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On March 15 2009 06:41 Polar_Bear wrote:
I think Stork was right by doing this rush. We all know that TM is a ZvP autowin. So in fact Stork knew that game 2 would decide the series. In general Stork's odds vs. JD aren't too good, especially at the moment.
The interesting thing is, that the rush DID work indeed, the crucial mistake was not to attack the morphing sunken colony with the first zealot and the cannon down the ramp in range of the sunken. If you watch the video carefully you'll notice that it took around 11-12 seconds till the sunken was finished after the zealot got up the ramp. This would have been enough time to kill it with the zealot and a cannon shooting up the ramp (focussing on the sunken, not on the overlord).
So that's what costed Stork the series... anyway gj JD, know we'll see the remacht JD vs. TY in the finals.
Does anyone know how the map exclusion works this OSL? I'd like to see a nice bo5. It would be more interesting without JD being up 1-0 before the games started...
"Stork would have won"? Puh-lease man, Stork might have had a chance if he had done that. JD had 4 lings ready almost instantly when that zealot got to the min line which means he probably could have killed off that zealot at least if stork got the sunk, and JD still had the other creep colony to up if things looked too grim.
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On March 15 2009 07:29 Darth Peter wrote:
It will be 1-1 before the game even starts because he has no chance on Taekdusa.
I hope so, but still I'd rather see a bo5 than a bo3.
On March 15 2009 19:17 Zinbiel wrote:
"Stork would have won"? Puh-lease man, Stork might have had a chance if he had done that. JD had 4 lings ready almost instantly when that zealot got to the min line which means he probably could have killed off that zealot at least if stork got the sunk, and JD still had the other creep colony to up if things looked too grim.
There was enough time to kill the sunken and save the Zealot from the Lings. To regain control of his ramp it would have taken lots of larvae and mins. I don't say "Stork would have won", I say he would have had a huge lead (let's call it 95% winning chance). There's nothing weaker in the game of SC than a Z with only one hatchery. On the other hand Stork got lucky that JD didn't go 9pool, which would've sealed him the deal.
To put it in a nutshell, my point was:
-trying this rush was reasonable on Stork's part, considering that the inofficial score was 1-1 at that point and he's clearly inferior to JD atm
-Stork got very lucky that JD decided to do a 12hatch-build without drone scout
-before JD noticed what was going on, everything went perfect for Stork, afterwards JD reacted very well
-there was a chance for Stork to transfer his sucessful rush to a big lead in the midgame by killing the first sunken
-Stork didn't take it and was screwed immediately
-> Stork's mistake was not the rush, but the decision not to attack the sunken
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On March 15 2009 22:15 Polar_Bear wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2009 07:29 Darth Peter wrote:
It will be 1-1 before the game even starts because he has no chance on Taekdusa.
I hope so, but still I'd rather see a bo5 than a bo3. Show nested quote +On March 15 2009 19:17 Zinbiel wrote:
"Stork would have won"? Puh-lease man, Stork might have had a chance if he had done that. JD had 4 lings ready almost instantly when that zealot got to the min line which means he probably could have killed off that zealot at least if stork got the sunk, and JD still had the other creep colony to up if things looked too grim. There was enough time to kill the sunken and save the Zealot from the Lings. To regain control of his ramp it would have taken lots of larvae and mins. I don't say "Stork would have won", I say he would have had a huge lead (let's call it 95% winning chance). There's nothing weaker in the game of SC than a Z with only one hatchery. On the other hand Stork got lucky that JD didn't go 9pool, which would've sealed him the deal. To put it in a nutshell, my point was: -trying this rush was reasonable on Stork's part, considering that the inofficial score was 1-1 at that point and he's clearly inferior to JD atm -Stork got very lucky that JD decided to do a 12hatch-build without drone scout -before JD noticed what was going on, everything went perfect for Stork, afterwards JD reacted very well -there was a chance for Stork to transfer his sucessful rush to a big lead in the midgame by killing the first sunken -Stork didn't take it and was screwed immediately -> Stork's mistake was not the rush, but the decision not to attack the sunken
With 4 lings and a sunken attacking, the Zealot can land about 4 hits(64/300hp) max. 2 extra drones and the gained mining time really would have made it end up being pretty much even, if not favor JD even more.
And there's nothing wrong with a 1-hatch Zerg for a short duration. It only gets inferior after the P is able to get more probes and stabilize his production. But with a build like that, his production and economy were at least on par with Stork's, as you could see.
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United States10328 Posts
yayyy a CBNC from fakesteve! Haven't seen one recently 
EDIT: anyway I find it amusing that the only MU bisu seems mortal in now is PvZ
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On March 16 2009 07:30 ]343[ wrote:yayyy a CBNC from fakesteve! Haven't seen one recently EDIT: anyway I find it amusing that the only MU bisu seems mortal in now is PvZ
Ironically I think the only matchup he does look IMmortal these days is PvP. Zergs have been owning him left and right lately(ATTENTION: I'm exaggerating of course!) and he hasn't faced a decent terran in a BoX since the GomTV series vs. Flash, which could have very well gone the other way imho.
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his pvz is still probably his best matchup, it's just also the one he's most likely to lose at
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On March 16 2009 08:46 traced wrote:
his pvz is still probably his best matchup, it's just also the one he's most likely to lose at
I'm confused, since there's a lot more S class terrans and protosses. So isn't that contradictory?
