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I made 2 maps, the first one is kind of small and the other one is the biggest available. I'd like to hear what you think needs to be corrected. They're both uploaded to the European server if you want to test them. Back to Back is on the American server too.
I've read on teamliquid that new mappers often make gimmicky maps so I have a few questions. Do I need to remove some features ? Do you think some races are unfavored ?
Back to Back
1vs1 map
small 168x184
Download (click Télécharger ce fichier)
![[image loading]](http://capitainelechimp.free.fr/scmap1-2.jpg)
Update : + Show Spoiler +- I fixed the gas in the golden expansion
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- I removed several cliffs or made them unpathable.
- I moved the main ramp a bit closer to the natural.
- The choke is narrower.
- The main has a bit more space but not too much.
- The 3rd expansion's entrance is wider.
- The gold expansions ramps are narrower.
- I removed the 2 useless towers.
The main is small so when you expand your natural kind of becomes your main. You can make a wall down your ramp so it either covers both bases or closes the corridor on the side of the main. It's easier to defend 2 bases if they're close to each other but you can also have more casualties if you don't defend well.
Down the gold expansion there are high grasses so it's easier to attack than defend it. Instead of a line of grass it's made of several grass patches. You can place your army in the grasses and have an air unit for vision.
One other thing I'm worried about is more a game imbalance but if a Terran spawns in the bottom spot he can wall-in quickly with just a supply depot, a barracks and a reactor/tech lab wereas on the top spot you have to build one more supply depot. Do you think I have to change the layout to fix this ?
Previous version + Show Spoiler +
Congo
1vs1 map
huge 256x256
Download (click Télécharger ce fichier)
Update : + Show Spoiler +- Removed the cliffs in the middle.
- Made the middle larger.
- There are 2 new paths to the enemy.
- The choke is wider.
- The 2 towers now don't fully cover the middle.
Several people on teamliquid were complaining maps weren't as big as Starcraft 1 maps so I made this map the biggest size available. I wrote huge but the size name in the editor is "epic". All bases can be accessed through ground.
Behind the choke I had to put destuctible rocks that open the 3rd expansion. Without them it would be too easy to proxy something there. I also tried high grass patches after the choke to make retreating easier if the attack fails.
Previous version + Show Spoiler +
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Congo seems way to big, maybe you can shrink it a little by having less of the water terrain or add more expo's to the map.
Then again, Congo won't be viable in anyway for a 1v1 matchup, the rush distance is too far for one player to scout the opponent's tech in time. It also has a lot of places where Terran/Protoss can cheese as well.
Tip: Try to keep the rush distance between both main's about ~35seconds (should be somewhere there for the current map pool basing it off worker movement speed)
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Both maps look pretty interesting.
On the 2nd map: As a zerg player that long choke with cliffs is pretty worrisome, but there's a ton of space to bypass it with a nydus worm. Also the map size is large, but so little of the space is usable that it's probably going to function like a much smaller map, but with loooooong rush distances. Still seems cool though.
I love the short path in the first map. It's really short to get from your main to mid map, but a lot further to get to the enemy's main. Seems like an interesting dynamic.
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I like how Congo looks, seems rather barren, and doesn't look like there is any point of leaving the area around your main for a while (you have 3 expos guarded by one ramp. I think that you gotta do something to make map control more valuable there, like maybe a tower that gives even more sight (think that that can be changed) but otherwise very nice map.
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you should make a big 4 player map instead of a large 2 player map, just personal request 
(I only say this cuz it seems you have a LOT of extra room on the 2nd map)
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not bad, i like the idea of a necessary second especially for toss
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hah congo is sick!!! It realistically prob wont be chosen in any serious play because of its size, but damn that would be fun to play.
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the 2nd one is a bit TOO big mate, but they actually look really nice
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I feel like on Congo there should be land between the gold and that expansion spot across the water, having only one Large thin choke just seems like bad news =/.
I feel like the bigger maps people are talking about are things like wide open fighting areas and big 4 player maps like andromeda, and less maps that are just full of choke points like incineration zone
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I really think the second map is way to big for two players. At least make it a four player map or something.
However, I do like the first map. There are still a few things I would change:
- The rush distance seems to be too short. Move the ramps to the mains a little closer to the natural.
- It seems pretty easy to bunker up at 3 bases as Terran. I would make at least one of the entrances (to the main from the middle, or to the 3rd from the middle) a little bit wider.
- I would move the entrance to the 3rd closer to the middle to make it easier to flank on an attack and to make counter attacks more viable.
- The main bases are a little too small. I prefer a bigger base and a smaller natural. But that's just my opinion.
I'm not a pro so maybe I'm talking shit.
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Are the gold minerals on Back to Back located on higher ground than the gas?
looks weird
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on Congo i'd be worried about a toss pushing with forcefield vs z in the long narrow middle. I suppose one could drop/nydus the sides and kind of just defend where the path is not quite so narrow.
Back to back i like. lots of wide spaces where a z can spread out the units and 2 paths to the enemy.
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On May 26 2010 06:16 uNiGNoRe wrote:
- The rush distance seems to be too short. Move the ramps to the mains a little closer to the natural.
