EPTWhen should Blizzard release a balance patch for HotS?
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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Kreggar
United States83 Posts
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geno
United States1404 Posts
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eg.TM
2 Posts
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Prplppleatr
United States1518 Posts
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Klipsys
United States1533 Posts
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iiGreetings
Canada563 Posts
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BlackPride
United States186 Posts
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HeyAngel_01
Canada12 Posts
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
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ChuCky.Ca
Canada2497 Posts
On March 18 2013 13:53 mizU wrote: *cough* medivac speed boost *cough* no nerfing plz just buff other races stuff | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
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kochanfe
Micronesia1338 Posts
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WIllBIll
590 Posts
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Wrathsc2
United States2025 Posts
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macncheezeplz
United States93 Posts
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M,J,Y
New Zealand16 Posts
And even the opposite happens, Life made it look like Terran was not strong at all but for us mortals Terran is a real handful. | ||
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Hall0wed
United States8486 Posts
Honestly though, just wait it out. | ||
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MirageTaN
Singapore871 Posts
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Ackee
Sweden11 Posts
The void ray is just ridic atm, everytime I try to go 1 rax expo (gasless) they just proxxy stargate and 3 gates and just end the game. Example: ROOTLeiya vs (Ragequit)QXC The void ray ATM is a little bit too good. | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
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CountZero71
Germany89 Posts
Granted, it's a new game, so it will need more attention, but constant "nerf"/"buff" demands are ruining any development by the players. | ||
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Enzymatic
Canada1301 Posts
On March 18 2013 11:45 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: I say 2-3 months. Soonest should be after gsl. Despite my complaints of ZvT and ZvP lategame, I do agree the zerg representation wasn't the best at IEM and MLG and the gsl should be a far better gauge of where zerg is on the top end. ? A Zerg just won mlg. | ||
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Champi
1422 Posts
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Creager
Germany1893 Posts
On March 18 2013 18:07 Ackee wrote: I'd say as long as takes before blizzard has figured out how to nerf protoss air play (Void Rays, Oracles) so it becomes weaker but not shit. I really like that protoss got a harass unit but what I don't understand is why it can kill marines. The void ray is just ridic atm, everytime I try to go 1 rax expo (gasless) they just proxxy stargate and 3 gates and just end the game. Example: ROOTLeiya vs (Ragequit)QXC The void ray ATM is a little bit too good. Marines can kill both oracles and MC quite fast, so I don't see a severe problem there, also the prismatic beam of the VR doesn't affect light units so marines aren't killed faster, or am I wrong? It's maybe too greedy to gasless expand at this stage of the game as many people tend to do 1-base play since builds for early pushes are easier to adapt to than figuring out the complexity of the metagame during the later stages... Give it half a year or when clear imbalances are materializing... Blizz overdid a bit it in the earlier days with Terran (before other players really could start to figure out things by themselves) and then after the queenbuff and the discovery of mass infestor chilled for too long until they actually decided to do at least something about it -> resulted in Zerg domination for the last 8 or so months of WoL). Medivac boosts are strong, but not impossible to defend, it just requires adaptation and more routine. Blinkstalker-MC all-in is one tough bastard as well, but yet Mvp and Innovation showed how to hold it off... (Yeah I know, kinda bad example because of medivac's lategame potential etc.) | ||
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Grapefruit
Germany439 Posts
Wow, it's literally 2010 again. On topic, I think they need to roll out a patch soon. Terran and Protoss are fine, they don't need to be nerfed, but Zerg needs to be buffed. Overall Zerg winrate in the IEM and MLG (despite Life winning) is below 40%. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZmbMw5y.png) | ||
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KingMel
France120 Posts
On March 18 2013 11:45 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: I say 2-3 months. Soonest should be after gsl. Despite my complaints of ZvT and ZvP lategame, I do agree the zerg representation wasn't the best at IEM and MLG and the gsl should be a far better gauge of where zerg is on the top end. The game has to be balanced for everbody, not only the best players :/ | ||
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gingerfluffmuff
Austria4570 Posts
On March 18 2013 20:26 KingMel wrote: The game has to be balanced for everbody, not only the best players :/ No. Everybody (except maybe Code S Koreans) should worry about mechanics first. At lower skill levels balance matters even less. | ||
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ARLEN
Sweden21 Posts
Starcraft is and has always been changing, just like in the "old" days (during BW) when patches came out less frequently and still pro's found ways to change the entire game with new discoveries. It was almost like the game patched/balanced itself because of the development and rethinking of the game. Just dont think everything is impossible just because you saw it on MLG/GSL. If we had the game unpatched for a longer time (5-7 months), do you really believe the builds would be the same, that people still would loose to the same thing? I dont think so. | ||
