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Power Rank 09/18/2011 - Page 8

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
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EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
September 21 2011 00:08 GMT
#141
Jangbi Jangbi~!
RBorin
Profile Joined March 2011
United States40 Posts
September 21 2011 02:07 GMT
#142
On September 21 2011 08:14 Ermac wrote:
Isn't it kind of a contradiction to say JangBi beat Fantasy in "highly convincing fashion" and then go on to say that Fantasy pushed JangBi to his absolute limit?



Not really. Fantasy brought his A-game, but Jangbi responded well to everything that was thrown at him with cool professionalism, which led to a convincing victory even in the face of adversity. There have been games when one player completely dominated the other despite bringing very mediocre play to the game simply because the other player was performing even worse that day. I wouldn't consider those games "convincing victories" even if they were one-sided.
Elo is a system named after its creator, Arpad Elo. It is not an acronym. You don't capitalize it.
Amarxist
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States371 Posts
September 21 2011 03:15 GMT
#143
On one hand, the power rank is so lengthy with many words. It's nice! On the other hand, it's quite foreboding to see something out of the normal, an approaching end. Either way, OSL Finals was awesome. I really hope to see more like that. Go JangBi!
☺ ☻
red4ce
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States7313 Posts
September 21 2011 06:20 GMT
#144
Ah the return of the Brood War power rank. All is right in the world once again. I have no beef with you putting Jangbi in the #1 spot. I haven't been so moved by someone other than Flash winning since Stork's mini resurgence at the beginning of the year. The rest of the power rank is really good too.
hitthat
Profile Joined January 2010
Poland2349 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-21 13:17:28
September 21 2011 09:04 GMT
#145
On September 20 2011 07:36 Malinor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 06:01 KwarK wrote:
You can't honestly believe JangBi is better than Flash. At the end of the day the Power Rank is just who is stronger on a given day in a given game. Who is better at brood war. Who, if they played, would win more. That is undoubtably Flash. He's simply better. JangBi was barely able to beat a terrible Fantasy. Flash is Flash.


Yeah, Fantasy is such a horrible player. And Jangbi played not well to. Beating the two top best TvPers in series back to back is only because they both played terrible, all the other protosses can do it to, as you could easily see during the last couple of years.
Your analysis of Jangbi's games in this OSL (this very OSL with 2 protoss in total) actually annoys the hell out of me. I can hardly wait for your recap of the finals. You are just searching for flaws and you will of course again find plenty of them, I am sure.


Forgive him. He's British. Brits are good at everything, you know. With the exception of cooking and StarCraft offcourse

Edit: maybe Midian had some skill ;P
Shameless BroodWar separatistic, elitist, fanaticaly devoted puritan fanboy.
Ermac
Profile Joined June 2011
336 Posts
September 21 2011 09:24 GMT
#146
On September 21 2011 11:07 RBorin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 08:14 Ermac wrote:
Isn't it kind of a contradiction to say JangBi beat Fantasy in "highly convincing fashion" and then go on to say that Fantasy pushed JangBi to his absolute limit?



Not really. Fantasy brought his A-game, but Jangbi responded well to everything that was thrown at him with cool professionalism, which led to a convincing victory even in the face of adversity. There have been games when one player completely dominated the other despite bringing very mediocre play to the game simply because the other player was performing even worse that day. I wouldn't consider those games "convincing victories" even if they were one-sided.


Well, according to KwarK, Jangbi "barely beat a terrible Fantasy". As far as I know he's one of the most knowledgeable persons on this site in terms of strategy, game/player analysis, etc.
"Blind aggressiveness would destroy the attack itself, not the defense." - Carl von Clausewitz
gn0m
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden302 Posts
September 21 2011 11:52 GMT
#147
Overall a worthy PR although I think Bisu should be higher (all time proleague record). I also expected by.sun to make an appearance.
-_-
icclown
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Denmark270 Posts
September 21 2011 12:03 GMT
#148
How/where do I sign up for fantasy sc?
He who controls the past commands the future, He who commands the future, conquers the past. BUFFER INTO GG
Taekwon
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8155 Posts
September 21 2011 12:40 GMT
#149
On that note, where are the previous prs?
▲ ▲ ▲
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
September 21 2011 15:33 GMT
#150
On September 21 2011 21:40 Taekwon wrote:
On that note, where are the previous prs?

www.teamliquid.net/powerrank
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
saltywet
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Hong Kong1316 Posts
September 21 2011 15:43 GMT
#151
On September 21 2011 18:04 hitthat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 07:36 Malinor wrote:
On September 20 2011 06:01 KwarK wrote:
You can't honestly believe JangBi is better than Flash. At the end of the day the Power Rank is just who is stronger on a given day in a given game. Who is better at brood war. Who, if they played, would win more. That is undoubtably Flash. He's simply better. JangBi was barely able to beat a terrible Fantasy. Flash is Flash.


