• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 12:32
CET 18:32
KST 02:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation12Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7
StarCraft 2
General
Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle What happened to TvZ on Retro? SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review BW General Discussion Brood War web app to calculate unit interactions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
PvZ map balance Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers How to stay on top of macro?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1815 users

Power Rank 12/14/2008 - Page 30

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
Prev 1 28 29 30 31 32 46 Next All
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-03 21:24:13
January 03 2009 21:23 GMT
#581
On January 04 2009 06:22 Phradamon wrote:
If someone asks himself right now if Leta should be on PR is unbelievable after all he played in recent 5 months...i think in last 5 months he has best score from all people, he's the most constant player from SC progaming from SKT vs OGN match last year

Everyone says Leta should be on the PR, no one is denying that. Though there are players that have been more consistent in the last year, like Best for example, who's been more successful as well.
Jaedong
SerpentFlame
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
415 Posts
January 03 2009 21:25 GMT
#582
On January 04 2009 04:48 Jaeden wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2009 03:28 AnOth3rDAy wrote:
On January 04 2009 03:23 Elyvilon wrote:
On January 04 2009 03:22 AnOth3rDAy wrote:
On January 04 2009 02:32 Elyvilon wrote:
On January 04 2009 01:46 TarsTarkas wrote:
I think that the problem with Leta's play style is that in a Starleague, in a series, many people think it won't do him much good. He waits for people to make mistakes, and this often happens - especially in pro league. But in a starleague this probably wont work out so well. I bet BeSt was waiting for July to make a mistake too -_-

I've seen a lot of people say this, but I'm not sure what it means. What makes Leta someone that waits for mistakes?


it means, usually progamers makes a few mistakes. Leta usually doesn't so he usually wins.
I get that much, but how does that make him different from the other top players?


well, according to some people the other top players can face a good opponent who doesn't make any mistakes and still win coz of insane macro micro etc..

one word: Creativity

Among even the top 10 in the PR, only a few of the players have shown that trait in the past few months.
I Wannabe[WHITE], the very BeSt[HyO], like Yo Hwan EVER Oz.......
Phradamon
Profile Joined January 2008
Romania191 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-03 21:34:12
January 03 2009 21:34 GMT
#583
On January 04 2009 06:23 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2009 06:22 Phradamon wrote:
If someone asks himself right now if (T)Leta should be on PR is unbelievable after all he played in recent 5 months...i think in (T)Last 5 months he has best score from all people, he's the most constant player from SC progaming from SKT vs OGN match (T)Last year

Everyone says (T)Leta should be on the PR, no one is denying that. Though there are players that have been more consistent in the (T)Last year, like Best for example, who's been more successful as well.



There are not 10 better/consistent players than (T)Leta, 6 maybe with him taking FBH place, but definatelly he should be infront of (P)Kal, (P)free, FBH and (T)Sea. I didnt consider (T)Sea deserved (T)Last month his place, now (T)Mind is more adequate.
I have the ultimate answer, i seek the ultimate question
911wasaLIE
Profile Joined January 2008
United States44 Posts
January 03 2009 22:58 GMT
#584
jaedong is obviously the best player ever
New Orleons Nightmare
Jaeden
Profile Joined September 2008
Romania1489 Posts
January 04 2009 00:04 GMT
#585
On January 04 2009 07:58 911wasaLIE wrote:
jaedong is obviously the best player ever

aye, mon
Boxer: " Lee Jae Dong is the best player. He`s all about the micro; he`s the player which has the most amazing control"
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
January 04 2009 00:23 GMT
#586
Creativity is overrated, IMO. Flash no longer has creativity(he used to). Stork for a long time gathered silvers without creativity. Once you succeed by playing a certain style, usually you don't deviate unless you are naturally creative, like Kal or FBH.

The problem with Leta is that he's shown a conservative style that's of LOWER quality than the top players. I happened to have seen both his game against Jangbi and against Best. Both players just crushed him. It's what happens when a conservative player plays a better player.
Meh
fanatacist
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
10319 Posts
January 04 2009 06:42 GMT
#587
Tempest vs. Light winner needs some sort of sick honorable mention.
Peace~
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-04 08:39:56
January 04 2009 08:37 GMT
#588
On January 04 2009 09:23 baubo wrote:
Creativity is overrated, IMO. Flash no longer has creativity(he used to). Stork for a long time gathered silvers without creativity. Once you succeed by playing a certain style, usually you don't deviate unless you are naturally creative, like Kal or FBH.

The problem with Leta is that he's shown a conservative style that's of LOWER quality than the top players. I happened to have seen both his game against Jangbi and against Best. Both players just crushed him. It's what happens when a conservative player plays a better player.


Letas TvP is probably his worst, kindof like FBH. Coz leta is really good TvT and TvZ.
His tvt includes wins vs firebathero sea mind forgg etc..