- It seems pretty easy to bunker up at 3 bases as Terran. I would make at least one of the entrances (to the main from the middle, or to the 3rd from the middle) a little bit wider.
- I would move the entrance to the 3rd closer to the middle to make it easier to flank on an attack and to make counter attacks more viable.
I'm not a pro so maybe I'm talking shit.
I agree with these points and would add that some of the distances might be a little to close which could give terran an imbalance for dropping tanks and just spotting the cliff; specifically I see that possibly being an issue with the expansion by the main (not the natural obviously).
They both look super pretty though.
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CONGO IS SOO SICK AND INSANE ME AND MY FRIENDS LOVE YOU ;D
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First one has P imbalance. You made it so that you have to fast expand to the nat to build a bunch of buildings, but it's such a wide choke to guard both the main and the nat that you cannot FE too well. PvZ would be tough I think. Make that smaller and I think you have a great map.
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On May 26 2010 06:21 dogmeatstew wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2010 06:16 uNiGNoRe wrote:
- The rush distance seems to be too short. Move the ramps to the mains a little closer to the natural.
- It seems pretty easy to bunker up at 3 bases as Terran. I would make at least one of the entrances (to the main from the middle, or to the 3rd from the middle) a little bit wider.
- I would move the entrance to the 3rd closer to the middle to make it easier to flank on an attack and to make counter attacks more viable.
I'm not a pro so maybe I'm talking shit. I agree with these points and would add that some of the distances might be a little to close which could give terran an imbalance for dropping tanks and just spotting the cliff; specifically I see that possibly being an issue with the expansion by the main (not the natural obviously). They both look super pretty though.
I actually like back to back, but could use some touching up. This basically sums it up for me ^
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ya second one is huge. lol kinda looks like it belongs in elder scrolls 3 =p.
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That Back to Back map looks cool, despite it being with a small size the rush distance is quite far.
It would be even more interesting if for instance when you are at the bottom right position and you wanna go through the middle, the open area at the left is on lower ground and there is a ramp which many units are hard to get through.
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You can also try making the gold a little bit easier to defend, yeah it is 'gold' but still this would be way to hard to take.
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is there a way to download these for the US server? or can u upload them? all out player made maps are custom crap. no good melee ones and these look great!
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I like the first one, the second one worries me a bit with many chokes and the 256x256 size (thats epic size, not large if i recall correctly)
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On the map Back to Back, maybe you should switch the natural and the main to make it like some BW maps with the natural behind the main or whatever. If you were to do this, I would make the main choke smaller and the natural choke bigger.
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these are really cool. can't wait to double expo before making any units on congo LOL
it looks really hard to attack in congo because there's a single area of the map that defends 4 bases by ground, including the gold... not to mention, it's so huge.
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It's hard to compare tell exactly how much area the tower covers from the natural, but could that tower be potentially devastating with a siege tank set-up, making it more difficult than normal to assault the location?
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I uploaded the maps there http://dl.free.fr/iX73vTfps Click on "Télécharger ce fichier"
They're the files from the editor though. You'll have to publish them to be able to play from the US server.
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I personally think that Congo should be like.....a four player map, or bigger then a four player map.
Hahaha. Sounds EPIC.
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Some of the towers seem like they is in a bad place on the first one. What is the point of the ones tucked in your natural?
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On May 26 2010 09:44 Two_DoWn wrote:
Some of the towers seem like they is in a bad place on the first one. What is the point of the ones tucked in your natural?
This is my only real complaint. I think 4 towers is a little superfluous for the size of the map, and it'd probably be fine to just leave it at the 2 in mid. I dunno if I agree with the people saying the rush distance is too short. I thought so at first, but the path you have to take is winding enough that I don't think it's any shorter than Steppes of War. Maybe it's even a bit longer? Anyway, overall it looks great. I can't wait to try it out.
The second one seems way too big for 1v1, but then I've never been too fond of giant 1v1 maps in the first place
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I like Back to back. The way the main and natural are arranged should make for interesting play. The small chokes by the main and natural could promote early expand play but the part I really like is the back to back mineral patches. There is such a short fly distance for any harassment(thor drop, banshees, muta) but such a long walk distance for any ground based defense. It's like the nat/gold on blistering sands/steppes but taken to the extreme. We don't see enough econ harass in SC2 so this map should make for some interesting games.
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I published Back to Back on the US server because no one else had yet and I wanted to try it with a friend. Unfortunately the name "Back to Back" wasn't available for some reason, so it's published under "Back to Back (TL)".
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Umm back to back is a pretty large map. Desert oasis is 140x140
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Those look nice. With Back to Back, I kind of feel like the ramp to the main should be adjusted. It seems like it'd be difficult to defend the main and the natural with a zerg force. Just as a hypothetical example (which might not be a good idea, just an example of what I'm thinking), if you were to move the natural mineral lines a few clicks towards the center of the map and then move the main ramps closer to the edges of the map, it would simultaneously increase the rush distance (except for cliff hoppers!) and allow the natural expo to serve as a defensive barrier for the main.
