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On June 06 2008 20:18 ThePhan2m wrote:
Ok, first off, You place Mind THAT low?? Oo He is without doubt better than both Hwasin and Nada, cuz these two cant even come close to Flash, while Mind rampage around in endless battles with flash. Do you have some kind of hatered towards Mind? I mean, I know he has been loosing couple of games, but to put Nada and Hwasin above him? Just dont see them winning against Mind yet, so i completly disagree with that one. Just look at Minds wins over Jaedong, you keep Jaedong (who played vs easy opponents all month) and then ditch Mind and place him 8th??(who btw lost 3 times vs Flash during the last month)
And Much, seriously? You will see next month, next step in every league and proleague that Much will play worse than the newcommers like Lucifer and Pure. He has never shown any kind of intresting games, just boring dull and failed ever since his name became known. I despise the fact that you are a fanboy of both Sea and Much, place them high on PR after couple of games where you see hope again, get real! The fact is that they fail over and over again! Seas placement on PR last month was just silly. And the fact that he is out now, shows how horrible he is! Much will be gone as fast as he entered. Unless these two acomplish anything or stay stable, i wont give them the least credit. But your not hesitating jumping them up from nowhere to a high PR spot.
Tho I however was suprised to see Hwasin on 4th, he has shown some strenght, deserved PR, yes! but 4th? LOL! But still Nada, Hwasin and Much cannot really be placed this high, unless they have played vs stronger opponents like the top 4 (Flash, Best, Jaedong and Mind) Win counts doesnt matter, however vs who and how does matter! I dont get it! They played vs crappy opponents, lost vs the better players, even vs newcommers like Lucifer should be placed above these on PR. Get Lucifer IN! Lomo IN! Mind higher! Rest, whatever! To many ppl hold on to old players lost skillz and dont realize that the future belongs to the rising stars!
Seems pretty solid argument to me. Overall the PR wasn't too bad this month, but Mind so low and Hwasin and Nada so high seems wrong to me
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Nada in the power rank, holy shit!
Also, <3 Flash
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On June 07 2008 05:09 Darkmole wrote:
o wow so many people calling this PR bs 0_0
i just disagree with 4 players on PR thats it, but im not calling this PR bs
If you look more carefully, not so many people are just saying "this PR is BS." Fakesteve clearly did his HW. A lot of us are arguing points about specific players.
But, a lot of this is also calling into question what it means to be on PR. Is it enough to just do well in majors and suck elsewhere? Is losing 1-2 but making your opponents play amazing well (like Nada and Mind) worth more or less than winning 2-1 with sloppy games? How do we compare stats to individual performances? How do we extrapolate for players who dominate easy rosters (Pure, Luxury) versus players who go even against the hardest rosters known to man (Mind)? How do we rate totally unproven players who storm onto the scene (Lucifer, Pure)?
A lot of this is subjective and there really aren't any answers that everyone will agree with.
In my mind, PR means this: if every progamer played every other progamer in a bo5 with everything on the line ->right now<-, who would the top 10 performers be? That's my notion of the best. Steve seems to be trying more to do "who is going the furthest right now?" These philosophies will produce similar lists because the best players will go the furthest, but are fundamentally different in organization.
I favor consistency and so longer term statistics tend to play a role in my decision making process. I also judge by consistency of the invidivual games. A player who wins 50% and rapes when he wins and pushes his opponent hard when he loses is better than a player who wins 60% and struggles to win against good opponents and often gets raped when he loses. I do favor major leagues because more is at stake in those games, more practice is done for those games, and also you get PL-only phenomenon where youngsters not in leagues will practice hard for their matches and do well or a team will form a battery where players are assigned 1-2 maps and they consistently pull home wins just on those maps. That's why I haven't jumped all-in for 815 since he needs to play more games that aren't on Blue Storm or Katrina before I can judge him. While I favor majors greatly, a player who fails to deliver in PL is also a no-no since it calls into question the player's absolute skill.
