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![[image loading]](http://a.imageshack.us/img641/1555/enigmathreadbanner.jpg)
Enigma is the first map of a series of five to be released between Sept. and Oct. 2010. The title comes from the song “The Enigma of Torments” by Archons. It is a 4 player macro-oriented map with large rush distances.
Search "iCCup" to play.
View on prodiGsc.com for all latest info, updates, changes and more!
Version 1.1
![[image loading]](http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7922/4enigma11.jpg)
Features
-Safe natural
-Alternate route to natural blocked by destructible rocks
-Close 3rd base. Was originally intended to have only one High Yield Geyser but HY Geysers have the pathing bug and I cannot fix it :<
-Xel’Naga Towers around the center providing vision over key areas of the map
-Center has 12 Rich Mineral Patches with 500 minerals in each, as well as 4 Vespene Geysers all blocked by a destructible rock. This is intended for super (120min) lategame.
-Center is unbuildable
Version 1.1 is up!
Changes:
+ Show Spoiler +-Moved the Xel'Naga towers so they don't watch the exit from the third, but rather the lane units walk down around the center. -Made the center unbuildable except for the area where you place the town hall, and four 2x2 spaces around the town hall for defensive buildings -Dropped the Gold mineral fields down to 500 per patch from the original 750 -Dropped the center geysers down to 1500 per geyser from the original 2500 ![[image loading]](http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/9223/sc2editor20100914213003.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/6793/enigma11changes34.jpg)
http://www.prodiGsc.com - I will be posting all of my maps and anything else SC related here. This website will contain the most up-to-date information for all of my creations. It is currently under construction (lol aesthetics?) however there is some content there already. Check it out!
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To be honest I think this is the best looking map you have done. It also has a relatively wide centre good for flanking as Zerg. I can't wait to try this map out. To bad I don't think its on SEA 
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On September 09 2010 17:11 WarChimp wrote:To be honest I think this is the best looking map you have done. It also has a relatively wide centre good for flanking as Zerg. I can't wait to try this map out. To bad I don't think its on SEA
Thank you. Currently it's only on US, but I plan on publishing it on other realms once I am content with the feedback from the community and any changes I may make.
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Looks great!
I'm trying to find something bad to say about it, but can't really seem to find anything 
Which "close third" did you want to have the HY geyser? The one connected to the natural through the destructible rocks, or the other one?
I like the middle. The LoS blockers are negated if you control the watch towers, but it makes for a nice dynamic. Can you drop units/build on those ridges around the gold? Siege on there would suck.
Nice overlord parking spots anyway. Also nice for reapers to stop Zerglings from moving out. Pretty much their only use though...
How big is that main, 2 tumors to connect it with the natural?
Would be a funny lategame, terran camping the middle gold with PF's and Zerg taking the rest of the map and Sauron Zerg'ing in there. Could be a UMS, hehe
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Awesome looking map. I love how it's huge and heavily macro oriented. It has minimal chokes, wide flanking routes and more expansions than I've ever seen on a 1v1 map in sc2. I'd love to see maps like this become more common.
I also like the size of the mains, they look roughly the same size as Xel'naga Caverns, which I think is perfect.
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I love your maps, and this one starts off well by have easy to take 3rds and 4ths, which could create fun, macro games, but a couple of things i really dont like about this map.
A) the middle expo is ridiculous. It is pretty much an instant win to whoever can take it, and thus if a player gains any sort of map or positional control, they have almost no chance to lose, and the defending player has no chance for a comeback (in high level play). This applies to every map with double expos, especially double GOLD expos.
B) destructible rocks are meh, not a biggie
C) the layout is like so many 4 player maps, where the path to attack the other player is too one dimensional, and leaves few options for positional decision making.
IMO you make great maps, but I REALLY would like to see you make more 2 player maps instead of 4. 2 player maps allow for much greater variety and dont have the RNG factor, imagine how much better metalopolis/lt games would be if you could only spawn cross positions. The games would last longer, and you would see more skill based games, and less 1 base all ins.
I think good map design will dictate the style of game-play sc2 takes, and eliminating maps with close spawn chances would be a good step. <- doesnt necessarily apply to THIS one, but yeah
EDIT: may have came off harsh, overall i still love it, and its better than most if not all but xel naga in the current pool
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
You can place pathing blockers around the high yield gas to prevent the pathing bug. Map itself looks very good. I like the fact it's not another Bel'Shir map.
Some questions i have:
-is the high ground in the mid climbable (reapers/...)?
-can reapers get from the blocked expansion to your main by taking the path opposite to the nat (the path close to the river)?
-can you make a side view? ^^
-when will this map be available at EU? (this is the first map i really want to play and i like it much more then your Fighting Spirit port)
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the middle expo is ridiculous. It is pretty much an instant win to whoever can take it, and thus if a player gains any sort of map or positional control, they have almost no chance to lose, and the defending player has no chance for a comeback (in high level play). This applies to every map with double expos, especially double GOLD expos.
If fighting spirit taught us anything it's that middle expos are something you can afford to take/hold in the mid game while only having a slight advantage over your opponent, am I right?
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oh wow, a LOT of questions to answer! i'll quote your post and put my answer in bold i guess
On September 09 2010 17:29 NeoLearner wrote:Looks great! I'm trying to find something bad to say about it, but can't really seem to find anything Which "close third" did you want to have the HY geyser? The one connected to the natural through the destructible rocks, or the other one? The "other one", out in the open.I like the middle. The LoS blockers are negated if you control the watch towers, but it makes for a nice dynamic. Can you drop units/build on those ridges around the gold? Siege on there would suck. Nice overlord parking spots anyway. Also nice for reapers to stop Zerglings from moving out. Pretty much their only use though... yes, but you cannot cliffwalk up directly behind the TowersHow big is that main, 2 tumors to connect it with the natural? yes! i am for 2-3 on all of my maps.Would be a funny lategame, terran camping the middle gold with PF's and Zerg taking the rest of the map and Sauron Zerg'ing in there. Could be a UMS, hehe that was kind of the intention :D
On September 09 2010 17:46 danson wrote:
I love your maps, and this one starts off well by have easy to take 3rds and 4ths, which could create fun, macro games, but a couple of things i really dont like about this map.
A) the middle expo is ridiculous. It is pretty much an instant win to whoever can take it, and thus if a player gains any sort of map or positional control, they have almost no chance to lose, and the defending player has no chance for a comeback (in high level play). This applies to every map with double expos, especially double GOLD expos.
if a player gets positional or map control they could double expand for the same income over a longer period of time. The gold has only 750 minerals per patch so your economy would explode for awhile, but if your opponent was able to draw it out long enough he'd be able to break even (mathematically speaking)
B) destructible rocks are meh, not a biggie
C) the layout is like so many 4 player maps, where the path to attack the other player is too one dimensional, and leaves few options for positional decision making.
