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On April 14 2009 15:41 SerpentFlame wrote:
but he's only showed brilliance in the final in ZvP
like suiciding a shittone of lings for nothing when the crack upgrade kikcs in (game 2)?
And i didnt saw his briliance in the first game when Jangbi made 2 mistakes which B level porgamers dont (forge misplacing, sending his main army willingly into an obviously unbreakable defence position). Game 3, with 7 lings in Jangbi's base couldnt kill any probes till the zealot came out when he was forced to attack, and killed like 2, JB lost miniing time ofc. Than Jangbi gone 2 stargates. i dont think there are any progamers who would lose when they got 7 lings in the opponents base + the toss goes 2 stargate against their mass-hydra.
He played well, made just a few mistakes, but almost nothing brilliant
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Games Luxury gets destroyed by nonstandard play:
Luxury vs Leta (on Destination from earlier and Neo Harmony in the SL Bo5), Luxury vs Fantasy (game 3 especially), Luxury vs BeSt (games 3 and 4) last OSL and the zealot-counter-attack-vs-mutalisks Proleague game.
Games Luxury destroys someone with nonstandard (not stupid, just unconventional, and stock standard cheeses don't count) play: N/A
Fortunately for Luxury, Jangbi plays nothing outside of stock standard in PvZ
Also, I know that Luxury can be really inconsistent sometimes, but does he really deserve number 2 because he is? Losing to Pure, WHEN his team is down 0-2 and his team needs the victory so flash can jump out and epic rape, is not PR material, especially because the Proleague has a fair deal of importance to it, more so than the GOM even. Losing to NBS in a similar fashion is also unspectacular, in the WL top 3 even more so. Dropping games sometimes is fine, but doing so at the alarming frequency Luxury is, is just not number 2 material. Being a team player is important too :<
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On April 14 2009 15:54 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2009 15:41 SerpentFlame wrote:
but he's only showed brilliance in the final in ZvP like suiciding a shittone of lings for nothing when the crack upgrade kikcs in (game 2)? And i didnt saw his briliance in the first game when Jangbi made 2 mistakes which B level porgamers dont (forge misplacing, sending his main army willingly into an obviously unbreakable defence position). Game 3, with 7 lings in Jangbi's base couldnt kill any probes till the zealot came out when he was forced to attack, and killed like 2, JB lost miniing time ofc. Than Jangbi gone 2 stargates. i dont think there are any progamers who would lose when they got 7 lings in the opponents base + the toss goes 2 stargate against their mass-hydra. He played well, made just a few mistakes, but almost nothing brilliant
well there you go
+ I haven`t seen Luxury play in any game like JD did in many vs Bisu ( bluestorm, destination, colloseum)
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This list seems decent. The only problem I have with it is Luxury being #2. I admit he is a good player but his recent performance has been below what it needs to be to be ahead of Bisu. Sure Bisu got rolled by fantasy but that was it. Bisu has played extremely well outside of that while Lux hasn't really proved himself past winning an MSL. His play outside the MSL has been bad. From what we can take from the one game Bisu has played since losing to Fantasy is that he still has that fire in him and could possibly take another Starlegue while Luxury looks like a one time deal.
Other wise this list looks fine to me, keep up the good work 
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On April 14 2009 16:18 SerpentFlame wrote:
Also, I know that Luxury can be really inconsistent sometimes, but does he really deserve number 2 because he is? Losing to Pure, WHEN his team is down 0-2 and his team needs the victory so flash can jump out and epic rape, is not PR material, especially because the Proleague has a fair deal of importance to it, more so than the GOM even. Losing to NBS in a similar fashion is also unspectacular, in the WL top 3 even more so. Dropping games sometimes is fine, but doing so at the alarming frequency Luxury is, is just not number 2 material. Being a team player is important too :<
I belive it's not inconsistency, he actually seemed pretty consistent to me. Usually playing like shit when his team needed him and usually playing really good when in mattered only for him.
I agree with you, Luxury will never be a serious PR material for me until he starts to play more for his team and less for himself. Like Flash or Jaedong do...
(and this is coming from a former big Luxury fan)
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Ok im going to list some complaints i have with this list:
1. Luxury having the best zvp in the world? Hes Park "Chance" Soo in a straightup game most of the time he gets roflestomped. A year ago he was known for his aweful zvp and because he beat one toss in a series now its godlike. Looking at it from a 15 game perspective july/jaedong both have far superior records. Hell his record is one win better then Calm.
2. Why on earth is nada at 10?! What about Leta/Hiya/Calm/manyothers? Nada narrowly lost to jangbi besides that what has he done to earn ranking. He didnt even win I know he played great but I wouldn't put money on him against any of the players I listed. Not to mention hes not getting played in the pro league roster not a good sign for his recovery.