Steve's way of looking at things is different in that he cares most about winning the games that matter. You can afford to look like shit on occasion so long as you deliver in the games most important to you. That's probably a large part of why Lucifer was not given the nod - JD raped him so hard it wasn't funny and that was by far Lucifer's most important game. Pulling a cheese over Nada to get there doesn't give Steve the impression that Lucifer could have delivered in a drawn out series. I disagree with that since I think Lucifer has been showing a tremendous ability to always come up with a good plan to win the game and getting raped once by JD doesn't change that. Much also gets rated highly because even if luck was undeniably on his side, he's managed to pull through in 6 of his 9 most important games. I, however, have been looking at Much's luck factor and shakiness and asking, "Is this the really the same Much that looked so impressive in the past?" The only reason Steve rated Mind and Nada was because of the difficulty of their opponents. The reason I rated them is because they've looked capable of throwing down with basically anyone.
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Lomo should not be on the PR. He is good vs Z and good vs T but he sucks ass vs P. He was lucky enough to get lots of T and Z opponents lately, but as soon as he faces a halfway decent toss, he will get buttraped from here to the moon.
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The purpose of these ranks are also to start discussions. So even if i dont agree on all points its very nice to have it!
imo Mind is better than both hwasin and nada
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CA10829 Posts
On June 07 2008 05:28 ScarFace wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2008 23:45 Barbarne wrote:On June 06 2008 19:22 Fwmeh wrote:+ Show Spoiler + And just like that, Nada is gone. Thanks a lot you imbecile! You couldn't possibly mention what you're spoiling? Please say that it's the Tiebreakers you're talking about next time. Now I'm pissed, not at the result but the fact that the games are ruined. Are you fucking stupid? Dont look at the fucking spoiler if your not prepared to have something spoiled. God damn idiot.
no, you are being the stupid one.
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
On June 07 2008 09:45 LosingID8 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2008 05:28 ScarFace wrote:On June 06 2008 23:45 Barbarne wrote:On June 06 2008 19:22 Fwmeh wrote:+ Show Spoiler + And just like that, Nada is gone. Thanks a lot you imbecile! You couldn't possibly mention what you're spoiling? Please say that it's the Tiebreakers you're talking about next time. Now I'm pissed, not at the result but the fact that the games are ruined. Are you fucking stupid? Dont look at the fucking spoiler if your not prepared to have something spoiled. God damn idiot. no, you are being the stupid one. Enough of this.
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I think Mind should be over Nada. The rest seems fine.
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I meant to mention this earlier, but Im really glad pure got a spot
he deserved it
I remember jangbi being absolutely dominant last month, but his stats dont show it
hmmm
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On June 07 2008 14:21 fusionsdf wrote:
I meant to mention this earlier, but Im really glad pure got a spot
he deserved it
I remember jangbi being absolutely dominant last month, but his stats dont show it
hmmm
He actually has a pretty good proleague record. I think he deserves a spot for sure. I think Steve just overlooked him. Might want to edit the CBNC section and include him, he definitly desrves that.
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replace #7 with jangbi, after that OSL tiebreak matches it just proves how Nada is no way near the level of jangbi or even the current stork.. he had to only practise 1 matchup, but he still lost regardless. Jangbi definitely outperforms Nada in both results and performance, he deserves that spot imho.
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Oh come on. On Andromeda? That map is like 70% for PvT. And what do you mean "even the current stork?" Did you see Stork v Jangbi, the first game?
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Great power rank. Pretty much exactly what I would do.
Would've liked to see Lomo on there though.