IMO you make great maps, but I REALLY would like to see you make more 2 player maps instead of 4. 2 player maps allow for much greater variety and dont have the RNG factor, imagine how much better metalopolis/lt games would be if you could only spawn cross positions. The games would last longer, and you would see more skill based games, and less 1 base all ins.
metal and LT are both mirrored symmetry, whereas this is rotational. This creates a significant change in the way players expand, since two out of the three places your opponent can spawn are just about the same. I have three 1v1 maps in my "set of five"
I think good map design will dictate the style of game-play sc2 takes, and eliminating maps with close spawn chances would be a good step. <- doesnt necessarily apply to THIS one, but yeah
EDIT: may have came off harsh, overall i still love it, and its better than most if not all but xel naga in the current pool
On September 09 2010 17:55 dezi wrote:You can place pathing blockers around the high yield gas to prevent the pathing bug. Map itself looks very good. I like the fact it's not another Bel'Shir map. i still wish the bug didn't exist Some questions i have: -is the high ground in the mid climbable (reapers/...)? yes, but not directly behind the XWT-can reapers get from the blocked expansion to your main by taking the path opposite to the nat (the path close to the river)? no-can you make a side view? ^^ what do you mean?-when will this map be available at EU? (this is the first map i really want to play and i like it much more then your Fighting Spirit port) i will get it published once i feel like the map doesn't need to be changed anymore. I think it's pretty close now, but time will tell.
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Finally a good map from you ProdiG
At least, this map gives a gameplay totally different from actual blizz maps, so much money
can you give the dimensions of the map and the time from main to main with a peon?
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On September 09 2010 18:14 Superouman wrote:Finally a good map from you ProdiG At least, this map gives a gameplay totally different from actual blizz maps, so much money can you give the dimensions of the map and the time from main to main with a peon?
finally a good map from me? o_o
dimensions are 168x164 i think, probe takes 35sec to go from ramp to ramp horizontal/vertical and 40sec cross position
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On September 09 2010 18:14 Superouman wrote:
Finally a good map from you ProdiG
A little harsh. ProdiG makes good maps, but this would probably be one of his better ones
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which set of five? links plox?
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
I want a Game Angle View (currently there only is a Top Down). That's what i meant (sorry ^^). Ah and which texture set is this?
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nice macro map. i like it a lot over the ones we're forced to play ><
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why o why we dont have a maps like that in ladder....
seriously Blizzard should hire you 
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I dislike the low ground expansion right outside of the natural. It's far too easy to take and not even a mineral only like in one of your other maps. Compare this to something like Othello in Brood War. The third base with gas is relatively close by, perhaps as close as the one here, but it's extremely easy to harass and is dangerous to take. Here, the third base is very closeby, (along with a relatively close 4th base as well) and it's easily defendable. Makes a bad combination imo.
Also, the middle looks a tad on the tight side.
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Nice. What I like about rotational symmetry is the (on this map) 4th base, the one on the high ground with destructible rocks. If your opponent spawns on either side of you (2/3 chance) there's high probability this base will be contested, as who it "belongs" to will be affected by spawning positions.
I know some people will claim that the 3rd is "too close" or "easy" to take, but IMO that is bullshit. Sure, terrans can tank up and defend it as well as their nat. But in the meantime, Zerg and Protoss can grab the entire map. So that is not a balance issue, in my opinion, it is a design decision saying that you want this to be a macro map, which I like.
I am usually negative towards destructible rocks in general, but I think the role of the rocks in this map is quite good. That said I am not 100% sure.
Another thing I am not 100% sure of is the middle expansion. I have heard some people claim that bases in the very middle of the map can lead to one sided games. But on the other hand, it can of course lead to conflict over the area, which would be very cool. That said I am not sure if there actually needs to be an expansion there or not, but of course its your map and your decision. Personally I would consider other ways to draw contest over the area, such as repositioning the watchtower(s) to be more in the center inside the walls.
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I think its quite an improvement to your other maps. 2 points.
I have mixed feelings about the fact that theres bigger distances base-to-base, but the center is quite small, forcing the players into rather choky area. It may turn out good but im not sure about that.
Also im splitted about the flat path between the bases. it has worked for metalopolis pretty well, but it might get boring after a while.
the thing i really dislike is the gold expo. the reason that it seems to contrict movement and flanking options, because its taking the largest part of the center. The center layout could make up for some nice flanking and stuff, but if its blocked by gold minerals it seems to more and more force players in a straight up fight at the one flat path (unless cross positions).
The los blockers could come in rally handily if the center was opened for flanking / feinting / by-passing
otherwise aesthetics are nice, but not overdone in center area. wich is imo, the way it should be.
greetings,
madsquare.
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Very very nice, it looks a lot like fighting spirit but seems more adapted to SC2. I also like the fact that the map is pretty big.
And thank you there is no destructible rocks on every expo !!
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wow looks absolutely sweet!
absolutely one of the best (if not THE best?!) of your maps so far!
would love to see it on the EU server as soon as possible :X
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This map is seriously wicked. Very BW esque, which is what I love. Continue up the hard work and I hope (if) Blizzard incorporates user made maps into the ladder they take a hard look at yours.
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I'm a bit skeptical when it comes to the rotational symmetry. One would assume that if two players spawn next to each other, the player on the clockwise side has an advantage for a number of reasons.
First, they have much quicker and more practical access to their opponents destructible rocks, and air units can move straight into their opponents main uncontested. By contrast, for the anti-clockwise player, in order to harass the opponents destructible entrance their units must travel a lot further, and if they make air units, they either have to fly straight over the players natural or take a much longer route to the opponents main.
I'm also unsure about the middle. Because it's so tight around the gold expo, players at cross-positions are almost forced to use the outside paths to efficiently move about the map. To me the entire middle section seems to just get in the way more than it should.
And yeah, I think having a 12-patch, 4 gas expo is a bit retarded regardless of where it's located, given how easily Terran can protect their expansions in comparison to the other races. In other words, planetary fortress a bit imbalanced here, no?
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Hyrule18993 Posts
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This and all your maps look sweet. Hopefully some tournament starts using them :D
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GOD DAMN BC RUSH SO STACKED
here i am thinking "oh yeah, i'll just chrono some stalkers and get pylon blocked a hundred times and i'll be okay"
t.t
Thanks for the feedback everyone
On September 09 2010 18:52 danson wrote:
which set of five? links plox?
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=149229 Sketches are there~
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Hyrule18993 Posts
On September 10 2010 01:22 funcmode wrote:
I'm a bit skeptical when it comes to the rotational symmetry. One would assume that if two players spawn next to each other, the player on the clockwise side has an advantage for a number of reasons.
First, they have much quicker and more practical access to their opponents destructible rocks, and air units can move straight into their opponents main uncontested. By contrast, for the anti-clockwise player, in order to harass the opponents destructible entrance their units must travel a lot further, and if they make air units, they either have to fly straight over the players natural or take a much longer route to the opponents main.
