EPTPower Rank 05/15/2009 - Page 14
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Mista_Masta
Netherlands557 Posts
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n.DieJokes
United States3443 Posts
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On May 16 2009 10:34 n.DieJokes wrote: Wow... just as reference, I generally keep an eye out for JWD's posts and usually I'm up in arms about it. Nothing personal, I just feel like every player you like (think is the next big thing, terrans, Skt1 players...), I irrationally dispise. That said, after reading the thread comments and your reasoning... I'm sadly in agreement with your rank (well minus Thezerg; I like violet). Excellent job, very thoughtful and well writen and I look forward to more power ranks from you. Thanks a lot man!! | ||
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Yiruru
Canada690 Posts
Other than that, you really do need to stop mentioning stats. I mean,  HoGiL has a better record (5-1) than  fantasy in R4 but I don't see him. | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On May 16 2009 10:51 Yiruru wrote: I'm wondering why you say this PR is based off "last month's powerful gamers" and then you include games from May Oh, this is just a semantic problem - by "the last month" or (I guess I may have shortened it to) "last month"'s gamers I really mean the last month of SC play, or the time between last PR (mid-April) and now. That includes games from both April and May. I mention stats because they're interesting...but in both my OP and the comments here I've used plenty of other methods to justify my ranking. And if by "stats" you mean "whether a player is winning or losing" then yeah, I think stats are pretty important to a PR. Don't you? | ||
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erin[go]bragh
United States815 Posts
I hate to contribute nothing of my own, but really. This is entertaining! Just please keep it civil. JWD has been cool headed and more than happy to answer any questions or comments in a calm and collected manner. If you have an argument to make, don't be rude and don't be aggressive and for the love of god don't resort to the "you're wrong because I say so" attitude, it just hurts your cause. Still, it seems most of the qualms people have are really based on a difference of perception as to what the definition of "Power Rank" actually is... | ||
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Goragoth
New Zealand1065 Posts
+9 ZerO+8  Bisu+7 EffOrt, Calm+5 fantasy, Jaedong, sKyHigh, Flash, Kwanro+4 Leta, Thezerg, HoGiL, IrisOf course a Power Rank should always take into account more than just raw (and potentially misleading) statistics, so I am by no means advocating using this as the ranking. I just thought that it might be interesting. | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
On May 16 2009 12:15 JWD wrote: Thanks Goragoth, interesting information. Also a pretty obvious hint as to why ZerO is where he is in the rank. Relative to Jaedong, 4 of ZerO's wins are in situations where Jaedong didn't have to play because he won the previous OSL. ZerO's record is inflated by 4-0ing his OSL group, so if that's a metric used, he's going to be ahead of players who pre-qualified for OSL. ZerO really doesn't feel like he played strong enough to catapult past Jaedong, particuarly with the fact that he continued into MSL. | ||
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GeneralStan
United States4789 Posts
I think your problem, JWD, is that you aren't being honest to any sort of ranking system. Your argument for ZerO being ahead of Jaedong is nothing more than pure statistics in the past month. Yet by any pure statistics reckoning over the last month, ZerO also had a better month than Fantasy. Clearly pure statistics is not the driving factor behind this Power Rank (and thankfully not too). Of course a subjective assessment of player skill is certainly an allowed and encouraged component of a good Power Ranking. But you're running into a huge brick wall attempting to justify ZerO as a better player than Jaedong. Wins and losses aside, Jaedong is a beastly competitor who lifted himself effortlessly out of a minislump to stay alive in all leagues and contribute enough to his team's proleague performance to keep them #1. He'd be favored in any BoX against any player on the planet (though against Bisu or Fantasy that may be only marginally favored). There are a half dozen players I would take over ZerO in a heart beat. Obviously head to head, ZerO would stand a snowball's chance in hell. Historically, there has been also some stickiness in the Power Ranking. Certainly it isn't like the KeSPA ranking that allows a player to slump hard for three months before they even move, but to get into the top three should be a real feat. Jaedong, as stated above, is not exactly slumping. Zero had an admirable month, but to see him vault from off the rank (acknowledged in last month's CBNC as a terrible, terrible player) to over Jaedong is ridiculous. The only argument that I see is that he did better in Proleague. Plus for Jaedong: Favored against Zero in BoX. Favored against any player at any time, pretty much Coming off dominant month. Neutral: Alive in all three leagues Plus for Zero: Better proleague performance. If you have any other pluses for ZerO, I'd love to see them. I dunno. Jaedong drops a couple of games and everybody panics. It's a sign of how good he is that such a powerful month is seen as subpar for him. It's just a disappointment because it seems like last month's stats are such a power reason to place Zero over Jaedong. The only plus side is i can be pretty much certain that in the long run, Jaedong is going to have Starleague wins and many #1 months ahead of him, whereas ZerO is a historically extremely shaky player. Enjoy your #3, Zero, you haven't earned it. | ||