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CA10829 Posts
On June 07 2008 13:17 Carnac wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2008 09:45 LosingID8 wrote:On June 07 2008 05:28 ScarFace wrote:On June 06 2008 23:45 Barbarne wrote:On June 06 2008 19:22 Fwmeh wrote:+ Show Spoiler + And just like that, Nada is gone. Thanks a lot you imbecile! You couldn't possibly mention what you're spoiling? Please say that it's the Tiebreakers you're talking about next time. Now I'm pissed, not at the result but the fact that the games are ruined. Are you fucking stupid? Dont look at the fucking spoiler if your not prepared to have something spoiled. God damn idiot. no, you are being the stupid one. Enough of this.
yessir
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On June 06 2008 20:18 ThePhan2m wrote:
Ok, first off, You place Mind THAT low?? Oo He is without doubt better than both Hwasin and Nada, cuz these two cant even come close to Flash, while Mind rampage around in endless battles with flash. Do you have some kind of hatered towards Mind? I mean, I know he has been loosing couple of games, but to put Nada and Hwasin above him? Just dont see them winning against Mind yet, so i completly disagree with that one. Just look at Minds wins over Jaedong, you keep Jaedong (who played vs easy opponents all month) and then ditch Mind and place him 8th??(who btw lost 3 times vs Flash during the last month)
And Much, seriously? You will see next month, next step in every league and proleague that Much will play worse than the newcommers like Lucifer and Pure. He has never shown any kind of intresting games, just boring dull and failed ever since his name became known. I despise the fact that you are a fanboy of both Sea and Much, place them high on PR after couple of games where you see hope again, get real! The fact is that they fail over and over again! Seas placement on PR last month was just silly. And the fact that he is out now, shows how horrible he is! Much will be gone as fast as he entered. Unless these two acomplish anything or stay stable, i wont give them the least credit. But your not hesitating jumping them up from nowhere to a high PR spot.
Tho I however was suprised to see Hwasin on 4th, he has shown some strenght, deserved PR, yes! but 4th? LOL! But still Nada, Hwasin and Much cannot really be placed this high, unless they have played vs stronger opponents like the top 4 (Flash, Best, Jaedong and Mind) Win counts doesnt matter, however vs who and how does matter! I dont get it! They played vs crappy opponents, lost vs the better players, even vs newcommers like Lucifer should be placed above these on PR. Get Lucifer IN! Lomo IN! Mind higher! Rest, whatever! To many ppl hold on to old players lost skillz and dont realize that the future belongs to the rising stars!
Well if Mind beat Much maybe he would be higher but because he couldn't , he is this low . He will be playing only proleague now because he failed in both OSL MSL and GSI .This is actually good for Wemade having Mind and Pure practiseing only for PL , we could see Wemade win the PL .
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I dont like to admit it but Best deserves #2 more than Jaedong.
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On June 07 2008 03:49 TheTyranid wrote:
Nada is out of the MSL, gets knocked out of the OSL by Jangbi and is on a five game loosing streak but somehow gets 7'th place over Mind and Luxury while Jangbi gets CNBC.
With all due respect, this rank is BS.
He got knocked out of the MSL and OSL after this PR was made , there Nada was looking good in both leagues , and JangBI was death in MSL and almost death depending on Stork in OSL so why should JangBI be here and Nada not , after Nada killed him in OSL he lost to him in the tiebreaker witch was after the PR was made so your comment are stupid , and Luxury is still in OSL and Mind will be playing only proleague for now on . So MSL/OSL>Proleague next month if luxury dies he will be removed .
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On June 07 2008 19:41 amorpheus wrote:
I dont like to admit it but Best deserves #2 more than Jaedong.
Why ? Can he beat him or does he have more chances them him to win starleague ?
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On June 07 2008 16:28 dinmsab wrote:
replace #7 with jangbi, after that OSL tiebreak matches it just proves how Nada is no way near the level of jangbi or even the current stork.. he had to only practise 1 matchup, but he still lost regardless. Jangbi definitely outperforms Nada in both results and performance, he deserves that spot imho.
Did Nada even play vs Stork in the tiebreaker???
IIRC, it ended with Jangbi > Stork, Jangbi > Nada.
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EPT