3. How is Stork still so high he got roflstomped by Jangbi and has been surviving off aggressive builds/cheese lately. His record is also looking terrible.
4. Skyhigh did awesome against lecaf ok cool what else has he done? Even when he beat oz you have to remember JD had a failed 5 pool and their 2 tosses are utter dogshit (spear/young). The only impressive win that night was against Hiya.
5. WHERE THE HELL IS LETA
6. Fantasy is nowhere near the best terran on earth flash/leta both eons better. He survives off creative builds not superior play.
7. Flash should be in the CBNC I know hes awesome but he sucked ass this month. Rememeber when July won the osl and got 4th rank then did nothing for a month and dropped off the rank entirely. Why is this situation any different in his last 12 hes 4 wins 8 losses hes doing far worse then july was when he was stripped of rank entirely. Before you went solely based off of who did what in the month but now you rank based on past performance as well. Flash has done nothing this month and has no business on the rank.
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On April 15 2009 06:15 Kuja900 wrote:
2. Why on earth is nada at 10?! What about Leta/Hiya/Calm/manyothers?
Hiya and Calm have never done anything in an individual league, and never brought an S class game out this month. Nada meanwhile played one of the best sets in Starcraft history where it counted, against the toughest opponent he could've faced into today's starleagues. Calm played 4 games and lost to the mediocre piano and canata. Hiya is closer, going 6-3 against reasonable opponents (including jangbi), but still has never gotten even close to an individual league. (Remember that disaster vs Shuttle in the prelim stages?)
On April 15 2009 06:15 Kuja900 wrote:
5. WHERE THE HELL IS LETA
He played 3 games in March, right after getting knocked out of both Starleagues. One of his wins was against firefist, and the other was against Luxury when Luxury decided to get nothing but mutalisks way after science vessel tech hit (no hive, lurkertech but only 5-ish lurkers). His loss was to the below mentioned Flash.
On April 15 2009 06:15 Kuja900 wrote:
7. Flash should be in the CNBC I know hes awesome but he sucked ass this month. Rememeber when July won the osl and got 4th rank then did nothing for a month and dropped off the rank entirely. Why is this situation any different in his last 12 hes 4 wins 8 losses hes doing far worse then july was when he was stripped of rank entirely. Before you went solely based off of who did what in the month but now you rank based on past performance as well. Flash has done nothing this month and has no business on the rank.
Flash is a much more consistent player than Leta, proven against the very best of opponents, has played and won more games than Leta in March, and has beaten Leta in March as well, and has carried his team pretty much all the way to the Winner League finals before getting beaten in a great game by stim-packed Jaedong. Not only that, but Flash played much better in those games as well. Your claim that Flash deserves CBNC while simultaneously claiming Leta should be on the Power Rank makes zero sense. Flash might've "done nothing", but Leta's done less.
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Ok im going to list some complaints i have with your post:
On April 15 2009 06:15 Kuja900 wrote:
Ok im going to list some complaints i have with this list:
1. Luxury having the best zvp in the world? Hes Park "Chance" Soo in a straightup game most of the time he gets roflestomped. A year ago he was known for his aweful zvp and because he beat one toss in a series now its godlike. Looking at it from a 15 game perspective july/jaedong both have far superior records. Hell his record is one win better then Calm.
At the time of the PR, past 15 games vs. Toss according to TLPD:
Luxury: 12-3
July: 12-3
Jaedong: 10-5
Calm: 9-6
Not necessarily disagreeing with you about Luxury not being as good as JD and July at the matchup, but check your facts.
On April 15 2009 06:15 Kuja900 wrote:
2. Why on earth is nada at 10?! What about Leta/Hiya/Calm/manyothers? Nada narrowly lost to jangbi besides that what has he done to earn ranking. He didnt even win I know he played great but I wouldn't put money on him against any of the players I listed. Not to mention hes not getting played in the pro league roster not a good sign for his recovery.
This is gonna keep coming up so I'm going to bold it for you:
MARCH WAS A SLOW MONTH, NOT MUCH HAPPENED IN MARCH
between the March and April PRs,
Leta played 3 games total, all in one day in the proleague and went 2-1.
HiYa played 9 games total, all in proleague and went 6-3 (probably deserves mention)
Calm played 4 games total, all in proleague and went 2-2
NaDa's set with JangBi had some pretty inspiring play. While you're free to dispute whether he should be 10, it should be no surprise that in a slow month, 1 truly amazing Bo5 is all it took to sneak in at 10.
On April 15 2009 06:15 Kuja900 wrote:
3. How is Stork still so high he got roflstomped by Jangbi and has been surviving off aggressive builds/cheese lately. His record is also looking terrible.
