Reach – Despite your somewhat-impressive Starleague run, you’re still only 8-8 since April. As my friends typically say when we chug beer, “MAN UP.”
July – After going 18-8 to start off 2007, you went 0-3 against GoRush. That’s just not going to cut it.
Nal_Ra – I… I’m just so happy right now; I don’t know what to say.
Free – You’re 20-13 in 2007—and your talent is undeniable—but you’ve got to clean up your PvT (don’t quote me your Proleague record; it’s still sloppy) and make a Starleague before I seriously consider you for the Power Rank.
Midas – Your Proleague play has picked up as of late, but you’re still not Power Rank material.
Damn! I was writing comment about luck and stuff for last PR when you posted new >.<
My odds there were Bisu, Iris, FBH, sAviOr, Stork and I agree with your write-up about luck, but I don't think Stork's PvZ allows him such a high place ;P
Well it's easy when you wait for all the decisive matchups.
I'd notch FBH below Savior, GGPlay over Flash, and maybe replace Sea with July (but I like the fat man).
Also: agreed about Nal_rA. I was so happy to see him get knocked out and then not get back in on the wildcard. I hate, haaaatteee, hate watching him. ~_~
Wow, Savior really did cast a massive shadow over progaming. Bisu, Iris and FBH are most known for beating him (and Stork wins Savior by proxy by beating FBH), and so they get the top slots. It's almost like Savior is the bar to which all other gamers are compared. If you can play straight up and beat him or someone that has beaten him, you get notice and respect. If you haven't beaten him or someone that can (or cheese to win), it doesn't matter how great your results are, you get a review like Flash's "I know he has some skill, but Flash isn't making it easy for me to figure out just how much."
I pretty much agree on the enitre PR this month o.O amazing I know :-) That would be my Top-6 for sure, in that exact same order. Flash for 7th is a tough call as you wrote as well, I just can't find myself thinking of him as a strong player, well not 'solid' anyway, he's too much.. Flash :-) I'd rank him below GGPlay but it really doesn't matter.
imo you can definitely add some words in 'close but no cigar' (lets call its CBNC) or even just some kind of side notes, about players that were in PR not long ago, but now dissapeared and aren't even in CBNC, like Light[Alive], iloveOov, Much[gm], or whoever was there and is now nowhere. And I dislike your disliking of Nal_Ra, every month the same... its not funny.
In my mind, Free > Sea, he's just more impressive, I think he's going to shock everyone next season. Sea had all sorts of opportunities, vs XellOs at Wildcard, and that 0-2 vs GoRush.. But Sea for 10th is fine. Others that will destroy everyone next season and should have been perhaphs mentioned in CBNC include: Jaedong (Proleague is one thing, but his Star Challenge group is another plus), Luxury, UpMagiC I guess, and Chalrenge if he can find some focus... I'd consider fOrGG and Anytime, I think Lecaf players will show some sparks next individual season. I'm happy you mentioned Midas, there's some possitive changes in his play, he may really comeback stronger next season :-) Oov should have been mentioned for sure.. but you'd only say mean things so forget about it -_- I'd mention XellOs just for showing some nice games, even in the wildcard group (and then some terrible ones, but I forgive him) so I'd say "XellOs thanks for showing up and fading out again"
So good job, I'd prefer it on the 1st, even before GoRush vs July, absolutely before Stork-FBH-Iris, it would make things completely heat up in the PR discussion :-) You went for the ultra safe way by waiting so long, but it won't be that entertaining in here until finals, and even then... Lets just say I'd much prefer massive changes after the entire semi-finals rounds, into next month. Well anyway, nice PR. I'm only writing what I think each PR to bring about some ideas, some criticism, after all this is sort of a 1-man opinion that kind of ?suppose to? represent the opinion of many others in here, or it wouldn't be linked in the main page. So that being said, you shouldn't take things to heart, as I'm sure you don't, but just making sure :-)
"Even with his loss to Stork in one of the uglier Bo5s I’ve ever seen" 100% agree, that Bo5 was a disgrace to progaming, Bisu should have been given the MSL title right then and there by default, for them having played such a terrible semifinals. Koreans that actually paid to watch the games should get a refund.
On July 06 2007 08:18 Plexa wrote: Interesting given recent results; im quite surprised to be honest + Show Spoiler +
IMO iris should be number 2 given the beating he just gave stork, and GGplay a tad higher.. but that is all
Stork got in 2 semifinals....i think he deserves Iris not even qualify in a 32 players competition
Qualifying for both starleagues isn't necessarly that overpowering when you compare a 1 Starleague player with a 2 Starleague player. Infact playing on both Starleagues seems to be the downfall of many great players, I have no special sympathy for players like Hwasin and sAviOr, that have to get ready for several different matchups. And its also luck based, some players just fall in dual style groups with some tough luck, there's nothing to do about it, example if you're a Zerg and you get Monty Hall on a dual style group, your chances are already shit, not all progamers can qualify for both Starleagues every time. I think we're just used to seeing specific names in both leagues, but its due to seeds and Star Challenge, or Survivor League, well some of them haven't seen offline qualifiers in ages. Lets see how sAviOr doesn in ODT next season :-) Anyway point is, I wouldn't say Stork has such a huge advantage over Iris mainly because of 2 Starleague, but I think its more due to his *amazing Proleague performances.