I'm also unsure about the middle. Because it's so tight around the gold expo, players at cross-positions are almost forced to use the outside paths to efficiently move about the map. To me the entire middle section seems to just get in the way more than it should.
And yeah, I think having a 12-patch, 4 gas expo is a bit retarded regardless of where it's located, given how easily Terran can protect their expansions in comparison to the other races. In other words, planetary fortress a bit imbalanced here, no?
Honestly, we never got that far into the game (because prodiG sucks  ) to test that out, but...build 1 air unit?
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I love the windmill pattern. It allows a player to expand away from the opponent no matter the positions, unlike Metalopolis.
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I was wondering when you were going to make your next map, it's like you vanished for a week from the forums or something.
I <3 this map.
I like the positions of the thirds, very creative thinking putting them there, in front of the naturals. IMHO if you are going to have each base have fourths as well, a high-yield center is not needed at all. 16 bases is plenty, if not already too many.
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On September 10 2010 05:52 tofucake wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 01:22 funcmode wrote:
I'm a bit skeptical when it comes to the rotational symmetry. One would assume that if two players spawn next to each other, the player on the clockwise side has an advantage for a number of reasons.
First, they have much quicker and more practical access to their opponents destructible rocks, and air units can move straight into their opponents main uncontested. By contrast, for the anti-clockwise player, in order to harass the opponents destructible entrance their units must travel a lot further, and if they make air units, they either have to fly straight over the players natural or take a much longer route to the opponents main.
I'm also unsure about the middle. Because it's so tight around the gold expo, players at cross-positions are almost forced to use the outside paths to efficiently move about the map. To me the entire middle section seems to just get in the way more than it should.
And yeah, I think having a 12-patch, 4 gas expo is a bit retarded regardless of where it's located, given how easily Terran can protect their expansions in comparison to the other races. In other words, planetary fortress a bit imbalanced here, no? Honestly, we never got that far into the game (because prodiG sucks ) to test that out, but...build 1 air unit?
I call your 1 air unit, and I raise you... two missile turrets.
Seriously though, I've seen countless games where attacking and failing to destroy a planetary fortress turns out to be the turning point in a game (and that's just a normal mineral base). I'm not saying planetary fortresses are impossible to destroy, or even necessarily overpowered - however, Terran without a doubt are the strongest race when it comes to defending a single expansion, so making a map with a single super-powerful expansion could well be quite imbalanced for this very reason. Especially given the relatively tight entrances to the expo and the fact that the base would be surrounded on all sides by mineral patches and geysers making attacking it harder in the first place. I think it would be wise to revise the design.
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Moving the triangle pieces from the center cliffs may relieve some of the tightness in the center. Constricting the center really seems to be their only purpose anyway.
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On September 10 2010 06:29 Antares777 wrote:
I was wondering when you were going to make your next map, it's like you vanished for a week from the forums or something.
I <3 this map.
I like the positions of the thirds, very creative thinking putting them there, in front of the naturals. IMHO if you are going to have each base have fourths as well, a high-yield center is not needed at all. 16 bases is plenty, if not already too many.
I took a break from mapmaking to play races that weren't Terran so I could improve my design and mapmaking skill.
As far as the center is concerned, I'm going to leave it until I see some high-level play really abusing it. I may consider dropping it from 750 minerals/patch to 500, but we'll see.
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It looks a bit like zodiac, with the 3rd positioned there. Zodiac's center was open though....
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On September 10 2010 01:21 setzer wrote:
This map is seriously wicked. Very BW esque, which is what I love. Continue up the hard work and I hope (if) Blizzard incorporates user made maps into the ladder they take a hard look at yours.
I hope they do too :D
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wooow - I love this Map!
I want it in the ladder-mappool NOW!
maybe make the entrance to the main a little smaller?... For Z, It's really not as safe as the one on, let's say LT (if it wasn't for the cliff), cuz it's kinda hard to def with spine crawlers...
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On September 10 2010 13:44 kickinhead wrote:
wooow - I love this Map!
I want it in the ladder-mappool NOW!
maybe make the entrance to the main a little smaller?... For Z, It's really not as safe as the one on, let's say LT (if it wasn't for the cliff), cuz it's kinda hard to def with spine crawlers...
the ramp is the same size as the blizz maps o_o
it looks bigger because that cliff's ramp has a large bezel on the sides ^^
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Macromanagement focused map? Hell yes, will give it a try! This looks pretty sweet.
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Once again prodiG , another sexy map. GJ
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Looks a bit like Fighting Spirit, very detailed and neat, probably not a single misplaced doodad. But I just got one minor problem, the middle area. I'm not a fan of the dual rich expansion. And... I can't help myself but 'the four cliffs' in the middle looks like something men got between their legs. There, now I've said it lol.
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Hyrule18993 Posts
On September 10 2010 06:04 Acritter wrote:
I love the windmill pattern. It allows a player to expand away from the opponent no matter the positions, unlike Metalopolis.
Yeah, it's totally not a swastika.
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Hyrule18993 Posts
On September 10 2010 11:07 NiTrOuS wrote:
It looks a bit like zodiac, with the 3rd positioned there. Zodiac's center was open though....
Honestly...I don't see it. I still think it looks more like Gaia or FS than anything else.
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Hyrule18993 Posts
On September 10 2010 14:54 prodiG wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 13:44 kickinhead wrote:
wooow - I love this Map!
I want it in the ladder-mappool NOW!
maybe make the entrance to the main a little smaller?... For Z, It's really not as safe as the one on, let's say LT (if it wasn't for the cliff), cuz it's kinda hard to def with spine crawlers... the ramp is the same size as the blizz maps o_o it looks bigger because that cliff's ramp has a large bezel on the sides ^^
I think he meant "nat". Anyway, it does seem a little open, but with 1 tumor you can move your Spines far enough forward to protect the entire entrance.
Also, what's with those triangles? They weren't on beta 0.1/0.2 :|
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On September 10 2010 19:17 tofucake wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 14:54 prodiG wrote:On September 10 2010 13:44 kickinhead wrote:
wooow - I love this Map!
I want it in the ladder-mappool NOW!
maybe make the entrance to the main a little smaller?... For Z, It's really not as safe as the one on, let's say LT (if it wasn't for the cliff), cuz it's kinda hard to def with spine crawlers... the ramp is the same size as the blizz maps o_o it looks bigger because that cliff's ramp has a large bezel on the sides ^^ I think he meant "nat". Anyway, it does seem a little open, but with 1 tumor you can move your Spines far enough forward to protect the entire entrance. Also, what's with those triangles? They weren't on beta 0.1/0.2 :|
I felt like the center was a little too open and lacking so I added it and decided I liked it :p
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By the way prodiG did Blizzard get back to you about your job as level designer or something? I think it was you, you posted in a blog about you becoming the lead map designer or something.
Did they get back to you?
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On September 11 2010 03:44 WarChimp wrote:
By the way prodiG did Blizzard get back to you about your job as level designer or something? I think it was you, you posted in a blog about you becoming the lead map designer or something.