I honestly completely agree with this, lol.
On April 15 2009 06:15 Kuja900 wrote:
4. Skyhigh did awesome against lecaf ok cool what else has he done? Even when he beat oz you have to remember JD had a failed 5 pool and their 2 tosses are utter dogshit (spear/young). The only impressive win that night was against Hiya.
March was a slow month, honestly, his 5-0 in proleague in March, including a reverse all kill in the playoff finals is enough that if I were in charge of the PRs, he'd be 6. So little happened that regardless of the circumstances, overcoming your stage fright to pull your team out of the abyss and onto the podium is better than just about anything else than happened in March.
On April 15 2009 06:15 Kuja900 wrote:
5. WHERE THE HELL IS LETA
playing 3 games and watching the playoffs
slow month, remember?
On April 15 2009 06:15 Kuja900 wrote:
6. Fantasy is nowhere near the best terran on earth flash/leta both eons better. He survives off creative builds not superior play.
I agree that FS's wording was a bit strong, but results are results and Fantasy blew away Flash and Leta's accomplishments in the month of March.
On April 15 2009 06:15 Kuja900 wrote:
7. Flash should be in the CNBC I know hes awesome but he sucked ass this month. Rememeber when July won the osl and got 4th rank then did nothing for a month and dropped off the rank entirely. Why is this situation any different in his last 12 hes 4 wins 8 losses hes doing far worse then july was when he was stripped of rank entirely. Before you went solely based off of who did what in the month but now you rank based on past performance as well. Flash has done nothing this month and has no business on the rank.
funny to me that in your 7th point you seem to be paying attention to what happened in the month when in 1, 2, 4 and 5 you seem to have no perspective on what was being considered for the PR. I agree with your point here though, same as with Stork.
Had I done the PRs, they would look like:
1. JD
2. Lux
3. Fantasy
4. Bisu
5. Jangbi
6. SkyHigh
7-9. some random ordering of Hiya, by.hero, and Nada
10. Uh, I dunno, goodfriend or something, lol what an uneventful month...
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Alot of my points were not as much against the actual rank, even though I disagree with alot of it, but more so against FS's portrayal of the players which is what really got to me. Although some of my arguments were against placement aswell. Fantasy as the best terran on earth and luxury as the best zvp inparticular.
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There's nothing wrong with surviving off creative straight-up builds instead of "superior" play, if it takes you to the OSL finals and wins Bo5's. If anything, mixing it up makes the scene far more entertaining. Arguably, without the creativity, BoxeR may not have been a better player than NC..YellOw. Play to your strengths.
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Why are people complaining about SkyHigh's placement? It is pretty low, and I actually think it could be a lot higher.
SkyHigh was instrumental in CJ's winners league domination. He played 4 games in the most high pressure situation I can imagine, and he played them pretty damn well. He was the only thing standing in between his team and defeat - and proleague (especially the finals) is taken quite seriously by the players.
For a player who used to be known for shaky nerves, I'd say thats quite good, wouldn't you? I would also say that overall, SkyHigh is a far better player than Leta - who many people think should still have a place on this rank after playing not-so-great for a while.
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People seem to not understand that its a monthly based system.
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No, it's a cumulative ranking of progamers with their most recent performance having more weight the past month's performances that is released monthly.
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On April 14 2009 15:48 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2009 12:50 Vasoline73 wrote:
Any CBNC for Hoejja? Or is he too rookie still? I guess he hasn't shown anything that great, but it would be cool to hear your thoughts Steve i think he has potential, but cheesing Bisu isnt enough...
Well, he almost beat JD in a ZvZ :D
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On April 15 2009 16:10 Vasoline73 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2009 15:48 Geo.Rion wrote:On April 14 2009 12:50 Vasoline73 wrote:
Any CBNC for Hoejja? Or is he too rookie still? I guess he hasn't shown anything that great, but it would be cool to hear your thoughts Steve i think he has potential, but cheesing Bisu isnt enough... Well, he almost beat JD in a ZvZ :D
Not really, if you closely analyzed that game, he massed up on lings to exploit a timing before Jaedong had mutalisks. But this left him with less mutalisks after the attack failed, so Jaedong just massed and rolled Hoejja over with his micro. I feel like Hoejja is a zerg version of Nal_ra, and we'll be seeing more unorthodox play from him in the future.