Yeah. but it kind of annoys me that both those semis are pretty bad, I mean, not fun to watch, almost lame :/ The one thing is common is Stork. Compare to last season, sAviOr in both semis, both were a spectacle of epic proportions... Last two days of semis Bo5, just weren't worthy. Nothing to look back on and smile, actually nothing to look back on at all. But of course you're right, making it to both semi-finlas is an amazing achievement :-) I'd rank Stork above Iris anyway, for this month.
it's interesting to have a period where no one is ultra dominant anymore, though I think the 'who can beat BestPlayerOftheTime' angle makes for better entertainment in progaming overall.
Stork deserves #1 more than Bisu imo Bisu got killed by a cheese build to get knocked off of OSL 2-0 it shouldn't matter that stork has a bad pvz, stork has better results this month than bisu
On July 06 2007 08:33 IntoTheWow wrote: FUCK ETTER
My, just look at the time, isn't it getting... what... OLD?
I have to say I liked the write-up. Yep, I did. Especially the main part, where you address the actual readers and not uh... people who don't even know about you :/
A little addition: I'd definitely keep people like Flash closer to the top3 tho. Granted, he hasn't proved EVERYTHING (because that's pretty much what all the people denying his every single win are building their criticism upon), but he's proved a LOT, and - unlike sAviOr or FBH, or even GoRush - he and GGPlay still have a shot at the OSL title (granted, GGPlay will lose his after next Friday).
Would probably make more sense for someone higher than 7 or 8 to win the OSL trophy, usually... While we won't hear much from sAviOr, Gorush or FBH outside of the PL for a while.
i have remove savior right off the list. no point in having a zerg player who cant beat a turtle terran.
On July 06 2007 09:14 Pressure wrote: Stork deserves #1 more than Bisu imo Bisu got killed by a cheese build to get knocked off of OSL 2-0 it shouldn't matter that stork has a bad pvz, stork has better results this month than bisu
stork does not deserve number one - hell, while i think he should probably be number two, you can even make a good case for Iris at number two considering how dominant he is in his non-preferred matchups
On July 06 2007 09:14 Pressure wrote: Stork deserves #1 more than Bisu imo Bisu got killed by a cheese build to get knocked off of OSL 2-0 it shouldn't matter that stork has a bad pvz, stork has better results this month than bisu
Stork got hammered by both savior and Iris. Stork is hot at the moment, but nothing special. Stork will not dominate the leagues like Oov or Savior did. Bisu on the other hand might do just that, he certainly has the potential.
On July 06 2007 09:14 Pressure wrote: Stork deserves #1 more than Bisu imo Bisu got killed by a cheese build to get knocked off of OSL 2-0 it shouldn't matter that stork has a bad pvz, stork has better results this month than bisu
Stork got hammered by both savior and Iris. Stork is hot at the moment, but nothing special. Stork will not dominate the leagues like Oov or Savior did. Bisu on the other hand might do just that, he certainly has the potential.
Agreed. I don't think Stork will even win a major League. He just doesn't look like a champion. Call this a bold prediction, but that's how I see it.
Flash on the other hand seems like the next guy to dominate a'la NaDa, oov, sAviOr, or maybe Bisu?
Sad to see savior that low, hope being out of both starleagues relieves some pressure from him so he can practice back up to being the best again... to be honest, I think that this is all bisus fault Getting steamrolled so often must have been hard on his confidence, probably resulting in alot of practice against Protoss, since he probably saw Bisu as his biggest rival, only to lose against terrans before he even had a chance to meet him... Im just speculating ofc.
Nice ranking, although I would switch Sea with Nal_rA, and I wouldnt even like to have hwasin in the t10 cause I hate him, but hey... doesnt seem like theres many players to choose from these days
Btw, has Iris changed his nickname to "Berserker" ? If so, ROFL @ him.
i would've wanted ggplay to be higher, but i had no idea his proleague record was that bad. as for the posters rooting for flash: despite his insane tvp record, keep in mind that he is still relatively unproven in the other two matchups. i'd expect that his semis against ggplay would be a good test of his tvz (although he looked really wobbly against savior in the pl). as for now, this month's pr is pretty accurate where it stands.
and how the hell did iris suddenly put out significantly better tvz and tvp?!
On July 06 2007 12:12 InRaged wrote: after WWI sAviOr said he doesn't consider Bisu as "his rival".
can you quote the source? i would think that someone who has molested him in the msl finals, race war superfight, and wwi would at least be deemed a worthy opponent. -_-
On July 06 2007 12:12 InRaged wrote: after WWI sAviOr said he doesn't consider Bisu as "his rival".
can you quote the source? i would think that someone who has molested him in the msl finals, race war superfight, and wwi would at least be deemed a worthy opponent. -_-
oh noes. There was no interview with sAviOr, and it was Bisu who said so ^^;; "I don't think I am yet at that level to be called that. Plus I could lose in the future against him. I think as outcomes of our matches change, the term "greatest rival" will disappear." But I won't be surprised if Ma Jae Yoon shares this opinion. He is evil and cold afterall ;P
I'm really sad to see Stork faulter against Iris. I have so much confidence in the guy, but I guess it's tough having so much going on at once. He didn't look himself last night, but that may also be due to the fact that Iris was taking him apart. As a long time Iris hater, I'm really impressed with the guy and can't deny that he deserves everything he's gotten in this OSL. It would be a crime for someone to steal the title from him now. There are no players left that pose half the threat of the guys he's beaten.