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On March 16 2009 08:04 Mooncat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2009 07:30 ]343[ wrote:yayyy a CBNC from fakesteve! Haven't seen one recently EDIT: anyway I find it amusing that the only MU bisu seems mortal in now is PvZ Ironically I think the only matchup he does look IMmortal these days is PvP. Zergs have been owning him left and right lately(ATTENTION: I'm exaggerating of course!) and he hasn't faced a decent terran in a BoX since the GomTV series vs. Flash, which although it was a 3-1 win, could have very well gone the other way imho.
Actually, that was 2-1. It was a Bo3.
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On March 16 2009 09:31 De4ngus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2009 08:04 Mooncat wrote:On March 16 2009 07:30 ]343[ wrote:yayyy a CBNC from fakesteve! Haven't seen one recently EDIT: anyway I find it amusing that the only MU bisu seems mortal in now is PvZ Ironically I think the only matchup he does look IMmortal these days is PvP. Zergs have been owning him left and right lately(ATTENTION: I'm exaggerating of course!) and he hasn't faced a decent terran in a BoX since the GomTV series vs. Flash, which although it was a 3-1 win, could have very well gone the other way imho. Actually, that was 2-1. It was a Bo3.
My bad  Sorry => Edited
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On March 16 2009 09:31 De4ngus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2009 08:04 Mooncat wrote:On March 16 2009 07:30 ]343[ wrote:yayyy a CBNC from fakesteve! Haven't seen one recently EDIT: anyway I find it amusing that the only MU bisu seems mortal in now is PvZ Ironically I think the only matchup he does look IMmortal these days is PvP. Zergs have been owning him left and right lately(ATTENTION: I'm exaggerating of course!) and he hasn't faced a decent terran in a BoX since the GomTV series vs. Flash, which although it was a 3-1 win, could have very well gone the other way imho. Actually, that was 2-1. It was a Bo3.
True, but Bisu also beat him in Proleauge shortly after the GomTV series.
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On March 16 2009 08:53 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2009 08:46 traced wrote:
his pvz is still probably his best matchup, it's just also the one he's most likely to lose at I'm confused, since there's a lot more S class terrans and protosses. So isn't that contradictory?
just because protoss are susceptible to a ton of rushes early, and if it's exotic enough then all they have to do is deny scouting and they have a real chance
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i think the TL staff should write an article about progamer tiers, because it seem that everyone is using the S class term, yet for everyone it has a different meaning. (some ppl say Kal and otherrs are S calss, others say there are only 3-4 S class players)
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well yeah, Kal has S class PvZ..., and also others have a MU in which they can compete with the best
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On March 16 2009 23:47 Geo.Rion wrote:
i think the TL staff should write an article about progamer tiers, because it seem that everyone is using the S class term, yet for everyone it has a different meaning. (some ppl say Kal and otherrs are S calss, others say there are only 3-4 S class players)
I don't think the staff are the outright authority on whether a player is S-class or not.
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On March 17 2009 00:20 fanatacist wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2009 23:47 Geo.Rion wrote:
i think the TL staff should write an article about progamer tiers, because it seem that everyone is using the S class term, yet for everyone it has a different meaning. (some ppl say Kal and otherrs are S calss, others say there are only 3-4 S class players) I don't think the staff are the outright authority on whether a player is S-class or not.
but they can tell what it means on this site, and how should ppl use it. it's not obligatory, but i would like more if it would be somehow fixed. Not like The following players are S class, the folowing are A etc. MOre liek than a player who is blabalb and blabla can be named as X class
whaterver, just wondering, i would like it at least
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Valhalla18444 Posts
the current S-Class is three players: Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu.
Stork when he's on top of shit can play S-Class starcraft, Jangbi's PvT is S-Class, etc. It's a generic term for 'the absolute best'. Kal is way too inconsistant.
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On March 17 2009 01:24 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
the current S-Class is three players: Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu.
Stork when he's on top of shit can play S-Class starcraft, Jangbi's PvT is S-Class, etc. It's a generic term for 'the absolute best'. Kal is way too inconsistant.
I agree with this.
I don't really think there should many disputes for who is/is not S class. Certain match-ups maybe.
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a few of NaDa's games and especially some vs Jangbi were S class as well. But there's a difference between playing a few games like an S class gamer ( -/- ) being a s class gamer. Obviously Im talking about 'right now ' otherwise NaDa would be the s classiest gamer ever anyways..
Right now i think its Flash, Jd , Bisu as well..
stork will in my eyes never be a s class gamer =(
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I think Jangbi is an all around S-Class protoss
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On March 17 2009 01:24 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
the current S-Class is three players: Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu.
Stork when he's on top of shit can play S-Class starcraft, Jangbi's PvT is S-Class, etc. It's a generic term for 'the absolute best'. Kal is way too inconsistant.
This
Flash, Jaedong and Bisu absoultly dominate when they play. Noone can watch their games and NOT be impressed
Stork Incruit level would be considered S-class methinks.
Jangbi is rising and rising fast, and if what FakeSteve says is valid, then he will soon join the upper echleons of power as the second S-class Protoss. His playstyle is very similar to Bisu's, just a bit more conservative. With an apm of 300+ and a great multitask, he could possibly break out even more in the next rounds of SL's. (scary shit)
Kal and Free are both wayy to inconsistant and have too many flaws in their gameplay.
Leta is still very new to the scene, and as one can witness from his spectacular crash from both starleagues, he is still wet behind the ears. If he can pull himself together and get together another ridiculous win streak i think we have a makings of a king.
The broodlings twins are sort of an anomoly to me. Lux is EXTREMLY streaky. I dont know when he wants to kick ass or when he wants to suck catastrophically. When he gets a semblance of balance and kicks ass for a longer period of time, i think he will get general approval.
I really dont know who else in the scene right now who would possibly earn the title of "s-class". Any ideas?
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EPT
