EPTOn June 06 2008 11:33 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Light is TERRIBLE.
Light is TERRIBLE.
so nice to hear you say that
Power Rank 06/06/2008 - Page 4
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
so nice to hear you say that | ||
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H
New Zealand6138 Posts
On June 06 2008 12:30 Gregsen wrote: I so don't care about the other ranks, but NaDa #7 absolutly made my day. Truth. ILU Steve | ||
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Jimtudor
Canada259 Posts
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Februarys
Korea (South)259 Posts
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QibingZero
2611 Posts
On June 06 2008 11:59 IdrA wrote: gimmicky as hell is good for protoss steve stork obviously has about 10x the mechanics of lucifer, but stork plays predictably while lucifer plays like a foreign toss. guess whos winning more games atm. Exactly, you'd think people would learn this from watching Kang Min all these years! Is anyone surprised that Lucifer seems to be his protege with that style of play? If anything, Lucifer seems to be the protoss with the most potential. We have how many P's playing like they're gods right now? Only one of them really stands out from the rest in more than a 'I can win a little bit more than you' fashion, and it's Lucifer. It's not coincidence he's still alive in a league right now while Pure hasn't been through into any league in his longer pro career. I doubt he'll beat Jaedong, because I don't think anyone is beating Jaedong in this MSL, but I seriously don't see how people can bash his play. I think Flash's early wins were more gimmicky than Lucifer's, honestly, and look where he's at. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
A style like Lucifer's generally becomes a slippery slope because once you've started winning through creativity rather than sheer skills you can sometimes lose the drive to improve your mechanics, or worse, feel obliged to continue playing that way in order to meet the expectations of the audience. I would loooove to see Lucifer all-round massively buff up his game sense and macro and combine that with his creativity to become a boxeresque type of player. Until then, I will continue to cheer for him because he's fun to watch both during his matches and after he wins. The power rank though, is certainly not about the player who can dish out the most entertainment. | ||
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dinmsab
Malaysia2246 Posts
Still good writeup, I couldn't have done a better job myself so I should just stfu now. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On June 06 2008 16:50 dinmsab wrote: Mind needs to be higher, Nada shouldn't be there. The past 10 games Nada won 4, thats kinda ok.. Stork won 5 games out of the past 10 he played. I know people hate stork, but imho he deserves a spot up in the list especially if you can put someone like Nada up there. Just for comparison FBH made 7 victories out of the past 10 games he played and he's still not on the list, using the excuse FBH has a retarded TvP isnt valid considering Nada lost 4 times to terran players which proves his current TvT is bad too. Still good writeup, I couldn't have done a better job myself so I should just stfu now. I think the idea is to look at the quality of the games as much or even more than the result of the games. NaDa looked impressive even during games he lost (i.e. vs Best). Mind is a strong player but he just chokes randomly against players we all know he can beat, for some reason; it's not even about a slump because the next minute he'll just come roaring back to beat Jaedong and Best. That kind of inconsistency will nail him a high ranking when he does well, and a low ranking when he does poorly, and he did quite poorly overall this month. Yes he is a strong player, but his games don't match up with his skills. Besides, we can't just evaluate players based on their full potential, otherwise Bisu would be on this PR according to that one game versus Mind. | ||
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JoxxOr
Sweden1502 Posts
YESSS Thank you fakesteve  ! | ||
disciple
9071 Posts
1. Putting Mind in the bottom of the table. (Mind sux nowadays) 2. Not putting Lucifer in the PR (enough of KTF fanboysm) and ofc 3. BEST FOR #3 SPOT | ||
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EvoChamber
France2505 Posts
The spots from 6-8 could be shuffled without anyone complaining, but the current arrangement is pretty good. I was going to argue that Mind and Much should switch places, but then I remembered who's still in the leagues and who isn't. Even so, if I had to choose one of those two to play Best or Jaedong, it'd have to be Mind. Even if he's out for this season, he's fixed up his TvZ, which will pay off far more in the future. | ||
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Metallingus
Philippines468 Posts
On June 06 2008 16:16 Juicyfruit wrote: I agree with IdrA, but I also want to add that it might be too early to tell. A style like Lucifer's generally becomes a slippery slope because once you've started winning through creativity rather than sheer skills you can sometimes lose the drive to improve your mechanics, or worse, feel obliged to continue playing that way in order to meet the expectations of the audience. In short, Lucifer could end up becoming the next Upmagic =( NaDa at #7 is all good though. LYY fighting! | ||
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Fwmeh
1286 Posts