As for all this bullshit about Stork "not being championship material", you jokers obviously have never seen him PvP. He's the only player in the world that is visably better than everyone else in that matchup. Luck factor or not, he's the best PvP in the world and he'll prove it when he beats Bisu. I'm very confident in this kid. He'll show you all.
On July 06 2007 08:18 Plexa wrote: Interesting given recent results; im quite surprised to be honest + Show Spoiler +
IMO iris should be number 2 given the beating he just gave stork, and GGplay a tad higher.. but that is all
Stork got in 2 semifinals....i think he deserves Iris not even qualify in a 32 players competition
Stork got into one by luck. Remember him being eliminated?
Savior pretty much thrashed him, and so did Iris. I believe that 1-5 should be Iris Bisu Stork Savior FBH
Has Bisu played anyone on the top 5? Who was in his group?
I really don't think he deserves the #1 spot, he pretty much won vs Hwasin with luck, he said so himself, and he got humiliated by Flash twice in a row. Iris however beat Savior, AND gave Stork a thrashing, which is more impressive imho than Bisu's recent record. Before last night, Stork would have been an easy #1 choice for me, but Iris has really shown in the past week that he can TvZ (already known since last year OSL Semis) and TvP. Before this I think he really was unproven.
My bets are on Iris to take OSL, and Stork to take MSL.
Hwasin was Bisu's "insurance policy" if he couldn't beat Nada. He was in the top 5 in the PR at the time. Aside from that... only other players he's really played of note are GoRush and Light (barring proleague, which I haven't kept up with terribly well).
Anywho, I'd wait a bit on Iris, even if he does seem like a favorite to win OSL at this point. Bisu may have faltered against Flash, but it was a bo3. He barely scratched by Hwasin, but he's still Bisu. If Stork hadn't gotten knocked out by Iris, he probably would have been a shoe in for #1. Even if Iris is playing extremely well right now, he hasn't won OSL yet. Plenty of time to stuff it up.
Hopefully he doesn't, I want to see a good series. -_-
pretty nice power ranking imo and its indeed fucking amazing that iris beat the best zerg and the 1st or 2nd best toss around .. and if u recall iris's TvT was brilliant and he wouldnt lose to any t except nada.. so well.. just sick ^^
6/29 OSL Ro8 Week 2 vs Bisu WIN (Monty Hall) 7/1 Proleague vs Lecaf Oz vs Jaedong WIN (Python) 7/4 Proleague vs STX Soul vs Hwasin LOSS (Sin Peaks of Baekdu)
On July 06 2007 16:38 boghat wrote: I have no complaints with this PR, I pretty much agree 100%. The only thing is Flash is 15-3 in his career, is he not?
Yeah, you're right. My information was about a week and a half old, and I must have missed a game when I was playing catch-up.
For the most part, I agree with the rankings and your reasoning.
What I don't understand, however, is how people who at one moment are talking up Stork as a great toss, turn around and say they dislike Nal_Ra, and they hate watching him. That just blows my mind. It's nearly on the level of someone praising Xellos' style but then saying they can't stand watching Boxer play - ridiculous (and I don't mean that on simply a macro vs micro basis). I personally think Stork's style of play is incredibly boring and makes for bad games, while Ra has consistently brought the scene some of the best moves and games in SC history (as well as -the- best game, but that's beside the point).
Now don't get me wrong, my rambling is mostly an aside - I still agree with you. Ra dropping from the top 10 is understandable with his play this past month, and Stork should remain high on the list even after Iris completely dismantled him. I agree 100% on Stork not being above Bisu as well, and it's clear that if he had to face a zerg in either league, he'd have been waxed. If Savior hadn't lost to FBH and Iris, he'd have likely taken out Stork convincingly in both leagues (that would make twice in the MSL) and been in the finals yet again, and we wouldn't have to deal with this silly hype.
It should be interesting to see how this shakes up next month after seeing how the OSL and MSL end.
Haha just rember Savior has been on top of the KeSPA rankings scence the start of January 2007 been number 1 the whole time haha and he is still on top and just remember that a protoss had never taken rank 1 in KeSPA rankings haha
although i will say because KeSPA is over a 3 month period it is alot more leaniant to people who arent performing at their best although i will say over all performance matters most over immeadate performance
haha i see power rank for fbh too high anyways dude fbh games where all horrible unless it was agnist a terran the game eh played agnist stork well ill say that taht was not the best stork plaing for game 3-5 that jsut didnt look like top play fbh is good in tvt ill give him that but i mean he just doesnt seem to be a good enough all around terran also i think his play is boring haha kinda atributes to this
On July 06 2007 19:39 IzzyCraft wrote: haha i see power rank for fbh too high anyways dude fbh games where all horrible unless it was agnist a terran the game eh played agnist stork well ill say that taht was not the best stork plaing for game 3-5 that jsut didnt look like top play fbh is good in tvt ill give him that but i mean he just doesnt seem to be a good enough all around terran also i think his play is boring haha kinda atributes to this
By this reasoning stork should be lower because his games against iris were total shit... nevertheless, i think his spot is fair... having a killer tvt and tvz as well as being the 2nd pillar to support khan in PL (the 1st being stork and 3rd being sigamari) really does deserve 4th in power rank. However, i still would like to see FBH vs iris... although iris is on steriods right now.. i still think it'd be a great series (although i think iris would win, i wouldnt be surprised if FBH did)
haha i see power rank for fbh too high anyways dude fbh games where all horrible unless it was agnist a terran the game eh played agnist stork well ill say that taht was not the best stork plaing for game 3-5 that jsut didnt look like top play fbh is good in tvt ill give him that but i mean he just doesnt seem to be a good enough all around terran also i think his play is boring haha kinda atributes to this
What I don't understand, however, is how people who at one moment are talking up Stork as a great toss, turn around and say they dislike Nal_Ra, and they hate watching him. That just blows my mind. It's nearly on the level of someone praising Xellos' style but then saying they can't stand watching Boxer play - ridiculous (and I don't mean that on simply a macro vs micro basis). I personally think Stork's style of play is incredibly boring and makes for bad games, while Ra has consistently brought the scene some of the best moves and games in SC history (as well as -the- best game, but that's beside the point).
