout I would say that a couple of the ramps in the middle of the map need to widened a little, it's got a awful lot of very narrow chokepoints. I will also echo what you already noticed with the north and south gold expos, they seem a little too easy to defend and too far away from the opposition to be gold with gas,
But it really is one of the best looking maps I've seen, in places it looks truly spectacular.
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@@Kazang Thanks for the praise. You bring up an interresting point about texturing principles. In my case, I use metal ground at several places that shows through the natural ground - the concept is that there are hiden manmade structures beneath, and the 'roof' showing through the sand or dirt. Perhaps I have to mix in some manmade cliffs to make it more convincing? No complaint is too small if I can make it better
I can see why the middle should have wider ramps, as the NW and SE mains must have smaller ramps, even in 1on1 - which gives the general impression of many chokes. An easy fix would be to widen the centre NE and SW ramps, then widen the path to the far south / far north some. However, it makes the expos there harder to defend. And I don't know if that's good or bad.
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Hey op, sorry in advance for being so outlandish but i decided to turn your map into a 1v1 map to make it way better
![[image loading]](http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/4531/revamped.png)
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@@ Akill_
LOL! Youi're welcome as long as suggestions go. Glad someone takes the time to think about the 1v1 aspect and some minutes in paint However your suggestion lacks a motivation. WHY is it better?
How come you don't remove the other mains and kept the 1 and 7 o'clock? The rush distance in this example is 144 between mains (while the long rush distance is 174 between nats). Isn't a short rush distance way more inbalanced?
I think it's possible to add a game mode to the map where you choose this variant of start locations for 1v1 if you want to (just as Faxe suggested in the second post) That would be something you setup in the lobby. Bnet wouldn't count the map as melee, though.
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On February 01 2011 19:23 Meltage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2011 07:14 WniO wrote:
Cross positions look to be a nightmare. that rush distance is SO LONG. but i agree, the texturing is impressive. Thanks. About the texturing, I'm not entiredly satisfied beacuse I still think Blistering Sands looks better. Rush distance ... I've heard players say that the bliz maps have too short rush distances for balanced play. From main ramp to main ramp (long rush distance, in 1v1) is 174, kind of. In 2v2 the main concept is to have a long distance for one ally, a short for the other. Also there are the backdoors that provide shorter distnace (well, not rush distance since there are rocks). The players I had testing 1v1 said the distance was fine. Do you ppl agree that the typical rush distances on bliz maps are too short balanced play? Even so, might the long rush distance be bad for my map and why?
well despite complains what everyone says about layout blizz maps are actually decorated superbly, (so dont get down yall.) I really like the complimentary colors with the blue fog/desert setting. the rush distances might be fine as i havent played it yet, but im not entirely sure where players spawn, because it looks like some players get a third gold base while others get a regular base for their third.
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@@WniO you can try the map on NA - an older version but no huge changes.
players spawn top left and bottom right in 1v1. In 2v2 players spawn at the white circle locations marked on the overview image. One ally then has a gold third (or nat if you want to risk it) ... the short rush distance is 144 between mains (only in 2v2) and the long is 174 between the nats.
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ah cool. will do at some point
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/CdNE0.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/il99T.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://static.sc2mapster.com/content/images/29/77/AshenSands-shortestPaths-7-1-nats.png)
![[image loading]](http://static.sc2mapster.com/content/images/29/78/AshenSands-shortestPaths-10-4.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/V3hID.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/asTZo.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.mentalbalans.se/aggedesign/img/AshenSands_detail_SEmain.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.mentalbalans.se/aggedesign/img/AshenSands_detail_visual_NorthDeco.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img842.imageshack.us/i/revamped.png/)
