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Power Rank 07/01/2011 - Page 22

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
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Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
July 16 2011 04:50 GMT
#421
This ranking was made after the semifinals.

And I don't understand this comment about setting a bad precedent. The precedent IS to wait. Deliberately waiting for a key event has occurred at least 20 times in the history of the ranking. lol

Depending on next month's schedule, waiting probably does make more sense anyway. As I have said, as others have said, the progaming leagues in BW do not run on a monthly schedule. One month is an entirely arbitrary amount of time, chosen based on whatever medieval Christian mumbo jumbo produced the gregorian calendar system, not based on anything related to BW in the slightest.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
July 16 2011 04:52 GMT
#422
I think it could be a good decision to wait as well.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5617 Posts
July 16 2011 05:00 GMT
#423
Me too. I prefer that to an uninformed ranking.
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
aupstar
Profile Joined June 2007
Australia912 Posts
July 16 2011 11:17 GMT
#424
On July 16 2011 11:53 ]343[ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2011 09:04 aupstar wrote:
On July 16 2011 08:18 setzer wrote:
On July 16 2011 08:11 aupstar wrote:
On July 15 2011 22:26 Mortality wrote:
First of all, if PL playoffs end August 6 it may make sense for Flamewheel to wait. I know that a number of people here are Nazis about monthly delivery of ranking, SCBW progaming is NOT structured on a monthly schedule.

Second, it will depend a lot on HOW Bisu plays as opposed to just his stats alone.

Third, Bisu has proven himself enough in recent history that if he plays well he will be on the ranking.



I see no circumstances AT ALL in which Bisu would drop below #5 if he 2-0's his MST group convincingly and carries his team to gold. Most likely such results would move him up to top 3. Possibly all the way to the top depending on exactly how things happen. Too many variables to say exactly. A lot will depend on Flash/JD/Hydra/Zero. Those 4 and Bisu are the only players I see in contention of a top 5 spot right if the ranking were made right now.


I don't think it's fair to wait...the PL finals should be counted in the following month's rankings..

Otherwise it sets a bad precedent for finals in the future where we may end up waiting 'till mid/late month just to see the results before making a judgement on how good a player may be.

Lets keep it on time and be a proper representation of how the players faired in the previous month..


Um, it wouldn't be the first time a PR writer waits for an important series to end. There is a difference between waiting for two weeks and 6 days, which brings on my next point ....

There has never been a specific date PR is released. It has been different for many different writers. Furthermore, this isn't a monthly ranking, but a ranking that comes out every month. Flamewheel considers past performances to help make his ranking. If an important series is going to determine two spots (like a possible CJ vs SK finals; Hydra vs Bisu) it simply makes sense to wait for that series if it has an effect on the top spot.


Fair point but it would make the next month's ranking pretty boring no? lol

I've always considered the PR as more of a monthly ranking but I guess it's up to the writer and how much free time he has to determine what days to count and what results to consider for the rank. Though I must say, it's rather inconsistent to consider 30 days for the rank one month and then 23 days the next given all the games that are/aren't being considered in those 7 days.

It really makes you think whether you can compare a player on the PR from one month to the next.


pretty sure this rank was made after the MSL finals, for example. i agree that next month's rank will be boring and crappy other than OSL, but such is life.


This month's rank was a timely July 1st and it encompassed games that occurred in the previous month (i.e., June).

The MSL finals were played on the 11th of June..The writer did not wait until the 11th of the month to publish the previous PR rankings.

It's all good and well to include games well into a month, but then where do you draw the line exactly?

I still firmly believe that having a cutoff date for games to include in the PR allows for the drawing of fair comparisons from month to month.
Firebats, the natural enemy of octozerg
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
July 16 2011 11:28 GMT
#425
When in life is anything ever fair? Why do you buy into such a myth?! Even if you set things for exactly 1 month, each month has a different number of games played.