I find Nal_rA's games to be ugly to watch in general. He tends to win them by macroing against opponents who aren't that great (personal opinion). His group matches with all Terrans he went straight carriers in all of the games (and Boxer was just shaking his head after losing the final game). Now granted, I've only been watching progaming SC the past... oh, 3-4 months, so I can't really speak about anything before then.
Also, Stork seems to have one upped him in boringness this in the semis for the time being.
haha just remebr sAviOr playes alot more games then you really know that why his ranking for KeSPA has been number 1 the whole time he plays alot more games its why he has over 400 + points then 2nd place bisu true savior hasnt been up to his past power and dominace but common power rank fbh over savior i can accept bisu iris and even stork (scence stork and iris are on fire) but fbh haha just rember if i add 400 points to the 10th place person [fake]yellow he woudl be rank 5 in kespa
Great list Etter, the bi-frost terran. But here's my list XD
1. Bisu - He is in the MSL finals again cool, he lost to Flash in OSL through cheeses but a loss is a loss. Also, he's actually doing well in proleague now, so yeah no doubt he's number 1. 2. Stork - I don't know, I really wanted to give this spot to Iris, but he was in both leagues, and still in the MSL even though it was luck. So because he is in 2 leagues I had to give it to him. 3. Iris - Never imagined Iris could beat both Savior and Stork. Enough said. 4. FBH - I really really don't want to give him number 4, I just don't. His bo5 with stork was awful, and I just don't like him. But he has been very strong in the proleagues so here he is. 5. Hwasin - I think he should be ranked Higher than Savior. They both lost to tough opponents by a single game in both leagues. BUT Hwasin is crazy in the proleague, and Savior isn't so yeah~ 6. Savior - Never imagined he would be here 7. GGplay - He beat the TvZ master Hwasin. Better than winning against Bisu with cheeses 8. By.Flash - He's doing really really well, doubt he'll win the OSL though. 9. Sea[Shield] - He beat GoRush(I think) and he's the reason why MBC is still in the playoffs in proleague 10. GoRush - He 3-0'ed my favorite Fatzerg. However I really did not like his performance in the MSL against Bisu. It didn't look like the confident Gorush who could just run over everyone. Instead of the micro/macro battle, he wanted to win using BO's. Just didn't like that.
Nice analysis as usual (and good to see Midas at least back on the close but no cigars. It's a shame he lost to Junwi in PSL and Junwi wasn't able to beat his next opponent, whose name escapes me).
Semi-close to the PR I predicted, but I made my PR before seeing Iris vs Stork >_>
also, now that rA's finally off I can officially state the random pointless fact that savior is the only one who's been on PR every month without fail.
Sad to see July off the list. Oh well; next season I guess =(
On July 06 2007 20:58 zer0das wrote: I find Nal_rA's games to be ugly to watch in general. He tends to win them by macroing against opponents who aren't that great (personal opinion). His group matches with all Terrans he went straight carriers in all of the games (and Boxer was just shaking his head after losing the final game). Now granted, I've only been watching progaming SC the past... oh, 3-4 months, so I can't really speak about anything before then.
Also, Stork seems to have one upped him in boringness this in the semis for the time being.
wow. in the past, when nal_ra was cheesing and using bizzare builds people were complaining and wondering if he could ever play straight up. when he does, someone calls him boring. it seems to have come full circle.
and errr, there's something wrong with you if you don't consider boxer "that great", as rusty as he may be. go watch some old school vods, you'll be pleasantly surprised! the maps weren't as macro oriented as they are now.
and yeah, i still think you deserve to get shot, despite my up-till-now tactful reply to your post. oops, blew it.
On July 07 2007 05:25 Jathin wrote: Haha nal ra sucks his cheeses are far from creative haha i dont even understand why people would be a fan haha he hasn't revolutionized pro-gaming by any means haha
I hope you're joking... If you're not, then no one can help you, you're a lost case. Etter: Do you see the kind of people you connect with, when you write anti-rA comments? the idiot kind.
On July 06 2007 13:43 ManaBlue wrote: I'm really sad to see Stork faulter against Iris. I have so much confidence in the guy, but I guess it's tough having so much going on at once. He didn't look himself last night, but that may also be due to the fact that Iris was taking him apart. As a long time Iris hater, I'm really impressed with the guy and can't deny that he deserves everything he's gotten in this OSL. It would be a crime for someone to steal the title from him now. There are no players left that pose half the threat of the guys he's beaten.
As for all this bullshit about Stork "not being championship material", you jokers obviously have never seen him PvP. He's the only player in the world that is visably better than everyone else in that matchup. Luck factor or not, he's the best PvP in the world and he'll prove it when he beats Bisu. I'm very confident in this kid. He'll show you all.
