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(2)Back to Back, (2)Congo, small and huge maps

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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chuky500
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
France473 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-05 12:17:48
May 25 2010 21:01 GMT
#1
I made 2 maps, the first one is kind of small and the other one is the biggest available. I'd like to hear what you think needs to be corrected. They're both uploaded to the European server if you want to test them. Back to Back is on the American server too.

I've read on teamliquid that new mappers often make gimmicky maps so I have a few questions. Do I need to remove some features ? Do you think some races are unfavored ?

Back to Back
1vs1 map
small 168x184
Download (click Télécharger ce fichier)

[image loading]

Update : + Show Spoiler +
- I fixed the gas in the golden expansion
----
- I removed several cliffs or made them unpathable.
- I moved the main ramp a bit closer to the natural.
- The choke is narrower.
- The main has a bit more space but not too much.
- The 3rd expansion's entrance is wider.
- The gold expansions ramps are narrower.
- I removed the 2 useless towers.


The main is small so when you expand your natural kind of becomes your main. You can make a wall down your ramp so it either covers both bases or closes the corridor on the side of the main. It's easier to defend 2 bases if they're close to each other but you can also have more casualties if you don't defend well.

Down the gold expansion there are high grasses so it's easier to attack than defend it. Instead of a line of grass it's made of several grass patches. You can place your army in the grasses and have an air unit for vision.
One other thing I'm worried about is more a game imbalance but if a Terran spawns in the bottom spot he can wall-in quickly with just a supply depot, a barracks and a reactor/tech lab wereas on the top spot you have to build one more supply depot. Do you think I have to change the layout to fix this ?

Previous version + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]



Congo
1vs1 map
huge 256x256
Download (click Télécharger ce fichier)

[image loading]


Update : + Show Spoiler +
- Removed the cliffs in the middle.
- Made the middle larger.
- There are 2 new paths to the enemy.
- The choke is wider.
- The 2 towers now don't fully cover the middle.


Several people on teamliquid were complaining maps weren't as big as Starcraft 1 maps so I made this map the biggest size available. I wrote huge but the size name in the editor is "epic". All bases can be accessed through ground.

Behind the choke I had to put destuctible rocks that open the 3rd expansion. Without them it would be too easy to proxy something there. I also tried high grass patches after the choke to make retreating easier if the attack fails.

Previous version + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
IrT4nkz
Profile Joined May 2010
229 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-25 21:08:47
May 25 2010 21:07 GMT
#2
Congo seems way to big, maybe you can shrink it a little by having less of the water terrain or add more expo's to the map.

Then again, Congo won't be viable in anyway for a 1v1 matchup, the rush distance is too far for one player to scout the opponent's tech in time. It also has a lot of places where Terran/Protoss can cheese as well.

Tip: Try to keep the rush distance between both main's about ~35seconds (should be somewhere there for the current map pool basing it off worker movement speed)
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-25 21:11:18
May 25 2010 21:09 GMT
#3
Both maps look pretty interesting.

On the 2nd map: As a zerg player that long choke with cliffs is pretty worrisome, but there's a ton of space to bypass it with a nydus worm. Also the map size is large, but so little of the space is usable that it's probably going to function like a much smaller map, but with loooooong rush distances. Still seems cool though.

I love the short path in the first map. It's really short to get from your main to mid map, but a lot further to get to the enemy's main. Seems like an interesting dynamic.
Logo
Morayfire73
Profile Joined April 2010
United States298 Posts
May 25 2010 21:12 GMT
#4
I like how Congo looks, seems rather barren, and doesn't look like there is any point of leaving the area around your main for a while (you have 3 expos guarded by one ramp. I think that you gotta do something to make map control more valuable there, like maybe a tower that gives even more sight (think that that can be changed) but otherwise very nice map.
[Insert witty comment here]
Amber[LighT]
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States5078 Posts
May 25 2010 21:13 GMT
#5
you should make a big 4 player map instead of a large 2 player map, just personal request