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duckmaster
687 Posts
On March 18 2013 20:09 Grapefruit wrote: Wow, it's literally 2010 again. On topic, I think they need to roll out a patch soon. Terran and Protoss are fine, they don't need to be nerfed, but Zerg needs to be buffed. Overall Zerg winrate in the IEM and MLG (despite Life winning) is below 40%. Great job, posting statistics with a ridiculously small sample size. edit: should at least try to take into account the player pool, which especially for IEM was just awful for Zerg. Koreans beating foreigner Zergs has nothing to do with balance. | ||
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Lukeeze[zR]
Switzerland6838 Posts
On March 18 2013 20:59 duckmaster wrote: Great job, posting statistics with a ridiculously small sample size. + involving mainly foreign Z Like the majority, I say wait for the first GSL/GSTL. We've seen so many new stuff in one week-end, things will keep evolving. Let the players figure things out rather than nerfing/buffing everything after a tournament. | ||
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Slayer008
United States15 Posts
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Dvriel
607 Posts
On March 18 2013 20:09 Grapefruit wrote: Wow, it's literally 2010 again. On topic, I think they need to roll out a patch soon. Terran and Protoss are fine, they don't need to be nerfed, but Zerg needs to be buffed. Overall Zerg winrate in the IEM and MLG (despite Life winning) is below 40%. Your statistic is quite bad,because foreigner tournmaments only count with 10-12 good koreans.Would you say the american football(Soccer) league is the best? The Champions League,Spain,England,Italy,GErmany and FRance got the best players and teams,so you can make your statistics there,not in Africa or China,ok? As well GSL should not be taken as representative of the actual state of the game.We need at least 1-2 GS(T)Ls... | ||
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Dvriel
607 Posts
On March 18 2013 21:46 Slayer008 wrote: Toss needs a buff. Do you see how screwed they are against medivac drops in their current state? Tosses should not be forced to go air to deal with it. Why not? Terrans are forced to go BIO vs toss,because no Mech is possible.They also need to go Vikings to kill Broodlords or Collosu and Ghosts to try prevent storms or kill HTs.ITs a new game,with new units,why would you want to play the same way? | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
On March 18 2013 14:12 kochanfe wrote: Soon. Void Ray is game-breaking in PvP. Thats what they said about 4gate and colossi armies LOL | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
On March 18 2013 21:46 Dvriel wrote: Your statistic is quite bad,because foreigner tournmaments only count with 10-12 good koreans.Would you say the american football(Soccer) league is the best? The Champions League,Spain,England,Italy,GErmany and FRance got the best players and teams,so you can make your statistics there,not in Africa or China,ok? As well GSL should not be taken as representative of the actual state of the game.We need at least 1-2 GS(T)Ls... This, and we're talking (in absolute percentages) 10% margin of error. The "worst" race won 10% less (or 1 in 5 less games) TvZ would seem to be extremely imbalanced in terrans favor from this, but Life went 4-2 over Flash in games that did not seem at all easy for the terran side. I believe that there was enough pubstomping by better players to throw numbers off to 40/60 and even if there was not - its an acceptable margin in the first week of the game being live. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
On March 18 2013 21:46 Slayer008 wrote: Toss needs a buff. Do you see how screwed they are against medivac drops in their current state? Tosses should not be forced to go air to deal with it. Stargate play pretty early is actually quite powerful. It's not being "forced" to go air if you can do good damage and harass with map control and phoenix's are great at defense, scouting around map while also being great army uses with awesome syncing with colossi (+1 air attack for +20% damage, great anti viking, can kill/reset medivacs, can lift many units) | ||
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Kabras
Romania3508 Posts
On March 18 2013 21:46 Slayer008 wrote: Toss needs a buff. Do you see how screwed they are against medivac drops in their current state? Tosses should not be forced to go air to deal with it. No, they should definitely be able to defend Terran tier 3 tech with gateway units alone. Cuz getting air to defend air attacks is outrageous, right? What Toss needs is to start doing something else other than 2 base colossus or turtling for 200/200 into a-move. the game barely got out, at least try to deal with stuff before asking for nerfs. | ||
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Mouldy
Australia8 Posts
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Kpaxlol
813 Posts
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Doc Daneeka
United States577 Posts
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DusTerr
2520 Posts
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Mellon
Sweden917 Posts
On March 18 2013 14:12 kochanfe wrote: Soon. Void Ray is game-breaking in PvP. Ever tried opening blink stalkers and getting a freewin vs it? | ||
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vrok
Sweden2541 Posts
On a side note, and not necessarily balance related, I wish hellbats and widow mines made more sense. Mech units being healed by medivacs, free speed boost abilities, and widow mines actually being burrowed turrets that hit both ground and air instead of being, you know, mines, just screams out how badly fitting the units are. Never mind the unnecessary unit role overlap. I wish terran got goliaths instead. Goliaths are awesome.  | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
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W00tbeer1
United States33 Posts
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Aquila-
516 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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MrMatt
Canada225 Posts
And reading the comment above. I agree that it shouldn't be patched to NR 20. I hope they leave the aggressive options open because they aren't ridiculous now that we don't have maps like steppes and close position metal. I really hope the game stays entertaining from start to finish. | ||