Uh-uh, confidence is nice and all, but I hope I will be able to quote you on this one later
But seriously tho: he is best PvP in the world? Even if it was true (it may, I dunno, never really bothered watching to much PvP - this is one thing I agree with Etter on - the special olympics of BW), so EVEN IF it was - who cares? It's not like he's going to become champion by that match-up alone. Not only is PvP almost as much of a roulette as ZvZ - it's also the least common mirror match-up nowadays. Granted, this MSL finals is an exception, but I still doubt Stork will be able to sail far on his PvP boat. Or any other boat actually - I just see him as too boring to ever be able to really clench the top prize. Second or third are places I can see him fit in perfectly tho.
On July 06 2007 09:03 Waxangel wrote: it's interesting to have a period where no one is ultra dominant anymore, though I think the 'who can beat BestPlayerOftheTime' angle makes for better entertainment in progaming overall.
On July 07 2007 05:15 dementus wrote:and errr, there's something wrong with you if you don''t consider boxer "that great", as rusty as he may be. go watch some old school vods, you'll be pleasantly surprised! the maps weren't as macro oriented as they are now.
I never said Boxer wasn't great. He was shaking his head because he knew he shouldn't have lost to something like that, especially after catching it the first time.
Also, good to know people want to shoot me because of opinion regarding progamers styles. ~_~
On July 07 2007 06:24 Jathin wrote: Stork and Bisu both have their strengths/weaknesses in PVP. Stork is far superior at goon/reaver. Bisu is great with zeal/goon/HT. So basically if it gets to late-game, Bisu will win. Otherwise more likely Stork.
bisu is good with reaver bu sometimes his macro become shit in pvp i just saw a vod o him vs a toss from pantech and he won becouse of his reaver micro (but his macro was so-so).
On July 07 2007 05:25 Jathin wrote: Haha nal ra sucks his cheeses are far from creative haha i dont even understand why people would be a fan haha he hasn't revolutionized pro-gaming by any means haha
Haha when I read this post I kept saying haha like those Speed Racer Japanese guys from Family Guy when Chris was in a soap box derby haha
Kingdom over Nal_rA - MyCube OSL August - October 2003
Nal_rA over ZeuS - NHN Hangame OSL December 2003 - March 2004
Those are the only two. Strangely they were both in a row.
Except the Daum OSL 2007 thread says that in the Fall 2000 Freechal Open it was (P)Garimto > (ZP)Skelton. Skelton played Zerg and Protoss that series? Did he always play both or something? If so I guess that counts as a partial third.
On July 06 2007 13:43 ManaBlue wrote: I'm really sad to see Stork faulter against Iris. I have so much confidence in the guy, but I guess it's tough having so much going on at once. He didn't look himself last night, but that may also be due to the fact that Iris was taking him apart. As a long time Iris hater, I'm really impressed with the guy and can't deny that he deserves everything he's gotten in this OSL. It would be a crime for someone to steal the title from him now. There are no players left that pose half the threat of the guys he's beaten.
As for all this bullshit about Stork "not being championship material", you jokers obviously have never seen him PvP. He's the only player in the world that is visably better than everyone else in that matchup. Luck factor or not, he's the best PvP in the world and he'll prove it when he beats Bisu. I'm very confident in this kid. He'll show you all.
Uh-uh, confidence is nice and all, but I hope I will be able to quote you on this one later
But seriously tho: he is best PvP in the world? Even if it was true (it may, I dunno, never really bothered watching to much PvP - this is one thing I agree with Etter on - the special olympics of BW), so EVEN IF it was - who cares? It's not like he's going to become champion by that match-up alone. Not only is PvP almost as much of a roulette as ZvZ - it's also the least common mirror match-up nowadays. Granted, this MSL finals is an exception, but I still doubt Stork will be able to sail far on his PvP boat. Or any other boat actually - I just see him as too boring to ever be able to really clench the top prize. Second or third are places I can see him fit in perfectly tho.
He's like the Protoss TheMarine to me.
Let's see how wrong I'll be.
-Mynock
Even if Stork wins it won't make you "wrong". I'm just saying I'm really confident in his abilities.
And yeah, his PvP record is super super good. So that's basically what I'm referencing as evidence.
man this month has been full of twists and turns. who would have thunk that iris would be able to knock off SAVIOR and stork? full of dissapointments but yeah, pretty good list overall. LET US WAIT FOR THE FALL OSL.. RISE OF ANYTIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! haha
On July 08 2007 11:15 VioleTAK wrote: I hate when my favorite players have to go through ODT :-( Even sAviOr has to play ODT next time, I hope he won't screw up.
Welcome to my nightmare. Try being a Reach fan up until this season.
[QUOTE]On July 06 2007 20:58 zer0das wrote: [QUOTE]On July 06 2007 18:54 QibingZero wrote:
I find Nal_rA's games to be ugly to watch in general. He tends to win them by macroing against opponents who aren't that great (personal opinion). His group matches with all Terrans he went straight carriers in all of the games (and Boxer was just shaking his head after losing the final game). Now granted, I've only been watching progaming SC the past... oh, 3-4 months, so I can't really speak about anything before then.
Also, Stork seems to have one upped him in boringness this in the semis for the time being.[/QUOTE]
... are you serious man? nal_ra is famous for so many things that ISNT related to macro... i am just at a lost of words. even though i am not a fan of nal_ra i respect him for being innovative with his builds and unique style of gaming... calling nal_ra a macro whore just shows how ignorant you are... even his games from the past 3-4 months, did you not see his build vs frozean i think where he went BOTH reaver and DT drops/harass? mind you he wasnt the best of terrans, but it just shows the unique playstyle nal_ra brings to the pro scene....