And just like that, Nada is gone. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On June 06 2008 16:16 Juicyfruit wrote: I agree with IdrA, but I also want to add that it might be too early to tell. A style like Lucifer's generally becomes a slippery slope because once you've started winning through creativity rather than sheer skills you can sometimes lose the drive to improve your mechanics, or worse, feel obliged to continue playing that way in order to meet the expectations of the audience. I would loooove to see Lucifer all-round massively buff up his game sense and macro and combine that with his creativity to become a boxeresque type of player. Until then, I will continue to cheer for him because he's fun to watch both during his matches and after he wins. The power rank though, is certainly not about the player who can dish out the most entertainment. What evidence is that based on? Y'know, back in the day, Nal_ra had like 140 apm and wasn't particularly known for micro. I actually thought his control was somewhat sloppy the first time I ever saw him play (was it 2001? 2002? It was reps of Ra vs Boxer on Snowbound I think). Definitely if you made a comparison, Kingdom and Reach had better mechanics. Yet, Ra became the most accomplished of those 3. Is Lucifer Ra? No, and I don't think he'll climb all the way to the top like Best. However, I think we can expect good things out of him, possibly as far as Ro4 (probably NEXT season since I doubt JD will lose). 32 man tournaments just do not favor gimmicky type players, who need to display a few too many of their tricks early on. In the past, creative Protoss players have done just as well as mechanically driven Protoss players. Regarding Best, a prediction: he will win OSL. I was already thinking this last PR, that he would win it and I should have made my "bold prediction" then, but I chickened out because he did not look quite so unbeatable and he still has not truly proven himself vs Zerg. | ||
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Metallingus
Philippines468 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Yeah =/ There goes the renaissance. | ||
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FaCE_1
Canada6185 Posts
Dam I so want him to beat Flash in the MSL !! ... even tough Flash in a real nice player to watch :\ Go Lux Go :D | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On June 06 2008 19:22 Mortality wrote: What evidence is that based on? Y'know, back in the day, Nal_ra had like 140 apm and wasn't particularly known for micro. I actually thought his control was somewhat sloppy the first time I ever saw him play (was it 2001? 2002? It was reps of Ra vs Boxer on Snowbound I think). Definitely if you made a comparison, Kingdom and Reach had better mechanics. Yet, Ra became the most accomplished of those 3. Is Lucifer Ra? No, and I don't think he'll climb all the way to the top like Best. However, I think we can expect good things out of him, possibly as far as Ro4 (probably NEXT season since I doubt JD will lose). 32 man tournaments just do not favor gimmicky type players, who need to display a few too many of their tricks early on. In the past, creative Protoss players have done just as well as mechanically driven Protoss players. Regarding Best, a prediction: he will win OSL. I was already thinking this last PR, that he would win it and I should have made my "bold prediction" then, but I chickened out because he did not look quite so unbeatable and he still has not truly proven himself vs Zerg. Replace the word "generally" with the word "potentially". It was badly put, I admit. Actually, I just don't have evidence on hand due to my lack of knowledge of old players, but there are probably some. What I said wasn't that insensible. I think that's what you were on about, since the rest was just my opinion. Also, I'm not sure but doesn't the evolution of starcraft ultimately disfavor creativity? Mechanics build upon itself from one generation to another, and therefore players in general have better mechanics than before simply more efficient methods of micro/macro/BO etc have been discovered over the years. Creativity, on the other hand, doesn't benefit from the same progression. Creativity makes your playstyle unpredictable. Plus, if you are well-known for being creative, it might make your opponents paranoid and thus give you an extra edge. However, you still need the proper mechanics to 1) carry out your creative play properly 2) to actually be able to take down your opponent after acquiring whatever advantage gained from your creative play. Afaik, Lucifer's mechanics aren't horrible, they just aren't stellar. Therefore, his creativity can help him win consistently against opponents of similar mechanics because he gains that edge over them. I do agree with you that creativity is as much a part of a player's strength as their mechanics. Creativity can translate into results, and I would hate it to be shrugged off completely in such that players are ranked entirely based on their mechanics only. | ||
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ThePhan2m
Norway2751 Posts
And Much, seriously? You will see next month, next step in every league and proleague that Much will play worse than the newcommers like Lucifer and Pure. He has never shown any kind of intresting games, just boring dull and failed ever since his name became known. I despise the fact that you are a fanboy of both Sea and Much, place them high on PR after couple of games where you see hope again, get real! The fact is that they fail over and over again! Seas placement on PR last month was just silly. And the fact that he is out now, shows how horrible he is! Much will be gone as fast as he entered. Unless these two acomplish anything or stay stable, i wont give them the least credit. But your not hesitating jumping them up from nowhere to a high PR spot. Tho I however was suprised to see Hwasin on 4th, he has shown some strenght, deserved PR, yes! but 4th? LOL! But still Nada, Hwasin and Much cannot really be placed this high, unless they have played vs stronger opponents like the top 4 (Flash, Best, Jaedong and Mind) Win counts doesnt matter, however vs who and how does matter! I dont get it! They played vs crappy opponents, lost vs the better players, even vs newcommers like Lucifer should be placed above these on PR. Get Lucifer IN! Lomo IN! Mind higher! Rest, whatever! To many ppl hold on to old players lost skillz and dont realize that the future belongs to the rising stars! | ||
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