Also, it was after SEMI-finals that the last ranking was released. And it made perfect sense to wait.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
DarkMatter_
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada1774 Posts
July 16 2011 12:24 GMT
#426
At this rate, I can see Jaedong and Zero taking the #1 and #2 spots.
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5617 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-16 15:59:04
July 16 2011 13:05 GMT
#427
On July 16 2011 21:24 DarkMatter_ wrote:
At this rate, I can see Jaedong and Zero taking the #1 and #2 spots.

Flash has only played one game in which he didn't look his normal brutal self imo (the game vs Shuttle). It is not enough to demote him quite yet, even though Jeadong should be a strong contender. We should keep in mind though that post season games, and espescially ace games are very difficult to win as consistantly as other matches. Yesterday Zero plyed very well, but things also turned out his way (not that I'm saying he was lucky).
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
beachbeachy
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States509 Posts
July 16 2011 13:34 GMT
#428
On July 16 2011 21:24 DarkMatter_ wrote:
At this rate, I can see Jaedong and Zero taking the #1 and #2 spots.


Jaedong isn't going to play any proleague games this month. In addition, he's in a 100% zvz group in the OSL.

Zero isn't even duel leaguing.

As long as flash advances in the OSL, I'd keep him at first. If he flops, the spot should be given to A. Jaedong, IF he advances in the OSL, or B. Zero, depending on how far he takes his team into the playoffs (if he does).
Dream no small dreams for they have no power to move the hearts of men. - Goethe
aupstar
Profile Joined June 2007
Australia912 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-16 14:51:53
July 16 2011 14:49 GMT
#429
On July 16 2011 20:28 Mortality wrote:
When in life is anything ever fair? Why do you buy into such a myth?! Even if you set things for exactly 1 month, each month has a different number of games played.

Also, it was after SEMI-finals that the last ranking was released. And it made perfect sense to wait.


Wow mortality...no need to get heated..

We're discussing something quite trivial in nature..

You do bring up an excellent point though, the games are unevenly distributed.

Though, I still don't see why you can't just wait a month for something to be considered in the next PR..

Anyway, seems a lot of you have similar opinions on the issue, so we'll just leave it at that.

In the end though I still think it's at the PR writers discretion what he/she decides to include.

Regardless, I look forward to reading it whenever it may come out next..
Firebats, the natural enemy of octozerg
DarkMatter_
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada1774 Posts
July 16 2011 14:51 GMT
#430
Nevermind, I just watched his games against SK and Zero. He played superbly.

It's kinda sad that even with his reduced practice time, he still seems to be the only terran capable of playing at an S-class level.
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
July 16 2011 14:52 GMT
#431
That argument would be correct if this were normal PL and not playoff. How Flash does in the PL playoffs matters a lot, especially in ace match scenarios against one of the chief rivals for rank 1.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
July 16 2011 16:48 GMT
#432
On July 16 2011 23:51 DarkMatter_ wrote:
Nevermind, I just watched his games against SK and Zero. He played superbly.

It's kinda sad that even with his reduced practice time, he still seems to be the only terran capable of playing at an S-class level.


Yeah, Terran race is the hardest race to play. Its not like they won the majority of the tournament out there or anything.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
July 16 2011 17:47 GMT
#433
On July 17 2011 01:48 Xiphos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2011 23:51 DarkMatter_ wrote:
Nevermind, I just watched his games against SK and Zero. He played superbly.

It's kinda sad that even with his reduced practice time, he still seems to be the only terran capable of playing at an S-class level.


Yeah, Terran race is the hardest race to play. Its not like they won the majority of the tournament out there or anything.