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shivver
United States232 Posts
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TBone-
United States2309 Posts
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Exigaet
Canada355 Posts
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Juisson
Finland52 Posts
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trada
Germany347 Posts
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KristofferAG
Norway25712 Posts
On March 18 2013 14:04 ChuCky.Ca wrote: no nerfing plz just buff other races stuff Yes, please tell people to get static defenses. In all seriousness I'd think a patch shouldn't come more often than every 3 months unless there's a glaring imbalance in the game that really ruins the experience for spectators and players alike. Right now I'd say it can still wait around 3 months. | ||
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Serelitz
Netherlands2895 Posts
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TheDougler
Canada8304 Posts
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Gorilla23
United States339 Posts
On March 18 2013 12:41 iiGreetings wrote: Honestly, I think 1 month is a little to soon even though I voted for 1-3. They really should let the meta evolve and let players really work the limitations of each race currently, and frankly, that probably won't be done by april 15th. Voting in this did make me a bit uncomfortable. 1 month is very different than 3, but they are in the same category. I feel one month would be far too soon, but four would be too long if something became an obvious imbalance after two months of games in Code S and PL. | ||
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Exigaet
Canada355 Posts
On March 19 2013 04:04 TheDougler wrote: Such a hard question to answer. ZvZ needs to be fixed, and PvP might as well, but I think all other matchups are fine. Agreed. ZvZ being Muta-ling pretty much every single game is really boring. | ||
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rigelsc2
Philippines5 Posts
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Vortun
42 Posts
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BoondockVeritas
United States191 Posts
On March 18 2013 14:04 ChuCky.Ca wrote: no nerfing plz just buff other races stuff I want this to be the motto of blizzard when they do a patch. The medivac is entertaining to watch, but I'm fairly positive it'd be more entertaining if there was an answer for it. Turtle and lose macro or take third and get picked apart feels like lose lose. Having mc apm and control and skill to stop terran feels silly too. Time will tell I guess. | ||
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
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IcookTacos
Sweden295 Posts
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Scurvy
United States117 Posts
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syroz
France249 Posts
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mhael
United States102 Posts
1) zerg seems to have a higher ceiling as it seems they have more mechanics to work on between injects, micro, army control is harder, creep spread - there is a lot going on. 2) Lots of the top zerg players have not been represented n tourneys yet - wait until GSL 3) Lots of the top protoss and terrans have been playing Hots LONGER, because of zerg dominance in GSL - so they have been playing WoL & HoTs.... now they can be 100% dedicated to HOTS. Hello we had almost a full 8 zergs in round of 8 in GSL - it was ridiculous. 4) If changes are made- should be minor - maybe making the boos on medivacs eneergy based etc.... Game seems really balanced with lots of opening options for everyone. I am actually enjoying toss games now b/c I know it has other tech routes other than immortal sentry or end game. 5) Round of 4 at MLG was 1 Zerg, 1 Toss, 2 Terran. That is really balanced especially since the 2 terran are the 2 best terran right now in the world, the zerg was the best zerg alive right now, and the toss was top 3 toss alive. MLG showed that this new game is very balanced and WAY more exciting. Minor tweaks no doubt will be needed - but don't knee jerk react, nerf everything and suddenly when Zergs get better we have a WoL all over again - that was 100% garbage. | ||
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
For the love of god, don't change what isn't broken | ||
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
On March 19 2013 06:39 Iplaythings wrote: Please not yet For the love of god, don't change what isn't broken This is my feeling. In 3 months (thats why I chose 1-3) if something comes up, sure. Right now, the game is looking better than it ever really has. | ||
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Havik_
United States5585 Posts
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thezanursic
5478 Posts
On March 18 2013 11:45 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: I say 2-3 months. Soonest should be after gsl. Despite my complaints of ZvT and ZvP lategame, I do agree the zerg representation wasn't the best at IEM and MLG and the gsl should be a far better gauge of where zerg is on the top end. A zerg won the tournament? Don't jump the gun the game just came out. | ||
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lost_artz
United States366 Posts
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regizer239
Guam327 Posts
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xtyxtbx
United States53 Posts
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Big-t
Austria1350 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On March 19 2013 14:45 thezanursic wrote: A zerg won the tournament? Don't jump the gun the game just came out. A Zerg named Life. He's kind of the best Zerg and probably best player in the world? Hell he even said Zerg is UP when interviewed right after winning, xD. Also I'm not jumping anything. I did say I agree we should wait, however, I'm in agreement with Life that Zerg is UP thus far from playing and pro observation. I'm looking forward to gsl to see if any of the Korean Zergs have solutions, because as I said, MLG and IEM did not have the strongest Zergs compared to their protoss and terran counterparts. GSL does. | ||
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purakushi