(I only say this cuz it seems you have a LOT of extra room on the 2nd map)
"We have unfinished business, I and he."
Rkie
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States1278 Posts
May 25 2010 21:13 GMT
#6
not bad, i like the idea of a necessary second especially for toss
FortuneSyn
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
1826 Posts
May 25 2010 21:14 GMT
#7
hah congo is sick!!! It realistically prob wont be chosen in any serious play because of its size, but damn that would be fun to play.
Catch]22
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden2683 Posts
May 25 2010 21:14 GMT
#8
the 2nd one is a bit TOO big mate, but they actually look really nice
BlueBird.
Profile Joined August 2008
United States3889 Posts
May 25 2010 21:16 GMT
#9
I feel like on Congo there should be land between the gold and that expansion spot across the water, having only one Large thin choke just seems like bad news =/.

I feel like the bigger maps people are talking about are things like wide open fighting areas and big 4 player maps like andromeda, and less maps that are just full of choke points like incineration zone
Currently Playing: Android Netrunner, Gwent, Gloomhaven, Board Games
uNiGNoRe
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
Germany1115 Posts
May 25 2010 21:16 GMT
#10
I really think the second map is way to big for two players. At least make it a four player map or something.
However, I do like the first map. There are still a few things I would change:
- The rush distance seems to be too short. Move the ramps to the mains a little closer to the natural.
- It seems pretty easy to bunker up at 3 bases as Terran. I would make at least one of the entrances (to the main from the middle, or to the 3rd from the middle) a little bit wider.
- I would move the entrance to the 3rd closer to the middle to make it easier to flank on an attack and to make counter attacks more viable.
- The main bases are a little too small. I prefer a bigger base and a smaller natural. But that's just my opinion.
I'm not a pro so maybe I'm talking shit.
FliedLice
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany7494 Posts
May 25 2010 21:17 GMT
#11
Are the gold minerals on Back to Back located on higher ground than the gas?

looks weird
Kevmeister @ Dota2
Dataleif
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden252 Posts
May 25 2010 21:21 GMT
#12
on Congo i'd be worried about a toss pushing with forcefield vs z in the long narrow middle. I suppose one could drop/nydus the sides and kind of just defend where the path is not quite so narrow.

Back to back i like. lots of wide spaces where a z can spread out the units and 2 paths to the enemy.
dogmeatstew
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada574 Posts
May 25 2010 21:21 GMT
#13
On May 26 2010 06:16 uNiGNoRe wrote:
- The rush distance seems to be too short. Move the ramps to the mains a little closer to the natural.
- It seems pretty easy to bunker up at 3 bases as Terran. I would make at least one of the entrances (to the main from the middle, or to the 3rd from the middle) a little bit wider.
- I would move the entrance to the 3rd closer to the middle to make it easier to flank on an attack and to make counter attacks more viable.
I'm not a pro so maybe I'm talking shit.

I agree with these points and would add that some of the distances might be a little to close which could give terran an imbalance for dropping tanks and just spotting the cliff; specifically I see that possibly being an issue with the expansion by the main (not the natural obviously).

They both look super pretty though.
Madkipz
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Norway1643 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-25 21:42:09
May 25 2010 21:40 GMT
#14
CONGO IS SOO SICK AND INSANE ME AND MY FRIENDS LOVE YOU ;D
"Mudkip"
rackdude
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States882 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-25 21:48:54
May 25 2010 21:48 GMT
#15
First one has P imbalance. You made it so that you have to fast expand to the nat to build a bunch of buildings, but it's such a wide choke to guard both the main and the nat that you cannot FE too well. PvZ would be tough I think. Make that smaller and I think you have a great map.
Sweet.
jewce
Profile Joined May 2009
United States68 Posts
May 25 2010 21:49 GMT
#16
On May 26 2010 06:21 dogmeatstew wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2010 06:16 uNiGNoRe wrote:
- The rush distance seems to be too short. Move the ramps to the mains a little closer to the natural.
- It seems pretty easy to bunker up at 3 bases as Terran. I would make at least one of the entrances (to the main from the middle, or to the 3rd from the middle) a little bit wider.
- I would move the entrance to the 3rd closer to the middle to make it easier to flank on an attack and to make counter attacks more viable.
I'm not a pro so maybe I'm talking shit.