OSL/MSL finalists since 2008:+ Show Spoiler +

Terran
(T)Flash 6-2
(T)Fantasy 1-2
(T)fOrGG 1-0

Zerg
(Z)Jaedong 4-4
(Z)July 1-0
(Z)Luxury 1-0
(Z)Calm 1-0
(Z)Hydra 1-0
(Z)EffOrt 1-0
(Z)Kwanro 0-1
(Z)YellOw[ArnC] 0-1
(Z)great 0-1
(Z)ZerO 0-1

Protoss
(P)Stork 1-3
(P)Bisu 1-0
(P)Kal 0-1
(P)BeSt 0-1
(P)Movie 0-1
(P)JangBi 0-2


OSL/MSL champions since 2008:+ Show Spoiler +

Terran:
(T)Flash x6
(T)fOrGG (retired) x1
(T)Fantasy (aka (T)Oov) x1

Zerg:
(Z)Jaedong x5 (really x4 since 2008)
(Z)July x1 (retired)
(Z)Luxury x1 (gone)
(Z)EffOrt x1 (returning)
(Z)Calm x1
(Z)Hydra x1

Protoss:
(P)Bisu x1
(P)Stork x1


There are not a lot of S-class terrans.
Writer
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
July 16 2011 18:10 GMT
#434
On July 17 2011 02:47 ]343[ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2011 01:48 Xiphos wrote:
On July 16 2011 23:51 DarkMatter_ wrote:
Nevermind, I just watched his games against SK and Zero. He played superbly.

It's kinda sad that even with his reduced practice time, he still seems to be the only terran capable of playing at an S-class level.


Yeah, Terran race is the hardest race to play. Its not like they won the majority of the tournament out there or anything.


OSL/MSL finalists since 2008:+ Show Spoiler +

Terran
(T)Flash 6-2
(T)Fantasy 1-2
(T)fOrGG 1-0

Zerg
(Z)Jaedong 4-4
(Z)July 1-0
(Z)Luxury 1-0
(Z)Calm 1-0
(Z)Hydra 1-0
(Z)EffOrt 1-0
(Z)Kwanro 0-1
(Z)YellOw[ArnC] 0-1
(Z)great 0-1
(Z)ZerO 0-1

Protoss
(P)Stork 1-3
(P)Bisu 1-0
(P)Kal 0-1
(P)BeSt 0-1
(P)Movie 0-1
(P)JangBi 0-2


OSL/MSL champions since 2008:+ Show Spoiler +

Terran:
(T)Flash x6
(T)fOrGG (retired) x1
(T)Fantasy (aka (T)Oov) x1

Zerg:
(Z)Jaedong x5 (really x4 since 2008)
(Z)July x1 (retired)
(Z)Luxury x1 (gone)
(Z)EffOrt x1 (returning)
(Z)Calm x1
(Z)Hydra x1

Protoss:
(P)Bisu x1
(P)Stork x1


There are not a lot of S-class terrans.


I wrote "Yeah, Terran race is the hardest race to play."!
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
July 16 2011 18:19 GMT
#435
On July 17 2011 02:47 ]343[ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2011 01:48 Xiphos wrote:
On July 16 2011 23:51 DarkMatter_ wrote:
Nevermind, I just watched his games against SK and Zero. He played superbly.

It's kinda sad that even with his reduced practice time, he still seems to be the only terran capable of playing at an S-class level.


Yeah, Terran race is the hardest race to play. Its not like they won the majority of the tournament out there or anything.


OSL/MSL finalists since 2008:+ Show Spoiler +

Terran
(T)Flash 6-2
(T)Fantasy 1-2
(T)fOrGG 1-0

Zerg
(Z)Jaedong 4-4
(Z)July 1-0
(Z)Luxury 1-0
(Z)Calm 1-0
(Z)Hydra 1-0
(Z)EffOrt 1-0
(Z)Kwanro 0-1
(Z)YellOw[ArnC] 0-1
(Z)great 0-1
(Z)ZerO 0-1

Protoss
(P)Stork 1-3
(P)Bisu 1-0
(P)Kal 0-1
(P)BeSt 0-1
(P)Movie 0-1
(P)JangBi 0-2


OSL/MSL champions since 2008:+ Show Spoiler +

Terran:
(T)Flash x6
(T)fOrGG (retired) x1
(T)Fantasy (aka (T)Oov) x1

Zerg:
(Z)Jaedong x5 (really x4 since 2008)
(Z)July x1 (retired)
(Z)Luxury x1 (gone)
(Z)EffOrt x1 (returning)
(Z)Calm x1
(Z)Hydra x1

Protoss:
(P)Bisu x1
(P)Stork x1


There are not a lot of S-class terrans.