United States3300 Posts
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mr.grimm
Sweden63 Posts
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thezanursic
5478 Posts
On March 19 2013 19:08 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: A Zerg named Life. He's kind of the best Zerg and probably best player in the world? Hell he even said Zerg is UP when interviewed right after winning, xD. Also I'm not jumping anything. I did say I agree we should wait, however, I'm in agreement with Life that Zerg is UP thus far from playing and pro observation. I'm looking forward to gsl to see if any of the Korean Zergs have solutions, because as I said, MLG and IEM did not have the strongest Zergs compared to their protoss and terran counterparts. GSL does. Players are biased. And even if he is the best zerg. He beat the best terrans and protosses. -.- Imagine if blizzard nerfed/buffed in BW whenever something seemed imba... In my opinion 3 months is the minimum time that blizzard should wait before changing ANYTHING | ||
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Tobblish
Sweden6404 Posts
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Koerage
Netherlands1220 Posts
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Sc2Wrath
United Kingdom58 Posts
It's nice Blizzard are not rushing into it though IMO. | ||
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
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crazyweasel
607 Posts
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wUndertUnge
United States1125 Posts
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Jornada
United States223 Posts
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Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
Despite that, they should be looking at the possible issues now, and figuring out possible changes IF they're needed. People generally agree what the possible issues are (voidray/skytoss, widow mine ai, speedivacs, mutas in zvz, etc) and blizz should start brainstorming solutions now. | ||
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4ZakeN87
Sweden1071 Posts
Speedmedivac is an issue, and so far the best solution for protoss is to go for one base air/ground timing. If this is the remaining solution in 2 months time, we are going to have some pretty boring matches. See if SUPER IMBA GG remains ^.^ People talk about recall but I am not sure, okay so you recall once, great you defend "a" drop. Usually "a" drop is not the issue. Regardless is taking a third base still really, really hard and if you cant take a third does defending drops usually only mean that you have successfully delayed your defeat with 5 minutes. Voidray should probably be nerfed too and if medivac remains this way I think protoss/zerg need better tools to deal with it. Medivacs remind me of how the initial blue flame hellions were in WoL. They risk/reward factor is in favor of reward every time. I am not sure what tactic protoss goes for that makes medivac drops become so risky that Terran doesnt try to drop. One base mass cannons? ^.^ | ||
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blastyblast21
United States61 Posts
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
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Taipoka
Brazil1224 Posts
1 - Well, if we have something wrong that needs a patch, it should be done asap. 2 - If we didn´t have something wrong, why patch after gsl? Wait til something looks wrong! I vote for number 2. | ||
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Trasko
Sweden983 Posts
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On March 20 2013 10:07 Taipoka wrote: I find it funny this "they should patch after GSL". 1 - Well, if we have something wrong that needs a patch, it should be done asap. 2 - If we didn´t have something wrong, why patch after gsl? Wait til something looks wrong! I vote for number 2. Obviously the problem is that you don't know if something is wrong or just appear to be wrong due to sample size / experience / development of meta. | ||
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CursOr
United States6335 Posts
Identify your problems. Solutions. Then do your vote, or draw straws, or whatever the hell it is you guys do there... but 1 change. ONE. CHANGE. That way you can quantify exactly why the metagame changes. Maybe changes once every 2 months after that. You will have much better control of the game I promise you. | ||
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Maynarde
Australia1286 Posts
A lot of people have mentioned to wait for GSL and some other large scale tournaments and couldn't agree more! | ||
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Nadril
68 Posts
Of course if something ends up being really broken than maybe patch sooner, but I'd prefer to see how at least this next GSL plays out and Dreamhack as well. | ||
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Chvol
United States200 Posts
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
T is definately a bit broken at the moment, they are simply the only race to get really useful upgrades in Hots: widow mine, battle hellion, medivac boost, air and mech upgrade combined, free siege, improved reapers and better thors. Zerg on the other hand gets for useful stuff only the viper and muta buff, swarm host is practically useless and hydra's still stink. P get's some decent stuff too but it's of little use against T, only the oracle is somewhat useful in that matchup though stargate is still of limited use there. The result is simple that T is broken now and results will proof that easily in a month. Patching needs to happen then or slightly earlier. No big things are needed, a tiny medivac nerf and maybe a slight fix to the voidray will be enough but as it is the game is blatantly broken which will reveal itself soon enough in numbers as well | ||
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warmus
United Kingdom196 Posts