On July 09 2007 20:28 koryano321 wrote:... are you serious man? nal_ra is famous for so many things that ISNT related to macro... i am just at a lost of words. even though i am not a fan of nal_ra i respect him for being innovative with his builds and unique style of gaming... calling nal_ra a macro whore just shows how ignorant you are... even his games from the past 3-4 months, did you not see his build vs frozean i think where he went BOTH reaver and DT drops/harass? mind you he wasnt the best of terrans, but it just shows the unique playstyle nal_ra brings to the pro scene....
and hear hear for the hitman idea!!
Just calling it like I see it. The last match I watched of him was on Monty Hall against UpMagic, and he went with what amounts to a fairly standard build and then dts. Monty Hall being the map most Toss try proxing, etc... he proceeded to get outmacroed for playing it a bit too standard on a map that one shouldn't play too standard on (oh, and he psi-stormed most of his troops midmatch XD).
Haven't watched his game against frozean. I still have no idea why people find it so offensive that someone who has only been keeping track of progaming for 3 months might find Nal_rA bland. I'm entirely aware of his past. I haven't watched any of it (yet), granted.
On July 07 2007 15:33 boghat wrote: Anytime won the OSL too after Nal_rA so my bad.
For some interesting stats though:
Winner of OSL by race:
10 Terran 6 Protoss 4 Zerg 1 Random (Grrrr...)
MSL:
7 Terran 5 Zerg 2 Protoss
Total:
17 Terran 9 Zerg 8 Protoss 1 Random
4 zergs for osl? you probably count the korea open, that isn't generally considered a starleague.
Of all msl and osl, only 2 finals so far were pvp, but it's also the case for tvt (1 osl, 1 msl) and zvz (2 msl) so it's a fairly balanced figure for mirrors.
btw, in the freechal osl, Skelton played 1 game as toss against Garimto, because it was played on an island map iirc. he's really a zerg player, just that at the time he had the right to choose race and he probably took the chance to play a pvp instead of a zvp he was pretty sure to lose
One word and a smile: GGPlay :-) As so many people wrote after the PR was released, "GGPlay above Flash" Up up and above, sAviOr, Hwasin, FBH... < GGPlay for the crown :-)
Well GGplay and FlaSh both proved they are extremely skilled in my opinion. I was always giving the upper hand to GGplay, I was just pipe dream hoping FlaSh would come up with something brilliant but oh well, I'm not that disappointed or surprised.
On July 13 2007 04:50 boghat wrote: Well GGplay and FlaSh both proved they are extremely skilled in my opinion. I was always giving the upper hand to GGplay, I was just pipe dream hoping FlaSh would come up with something brilliant but oh well, I'm not that disappointed or surprised.
It was pretty close tho.
The first game was pretty disappointing from both sides, but especially Flash. He really should have been more careful on a map like Monghwa.
The game could easily have become a drawn-out, interesting game, but instead it turned into a rush, and Flash is to blame, not GGplay, that it ended so early. Then again, it kinda seemed as if Flash just couldn't stand the map at all, maybe he had his own private objections to it, I dunno.
MSL final just prove PR has the right order for Bisu and Stork. :D.
To be honest I never heard Bisu's name before I read the first Power Ranking few month ago. I just reread it, Etter mentioned that he has great potential but lost to Goodfriends can't be condoned. After that Bisu disappear from PR for few month and come back to place the second slot in PR.
Within half year Bisu win 2 MSL title in one row. That is amazing.
Yeah, it was just one excellent stasis, excellent, but lucky. And game 5 has clearly shown Bisu's storming is sloppy. Stork was definetely storming better. Game 4 was ugly as well. Reaver + shuttle >> reaver and Bisu should've known that. Nevertheless, I still consider Bisu to be a better player overall. Etter pointed precisely that Bisu is the only toss in the world atm who can be given at least even odds with pretty much anyone.
For those attacking Ra, he is not the hottest player atm, but watch the games from the past. He's a hero of pimpest plays along Boxer.
And I'm so happy with Iris on place 3! Gogogo, berserker terran!
On July 14 2007 13:07 BluzMan wrote: Yeah, it was just one excellent stasis, excellent, but lucky. And game 5 has clearly shown Bisu's storming is sloppy. Stork was definetely storming better. Game 4 was ugly as well. Reaver + shuttle >> reaver and Bisu should've known that. Nevertheless, I still consider Bisu to be a better player overall. Etter pointed precisely that Bisu is the only toss in the world atm who can be given at least even odds with pretty much anyone.
For those attacking Ra, he is not the hottest player atm, but watch the games from the past. He's a hero of pimpest plays along Boxer.
And I'm so happy with Iris on place 3! Gogogo, berserker terran!
Goon with range >>> Goon without Range, Stork should know it as well. Where is the DA from stork? Everyone make mistakes, I think Stork make more mistakes so he lose the 5th game. The stasis was not lucky. That is his purpose to use it in the battle.
To be honest I could not make any judgment about storm in the game 5. There are too many storms going on in the whole game. But somehow Bisu win more battles than stork.