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barbahaba0
Israel226 Posts
just to understand what power rank is the 10 most promising players of last month ?? the 10 most fearsome players of the last month ??? i still dont get it cause the new ranking are not so logical putting zero above jaedong is so so so wrong in so many aspects in what way do u suggest zero is better than him ?? i think there should be some consistency to the "power rank" notice how older ranking hardly change and if they do than not by much now it seems pointless to write the +2 or - 4 cause each ranking there's new faces it reminds me of a child trying to judge whats more tasty chocolate or vanilla i'm sorry to say but the more u look at it the more power ranking has lost it effect on my judgement sorry steve!! ps not saying i would do a better job god forbid just its impossible to have so many changes on who's #1 in 1 month hoping for some better ranking next monthand hoping its not too late maybe by explaining what pr really means i may have the courage to trust upon it again!! | ||
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
On May 16 2009 12:24 Niton wrote: Relative to Jaedong, 4 of ZerO's wins are in situations where Jaedong didn't have to play because he won the previous OSL. ZerO's record is inflated by 4-0ing his OSL group, so if that's a metric used, he's going to be ahead of players who pre-qualified for OSL. ZerO really doesn't feel like he played strong enough to catapult past Jaedong, particuarly with the fact that he continued into MSL. Good thing Jaedong already qualified for the OSL or else he might have gotten knocked out. It's hard to say, but Zero 4-0'ing his group is no mean feat and does speak volumes about his current strength right now. | ||
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frogmelter
United States971 Posts
I have read the entire thread [every single one of the posts] and just have one question. If Jaedong and Zero played ZvZ at the time that this PR was written [Best out of 5] who do you think would win? | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On May 16 2009 12:42 frogmelter wrote: Hi JWD I have read the entire thread [every single one of the posts] and just have one question. If Jaedong and Zero played ZvZ at the time that this PR was written [Best out of 5] who do you think would win? Jaedong, 3>2. But I should add I think this matchup is almost impossible to call right now. If it happens in OSL or MSL, I'll be on the very edge of my seat. A major advantage for JD over ZerO in series play is his mental toughness. | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
On May 16 2009 12:41 thunk wrote: Good thing Jaedong already qualified for the OSL or else he might have gotten knocked out. It's hard to say, but Zero 4-0'ing his group is no mean feat and does speak volumes about his current strength right now. That's a pretty bad double standard. If you qualify for a league, you've earned it. No one's doubting Bisu's position in the OSL and it would be equally ridiculous to doubt Jaedong's. | ||
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frogmelter
United States971 Posts
On May 16 2009 12:42 JWD wrote: Jaedong, 3>2. But I should add I think this matchup is almost impossible to call right now. If it happens in OSL or MSL, I'll be on the very edge of my seat. Okay thank you for taking your time to answer my question Although I might not agree with your Power ranking completely, your reasons for justifying your placement are valid enough. Keep up the good work!  | ||
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KnightOfNi
United States1508 Posts
LOL EPIC POWER RANK | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
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barbahaba0
Israel226 Posts
On May 16 2009 12:33 barbahaba0 wrote: wow honestly JWD just to understand what power rank is the 10 most promising players of last month ?? the 10 most fearsome players of the last month ??? i still dont get it cause the new ranking are not so logical putting zero above jaedong is so so so wrong in so many aspects in what way do u suggest zero is better than him ?? i think there should be some consistency to the "power rank" notice how older ranking hardly change and if they do than not by much now it seems pointless to write the +2 or - 4 cause each ranking there's new faces it reminds me of a child trying to judge whats more tasty chocolate or vanilla i'm sorry to say but the more u look at it the more power ranking has lost it effect on my judgement sorry JWD!! ps not saying i would do a better job god forbid just its impossible to have so many changes on who's #1 in 1 month hoping for some better ranking next monthand hoping its not too late maybe by explaining what pr really means i may have the courage to trust upon it again!! there changed it understandable mistake ! | ||
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