With Congo, it seems like there's a lot of unplayable space and a lot of narrow choking paths. It's almost like an island map. Maybe that's what you're going for, but if you want to see much ground army play, I'd think you should widen some of those paths. An alternate route might be interesting, too. What I like about Congo is that, although there's a gigantic rush distance, the naturals are also kind of far from the main. It changes things up. It's a little more difficult to get forces to your natural for defense, but it's also a long walk for your enemy to get any troops to your base.
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Haven't played either yet. B2B looks awesome! can't wait to play it! With Congo, like everyone else, the middle choke looks insanely thin for such a large map, dropping a few siege tanks just feels like hurt in my brain (colossi with range too). especially with the watch towers, no ground army is going to make it through that. I think it will either be almost all air, or fighting for control of that one choke.
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256x256 is wayyy to big for 1v1 shrink it down to like half that and it looks like it could be a fun map although very imba because of the one walking path with a cliff will make it terran favored. Just check the rush distance time I bet it is double what it is on any of the 1v1 currently save DO
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I like giant maps. Looks like fun.
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On May 26 2010 11:55 ttlranger wrote:
Those look nice. With Back to Back, I kind of feel like the ramp to the main should be adjusted. It seems like it'd be difficult to defend the main and the natural with a zerg force. Just as a hypothetical example (which might not be a good idea, just an example of what I'm thinking), if you were to move the natural mineral lines a few clicks towards the center of the map and then move the main ramps closer to the edges of the map, it would simultaneously increase the rush distance (except for cliff hoppers!) and allow the natural expo to serve as a defensive barrier for the main.
After doing a few games, I like this idea. The mains also feel a bit cramped, but that's probably just because I play Terran so I have fucking supply depots and tech labs strewn all over the place. Minor stuff, though. I really like the map, and I'll play it just as much as any other Blizzard map.
Let me know if you update it or get an account on the US server so I can pull your current version that I have published there
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Gotta say that I actually hate the idea of large maps in Starcraft 2 right now. The game just doesn't seem to fit to it.
This is my opinion since I had a 1on1 on shakuras plateau, this 2on2 map, on cross positions. It totally demolished the tactics that were available back then and it was absolutely boring. Ok, now the game might be a bit more macro orientated but however, it just takes yeeeeeaaaaarrrrrs for a Thor to get from one base to the oponents.
About back to back: Although I always keep an eye on the size of the main base, it's an interesting feature that players are practically forced to build at their naturals very early and are encouraged to get a fast expansion. It surely looks like it could be place of many cool macro games. But (only from the overview so far) it looks like there wasn't much efforts in optical design. The main thing I noticed was that there are many very straight and long cliffs what looks kinda bad especially for "natural" cliff type.
Edit: Ok, rechecked, actually it's only at a very few spots.
I'ld love to see a second more "standard" version with a normal sized main of it because I also like the rest of that map.
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I have only played back to back so far, and I was very interested in the LoS blocker "forest" you created. I think that it's an ingenious idea, it really puts a lot of stress on controlling the watchtower, while in the early game you could have two forces passing right by each other and never knowing! I think it would make for very interesting play as well as a point of interest for spectators, while not really shifting favor to one race or another because of flying units late game. All in all its a fantastic mechanic!
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I've updated the map Back to Back. It's in the EU and US server. Here's the link (click Télécharger ce fichier).
changelog :
- I removed several cliffs or made them unpathable.
- I moved the main ramp a bit closer to the natural.
- The choke is narrower.
- The main has a bit more space but not too much.
- The 3rd expansion's entrance is wider.
- The gold expansions ramps are narrower.
- I removed the 2 useless towers.
Picture : + Show Spoiler +
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It's kind of funny that these ridiculously large maps should favor zerg ground which turns a highly mobile army into a ridiculously mobile army.
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Now Congo is updated too. Here's the link. I'll upload it to the EU server when it's up again.
- I Removed the cliffs in the middle.
- Made the middle larger.
- There are 2 new paths to the enemy.
- The choke is wider.
- The 2 towers now don't fully cover the middle.
Picture : + Show Spoiler +
PS : I'd still like to hear what you think of the new version of Back to Back.
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Wow good job on back to back, going to use this for my interschool tournament!
Congo looks too confusing O.O
ANyways great job, you're an excellent map maker!
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I fixed the gold exapansion's gas on Back to Back. Here's the new file http://dl.free.fr/gOP4Ue51O
I was unable to update my maps since patch 14, so I had to install Starcraft 2 from another computer and publish from there. So now the new version of Congo is uploaded too.
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Back to back looks pretty good but congo is way to big and not enough expos.
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I really like Back to Back. It just looks more refreshing than some of the maps that have been coming out. The rush distance seems to be pretty longer, but I don't think it looks longer than--say desert oasis. I could see myself being able to blink into mains from that expansion adjacent to it. Fun!
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EPT![[image loading]](http://capitainelechimp.free.fr/scmap1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://capitainelechimp.free.fr/scmap2-2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://capitainelechimp.free.fr/scmap2.jpg)