So its abit unfair to say that his style overall is of lower quality. Firebathero got 6th on PR based on his tvt and tvz.

also wow, now bisu and savior has the same ELO Peak^^
bisu is close to getting the highest ever, unless he loses to flash now.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
Darth Peter
Profile Joined October 2008
Romania438 Posts
January 04 2009 09:37 GMT
#589
I don't know if his T v P is bad. It's untested. Few months ago he has beaten Best and Kal too. He lost to Jangbi and Best recently,but you can't really tell his T v P is bad.
Darth Peter
Profile Joined October 2008
Romania438 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-04 09:52:39
January 04 2009 09:51 GMT
#590
The moment of truth is coming. I hope Bisu can beat Flash today. GL HF.
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
January 04 2009 09:57 GMT
#591
On January 04 2009 18:37 Darth Peter wrote:
I don't know if his T v P is bad. It's untested. Few months ago he has beaten Best and Kal too. He lost to Jangbi and Best recently,but you can't really tell his T v P is bad.


agreed, nevertheless one cannot use his TvP as a good arguement to put him high on the ranks.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
January 04 2009 11:30 GMT
#592
+ Show Spoiler [Bisu vs Flash] +
IMO Bisu and Flash should be #1 and #2 this next rank. I gotta go to sleep now, so I won't know how this series turns out, but its currently 1-1, and this has been a really sexy series. Great play out of both thus far.
"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
January 04 2009 12:07 GMT
#593
On January 04 2009 17:37 AnOth3rDAy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2009 09:23 baubo wrote:
Creativity is overrated, IMO. Flash no longer has creativity(he used to). Stork for a long time gathered silvers without creativity. Once you succeed by playing a certain style, usually you don't deviate unless you are naturally creative, like Kal or FBH.

The problem with Leta is that he's shown a conservative style that's of LOWER quality than the top players. I happened to have seen both his game against Jangbi and against Best. Both players just crushed him. It's what happens when a conservative player plays a better player.


Letas TvP is probably his worst, kindof like FBH. Coz leta is really good TvT and TvZ.
His tvt includes wins vs firebathero sea mind forgg etc..

So its abit unfair to say that his style overall is of lower quality. Firebathero got 6th on PR based on his tvt and tvz.


FBH is a lot more proven in his TvZ than Leta. He is legitimately S-class in two matchups. You can only say that about Leta in one.
Meh
Jaeden
Profile Joined September 2008
Romania1489 Posts
January 04 2009 12:11 GMT
#594
On January 04 2009 20:30 Sentenal wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [Bisu vs Flash] +
IMO Bisu and Flash should be #1 and #2 this next rank. I gotta go to sleep now, so I won't know how this series turns out, but its currently 1-1, and this has been a really sexy series. Great play out of both thus far.

how can u go to sleeeeep ?! :s
Boxer: " Lee Jae Dong is the best player. He`s all about the micro; he`s the player which has the most amazing control"
Darth Peter
Profile Joined October 2008
Romania438 Posts
January 04 2009 12:22 GMT
#595
+ Show Spoiler +
OMG it was one of the best series ever! I know I am biased as hell,but Damn!!! How can Bisu be so good. And give credit where it's due,Flash played well too,but the outcome was inevitable. I have already seen fanboys and Bisu haters come up with,well,Flash was sick,he didn't practice. Now let me ask. How much did Bisu practice when he had two games today before that? Simply the better player won. Perhaps Flash deserves no2 on the next PR,idk. It's hard to call tho. Stork does not deserve to be no2,but Flash doesn't deserve to be above Stork because he lost to him,and that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Perhaps put Bisu on the first 2 places
Jaeden
Profile Joined September 2008
Romania1489 Posts
January 04 2009 12:29 GMT
#596
On January 04 2009 21:22 Darth Peter wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
OMG it was one of the best series ever! I know I am biased as hell,but Damn!!! How can Bisu be so good. And give credit where it's due,Flash played well too,but the outcome was inevitable. I have already seen fanboys and Bisu haters come up with,well,Flash was sick,he didn't practice. Now let me ask. How much did Bisu practice when he had two games today before that? Simply the better player won. Perhaps Flash deserves no2 on the next PR,idk. It's hard to call tho. Stork does not deserve to be no2,but Flash doesn't deserve to be above Stork because he lost to him,and that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Perhaps put Bisu on the first 2 places


Jaeeeeeeeedooooong , jk

however + Show Spoiler [GSL] +

bisu won :D, but that HUGE mistake in the last game when he stasis'd his own shuttles with the HighTemplars in them, omg, I thought he might still lose the game right there :s
Boxer: " Lee Jae Dong is the best player. He`s all about the micro; he`s the player which has the most amazing control"
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
January 04 2009 12:46 GMT
#597
On January 04 2009 09:23 baubo wrote:
Creativity is overrated, IMO. Flash no longer has creativity(he used to). Stork for a long time gathered silvers without creativity. Once you succeed by playing a certain style, usually you don't deviate unless you are naturally creative, like Kal or FBH.

The problem with Leta is that he's shown a conservative style that's of LOWER quality than the top players. I happened to have seen both his game against Jangbi and against Best. Both players just crushed him. It's what happens when a conservative player plays a better player.