On March 20 2013 17:36 Markwerf wrote: just because Life happened to win MLG some people think there is some balance while such a knockout tourney is a terrible gauge for balance. T is definately a bit broken at the moment, they are simply the only race to get really useful upgrades in Hots: widow mine, battle hellion, medivac boost, air and mech upgrade combined, free siege, improved reapers and better thors. Zerg on the other hand gets for useful stuff only the viper and muta buff, swarm host is practically useless and hydra's still stink. P get's some decent stuff too but it's of little use against T, only the oracle is somewhat useful in that matchup though stargate is still of limited use there. The result is simple that T is broken now and results will proof that easily in a month. Patching needs to happen then or slightly earlier. No big things are needed, a tiny medivac nerf and maybe a slight fix to the voidray will be enough but as it is the game is blatantly broken which will reveal itself soon enough in numbers as well I absolutely love this rationale. "Here is my opinion, based on nothing concrete, but its true!". You dont know a single thing about balance at this point in hots. What Idra says or how bly loses to flash is not evidence for anything, which have been so far the two types of hots experiences relating to balance. 1) A bunch of semi pros who have never developed the meta game in any way making statements about balance as they ladder in the beta. 2) Tournament results representing foreign zergs getting smashed by korean Ps and Ts. Until we see at least the first GSL, there is nothing really to be said about balance, because we have not seen the game played at a consistently highest (meta developing) level, with the actually best players barely starting to play. Stop thinking you know something about balance, as there is simply nothing out there yet that can support your claim. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
New units are strong, as they should be. Terrans changes are easier to apply in a game because they don't change they way you play that much. P / Z need more time because they got more complex units. | ||
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Lysanias
Netherlands8351 Posts
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
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squanzo
68 Posts
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InSpiReZerG
United States159 Posts
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Otak
United Kingdom110 Posts
On March 18 2013 18:07 Ackee wrote: I'd say as long as takes before blizzard has figured out how to nerf protoss air play (Void Rays, Oracles) so it becomes weaker but not shit. I really like that protoss got a harass unit but what I don't understand is why it can kill marines. . What I don't understand is the mentality that marines MUST be able to easily beat any air units. | ||
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Kontys
Finland659 Posts
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Kamate
Romania580 Posts
I mean : I Know teamliquid is all masters or diamonds, or some awesome shit ;.You guys ( diamonds and pearls and shit) complain a lot. Yet , most of MLG was WOL play . when MC manages to go to semifinals trghu Oracles and penix" es How the fuck can we call balance , nerf, OP, UP, etc? | ||
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dirtydurb82
United States178 Posts
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Crazypyro1
United States446 Posts
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niteReloaded
Croatia5281 Posts
Poll: When should I visit a doctor? This poll is retarded, just like the OP one. (15) After 6+ months / never. (3) As soon as possible. (2) After 1 - 3 months. (1) After 4 - 6 months. (1) 22 total votes Your vote: When should I visit a doctor? (Vote): After 1 - 3 months. It all depends on how severe the symptoms are, and then it's almost trivial. | ||
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furo
Germany449 Posts
On March 18 2013 11:53 Prplppleatr wrote: Wheres the option "when theres a glaring imbalance" sounds good to me as well its a stupid idea to put a date on it right now Z seems weakest overall but thats natural since Z is more adaptive/less creative than the other two races. what if Z figures out the timings and gets a buff? | ||
Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
On March 21 2013 16:17 Crazypyro1 wrote: Medivacs take 50% more dmg while boost. Widow mine splash reduced slightly. No. First let the players try to adapt (some are already doing particulary well, it means there's room for improvement for other players, which might not adapt as quickly, but will eventually ...). Then see if there's imbalance somewhere... Seriously, I'm tired of this, the balance change must happen AFTER players have tried to adapt... Not before when it's purely emotional and impulsive... | ||
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TBone-
United States2309 Posts
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
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Gprime
Canada198 Posts
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WikidSik
Canada382 Posts
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Iwik
57 Posts
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sihyunie
United States108 Posts
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DjSweetBazz
Sweden172 Posts
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WhalesFromSpace
390 Posts
On March 23 2013 05:09 DjSweetBazz wrote: medivacs and window mines are stupidly strong, we zergs need a fix for this asap, ladder isnt fun anymore Micro is good against mines! | ||
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DMZ
Canada51 Posts
Only if you're Life. | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
Welcome to the world of micro Zergs. You can't amove any more. | ||
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
Right now I think after big tournament, where players show that they have accustomed to hots. Last MLG was not definitely that case. It was very random and big part of players didn't really play hots. | ||
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sorrowptoss
Canada1431 Posts