I agree with these points and would add that some of the distances might be a little to close which could give terran an imbalance for dropping tanks and just spotting the cliff; specifically I see that possibly being an issue with the expansion by the main (not the natural obviously).

They both look super pretty though.


I actually like back to back, but could use some touching up. This basically sums it up for me ^
Nothing but a worthless waste of breath.
charlie420247
Profile Joined November 2009
United States692 Posts
May 25 2010 21:53 GMT
#17
ya second one is huge. lol kinda looks like it belongs in elder scrolls 3 =p.
there are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who dont.
Talic_Zealot
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
688 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-25 22:02:58
May 25 2010 21:56 GMT
#18
That Back to Back map looks cool, despite it being with a small size the rush distance is quite far.
It would be even more interesting if for instance when you are at the bottom right position and you wanna go through the middle, the open area at the left is on lower ground and there is a ramp which many units are hard to get through.
There are three types of people in the universe: those who can count, and those who cant.
Talic_Zealot
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
688 Posts
May 25 2010 22:00 GMT
#19
You can also try making the gold a little bit easier to defend, yeah it is 'gold' but still this would be way to hard to take.
There are three types of people in the universe: those who can count, and those who cant.
locus117
Profile Joined May 2010
United States3 Posts
May 25 2010 22:11 GMT
#20
is there a way to download these for the US server? or can u upload them? all out player made maps are custom crap. no good melee ones and these look great!
"Just go fucking kill him." - Day9
Koffiegast
Profile Joined February 2010
Netherlands346 Posts
May 25 2010 22:16 GMT
#21
I like the first one, the second one worries me a bit with many chokes and the 256x256 size (thats epic size, not large if i recall correctly)
Wut
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
May 25 2010 22:19 GMT
#22
On the map Back to Back, maybe you should switch the natural and the main to make it like some BW maps with the natural behind the main or whatever. If you were to do this, I would make the main choke smaller and the natural choke bigger.
palanq
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States761 Posts
May 25 2010 22:21 GMT
#23
these are really cool. can't wait to double expo before making any units on congo LOL

it looks really hard to attack in congo because there's a single area of the map that defends 4 bases by ground, including the gold... not to mention, it's so huge.
time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana
Xeken
Profile Joined May 2010
United States77 Posts
May 25 2010 22:30 GMT
#24
It's hard to compare tell exactly how much area the tower covers from the natural, but could that tower be potentially devastating with a siege tank set-up, making it more difficult than normal to assault the location?
chuky500
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
France473 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-25 22:44:26
May 25 2010 22:43 GMT
#25
I uploaded the maps there http://dl.free.fr/iX73vTfps Click on "Télécharger ce fichier"

They're the files from the editor though. You'll have to publish them to be able to play from the US server.
locus117
Profile Joined May 2010
United States3 Posts
May 26 2010 00:38 GMT
#26
sweet thanks!
"Just go fucking kill him." - Day9
Zergneedsfood
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10671 Posts
May 26 2010 00:41 GMT
#27
I personally think that Congo should be like.....a four player map, or bigger then a four player map.

Hahaha. Sounds EPIC.
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ Make a contract with me and join TLADT | Onodera isn't actually a girl, she's just a doormat you walk over to get to the girl. - Numy 2015
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
May 26 2010 00:44 GMT
#28
Some of the towers seem like they is in a bad place on the first one. What is the point of the ones tucked in your natural?
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
OptimoPeach
Profile Joined July 2009
United States137 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-26 01:11:15
May 26 2010 00:59 GMT
#29
On May 26 2010 09:44 Two_DoWn wrote:
Some of the towers seem like they is in a bad place on the first one. What is the point of the ones tucked in your natural?

This is my only real complaint. I think 4 towers is a little superfluous for the size of the map, and it'd probably be fine to just leave it at the 2 in mid. I dunno if I agree with the people saying the rush distance is too short. I thought so at first, but the path you have to take is winding enough that I don't think it's any shorter than Steppes of War. Maybe it's even a bit longer? Anyway, overall it looks great. I can't wait to try it out.