Yep. There's a huge difference between Leta's play and Flash's.

However, I think it's correct to say that there aren't currently 10 people who qualify as 'better' players right now. Leta's level of play isn't the top, but it's pretty good and incredibly consistant.
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-04 12:54:38
January 04 2009 12:53 GMT
#598
On January 04 2009 03:23 Elyvilon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2009 03:22 AnOth3rDAy wrote:
On January 04 2009 02:32 Elyvilon wrote:
On January 04 2009 01:46 TarsTarkas wrote:
I think that the problem with Leta's play style is that in a Starleague, in a series, many people think it won't do him much good. He waits for people to make mistakes, and this often happens - especially in pro league. But in a starleague this probably wont work out so well. I bet BeSt was waiting for July to make a mistake too -_-

I've seen a lot of people say this, but I'm not sure what it means. What makes Leta someone that waits for mistakes?


it means, usually progamers makes a few mistakes. Leta usually doesn't so he usually wins.
I get that much, but how does that make him different from the other top players?


The problem lies in the fact that Leta's play, while exceedingly safe and very consistant, isn't 'top level'. There's nothing extraordinary about Leta's games besides the fact that he is very careful and really doesn't fuck up. That's great for ProLeague, but imagine Leta in a bo5 against Jangbi? Or Bisu? Jaedong? These players require a little more than adequacy.

Leta's TvZ stats are a little misleading given how god-awful every zerg besides Jaedong has played in the last three months. His TvT is the real deal, because his slow and methodical approach is by far the strongest mentality in that matchup. His other two matchups are what you could call 'good enough', if that makes sense. There's nothing special besides the fact that he can play at the same level day in and day out, which some other players seem to struggle with (cough cough).
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
January 04 2009 14:44 GMT
#599
+ Show Spoiler +
OMG what a series that was! When bisu statised his own shuttles i was, HOW THE FUCK COULD YOU SCREW UP THIS AWESOME SERIES LIKE THIS!! Than Bisu's insane multitask and harass skill granted to him the comeback. Seriously, he was in soo deep shit, he was behind in unit counts, and the push reached his natural, 2 of his expos were under siege. And he made it. God dammit, that guy is good. Put him on the first 2 places (or give the second place to someone who beat him :D)
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-04 15:33:02
January 04 2009 15:31 GMT
#600
On January 04 2009 23:44 Geo.Rion wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
OMG what a series that was! When bisu statised his own shuttles i was, HOW THE FUCK COULD YOU SCREW UP THIS AWESOME SERIES LIKE THIS!! Than Bisu's insane multitask and harass skill granted to him the comeback. Seriously, he was in soo deep shit, he was behind in unit counts, and the push reached his natural, 2 of his expos were under siege. And he made it. God dammit, that guy is good. Put him on the first 2 places (or give the second place to someone who beat him :D)


+ Show Spoiler +
Bisu was not behind at that moment. Flash needed some sort of miracle to take down all bisus expantions while bisu could macro from all his gateways. Since he was almost out of scans and no vessels he could not fight vs both arbiters and dark templars.


frankly im abit sick of all these spoilers in this thread, only an idiot would read the thread if he hadn't seen the matches and didn't want anything to get spoiled imo.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
Prev 1 28 29 30 31 32 46 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
IPSL
17:00
Ro16 Group D
ZZZero vs rasowy
Napoleon vs KameZerg
Liquipedia
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
15:55
FSL teamleague CNvsASH, ASHvRR
Freeedom29
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 280
ROOTCatZ 102
mcanning 76
IndyStarCraft 68
MindelVK 33
BRAT_OK 28
EmSc Tv 9
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 31332
Calm 3085
Shuttle 630
Stork 394
firebathero 287
Dewaltoss 109
Leta 80
Barracks 76
Mong 57
Rock 43
[ Show more ]
Shine 20
Movie 12
zelot 12
Oystein4
Dota 2
Gorgc5706
qojqva1865
Dendi810
XcaliburYe106
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
ScreaM941
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor432
Liquid`Hasu202
Other Games
Beastyqt453
DeMusliM447
Lowko221
Hui .209
Fuzer 200
Trikslyr43
CadenZie18
febbydoto7
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream10104
Other Games
EGCTV596
StarCraft 2
angryscii 20
EmSc Tv 9
EmSc2Tv 9
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HappyZerGling 51
• HeavenSC 38
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Airneanach35
• Michael_bg 7
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• HerbMon 0
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1754
• Ler60
League of Legends
• Nemesis3069
Other Games
• imaqtpie772
• WagamamaTV366
• Shiphtur272
Upcoming Events
OSC
1h 28m
BSL 21
2h 28m
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
16h 28m
RSL Revival
16h 28m
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
18h 28m
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs TBD
WardiTV Korean Royale
18h 28m
BSL 21
1d 2h
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
IPSL
1d 2h
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
1d 5h
Wardi Open
1d 18h
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 23h
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
BSL: GosuLeague
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
BSL: GosuLeague
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
IPSL
6 days
Julia vs Artosis
JDConan vs DragOn
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-14
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.