On March 18 2013 21:46 Slayer008 wrote: Toss needs a buff. Do you see how screwed they are against medivac drops in their current state? Tosses should not be forced to go air to deal with it. This is incorrect. Toss has these twilight council-templar builds that allow up to 5 templar with storm by the 8:40min mark, which allows great mobility as toss can post a few templar in the main to feedback and storm drops, saving time to warp in zealots and stalkers. It isn't that hard at all, i play toss at a diamond level and this thwarts drops very nicely. Don't forget about the mothership core that can photo overcharge and time bomb drops, which is really REALLY awesome if you ask a happy toss player like me  . Practicing builds and micro make for great development and improvement of the game in general, and blizzard should give all players a chance to learn and improve insted of mass patching which is quite disruptive and counterproductive. People need to stop complaning and make the most with what was given to them. Blizzard shouldn't cater to whiners. Imo, blizzard should wait for 3 to 5 months before big balance patches. I personally don't see any big problems with hots as of recently. | ||
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
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Arceus
Vietnam8333 Posts
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Garoodah
United States56 Posts
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Kohoru
Sweden12 Posts
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theseraph
United States100 Posts
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BaDMannerS
Bulgaria57 Posts
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BradenKuntz
Canada59 Posts
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BaDMannerS
Bulgaria57 Posts
On March 23 2013 11:44 sorrowptoss wrote: This is incorrect. Toss has these twilight council-templar builds that allow up to 5 templar with storm by the 8:40min mark, which allows great mobility as toss can post a few templar in the main to feedback and storm drops, saving time to warp in zealots and stalkers. It isn't that hard at all, i play toss at a diamond level and this thwarts drops very nicely. That would be an issue in bronze. Everywhere else people do the drops long before HTs are teched. I would start whining about widow mine drop that either take out 10 workers instantly or stop you from mining an expansion for 1 minute +, if you have no detection, which will be the case.. However, I will wait for a balance patch. I am sure there will be one soon, if the want to fix the game. | ||
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Dismay
United States1180 Posts
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BaDMannerS
Bulgaria57 Posts
On March 25 2013 03:34 Dismay wrote: Just add a mana cost to speed boost or something. This is my understanding too. Teleportvacs are ok, if you are masters and above, but no way to deal with it at your lower level. Every tard can abuse them easily. Add some mines with teleport drops and you are gg by a lower level player. | ||
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tritonice
United States119 Posts
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NotSorry
United States6722 Posts
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lamiller
United States92 Posts
I would be OKAY with oracles strength I they increased build time on stargate or build time of the particular unit. Void rays are boring to watch and are too good. You can nerf void rays but I don't think they should nerf oracle. If you increase build times then you are keepin the units strength but decreasing its effectiveness. This is exactly what they have done with the 1-1-1 so this is not a QQ. | ||
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Seven77
United States11 Posts
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KombatWombat
South Africa77 Posts
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GaliX
Germany380 Posts
On March 18 2013 14:04 ChuCky.Ca wrote: no nerfing plz just buff other races stuff just make the boost use energie / damge the medivac / make unable to move whole boost. I am not saying a hard nerf, just a small thing that makes them more carefully to use | ||
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Knalldi
Germany50 Posts
On March 25 2013 19:56 GaliX wrote: just make the boost use energie / damge the medivac / make unable to move whole boost. I am not saying a hard nerf, just a small thing that makes them more carefully to use I'm in for the energy cost, "Everytime you boost, a marine dies!". It would also make Caduceus-reactor upgrade usefull. And the terran has to see that he has enough energy on the Medivacs to begin with. So good players can use its full, a little more limited potential and not-so-good ones die horribly :D. Everyone wins. | ||
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riceant
Canada54 Posts
The problem with widow mines right now is that there's no hard counter (swarm hosts maybe but they are too vulnerable) | ||
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lamiller
United States92 Posts
On March 25 2013 22:05 Knalldi wrote: I'm in for the energy cost, "Everytime you boost, a marine dies!". It would also make Caduceus-reactor upgrade usefull. And the terran has to see that he has enough energy on the Medivacs to begin with. So good players can use its full, a little more limited potential and not-so-good ones die horribly :D. Everyone wins. Medivacs only come out with 25 energy so how much are you inferring you take away every time it uses it after burners. Also if they made it an upgrade it will literally be never used. Why you may ask? Because production is slowed drastically when medivacs aren't producing 2 at a time. Not to mention if the Terran is only producing one medivac at a time, the terran CANNOT move out at proper timings, and if this is the case that means any timings Terran did have are now gone if they invested into the tech lab. Medivacs are the backbone of the Terran army without medivacs Terran would lose every game to a player of equal skill to them. The only reason Caduceus-reactor isnt used it because of 1. the cost and 2. it requires the starport to be on a tech lab which no high level terran will say is a good thing in prior the 15 min mark. Also teching with Terran is much more difficult as a Terran then any other race. Protoss and Zerg dont have to alter their production to tech. Which is one the main reason why Terran stays one Tier 1 and Tier 2 units for pretty much the entire game until ultra late game. Also if you are a protoss and you aren't building a cannon you are lazy. Every other race has to build some form of turret why shouldn't Protoss. Also I dont get why you guys think Medivacs are problem when mutas are still faster than it and actually attack.. Also don't blame Medivacs for your lack of positioning and greediness. And when you warp in zealots to defend drops and then you complain that the medivac is too fast.. Well damn, if you keep warping in things that don't attack air what do you expect. Honestly Medivacs havent changed that much. Medivacs speed boost just requires both sides to multitask more. Not to mention if you see them babying their drop harass then you are probably able to just kill them because of the lack of macro they had. Also, If you would post any game you want as a reply because you think i am wrong then do it and i will tell you what they did wrong or what they could of done. There are other crazy thoughts I have... How bout applying some aggression to the Terran, instead of letting him drop you. If you want to limit harass then put on some pressure yourself. When you are just sitting in your base til the 16 min mark and do nothing you shouldn't complain when you lose. | ||