Did they get back to you?
i got turned down for lead level designer and level designer (understandably, both are jobs you need degrees or something for) but i'm waiting on associate level designer
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Hyrule18993 Posts
I remember someone in an interview saying that the way to get hired by Blizzard was to spam applications (not all at once, but if you get rejected apply again and again and again etc).
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@prodiG
If Blizzard hired you, do you think the map pool would be better (sorry that u didn't get the job )?
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On September 09 2010 17:46 danson wrote:A) the middle expo is ridiculous. It is pretty much an instant win to whoever can take it, and thus if a player gains any sort of map or positional control, they have almost no chance to lose, and the defending player has no chance for a comeback (in high level play). This applies to every map with double expos, especially double GOLD expos.
Nah, it only has 750 per patch. This means it's the equivalent of a standard gold expo on regular Blizzard maps. You get the same overall income as you would from Lost Temple gold, in other words. The difference is that it takes more workers to set up quickly, 24 instead of 12, and you get a hightened income for a brief amount of time. The higher cost of setting it up, the Xel'Naga towers watching it, and the multiple attack angles on it make it just fine. The aggressor has the advantage at this expansion.
One of the parts I really like about it is that the minerals aren't pushed up against the cliff edges, which means you can kill workers/gas without worrying about a PF shooting you. Especially with all those angles you can get on them. You don't always have to kill the PF, yah? Sidestepping is a great tactic. As for the doubters, the center is actually pretty open. I fit an entire 200/200 T army in a single exit lane inside and behind the line of sight blockers for that center gold pretty easy. There were still 3 other exit lanes that were completely undefended. Haha. The map screenshot just makes it look small, probably because the map itself is pretty large.
The real benefit of the gold center expansion isn't the gold. It's the gas. I'd still rather expand to a safer blue for the long term minerals, especially considering that blue expansions all have 30% more overall minerals than standard golds, and this gold is efffectively a standard gold. Also, the standard blues are more defendable and linear. The gas, on the other hand, is godly. Four geysers is just so crazy! I suggest halving how much gas is in each of those geysers so it follows the same concept as the gold minerals. 10,000 gas at one expo is just silly, though. I would fight for that expo in every game I could to get that gas.
Just an FYI, the middle gold gives you an income tab rating of 1350 minerals with 2 workers on each gold patch and 475 gas rating with 3 workers in each gas. With 2 workers on each patch the gold dries up in approximately 8 in-game minutes of mining. The gas just wins. No MULE's were used, btw.
I think there may be too many minerals overall at the gold. Having such a high income, even for just five minutes is pretty beneficial for a timing push. Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see people who take the gold use it for setting up safer blue expansions rapidly once they learn that the gold dries up very fast. I would really like to see the total minerals in each patch go down to about 500. That means there's an overall mineral total of 6,000 there, compared to the regular 12,000 at a blue base.
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There are, of course, a few potential issues. Terran MULE's are still godly and can heavily take advantage of that middle expo. Saving up MULE's just for that expo makes so much sense that I'd probably smack a Terran that didn't. There was only one map issue I was able to find. The left bottom wall guarding the gold has a spot where you can siege a tank and it can shoot into the mineral line. Every other side only allows the tank to reach halfway into the actual mineral patch, which means it can't target SCV's properly. Except for on the bottom left. If I find anything else wrong with it or questionable I'll post about it.
Anyway, PF's don't have the range to fight any form of harassment play in the center, thankfully. The distance from the main/natural to the center is big enough that players can really maneuver around. Defending the middle on this map feels like it'll be significantly more difficult than usual. This is definitely one of the most open maps I've played on. Devotion is the only other one that really feels as open to me. That screenshot really doesn't do justice to the size of the map. I suggest everyone at least test it vs Very Easy AI to feel the map out.
It's very easy to simply expand around the edges and just push into their natural that way. Guarding all those side expansions isn't easy if you have to protect the center, too. There are too many attack paths into the center. A 200/200 army can't cover the natural expo's, the side expo's blocked by rocks, and the center at the same time efficiently. Even if you defend the ground paths effectively and super turtle, every single bases mineral line is easily harassable by air. With the upcoming siege tank damage nerf, it's going to be one hell of a crazy map.
This is easily the best map I've seen and my new favorite SC2 map of all time.
Great map prodiG!
EDIT: I also feel I should mention that I highly approve of the destructable rock placement on this map. The gold needs it. There's no question about that. That kind of income in early game would be ludicrous. The rocks blocking the ramp by the natural are also very good. They keep the natural safe early, but allow for the aggressor to open another attack path later in the game. The lack of rocks blocking any expansions other than the gold is wonderful.
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On September 11 2010 04:07 prodiG wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 03:44 WarChimp wrote:
By the way prodiG did Blizzard get back to you about your job as level designer or something? I think it was you, you posted in a blog about you becoming the lead map designer or something.
Did they get back to you? i got turned down for lead level designer and level designer (understandably, both are jobs you need degrees or something for) but i'm waiting on associate level designer
Wow, I wish you best of luck, I really hope they involve sm1 from the community into the map-making process!
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Middle expo is pretty ridiculous. Not only would a player with map control dominate the crap out of the game, but if two players with even map control were playing, it would be damn near impossible to defend it. (think tanks/stalkers) on those ridges. Other than that, looks stellar to me.
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Awesome map Mr. josh, I enjoyed smashing that kid I was playing on it while we were all OBSing it the other night lol built stargates around the middle and spammed carriers. Cracks me up everytime.
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Looks like one of the better maps out there. Well done. Good to see some macro oriented maps, those make for the best matches.
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Can s1 upload it on EU, or i am just too blind to find it there?
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Wow this map is so good... I like it better than lost temple... which is saying a lot! Good job! :D
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On September 11 2010 22:49 Darpa wrote:
Middle expo is pretty ridiculous. Not only would a player with map control dominate the crap out of the game, but if two players with even map control were playing, it would be damn near impossible to defend it. (think tanks/stalkers) on those ridges. Other than that, looks stellar to me.
It would be easy to defend vs. Zerg. Think about it. What would Zerg drop on those ledges that you would be afraid of?
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Tested it a bit more and it's possible to safely proxy Gateway behind the 3rd's minerals on the left and right sides of the map but not at the top and bottom sides.
What I mean by safely is that you can place the Pylon behind the center of the mineral line and then a Gateway at each end to seal it off. That's one of the few spots I could find where you could hide a Gateway and a scouting probe might miss it, most of the other spots that are closer are much easier to check. The Gateways are tucked far enough back from the scouting probes normal line of sight that it won't see them unless it purposefully checks.
Anyway, I suggest either shrinking the space behind the minerals on the left and right side to prevent hidden proxy gates/barracks (3x3 buildings) or increasing the space behind the minerals on the top and bottom so that it's even for all spawns.
It's your move Batman!