The second one seems way too big for 1v1, but then I've never been too fond of giant 1v1 maps in the first place
Phiru
Profile Joined April 2010
United States9 Posts
May 26 2010 01:00 GMT
#30
I like Back to back. The way the main and natural are arranged should make for interesting play. The small chokes by the main and natural could promote early expand play but the part I really like is the back to back mineral patches. There is such a short fly distance for any harassment(thor drop, banshees, muta) but such a long walk distance for any ground based defense. It's like the nat/gold on blistering sands/steppes but taken to the extreme. We don't see enough econ harass in SC2 so this map should make for some interesting games.
OptimoPeach
Profile Joined July 2009
United States137 Posts
May 26 2010 02:27 GMT
#31
I published Back to Back on the US server because no one else had yet and I wanted to try it with a friend. Unfortunately the name "Back to Back" wasn't available for some reason, so it's published under "Back to Back (TL)".
CagedMind
Profile Joined February 2010
United States506 Posts
May 26 2010 02:53 GMT
#32
Umm back to back is a pretty large map. Desert oasis is 140x140
your micro has been depleted
ttlranger
Profile Joined April 2010
United States22 Posts
May 26 2010 02:55 GMT
#33
Those look nice. With Back to Back, I kind of feel like the ramp to the main should be adjusted. It seems like it'd be difficult to defend the main and the natural with a zerg force. Just as a hypothetical example (which might not be a good idea, just an example of what I'm thinking), if you were to move the natural mineral lines a few clicks towards the center of the map and then move the main ramps closer to the edges of the map, it would simultaneously increase the rush distance (except for cliff hoppers!) and allow the natural expo to serve as a defensive barrier for the main.

With Congo, it seems like there's a lot of unplayable space and a lot of narrow choking paths. It's almost like an island map. Maybe that's what you're going for, but if you want to see much ground army play, I'd think you should widen some of those paths. An alternate route might be interesting, too. What I like about Congo is that, although there's a gigantic rush distance, the naturals are also kind of far from the main. It changes things up. It's a little more difficult to get forces to your natural for defense, but it's also a long walk for your enemy to get any troops to your base.
one from many
WniO
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2706 Posts
May 26 2010 02:57 GMT
#34
congo looks sweet man.
Darby.mcg
Profile Joined May 2010
United States16 Posts
May 26 2010 03:34 GMT
#35
Haven't played either yet. B2B looks awesome! can't wait to play it! With Congo, like everyone else, the middle choke looks insanely thin for such a large map, dropping a few siege tanks just feels like hurt in my brain (colossi with range too). especially with the watch towers, no ground army is going to make it through that. I think it will either be almost all air, or fighting for control of that one choke.
jamesr12
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1549 Posts
May 26 2010 03:43 GMT
#36
256x256 is wayyy to big for 1v1 shrink it down to like half that and it looks like it could be a fun map although very imba because of the one walking path with a cliff will make it terran favored. Just check the rush distance time I bet it is double what it is on any of the 1v1 currently save DO
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=306479
DrSmoke
Profile Joined April 2010
United States175 Posts
May 26 2010 03:50 GMT
#37
I like giant maps. Looks like fun.
OptimoPeach
Profile Joined July 2009
United States137 Posts
May 26 2010 04:46 GMT
#38
On May 26 2010 11:55 ttlranger wrote:
Those look nice. With Back to Back, I kind of feel like the ramp to the main should be adjusted. It seems like it'd be difficult to defend the main and the natural with a zerg force. Just as a hypothetical example (which might not be a good idea, just an example of what I'm thinking), if you were to move the natural mineral lines a few clicks towards the center of the map and then move the main ramps closer to the edges of the map, it would simultaneously increase the rush distance (except for cliff hoppers!) and allow the natural expo to serve as a defensive barrier for the main.

After doing a few games, I like this idea. The mains also feel a bit cramped, but that's probably just because I play Terran so I have fucking supply depots and tech labs strewn all over the place. Minor stuff, though. I really like the map, and I'll play it just as much as any other Blizzard map.