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midnight999
United States257 Posts
On March 26 2013 00:13 lamiller wrote: Medivacs only come out with 25 energy so how much are you inferring you take away every time it uses it after burners. Also if they made it an upgrade it will literally be never used. Why you may ask? Because production is slowed drastically when medivacs aren't producing 2 at a time. Not to mention if the Terran is only producing one medivac at a time, the terran CANNOT move out at proper timings, and if this is the case that means any timings Terran did have are now gone if they invested into the tech lab. Medivacs are the backbone of the Terran army without medivacs Terran would lose every game to a player of equal skill to them. The only reason Caduceus-reactor isnt used it because of 1. the cost and 2. it requires the starport to be on a tech lab which no high level terran will say is a good thing in prior the 15 min mark. Also teching with Terran is much more difficult as a Terran then any other race. Protoss and Zerg dont have to alter their production to tech. Which is one the main reason why Terran stays one Tier 1 and Tier 2 units for pretty much the entire game until ultra late game. Also if you are a protoss and you aren't building a cannon you are lazy. Every other race has to build some form of turret why shouldn't Protoss. Also I dont get why you guys think Medivacs are problem when mutas are still faster than it and actually attack.. Also don't blame Medivacs for your lack of positioning and greediness. And when you warp in zealots to defend drops and then you complain that the medivac is too fast.. Well damn, if you keep warping in things that don't attack air what do you expect. Honestly Medivacs havent changed that much. Medivacs speed boost just requires both sides to multitask more. Not to mention if you see them babying their drop harass then you are probably able to just kill them because of the lack of macro they had. Also, If you would post any game you want as a reply because you think i am wrong then do it and i will tell you what they did wrong or what they could of done. There are other crazy thoughts I have... How bout applying some aggression to the Terran, instead of letting him drop you. If you want to limit harass then put on some pressure yourself. When you are just sitting in your base til the 16 min mark and do nothing you shouldn't complain when you lose. Firstly, Medivacs come out with 50 energy, lol. Secondly, this sort of harass should be a choice among a frontal assault with many medivacs or multiple drops with slow medivacs in the early game IMO, but this is debatable. Thirdly, no one is forcing you to build a tech lab for starport by the 10-minute mark. | ||
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Hoodlum
United States350 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
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SaintFrancis
Canada46 Posts
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the.bishOp
25 Posts
If they tweak a BIT the activation time on the widow mines they would be spot on. Void rays are a tad too strong aswell. And fix the hellbats please. | ||
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Xahhk
Canada540 Posts
Then there will be a SC2 is dying thread that you'll post in eventually where you will complain about the direction the game has gone. Calling it now. Save this on a text file. | ||
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Creegz
Canada354 Posts
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Freezd
United States139 Posts
On March 18 2013 18:07 Ackee wrote: I'd say as long as takes before blizzard has figured out how to nerf protoss air play (Void Rays, Oracles) so it becomes weaker but not shit. I really like that protoss got a harass unit but what I don't understand is why it can kill marines. The void ray is just ridic atm, everytime I try to go 1 rax expo (gasless) they just proxxy stargate and 3 gates and just end the game. Example: ROOTLeiya vs (Ragequit)QXC The void ray ATM is a little bit too good. So you're complaining about an all-in timing attack from a Protoss beating a greedy Terran? Care to clarify how this is not supposed to be satisfactory, in terms of game mechanics? The Voidray might be a little too strong but I think you don't quite understand the basics of this game. Aggressive > Greedy. Safe > Aggressive. Greedy > Safe (assuming both players are at a very similar skill level.) That's how this game works, Leiya noticed QXC was being greedy so she capitalized on it by doing a risky build. Now, if QXC did a Safe build vs Leiya's Aggressive build, and QXC lost that means with out a doubt something is not balanced. | ||
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FatNikE
United Kingdom52 Posts