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+ Show Spoiler [Niji87's Post] +On September 11 2010 20:47 Niji87 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 17:46 danson wrote:A) the middle expo is ridiculous. It is pretty much an instant win to whoever can take it, and thus if a player gains any sort of map or positional control, they have almost no chance to lose, and the defending player has no chance for a comeback (in high level play). This applies to every map with double expos, especially double GOLD expos. Nah, it only has 750 per patch. This means it's the equivalent of a standard gold expo on regular Blizzard maps. You get the same overall income as you would from Lost Temple gold, in other words. The difference is that it takes more workers to set up quickly, 24 instead of 12, and you get a hightened income for a brief amount of time. The higher cost of setting it up, the Xel'Naga towers watching it, and the multiple attack angles on it make it just fine. The aggressor has the advantage at this expansion. One of the parts I really like about it is that the minerals aren't pushed up against the cliff edges, which means you can kill workers/gas without worrying about a PF shooting you. Especially with all those angles you can get on them. You don't always have to kill the PF, yah? Sidestepping is a great tactic. As for the doubters, the center is actually pretty open. I fit an entire 200/200 T army in a single exit lane inside and behind the line of sight blockers for that center gold pretty easy. There were still 3 other exit lanes that were completely undefended. Haha. The map screenshot just makes it look small, probably because the map itself is pretty large. The real benefit of the gold center expansion isn't the gold. It's the gas. I'd still rather expand to a safer blue for the long term minerals, especially considering that blue expansions all have 30% more overall minerals than standard golds, and this gold is efffectively a standard gold. Also, the standard blues are more defendable and linear. The gas, on the other hand, is godly. Four geysers is just so crazy! I suggest halving how much gas is in each of those geysers so it follows the same concept as the gold minerals. 10,000 gas at one expo is just silly, though. I would fight for that expo in every game I could to get that gas. Just an FYI, the middle gold gives you an income tab rating of 1350 minerals with 2 workers on each gold patch and 475 gas rating with 3 workers in each gas. With 2 workers on each patch the gold dries up in approximately 8 in-game minutes of mining. The gas just wins. No MULE's were used, btw. I think there may be too many minerals overall at the gold. Having such a high income, even for just five minutes is pretty beneficial for a timing push. Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see people who take the gold use it for setting up safer blue expansions rapidly once they learn that the gold dries up very fast. I would really like to see the total minerals in each patch go down to about 500. That means there's an overall mineral total of 6,000 there, compared to the regular 12,000 at a blue base. ------------------------- There are, of course, a few potential issues. Terran MULE's are still godly and can heavily take advantage of that middle expo. Saving up MULE's just for that expo makes so much sense that I'd probably smack a Terran that didn't. There was only one map issue I was able to find. The left bottom wall guarding the gold has a spot where you can siege a tank and it can shoot into the mineral line. Every other side only allows the tank to reach halfway into the actual mineral patch, which means it can't target SCV's properly. Except for on the bottom left. If I find anything else wrong with it or questionable I'll post about it. Anyway, PF's don't have the range to fight any form of harassment play in the center, thankfully. The distance from the main/natural to the center is big enough that players can really maneuver around. Defending the middle on this map feels like it'll be significantly more difficult than usual. This is definitely one of the most open maps I've played on. Devotion is the only other one that really feels as open to me. That screenshot really doesn't do justice to the size of the map. I suggest everyone at least test it vs Very Easy AI to feel the map out. It's very easy to simply expand around the edges and just push into their natural that way. Guarding all those side expansions isn't easy if you have to protect the center, too. There are too many attack paths into the center. A 200/200 army can't cover the natural expo's, the side expo's blocked by rocks, and the center at the same time efficiently. Even if you defend the ground paths effectively and super turtle, every single bases mineral line is easily harassable by air. With the upcoming siege tank damage nerf, it's going to be one hell of a crazy map. This is easily the best map I've seen and my new favorite SC2 map of all time. Great map prodiG!EDIT: I also feel I should mention that I highly approve of the destructable rock placement on this map. The gold needs it. There's no question about that. That kind of income in early game would be ludicrous. The rocks blocking the ramp by the natural are also very good. They keep the natural safe early, but allow for the aggressor to open another attack path later in the game. The lack of rocks blocking any expansions other than the gold is wonderful.
Finally someone who understands the center 8)
I have been considering dropping it to 500 minerals/patch and 1250 gas/geyser but I'm waiting for some more feedback and testing to make a concrete decision as opposed to a purely theoretical one.
On September 11 2010 07:57 Antares777 wrote:@prodiG If Blizzard hired you, do you think the map pool would be better (sorry that u didn't get the job )?
If I was hired I would be pushing very hard to have the mapmaking team work closely with the Blizzard eSports team to try and create the best and most interesting map pool possible.
+ Show Spoiler [Niji87's awesome progamer testin…] +On September 12 2010 07:18 Niji87 wrote:
Tested it a bit more and it's possible to safely proxy Gateway behind the 3rd's minerals on the left and right sides of the map but not at the top and bottom sides.
What I mean by safely is that you can place the Pylon behind the center of the mineral line and then a Gateway at each end to seal it off. That's one of the few spots I could find where you could hide a Gateway and a scouting probe might miss it, most of the other spots that are closer are much easier to check. The Gateways are tucked far enough back from the scouting probes normal line of sight that it won't see them unless it purposefully checks.
Anyway, I suggest either shrinking the space behind the minerals on the left and right side to prevent hidden proxy gates/barracks (3x3 buildings) or increasing the space behind the minerals on the top and bottom so that it's even for all spawns.
It's your move Batman!
This is an interesting imbalance... I think I'll open it up on both sides
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Haha, yah. I haven't had a chance to get my friends to test it out yet. I definitely agree with waiting on changing the gas/gold mineral totals in the middle. Mostly it was just theorycrafting right after playing the map vs AI. I've had more time to think it over and it's harassabilty, especially the ease of harassing gas, makes it manageable. Hopefully real world results are in line with that expectation!
It's definitely nice to see you willing to allow aggressive strategies to prosper! I was worried that you wouldn't like people being able to proxy rush, so I didn't say anything about which way I believed it should work.
This is such a great map, yo.
=3
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I really like this map, the addition of the super-gold expo is a great touch. I agree with the comment that it might make planetary fortresses a bit too awesome though.
Is there a way to give the rocks at that location more HP as well, or have multiple sets of rocks there to really deter taking it earlier on? Should be bigger effort to clear the rocks if it's bigger reward.
I was thinking about your guys map threads today, you and Konicki and isn't there a third guy? His name is hard to remember! Anyway, I was thinking that you guys are making wonderful map after wonderful map, but I never see any games played on them, and if I do a search for melee maps on Bnet and don't specifically search for iccup, even the most popular one is way way way down on the list, and is Fighting Spirit anyway which has a reputation.