Yeah, Fantasy is such a horrible player. And Jangbi played not well to. Beating the two top best TvPers in series back to back is only because they both played terrible, all the other protosses can do it to, as you could easily see during the last couple of years.
Your analysis of Jangbi's games in this OSL (this very OSL with 2 protoss in total) actually annoys the hell out of me. I can hardly wait for your recap of the finals. You are just searching for flaws and you will of course again find plenty of them, I am sure.


Forgive him. He's British. Brits are good at everything, you know. With the exception of cooking and StarCraft offcourse

Edit: maybe Midian had some skill ;P


why was jesus not born in poland? + Show Spoiler +
because they couldn't find three wise men


fantasy had a whole extra week to practice, help from his coaches and SKT protosses and fucking imba strategies, and STILL lost. he's fucking terrible
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-21 15:54:30
September 21 2011 15:54 GMT
#152
I agree with Kwark. The only game that I thought was decently played by both player in the final was game 3. In every other one, huge mistakes were made. Hope Kwark will write his recap.
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-21 16:01:03
September 21 2011 16:00 GMT
#153
On September 21 2011 18:24 Ermac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 11:07 RBorin wrote:
On September 21 2011 08:14 Ermac wrote:
Isn't it kind of a contradiction to say JangBi beat Fantasy in "highly convincing fashion" and then go on to say that Fantasy pushed JangBi to his absolute limit?



Not really. Fantasy brought his A-game, but Jangbi responded well to everything that was thrown at him with cool professionalism, which led to a convincing victory even in the face of adversity. There have been games when one player completely dominated the other despite bringing very mediocre play to the game simply because the other player was performing even worse that day. I wouldn't consider those games "convincing victories" even if they were one-sided.


Well, according to KwarK, Jangbi "barely beat a terrible Fantasy". As far as I know he's one of the most knowledgeable persons on this site in terms of strategy, game/player analysis, etc.


Look, different people have different opinions. For example, the post-match grades from FOMOS for Fantasy was B+, A+, B+, A, A. For Jangbi A+, B, A+, B, S. The people giving out these grades are not exactly noobs either.
Meh
Jongl0
Profile Joined June 2011
631 Posts
September 21 2011 16:23 GMT
#154
Can't really complain on the ranking.
VGhost
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3621 Posts
September 21 2011 17:04 GMT
#155
On September 22 2011 00:43 saltywet wrote:
fantasy had a whole extra week to practice, help from his coaches and SKT protosses and fucking imba strategies, and STILL lost. he's fucking terrible


There's no way a "fucking terrible" player has an OSL win and three silvers. That's ridiculous on the face of it. Even more, with slightly better luck fantasy could very well have four golds: I mean, what kind of terrible draw is it to have to play Stork, Jaedong, Stork, Jangbi, even in a final? Sure, Flash has a golden mouse: yes, he beat Stork and Jaedong - but his second medal came against Movie, and he lost to Effort. (Was Flash "terrible" when he screwed that series up? Mindgamed, yes; therefore outplayed, yes; terrible? No.) Jaedong has a golden mouse: yes he beat Stork and fantasy, but his third gold came against a clearly outmatched Yarnc. July has a golden mouse - against Reach, Goodfriend, and BeSt, and he lost to Nada and oov. So yeah. fantasy's OSL record stacks up favorably against all of those, except of course that he doesn't actually have the titles to show for his level of accomplishment.

Sure: fantasy could have played better. On the other hand, since he took the series to five games, he obviously "could have" won, but he didn't. Was his decision-making perfect? No - but neither was Jangbi's (or he wouldn't have lost two games). In fact, nobody's perfect. But was fantasy playing at a ggaemo or Jaehoon fail-level (with apologies to both of those players who have dramatically improved)? No, no, no.

I don't understand all the fantasy hate. He's not Flash, but nobody is, and Jangbi beat Flash too. fantasy's the 2nd best TvP by reputation and ELO; in the other matchups he's 4th TvZ ELO (after Flash, Light, and Leta) and he wrecked Hydra; in TvT ELO he's 3rd after Flash and Sea. fantasy obviously screwed up the series in that he didn't win, but I don't think any other Terran would have taken Jangbi to five games.