On March 18 2013 11:45 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: I say 2-3 months. Soonest should be after gsl. Despite my complaints of ZvT and ZvP lategame, I do agree the zerg representation wasn't the best at IEM and MLG and the gsl should be a far better gauge of where zerg is on the top end. Why does one race always have to be complaining? Ret did crazy good for a foreigner in IEM and life won the GSL. THERE'S ONLY BEEN TWO TOURNAMENTS FOR HOTS EVER! Where are these complainers coming from? Where were these zergs complaining when terran wasn't even making ro32 in tournaments and sniper was winning GSL? No zerg in top 6 in IEM, but looking at the latter half of 2012, we'd be seeing nothing but zergs in the top 8. If you actually look at the results of IEM, every spot between 6 and 11 is held by a Zerg. This puts even foreigners like Nerchio and Ret ahead of top koreans like MC, Sting, Dream.... STOP COMPLAINING! And MLG... a zerg won. Only this community can be complaining about the balance of a race in these circumstances. If TvZ is imba for Terran in hots, I can't imagine how imba the Zergs must have thought it was in WoL back when Terrans weren't getting ro32 in some tournaments and DEFINATELY weren't winning MLGs... It's like the Queen change made them so used to holding every spot in the ro8, that they can't handle winning MLGs in a way that isn't ZvZ final, or holding every spot from 6-11 instead and having foreigner zergs ahead of top korean P and Ts. | ||
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lamiller
United States92 Posts
On March 26 2013 05:54 jkim91 wrote: Firstly, Medivacs come out with 50 energy, lol. Secondly, this sort of harass should be a choice among a frontal assault with many medivacs or multiple drops with slow medivacs in the early game IMO, but this is debatable. Thirdly, no one is forcing you to build a tech lab for starport by the 10-minute mark. Still. 50 Energy is not that big of a difference.. and I enjoy that you didn't respond to the rest of my comment. 1. you clearly don't understand anything. In order to keep up with protoss and zerg on economy, tech, and production, Terran needs to harrass. DK and Dustin Browder have said this time in and time out. In WoL Drops pretty much did nothing anymore. Drops were almost out of TvP all together because it only took 3 stalkers to thwart any medivac drop. And since Terran HAS to do damage against protoss in order to stay even with so if they are not able to harass the Terran is playing catch up the entire game. Which is an imbalance in itself. Also Protoss had the great task of defending instead of being the aggressor. Have you heard of defenders advantage. You can only take as much damage as your defense allows. That goes for any race and anything period. Also Medivacs aren't killing anything. If you have a bunch of zealot in your base to defend then it doesn't matter the speed of the medivac because you werent able to proper protect your base in the first place. 2. Terran shouldn't be obligated to either do a frontal assault or medivac drops. Terran has to out multitask in order to be successful in a straight on engagement against Protoss because protoss units are much stronger then Terrans. This means that if both the Terran and Protoss were to A-move their army Protoss would win almost every single time as long as they are at relatively the same army supply. If you don't believe me, look at what storm and colossi do to an army if the Terran doesn't micro their army. So getting back to my original point. Medivacs need to be more effective in order to damage against protoss period. If you don't agree with that then you havent been keeping up with the scene at all. Also, imo Medivac speed shouldn't even be an issue. Put units in your base or split up your army until you are ready to move out. Oh God! Putting your army on multiple control groups must be a difficult task for protoss. Honestly, if there was a structure that Terran could put all of its upgrades for each tier of unit I would definitely make that structure. But because putting a tech lab on a starport reduces production by such a significant time that the opportunity cost of putting a tech lab on and researching an upgrade isnt worth it. Like I said ask any Terran progammer and they will say the exact same thing. Obviously I am not talking about the late game where I could easily afford and have time for research. I do not believe Medivacs are a problem. People just keep QQing and they don't want to take the time and learn how to defend which if you do look at a lot of streams, medivacs are doing less and less damage. This is not WoL. Let me make that statement again. This is not WoL. So stop playing WoL. Trust me dude I know the game far better then yourself. | ||
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lamiller
United States92 Posts
On March 27 2013 14:03 Freezd wrote: So you're complaining about an all-in timing attack from a Protoss beating a greedy Terran? Care to clarify how this is not supposed to be satisfactory, in terms of game mechanics? The Voidray might be a little too strong but I think you don't quite understand the basics of this game. Aggressive > Greedy. Safe > Aggressive. Greedy > Safe (assuming both players are at a very similar skill level.) That's how this game works, Leiya noticed QXC was being greedy so she capitalized on it by doing a risky build. Now, if QXC did a Safe build vs Leiya's Aggressive build, and QXC lost that means with out a doubt something is not balanced. If you saw that game QXC was not as greedy as you made it seem. Also, I don't know if you know this, but all builds are should be able to be countered and the player who has to react should be able to make the right decisions to be able to defend. QXC did that. IE, if what you said was the exact for every race, then why did the 1-1-1 get nerfed to oblivion? Yeah.. thats what I thought. | ||
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Wade76
3 Posts
I'm a longway terran, I play a lot since WoL and I'm bad as hell. I can tell as a terran that the game it's more balanced for my race than the WoL experience, now I feel that the losses I take depend more in the skill of my opponent and my own. The good opponent exploit the my mines in his/her own benefit p.e. I need more multitask for handle speedvacs or mines. As I said, I speak as a platinum terran long time gold, now diamond | ||
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MidnightZL
Sweden203 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
It would be a shame to tweak things so soon after release, give it time. Heck, we just revisited Savior's era when no major balance patches happened and Zerg experienced SEVERAL months of poor results. Then a single man reinvented all the things zerg knew to be true but weren't so. | ||
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Spidinko
Slovakia1174 Posts
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
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Fearest
854 Posts
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