I wish you guys would spend a little bit more time working on getting the completed maps circulated through the community, and a little bit less time making dozens of maps. Like, one of the most popular user-made melee maps is Infernal Arena, which is a gimmicky yet fun 3v3, and the reason why it's so popular is probably purely because Husky did a video on it. Something like that could really get a lot of people behind these quality maps you guys have been working so hard on.
Just my two cents. Hope it doesn't sound too mean!
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I'll put my replies in bold again here:
On September 12 2010 09:50 Ketara wrote:I really like this map, the addition of the super-gold expo is a great touch. I agree with the comment that it might make planetary fortresses a bit too awesome though. Is there a way to give the rocks at that location more HP as well, or have multiple sets of rocks there to really deter taking it earlier on? Should be bigger effort to clear the rocks if it's bigger reward. I have also considered putting stacked rocks but decided against it because Terran is the only race with access to cost-effective splash. (Archons don't quite make the cut here, and Zerg is completely screwed in this regard. Adding a second rock was also a consideration but I need more testing before that change might happen.I was thinking about your guys map threads today, you and Konicki and isn't there a third guy? His name is hard to remember! Anyway, I was thinking that you guys are making wonderful map after wonderful map, but I never see any games played on them, and if I do a search for melee maps on Bnet and don't specifically search for iccup, even the most popular one is way way way down on the list, and is Fighting Spirit anyway which has a reputation. The popularity system isn't very good. Even if I create the best Melee map in all of SC2 forever and ever, if only TL knows about it then it won't see more than a dozen games an hour and stay on the very bottom of the list. (Think: 4800 people active on TL atm, 750,000 people active on bnet atm)
And the final member of the iCCup Mapmaking Team is SUPEROUMAN. He lives in France, so his maps are uploaded on US via proxy accounts so you won't see him as the author in bnet.I wish you guys would spend a little bit more time working on getting the completed maps circulated through the community, and a little bit less time making dozens of maps. Like, one of the most popular user-made melee maps is Infernal Arena, which is a gimmicky yet fun 3v3, and the reason why it's so popular is probably purely because Husky did a video on it. Something like that could really get a lot of people behind these quality maps you guys have been working so hard on. iCCup and some of it's affiliates have something in the works for this. I don't think I'm in the position to disclose anything but stay tuned In the meantime, (almost) every tuesday we run the iCCup Map Series, where we get High-Level players to compete in a series of showmatches on all of our latest works. You can help us out as well! Spread the word, If you know anyone organizing an event (whether it be a King of the Hill, Tournament or just a few showmatches) kindly suggest that they introduce a few iCCup maps into their map pool! The more word gets spread the quicker everything will grow Just my two cents. Hope it doesn't sound too mean! <3
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I totally 100% agree that the popularity system is dumb, or at the very least should be more options-friendly. It's a bit difficult to find maps even if you know specifically what you're looking for.
But it is the system in place, and I think it'd be worth it to try to get even just one map pushed up in popularity by whatever means possible. If you guys could get HD & Husky to agree to cast one of the iccup showmatches and put the games on their youtube channel, I bet it'd help out a lot. They do have 200,000 subscribers each, which is a ton of people, even if the vast majority are probably not high level players and just watch for funsies.
Personally, it is not that I think the Blizzard maps are bad (not perfect, but not bad), but that I really want there to be just more maps in general in the ladder pool, and a larger variance between different types of map. I love seeing things like the super-gold-expo on this map, because just having that one feature makes it totally different from any other map in any given pool, and creates different dynamics that are map specific.
I really do think (possibly naively) that if a custom melee map got really popular, that Blizzard may add it to the ladder pool. But I doubt that can happen if people aren't actively playing it on Bnet, regardless of how good the TL experts think it is.
I will stay tuned for your something in the works though, for I am interested and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. If I had people to play I'd post replays on these threads too, but my circle of friends is like, me (crappy diamond) and a dozen people who are scared to ladder and just play Nexus Wars.
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Hyrule18993 Posts
On September 12 2010 11:02 Lunit wrote:
The middle is to cramped, the best solution would be to remove the walls and have the high grass curl around half of the tower so you could not see middle. Also widen out the gold mineral patches and remove gas. There so close together that if a battle develops in the middle for the gold you would have to fight around the outside.
Go play the map before you make dumb suggestions.
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Since konicki added Sungsu Crossing (Sick map, check it out) I went ahead and added Enigma to the iCCup map pool as well!
Search "iCCup" to find Enigma now!
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Im having a really hard time playing on this map, and no it has nothing to do with its layout. There is a reddish glow that really irritates my eyes. I dont know if this is just me but i honestly have to look away every so often.
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On September 15 2010 09:10 Of The Room wrote:
Im having a really hard time playing on this map, and no it has nothing to do with its layout. There is a reddish glow that really irritates my eyes. I dont know if this is just me but i honestly have to look away every so often.
I have never seen any red on this map, but what I think is happening is that some of the textures are getting mixed up - it's an SC2 bug. I have the same issue from time to time on metalopolis, the cement texture will turn a bright yellow :/
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Pretty easy enigma, this one
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the mid is way too imba for T... get a tankcontain or sth in front of the opponents base, take mid andbuild a PF - pretty much unbeatable.
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On September 15 2010 10:32 kickinhead wrote:
the mid is way too imba for T... get a tankcontain or sth in front of the opponents base, take mid andbuild a PF - pretty much unbeatable.
Version 1.1 is up!
Changes:
-Moved the Xel'Naga towers so they don't watch the exit from the third, but rather the lane units walk down around the center.
-Made the center unbuildable except for the area where you place the town hall, and four 2x2 spaces around the town hall for defensive buildings
-Dropped the Gold mineral fields down to 500 per patch from the original 750
-Dropped the center geysers down to 1500 per geyser from the original 2500
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
This change to the mid favors terran. PF + Rockettowers. Zerg can make Spine/Spore but Toss can only plac Pylons. I still would prefer a version with a clean mid. Would be nice to know how that one would be played.
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On September 15 2010 17:12 dezi wrote:
This change to the mid favors terran. PF + Rockettowers. Zerg can make Spine/Spore but Toss can only plac Pylons. I still would prefer a version with a clean mid. Would be nice to know how that one would be played.
Any area that can be held with static defense will favor terran, defense is one of the things that Terran excels at. This version favors it much less than the previous as T could blanket the area in as many turrets as he needed.
To be fair, any change I make will have something that favors Terran about it
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
That's true, but as i said before, i still would like to see a version where you completly scrapped this expansion and at least one version at EU :p
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Still not getting the groove of having a middle super-base. Maybe if it only had 2 geysers? The gas income from 4x geyser lasts longer (even at 1/2 or 1/3 normal amount of gas) than the minerals, and means you get to build a crapton of very high tech units, if you get the chance. Also the 2x2 spaces... so terran can build extra defense but protoss can't?
I would have liked to see high yield geysers in action too...