So why is 2008 the cutoff point? Are you sure you're not cherry picking to warp statistics to prove a point?
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
Kyuukyuu
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada6263 Posts
July 16 2011 22:08 GMT
#436
But his post has statistics! Those can't lie, you know.
swanized
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada2480 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-16 23:31:00
July 16 2011 22:34 GMT
#437
On July 17 2011 03:19 Lightwip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2011 02:47 ]343[ wrote:
On July 17 2011 01:48 Xiphos wrote:
On July 16 2011 23:51 DarkMatter_ wrote:
Nevermind, I just watched his games against SK and Zero. He played superbly.

It's kinda sad that even with his reduced practice time, he still seems to be the only terran capable of playing at an S-class level.


Yeah, Terran race is the hardest race to play. Its not like they won the majority of the tournament out there or anything.


OSL/MSL finalists since 2008:+ Show Spoiler +

Terran
(T)Flash 6-2
(T)Fantasy 1-2
(T)fOrGG 1-0

Zerg
(Z)Jaedong 4-4
(Z)July 1-0
(Z)Luxury 1-0
(Z)Calm 1-0
(Z)Hydra 1-0
(Z)EffOrt 1-0
(Z)Kwanro 0-1
(Z)YellOw[ArnC] 0-1
(Z)great 0-1
(Z)ZerO 0-1

Protoss
(P)Stork 1-3
(P)Bisu 1-0
(P)Kal 0-1
(P)BeSt 0-1
(P)Movie 0-1
(P)JangBi 0-2


OSL/MSL champions since 2008:+ Show Spoiler +

Terran:
(T)Flash x6
(T)fOrGG (retired) x1
(T)Fantasy (aka (T)Oov) x1

Zerg:
(Z)Jaedong x5 (really x4 since 2008)
(Z)July x1 (retired)
(Z)Luxury x1 (gone)
(Z)EffOrt x1 (returning)
(Z)Calm x1
(Z)Hydra x1

Protoss:
(P)Bisu x1
(P)Stork x1


There are not a lot of S-class terrans.

So why is 2008 the cutoff point? Are you sure you're not cherry picking to warp statistics to prove a point?

well 2008 marks the start of the modern era I believe (with savior's fall and Jaedong/Flash starting to dominate the scene and bringing many innovations to the game)
Writer
Mumei
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States270 Posts
July 16 2011 23:10 GMT
#438
On July 17 2011 07:34 swanized wrote:well 2008 marks the start of the modern era I believe (with savior's fall and Jaedong/Flash starting to dominate the scene and bring many innovations to the game)


Jaedong became #1 Zerg in KeSPA on January 2008 and has been ever since then (43 months), so I suppose that works.
sixfour
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
England11062 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-17 04:06:35
July 17 2011 04:03 GMT
#439
On July 17 2011 08:10 Mumei wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2011 07:34 swanized wrote:well 2008 marks the start of the modern era I believe (with savior's fall and Jaedong/Flash starting to dominate the scene and bring many innovations to the game)


Jaedong became #1 Zerg in KeSPA on January 2008 and has been ever since then (43 months), so I suppose that works.


did hydra not usurp him for like a month recently?

never mind i'm obviously mistaken
p: stats, horang2, free, jangbi z: soulkey, zero, shine, hydra t: leta, hiya, sea
Mumei
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States270 Posts
July 17 2011 04:48 GMT
#440
As you said, you were mistaken. However, Hydra has gotten increasingly closer in the last few months:

May - 248.2 Point Margin
June - 138.7 Point Margin
July - 72.7 Point Margin

I think this is the first time Jaedong has been in real danger of losing his spot since first taking it.
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