Stork may have made terrible mistakes that cost him dearly, but I could say the same for Bisu (example: he lost his first army due to it being out of position). However, Bisu withstood the pressure and Bisu made less of the game deciding mistakes. I think Etter said best himself ... Bisu's the Champion. It could have gone either way, but in my mind that's a damned good reason to credit Bisu, as when he was at a disadvantage, held his nerves and played the game winning move. The hallmark of a true champion and someone in blazing form.
On July 15 2007 07:49 HaXxorIzed wrote: Stork may have made terrible mistakes that cost him dearly, but I could say the same for Bisu (example: he lost his first army due to it being out of position). However, Bisu withstood the pressure and Bisu made less of the game deciding mistakes. I think Etter said best himself ... Bisu's the Champion. It could have gone either way, but in my mind that's a damned good reason to credit Bisu, as when he was at a disadvantage, held his nerves and played the game winning move. The hallmark of a true champion and someone in blazing form.
Agreed. It is very close game and could go either way. But I don't think there is so much lucky factor in the 5th game. It dependent whether you can hold the pressure and come back if you are in disadvantage.
Even if Iris wins OSL finals 3-0, Bisu still deserves #1 without a shadow of a doubt. He's the ultimate champion, to win Game-5 like that.. Bisu is simply amazing, a perfect champion. Stork played amazing of course.. If Iris wins OSL I'd place Stork #3, if GGPlay wins OSL I'd place Stork #2 :-) I know what you're thinking BUT GGPlay isn't Zerg perfection, I'd still give him even odds to lose a Bo3 set against any good player, or even Proleague matches (while I'd give both Bisu and Stork a very high 80%+ chance to take almost any set), GGPlay has the guts and will of a champion, but he's no Bisu imo. I love GGPlay for his spirit, but I don't think he's the kind of player that can.. for example, win 2 titles in a row, or make it to two finals in a row. But its about time he gets his title shot, and he well earned it!
On July 14 2007 13:07 BluzMan wrote: Yeah, it was just one excellent stasis, excellent, but lucky. And game 5 has clearly shown Bisu's storming is sloppy. Stork was definetely storming better. Game 4 was ugly as well. Reaver + shuttle >> reaver and Bisu should've known that. Nevertheless, I still consider Bisu to be a better player overall. Etter pointed precisely that Bisu is the only toss in the world atm who can be given at least even odds with pretty much anyone.
For those attacking Ra, he is not the hottest player atm, but watch the games from the past. He's a hero of pimpest plays along Boxer.
And I'm so happy with Iris on place 3! Gogogo, berserker terran!
Goon with range >>> Goon without Range, Stork should know it as well. Where is the DA from stork? Everyone make mistakes, I think Stork make more mistakes so he lose the 5th game. The stasis was not lucky. That is his purpose to use it in the battle.
To be honest I could not make any judgment about storm in the game 5. There are too many storms going on in the whole game. But somehow Bisu win more battles than stork.
No, these cases are different. Forgetting goon range in a storm-based and intense PvP is a slightly important thing that, while having some effect on the game, is theoretically possible to go unnoticed. Forgetting to build a shuttle for your reaver is impossible to get unnoticed, it's like forgetting to get goons at all. What I'm saying is that in game 4 Bisu played like a D-level player who doesn't even know that the most standard protoss build involved a reaver in a shuttle that will fly to his base at a certain time and kill all of his army. That is precisely what happened. It's not that Bisu forgot something, he was caught with his pants down with the most basic thing in the protoss book, which is, imho, untolerable for a player of his level. Game 2 was a brilliant display of an unusual strategy and godzilla firepower, surely a must watch, but game 4 was a disgrace to progaming that shouldn't have happened.
Well, after watching the finals myself... games 1 and 3 I don't think Stork could have won after a bit. Game 2 or 4 (I forget which, and perhaps both), Bisu expanded way too quickly and got punished for it, simple as that (game 2 it was just by dual robos, surprised this hasn't popped up more on this map). I wouldn't really call game 4 a disgrace to progaming (the Stork vs FBH series might have been, but given all the great judgement calls Bisu makes, one semi-major screwup that costs a game because the opponent catches it isn't exactly a grave disgrace).
Take home point being: I doubt Stork had as good of a shot as he thought in games 1 and 3, Bisu made some really bad choices that gave Stork a good shot of winning games 2 and 4 (but Stork also took advantage of them, especially in game 2).
Oh, and it's hard to argue that Bisu's stasis was luck when you consider the fact that he outmined his final expansion way ahead of Stork and had arbiters far more quickly than Stork. The reason he was able to abuse it in the first place without eating a stasis himself is because he had two and Stork had one (also, why did Stork not get a stasis in on Bisu's army after his unstasised? He could have potentially trapped most of Bisu's army and united his army that had been stasised with his remaining army. I half suspect he didn't research it, or he messed up on an epic scale and lost his chance to salvage an abysmal battle).
I havent watched the games but im assuming why he didnt get the shuttle was to get a earlier nexus and to expo earlier then get his shuttle after his 2 reavers. Which is a good strategy just that stork came with a shuttle and reavers and shuttle w/ reavers > reavers alone.
Also we must assume iris probably wouldnt be in the finals if stork knew how to play vs 2 fact terran.