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On September 15 2010 17:36 dezi wrote:
That's true, but as i said before, i still would like to see a version where you completly scrapped this expansion and at least one version at EU :p
Map is up on EU now thanks to Myrathi :D
On September 24 2010 00:34 sylverfyre wrote:
Still not getting the groove of having a middle super-base. Maybe if it only had 2 geysers? The gas income from 4x geyser lasts longer (even at 1/2 or 1/3 normal amount of gas) than the minerals, and means you get to build a crapton of very high tech units, if you get the chance. Also the 2x2 spaces... so terran can build extra defense but protoss can't?
I would have liked to see high yield geysers in action too...
All of the races can use the middle, Protoss just needs to place a pylon. If Protoss is Really keen on turtling it up he can power the cannons with Warp Prisms
If the middle proves to be such a powerful thing then players will learn to not get stuck in their corner of the map because of it. If at that point the middle still proves to be a bad thing then I'll change it
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Hyrule18993 Posts
IMO 2x3 not 2x2 spots, which allows for Bunkers as well as Creep Tumors. Or maybe just add a few 1x1 patches for Creep Tumors?
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On September 24 2010 06:53 tofucake wrote:
IMO 2x3 not 2x2 spots, which allows for Bunkers as well as Creep Tumors. Or maybe just add a few 1x1 patches for Creep Tumors?
The whole middle area is checkerboarded for creep tumors, I checkerboard everything I make unbuildable
You should see God's Garden, the minimap in the editor has this big black hole in the middle because I've covered it in 1x1 pathing blocker doodads (something I've only just started doing because clicking out 1x1 holes to make a checkerboard by hand on something like 1000 squares can go straight to hell, I'll take my copypaste any day)
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I dislike map cause expos are just way too easy to take a lot.
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On September 24 2010 07:19 CagedMind wrote:
I dislike map cause expos are just way too easy to take a lot.
^disagree.
They are far apart, the natural has somewhat of a backdoor, etc.
They are only a lot of bases (18, the one in the center is a double base) imho.
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On September 24 2010 07:08 Superouman wrote:
where is god's garden?
MY site/TL thread going up in a sec~
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I'm looking to play some practice games on this map hit me up in game Carefoot//310//Random~Diamond
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On September 25 2010 02:06 Carefoot wrote:
I'm looking to play some practice games on this map hit me up in game Carefoot//310//Random~Diamond
I notice you're in Korea. What server?
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This map is sweet . Blizzard should use some macro-oriented maps like these in their map pool.
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Still haven't fixed those proxy gate/rax imbalance positions! Figured I'd bring it up again since the montly map pool thing is probably gonna be popular and you probably forgot about this little bit.
Right and left middle expos are both fine, but top and bottom middle expos won't let you place two rax/gates behind the mineral line, nor even one. I can screenshot them if you're confused about where I mean. I would also suggest a bit of care on the right middle expo as you can place a rax with techlab behind the top gas on it.
I checked a lot of the Collosi/Tank/Brood Lord ranges around the cliff edges and stuff and it all seems fine. That proxy rush thing is really all I can find about the map that is imbalanced. Actually, I forgot to check that bottom left side wall for the gold to see if you could still shell the minerals from there to see if that was fixed. I'll do it another time, tho.
I plan on going through a lot of maps and checking for small things, haha.
NITPICKING YO!
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To add some fixes
-the backdoor 3rd's mid left/mid right have no room to build turrets/static defense behind the mineral line. This makes harass too powerful.
-the center expo combined with Xel'Naga's makes expanding there and containing far to easy, especially with 9 HY minerals and 4 gas (change Xel'Naga's or HY expo)
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Fixing the static defense and proxy issues now, but I'm leaving the middle the way it is.
Pretty sure I know where you're talking about Niji87, but send me a screen just to be sure 8)
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Yah, the middle is fine now. Especially with that checkerboard on it.
Anyway, I will PM you the images tonight then!
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Really rocks!
imo, it needs destructable rocks for the last 4 blue expansions, to make it more interesting in late game.
i can't wait to try it out. When will it be available to play and is there any chance BLizz approves these maps for ladder play?
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Hyrule18993 Posts
Enigma has been out for a long time...
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I swear the distance on this map is LONG AS HELL, not to mention that reapers only have one entrance like Steppes of War, it should be all entrances due to long distance. Favors Z too much. Not to mention putting brood lords behind my third, if i didnt open stargates early on, id be screwed
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Hyrule18993 Posts
If you have to OPEN Phoenixes to counter Hive tech you're doing something horribly wrong.
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hey guys, i've been really hoping to try out this (and all iccup maps actually) map when i have free time to do so, unfortunately i've been busy practising ladder maps for upcoming tournaments.
today i made a christmass exception and with my lovely friend and TL streamer decemvre we decided to play some games. here is a little reppack of our 3 games on Enigma and i added one game on Match point as well.
http://www.mediafire.com/?9h3rksr5wd15ylk
The map is really good, what i'd suggest tho is to put 4th base a bit further away so it's harder to take OR put 1 gayser on each 3rd and 4th base. Otherwise great work with this map and keep it up, i hope to see some tournaments or ladders using iccup maps. enjoy
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I'm not trying to be negative on TL or anything, but I honestly despise this map. The rush distance is INCREDIBLY long. All the bases are reachable by Brood Lords, including my Natural and third. This makes late game as annoying as hell for PvZ.
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On December 24 2010 13:46 TheUberMango wrote:
I'm not trying to be negative on TL or anything, but I honestly despise this map. The rush distance is INCREDIBLY long. All the bases are reachable by Brood Lords, including my Natural and third. This makes late game as annoying as hell for PvZ.
...aren't ALL bases reachable by Brood Lords? On every map?
Unless there was a no-fly-zone wall...
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On December 24 2010 13:46 TheUberMango wrote:
I'm not trying to be negative on TL or anything, but I honestly despise this map. The rush distance is INCREDIBLY long. All the bases are reachable by Brood Lords, including my Natural and third. This makes late game as annoying as hell for PvZ.
Like ill seriously take the temp ban to just call this one of the most retarded things Ive ever read in the map forums, really broodlords, why not carriers or something. Longer rush distances are a great way to start games to be more macro style.
Im pokerfacing this
![[image loading]](http://theonceandfuturecoffeeaddict.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/pokerface.jpg)
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mod edit: illicit material
User was banned for this post.
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Really -_- What the fuck? Worst derail ever.
I have to agree with tofu. If you don't want to counter broodlords then you'll lose no matter the map.