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there's no such thing as "almost" winning in a progamer zvz, jsut because of the anture of the matchup
the entire game the players are usually neck in neck, so as close as the game looks, it can't really be any other way
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On April 16 2009 04:51 anderoo wrote:
there's no such thing as "almost" winning in a progamer zvz, jsut because of the anture of the matchup
the entire game the players are usually neck in neck, so as close as the game looks, it can't really be any other way
well there are games like that, you can't say they arent. however if one of the zergs is winning a lingfight at the start that does not mean he is almost winning the game. For example Y[arnc] was damn close to win the first game in that PL series against JD, however the second one wasn't like that, there was a point when it seemed like Yellow might get it, but JD quickly wiped out those hopes
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On April 15 2009 15:33 Calyx wrote:
For a player who used to be known for shaky nerves, I'd say thats quite good, wouldn't you? I would also say that overall, SkyHigh is a far better player than Leta - who many people think should still have a place on this rank after playing not-so-great for a while.
? uhm no?
Leta unarguably shouldered OGN (maybe with a little Yarnc help) by himself while taking on both SL's.
Skyhigh is on a legendary proleague team with several tried veterans who can help SkyHigh grow and get better.
Leta is on a team, where he is looked up to as one of the "veterans" even though he is reletavly new to the scene. Next to him and Yarnc there are no really "good" players that can dominate in the SL's or the PL.
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On April 15 2009 06:15 Kuja900 wrote:
Ok im going to list some complaints i have with this list:
1. Luxury having the best zvp in the world? Hes Park "Chance" Soo in a straightup game most of the time he gets roflestomped. A year ago he was known for his aweful zvp and because he beat one toss in a series now its godlike. Looking at it from a 15 game perspective july/jaedong both have far superior records. Hell his record is one win better then Calm.
2. Why on earth is nada at 10?! What about Leta/Hiya/Calm/manyothers? Nada narrowly lost to jangbi besides that what has he done to earn ranking. He didnt even win I know he played great but I wouldn't put money on him against any of the players I listed. Not to mention hes not getting played in the pro league roster not a good sign for his recovery.
3. How is Stork still so high he got roflstomped by Jangbi and has been surviving off aggressive builds/cheese lately. His record is also looking terrible.
4. Skyhigh did awesome against lecaf ok cool what else has he done? Even when he beat oz you have to remember JD had a failed 5 pool and their 2 tosses are utter dogshit (spear/young). The only impressive win that night was against Hiya.
5. WHERE THE HELL IS LETA
6. Fantasy is nowhere near the best terran on earth flash/leta both eons better. He survives off creative builds not superior play.
7. Flash should be in the CBNC I know hes awesome but he sucked ass this month. Rememeber when July won the osl and got 4th rank then did nothing for a month and dropped off the rank entirely. Why is this situation any different in his last 12 hes 4 wins 8 losses hes doing far worse then july was when he was stripped of rank entirely. Before you went solely based off of who did what in the month but now you rank based on past performance as well. Flash has done nothing this month and has no business on the rank.
1. i agree, his z v p is brilliant and it sure as hell isn't better than jaedongs. but he did prepare well and did take the msl. he doenst win standard, relies on some kind of early game pressure to gget an advantage, but that his style to win z v p, and it seems to work. losing proleague games here and there he should win doesnt faze me. savior never did well in proleague during his prime along with bisu.
2. calm did absolutely nothing, no leagues, if i remember correctly. yeah, leta and nada are interchangeable imo, but oh well. the problem is besides leta, i dont think anyone did nething to justify climbing into the rankings. nada is there because there is noone better. (hiya.... he shoulda been there had he not FAILED in proleague)
3. stork double berthed into both starleagues. he made it pretty far. he lost to eventual winners in both leagues. he deserves a decent spot, what has the others done? flash crashed and burned in the beginning. nada and by.hero proceeded through one league only to similar advancement as stork. skyhigh i dont believe he even belongs in thsi rank.
4. i agree with you 100%. so what he has nerves to go on an all kill. 2 of the games were against complete scrubs, you dont even need nerves to beat young or spear when you are good as skyhigh. also, jaedong failed on his 5pool, so its like whatever, not even a real game. and against hiya.. he had one good game basically in the month near the end.
5. leta should be 9-10 and take out skyhigh.
6. fantasy's strength remind me of bisu back when he was first emerging. he can prepare like no other when it comes to BoX, but just your average decent gamer when it comes to games on the spot( like winner's league.) when he doesnt knwo the opponent.
7. i think the only thing that kept flash on this rank is his epic game against jaedong... but i believed that by.hero and nada would rank higher than him...
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On April 14 2009 15:48 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2009 12:50 Vasoline73 wrote:
Any CBNC for Hoejja? Or is he too rookie still? I guess he hasn't shown anything that great, but it would be cool to hear your thoughts Steve i think he has potential, but cheesing Bisu isnt enough...
cheesing?? rofl
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EPT