Here's what I think, after both finals. First of all, Bisu still #1, until someone pushes him off his throne in some Bo5, or he fails to impress. But as for #2-4... its tough. Stork, all together, still feels like the strongest of the three (Stork, Iris, GGPlay), however, 1vs1 I still think Iris would take Stork down any day any time any set! Yes Stork did take out Flash.. the way he did.. but Stork himself said in the interview he's afraid of Iris's 2 fact, and just unsure about stuff. Iris would detroy him in a rematch... But as I said, overall Stork is the stronger player, thats how I see it. GGPlay... I can't find his rightful place in my mind, I love him so much, he's always been one of my all times favorite players, his tendency for EPIC games, and so much fun to watch. This is the first time I'm starting to feel GGPlay is becoming a solid player to really count on (until now, until the very finals, I still couldn't feel it), and I can't help but think he made it all the way on pure guts and spirit, more than his skill..yes amazing skill indeed, but I need to see more of him to make his place strong in my mind. He needs to show he can continue to impress next season. And thats why I have to give Stork a place above GGPlay, have to give GGPlay a place above Iris, Have to give Iris a place above Stork :-) Stork > GGPlay > Iris > Stork... yay! useless I know :-) Bisu stil holds the crown.
The problem is that Bisu, Iris, and GGplay can all face Stork with rather good odds. The one thing Stork has is that he made it very far in both Starleagues, getting 3rd and 2nd in OSL and MSL respectively. However, I don't see him as being a 'dominant' player anymore; his PvZ is still weak, his PvP is a bit below Bisu's, and Iris showed that his PvT is not invincible. I'd say Stork should be around 4 or 5 in the next P.R., depending on how he performs in the coming Proleague finals. Outside of Proleague, we won't see Stork play for a while, as he doesn't have any qualifiers to play through, so placing him is a bit hard.
i dunno man, bisu vs stork pvp i would both give them even money. it wasnt like it was totally dominated by one player during their games, it was pretty even but bisu got the better hand. who knows what would happen in a rematch between those two, you never know with games being that close. i still believe his pvt is pretty amazing even though it aint invincible. for the next pr, i would still keep him up in the top 3 though, unless he blunders in the proleague cuz of the results he has shown as of late.
i dunno man, bisu vs stork pvp i would both give them even money. it wasnt like it was totally dominated by one player during their games, it was pretty even but bisu got the better hand. who knows what would happen in a rematch between those two, you never know with games being that close. i still believe his pvt is pretty amazing even though it aint invincible. for the next pr, i would still keep him up in the top 3 though, unless he blunders in the proleague cuz of the results he has shown as of late.
but yeah, does sea really deserve to be on the next power ranking? cuz in my mind he doesnt, he does okay in proleague, but he just got destroyed by jaedong in the osc. i hope he is off the list next time, the kid who never fulfills the expectations we all have for him.
On July 21 2007 11:49 Jyvblamo wrote: The problem is that Bisu, Iris, and GGplay can all face Stork with rather good odds. The one thing Stork has is that he made it very far in both Starleagues, getting 3rd and 2nd in OSL and MSL respectively. However, I don't see him as being a 'dominant' player anymore; his PvZ is still weak, his PvP is a bit below Bisu's, and Iris showed that his PvT is not invincible. I'd say Stork should be around 4 or 5 in the next P.R., depending on how he performs in the coming Proleague finals. Outside of Proleague, we won't see Stork play for a while, as he doesn't have any qualifiers to play through, so placing him is a bit hard.
Stork's PvZ isn't weak. He lost to Savior twice.. well it's savior and lost to GGPlay in his group (it was BO loss, his proxy robo had been scouted early). His other PvZ's were quite strong. And I disagree that his PvP is worse than Bisu's. This series was very close and everything can happen in a rematch. Well I think their PvT's are at nearly the same level too. The difference is that while Stork's PvZ is strong, Bisu's one is amazing. And that's the key.
what happened to savior? T-T it's like the evil ghost that controlled him and made him invincible suddenly left.... he smiles now, wears white, and stopped doing his hair
Storks pvz reminds me of somewhat like reachs it can be pretty decent at times but never will be at the "top of the line" level in other words his pvz is pretty terrible.
ur not gonna agree with me on this one, but: i see flash over hwasin also yea he may not have "proved" himself, and his lategame is lacking, but he is so young and he has so much untapped talent that i think power-wise, he is stronger than hwasin atm
The power ranking is about form and power. It's a lot harder to take a Flash that loses games to carriers easily, crumbles to Stork in the 3rd place final and does tend to struggle lategame over Hwasin, who has been pretty consistent all around and stuck it to the top players in all three matchups.
On July 26 2007 06:05 HaXxorIzed wrote: The power ranking is about form and power. It's a lot harder to take a Flash that loses games to carriers easily, crumbles to Stork in the 3rd place final and does tend to struggle lategame over Hwasin, who has been pretty consistent all around and stuck it to the top players in all three matchups.
flash losing to stork isnt a big deal dude, stork is known for his pvt...i think hwaSin has a bigger fanbase because hes been in the limelight longer, he has had the chance to play (and lose to) the best of each race, and flash is still a young young player...tough call really
I know it's hardly a slump, but bisu going 6/7 overall in PL stats for the season has disappointed me greatly. I hope he makes it up by tearing people apart in his ODT group ...
On July 31 2007 20:32 CustomXSpunjah wrote: i can see rock climbing wayy up the PR if a new one appears in august he is a monster and hes getting better and better
EPT
but Stork is there so it's ok.
Getting steamrolled so often must have been hard on his confidence, probably resulting in alot of practice against Protoss, since he probably saw Bisu as his biggest rival, only to lose against terrans before he even had a chance to meet him... Im just speculating ofc.
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