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+ Show Spoiler +On December 24 2010 07:39 PredY wrote:hey guys, i've been really hoping to try out this (and all iccup maps actually) map when i have free time to do so, unfortunately i've been busy practising ladder maps for upcoming tournaments. today i made a christmass exception and with my lovely friend and TL streamer decemvre we decided to play some games. here is a little reppack of our 3 games on Enigma and i added one game on Match point as well. http://www.mediafire.com/?9h3rksr5wd15ylkThe map is really good, what i'd suggest tho is to put 4th base a bit further away so it's harder to take OR put 1 gayser on each 3rd and 4th base. Otherwise great work with this map and keep it up, i hope to see some tournaments or ladders using iccup maps. enjoy
Thanks for the replays I enjoyed them
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On December 25 2010 23:40 Ragoo wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 24 2010 07:39 PredY wrote:hey guys, i've been really hoping to try out this (and all iccup maps actually) map when i have free time to do so, unfortunately i've been busy practising ladder maps for upcoming tournaments. today i made a christmass exception and with my lovely friend and TL streamer decemvre we decided to play some games. here is a little reppack of our 3 games on Enigma and i added one game on Match point as well. http://www.mediafire.com/?9h3rksr5wd15ylkThe map is really good, what i'd suggest tho is to put 4th base a bit further away so it's harder to take OR put 1 gayser on each 3rd and 4th base. Otherwise great work with this map and keep it up, i hope to see some tournaments or ladders using iccup maps. enjoy Thanks for the replays I enjoyed them
no problem i enjoyed the games as well, even though they were our first games on these maps they still were some good macro games. i'll release more replays in the future im sure
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On December 24 2010 07:39 PredY wrote:hey guys, i've been really hoping to try out this (and all iccup maps actually) map when i have free time to do so, unfortunately i've been busy practising ladder maps for upcoming tournaments. today i made a christmass exception and with my lovely friend and TL streamer decemvre we decided to play some games. here is a little reppack of our 3 games on Enigma and i added one game on Match point as well. http://www.mediafire.com/?9h3rksr5wd15ylkThe map is really good, what i'd suggest tho is to put 4th base a bit further away so it's harder to take OR put 1 gayser on each 3rd and 4th base. Otherwise great work with this map and keep it up, i hope to see some tournaments or ladders using iccup maps. enjoy
Nice Games (watched all games of the pack except one on Enigma). I like your style and love you for your drone split advice.^^ But, is it only me or are the colors or the darkness of the map (enigma) exhausting for the eyes while watching?
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On September 10 2010 19:11 tofucake wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 06:04 Acritter wrote:
I love the windmill pattern. It allows a player to expand away from the opponent no matter the positions, unlike Metalopolis. Yeah, it's totally not a swastika.
Eh, you're expanding towards your opponent in a horizontal spawn. Unless there's some exception to the spawns like on shakuras. That's basically the only thing I dislike about this map; the rotational symmetry, makes for some unnecessary imbalance, I might be biased towards it though as I dislike it anyways :S. Also I know that the symmetry of maps is a very hot topic and I'm no expert on this, just my personal opinion.
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On December 26 2010 05:41 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 07:39 PredY wrote:hey guys, i've been really hoping to try out this (and all iccup maps actually) map when i have free time to do so, unfortunately i've been busy practising ladder maps for upcoming tournaments. today i made a christmass exception and with my lovely friend and TL streamer decemvre we decided to play some games. here is a little reppack of our 3 games on Enigma and i added one game on Match point as well. http://www.mediafire.com/?9h3rksr5wd15ylkThe map is really good, what i'd suggest tho is to put 4th base a bit further away so it's harder to take OR put 1 gayser on each 3rd and 4th base. Otherwise great work with this map and keep it up, i hope to see some tournaments or ladders using iccup maps. enjoy Nice Games (watched all games of the pack except one on Enigma). I like your style and love you for your drone split advice.^^ But, is it only me or are the colors or the darkness of the map (enigma) exhausting for the eyes while watching?
i didn't have any problems while playing, tho i'm already very well trained anyway :D
the workers split advice i obviously got from TL (♥) so im sure you can search for the thread.
glad you liked the games i always aim for macro games because there i feel the skill level of players is displayed the most and it's entertaining to watch (broodwar born and bred^^)
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On December 24 2010 14:03 R4ptur3d wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2010 13:46 TheUberMango wrote:
I'm not trying to be negative on TL or anything, but I honestly despise this map. The rush distance is INCREDIBLY long. All the bases are reachable by Brood Lords, including my Natural and third. This makes late game as annoying as hell for PvZ. Like ill seriously take the temp ban to just call this one of the most retarded things Ive ever read in the map forums, really broodlords, why not carriers or something. Longer rush distances are a great way to start games to be more macro style. Im pokerfacing this
Im on my ipad so my typing sucks, forgive me...Sorry for not being specific, but I meant you can barely hit the brood lords. you can somewhat delay carriers by killing their interceptors, but if you spawn in positions like 11 vs 6, the Zerg can just move his BLs up from his natural and behind your high yield, somewhat risk free isn't it?Stalkers can't get in a good position or sometimes even in range to shoot them. From my exp, most people just get blink stalkers against brood lords. only the high yield in metalopolis is reachable by brood lords, as your third and fourth isn't exposed like that. Not to mention, it's still possible to kill brood lords behind the high yield, if you go to the corresponding high yield. Difficult yes, but still possible. Also, does everyone go void rays against brood lords? Yeah, they work, but this map forces you to do it. Not to mention, if Zerg just mixes in 4 corruptors and puts 3 brood
lords before the expansion, it's technically going to shutdown phoenixes, and void rays to an extent. In BW, the distances were mostly moderate, you could choose to be aggressive or passive, but in
this map if you spawn cross positions, all early game mechanics are shut down. It's more risky for
Protoss to move out JUST to apply pressure, and if you're not careful and 12 mutalisks fly in, it
would take forever to retreat from the middle of the map. Honest you're a great mapmaker, I'm not trying to rant you, as all your other maps are well made. Corruptors would stop your void rays as there is no stalker support, but stalkers can't shoot. Before a battle after you moved away from the expo, just morph them into brood lords...
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People should try to go something that (as Day[9] puts it) COUNTERS Brood Lords. Mutalisks COUNTER Zerglings. Photon Cannons COUNTER Corrupters.
Air-to-air units COUNTER Broodlords. This is why you were laughed at.
Could a Zerg assemble a force of BL/Corrupters that you couldn't fight off with a ground army? Not really... if hes 200/200 into that and you're 200/200 into VRs or Viks, you win, unless he has only a handful of BLs and in that case, just go kill his whole fuckin base.
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My absolute favorite map. Valhalla and Match Point would be up there too if it wern't for mineral only expos but Enigma is Boss. GJ on it.
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On December 27 2010 09:36 iGrok wrote:
People should try to go something that (as Day[9] puts it) COUNTERS Brood Lords. Mutalisks COUNTER Zerglings. Photon Cannons COUNTER Corrupters.
Air-to-air units COUNTER Broodlords. This is why you were laughed at.
Could a Zerg assemble a force of BL/Corrupters that you couldn't fight off with a ground army? Not really... if hes 200/200 into that and you're 200/200 into VRs or Viks, you win, unless he has only a handful of BLs and in that case, just go kill his whole fuckin base.
My point being, not even half the pro toss gets void rays or Phoenix against brood lords
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I am sad that Blizzard is staffed by wankers that wouldn't put this in the map pool. It looks amazing.
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EPT