Let me know if you update it or get an account on the US server so I can pull your current version that I have published there
teekesselchen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany886 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-26 05:01:49
May 26 2010 04:52 GMT
#39
Gotta say that I actually hate the idea of large maps in Starcraft 2 right now. The game just doesn't seem to fit to it.
This is my opinion since I had a 1on1 on shakuras plateau, this 2on2 map, on cross positions. It totally demolished the tactics that were available back then and it was absolutely boring. Ok, now the game might be a bit more macro orientated but however, it just takes yeeeeeaaaaarrrrrs for a Thor to get from one base to the oponents.

About back to back: Although I always keep an eye on the size of the main base, it's an interesting feature that players are practically forced to build at their naturals very early and are encouraged to get a fast expansion. It surely looks like it could be place of many cool macro games. But (only from the overview so far) it looks like there wasn't much efforts in optical design. The main thing I noticed was that there are many very straight and long cliffs what looks kinda bad especially for "natural" cliff type.
Edit: Ok, rechecked, actually it's only at a very few spots.

I'ld love to see a second more "standard" version with a normal sized main of it because I also like the rest of that map.
When they were introduced, he made a witticism, hoping to be liked. She laughed extremely hard, hoping to be liked. Then each drove home alone, staring straight ahead, with the very same twist to their faces.
Endymion
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States3701 Posts
May 26 2010 06:13 GMT
#40
I have only played back to back so far, and I was very interested in the LoS blocker "forest" you created. I think that it's an ingenious idea, it really puts a lot of stress on controlling the watchtower, while in the early game you could have two forces passing right by each other and never knowing! I think it would make for very interesting play as well as a point of interest for spectators, while not really shifting favor to one race or another because of flying units late game. All in all its a fantastic mechanic!
Have you considered the MMO-Champion forum? You are just as irrational and delusional with the right portion of nostalgic populism. By the way: The old Brood War was absolutely unplayable
chuky500
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
France473 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-01 22:21:28
May 28 2010 17:56 GMT
#41
I've updated the map Back to Back. It's in the EU and US server. Here's the link (click Télécharger ce fichier).

changelog :
- I removed several cliffs or made them unpathable.
- I moved the main ramp a bit closer to the natural.
- The choke is narrower.
- The main has a bit more space but not too much.
- The 3rd expansion's entrance is wider.
- The gold expansions ramps are narrower.
- I removed the 2 useless towers.

Picture : + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
MoreFaSho
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1427 Posts
May 28 2010 18:06 GMT
#42
It's kind of funny that these ridiculously large maps should favor zerg ground which turns a highly mobile army into a ridiculously mobile army.
I always try to shield slam face, just to make sure it doesnt work
chuky500
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
France473 Posts
June 01 2010 22:33 GMT
#43
Now Congo is updated too. Here's the link. I'll upload it to the EU server when it's up again.

- I Removed the cliffs in the middle.
- Made the middle larger.
- There are 2 new paths to the enemy.
- The choke is wider.
- The 2 towers now don't fully cover the middle.

Picture : + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

PS : I'd still like to hear what you think of the new version of Back to Back.
TriniMasta
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1323 Posts
June 01 2010 22:35 GMT
#44
Wow good job on back to back, going to use this for my interschool tournament!
Congo looks too confusing O.O
ANyways great job, you're an excellent map maker!
정명훈 FIGHTING!!! Play both T and P.
chuky500
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
France473 Posts
June 05 2010 12:33 GMT
#45
I fixed the gold exapansion's gas on Back to Back. Here's the new file http://dl.free.fr/gOP4Ue51O

I was unable to update my maps since patch 14, so I had to install Starcraft 2 from another computer and publish from there. So now the new version of Congo is uploaded too.
Onlinejaguar
Profile Joined April 2010
Australia2823 Posts
June 05 2010 12:45 GMT
#46
Back to back looks pretty good but congo is way to big and not enough expos.
Setz3R
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States455 Posts
June 05 2010 12:45 GMT
#47
I really like Back to Back. It just looks more refreshing than some of the maps that have been coming out. The rush distance seems to be pretty longer, but I don't think it looks longer than--say desert oasis. I could see myself being able to blink into mains from that expansion adjacent to it. Fun!
twitch.tv/setz3r
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