Or is it actually Jangbi hate that's reflecting onto fantasy because he's the handy scapegoat for losing? Because that, really, makes even less sense. Jangbi didn't play a perfect game either, but he won what he had to win all the way, and Game 5 was a decisive refutation of fantasy's play.
#4427 || I am not going to scan a ferret.
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
September 21 2011 17:45 GMT
#156
Fantasy's 3 OSL losses were all 2-3 against players who are very strong vT. Okay, Jangbi's PvT ELO right now is dog crap, but that's because his ELO score still has not recovered from his huuuuuge slump. His play against Flash was top notch, even if you want to doubt his play against Fantasy. Not to mention the way he's demolished every other Terran he has faced in one-sided fashion since his slump ended.

Since July was brought up, I feel inclined to point out that while July in his prime won 2 OSL's and got 2 silvers, both wins being tense 3-2's and both losses being humiliating 3-0's. And he was the great Zerg hope. His fans called him "bonjwa" long before the BW community as a whole accepted the term. (Although the BW community as a whole does not consider him bonjwa and never did.) Of course his 3rd OSL win came years later and he played well there, but that is a different story -- one I have discussed at length in the past.

Fantasy and Jangbi both had solid, solid OSL runs.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
September 21 2011 19:31 GMT
#157
I've never understood anyone who said Fantasy was bad. The guy is really fucking good. You don't play 4 OSL finals by being bad. And as someone above me mentioned, he's got a lot of silvers because he runs into S-class vT'ers in finals. No Terran would have been favored against Stork (2008), no player at all against Jaedong (2009), and yet he took both players to their limits even when he was practically a rookie. He decimated Stork in the previous OSL --- remember what a tear Stork had been on? And against Jangbi, well, say what you will but Flash lost to Jangbi too, so whatever.

Basically Fantasy kicks ass and whatever crazy fail moments he has, he more than makes up for them by being awesome the rest of the time.

And nobody --- I mean nobody --- plays as entertaining a Bo5 as Fantasy.

GGPlay vs Fantasy --- eye-opening series
Stork vs Fantasy, Incruit 2008 --- edge of seat series
Fantasy vs Bisu --- eye-opening series
Jaedong vs Fantasy, the first time --- edge of fucking seat, man.
Jaedong vs Fantasy, the second time --- more edge of seat
Fantasy vs Flash --- out of this world amazing series
Fantasy vs Hydra --- very entertaining, mostly I remember G1 as being the ballsiest sunken break of all time
Fantasy vs Jangbi --- two words: NAIL BITER

See a trend? Fantasy plays the most entertaining Bo5's of any progamer, hands down. Especially when he just barely loses
May the BeSt man win.
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
September 21 2011 20:42 GMT
#158
I think part of the issue with Fantasy is that his multitasking seems bad when compared to Flash, and his timing is very good compared to any other Terran, but Flash has this crazy ability to spread himself out without spreading himself thin, which lets him get better information to choose the optimal timing.

Fantasy spends a lot more of his energy on his vulture control and honestly it shows. His vulture use is better than Flash's unquestionably. I strongly feel that anyone thinking otherwise is not watching Starcraft. Unfortunately Fantasy will sometimes slip in his macro and/or miss a supply depot while he's controlling vultures. Flash would rather have them do little damage so long as he keeps his macro up. Flash uses them completely differently. Sometimes you'll see a lone vulture scout a position and it's amazing the way the moment he sees units with it he instantaneously responds and it runs away, sometimes only getting hit once or twice, but let's be real... how many units does Flash normally kill with vulture harassment? Sometimes a lot, but usually it's his push that's the real danger. Fantasy wreaks havoc with his vultures, but sometimes it's just not enough havoc.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
Telcontar
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom16710 Posts
September 21 2011 22:09 GMT
#159
The Dragon hath returned!
Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-22 00:58:22
September 22 2011 00:58 GMT
#160
great power rank and i agree with almost everything. except for this little part about flash:

Yes, he lost to JangBi after winning the first set in a best of three. However, had he won I definitely think that regardless of his hand injury, Flash would have taken yet another OSL.


no, just no. think back to the insane trainwreck of a series that was the bigfile msl semifinals between fantasy and flash. think back to their ridiculous proleague match in i think round 2 or 3 of this pl season. account for fantasy's incredible ability to drag out games. there is absolutely no chance in hell that flash could have won a tvt bo5 against fantasy with an injured wrist. fanta would simply have had to drag out the first 2 games and flash's wrist would have prevented him from playing at any level that comes even remotely close to fanta's.

flash is clearly the superior of the 2 players, but fantasy has shown again and again that he pushes flash to the limit if he is prepared. with an injured arm, flash would simply not be able to go to this limit.
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
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