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On May 15 2010 18:23 Cpadolf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2010 14:20 StylishVODs wrote:It seems odd that some jaedongfans are eager to come to the conclusion that being in both leagues drasically affected the outcome of jaedong vs calm, while not being so eager to accept the same concept for flash vs jaedong in last msl  or this for that matter. Jaedong met Calm and Fantasy on consecutive days, while Flash had 6 days between Movie and Jaedong. I accept that it had an impact that Jaedong had more time to practice than Flash, but there is a pretty big difference. Of course, Flash had a similar situation this season and he handled it fine (though he met MVP and Pure instead of the #2/3 Zerg and the #1/2 Terran).
Don't forget Pl finals. JD had to prepare for five games in the finals.
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yeah jaedong's schedule then was way harder than flash's, but i expect flash will be able to perform in the msl finals this time.
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Wth you guys are talking about?
Jaedong had a huge advabtage over Flash for 2 reasons.
1. Flash was playing shitloads of games which is really tiring. If you don;t' think so, read his past interviews in which he states that fans really underestimate the amount of stress and effort it takes to play TV games.
2. More importantly Flash was playing only TvZ whole month. BoX series against Jaedong, Zero, Calm and Kwanro. Add to this 2 games in porleague he playes against hero and Calm. Jaedong had shitloads of material to study Flash while Flash had pretty much no material to study Jaedong.
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On May 15 2010 18:35 Lebesgue wrote:
Wth you guys are talking about?
Jaedong had a huge advabtage over Flash for 2 reasons.
1. Flash was playing shitloads of games which is really tiring. If you don;t' think so, read his past interviews in which he states that fans really underestimate the amount of stress and effort it takes to play TV games.
2. More importantly Flash was playing only TvZ whole month. BoX series against Jaedong, Zero, Calm and Kwanro. Add to this 2 games in porleague he playes against hero and Calm. Jaedong had shitloads of material to study Flash while Flash had pretty much no material to study Jaedong.
No one is denying this?
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JD had maybe the toughest schedule ever with the back to back games... but I still think it was the free agency that was the most difficult part of it.
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Last year, Jaedong had:
-Proleague Grand Finals, playing two matches and THREE ace matches against SKT1, the strongest pro team, with two potential aces for each ace match. (Fantasy's TvZ was unreliable but also unpredictable and deadly, while Bisu's PvZ was of course the best in the world.)
-Bo5 against Fantasy for OSL semifinals
-Bo5 against Calm for OSL semifinals
-Free Agency fight between his parents and his parent-away-from-parents.
Yes, that IS harder than preparing for OSL and MSL finals while heading a team in Proleague Round 2, and had Jaedong swept the field, we wouldn't be having Flash Bonjwa talk today. Jaedong came as close as Flash to winning dual leagues, under harsher circumstances, but missed out on the dual appearance because he met his MSL challenger in the semis rather than the finals.
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On May 15 2010 19:34 Severedevil wrote:
Yes, that IS harder than preparing for OSL and MSL finals while heading a team in Proleague Round 2, and had Jaedong swept the field, we wouldn't be having Flash Bonjwa talk today. Jaedong came as close as Flash to winning dual leagues, under harsher circumstances, but missed out on the dual appearance because he met his MSL challenger in the semis rather than the finals.
I don't see why you have to compare their workload.
The point made was that it's harder preparing for both leagues than for one, and after last MSL finals it did seem like most people still don't understand this.
Jaedong said this himself in a recent interview where he mentioned that he is so relaxed right now because he only have to prepare for one league.
And to say that jaedong was as close as flash to winning dual.... Flash has been in dual finals twice, jaedong has never been in dual finals so thats simply wrong however you bend it.
And we have this flash bonjwa talk today because he's 80+% winratio for over a year now and in both finals again. I don't see how that could have changed.
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On May 15 2010 19:34 Severedevil wrote:
Yes, that IS harder than preparing for OSL and MSL finals while heading a team in Proleague Round 2, and had Jaedong swept the field, we wouldn't be having Flash Bonjwa talk today. Jaedong came as close as Flash to winning dual leagues, under harsher circumstances, but missed out on the dual appearance because he met his MSL challenger in the semis rather than the finals.
No he didn't. Jaedong never made it into dual finals. Are you living in fanboy land?
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United States10328 Posts
On May 15 2010 20:00 J1.au wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2010 19:34 Severedevil wrote:
Yes, that IS harder than preparing for OSL and MSL finals while heading a team in Proleague Round 2, and had Jaedong swept the field, we wouldn't be having Flash Bonjwa talk today. Jaedong came as close as Flash to winning dual leagues, under harsher circumstances, but missed out on the dual appearance because he met his MSL challenger in the semis rather than the finals. No he didn't. Jaedong never made it into dual finals. Are you living in fanboy land?
he's saying that jaedong met what should have been his strongest opponent in the semis instead of the finals, so it's "equivalent to a finals"
which isn't really true, but that's what i think he's trying to say...
still, back-to-back dual finals is a wtfhacks kind of thing
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Yeah that's my guess too, but you can't reason that way.
not at all.
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Flash's Bo5 statistics:
vP 9-1
vZ 3-4
vT 3-1
Wow I never knew that not counting the losses to JD Flash's bo5 record is as scary as JD's.
Those two are really something else.
Jaedong's Bo5 statistics:
vP 7-1
vZ 2-1
vT 10-1
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On May 16 2010 01:48 SuperArc wrote:
Flash's Bo5 statistics:
vP 9-1
vZ 3-4
vT 3-1
Wow I never knew that not counting the losses to JD Flash's bo5 record is as scary as JD's.
Those two are really something else.
Wow JD is kryptonite. And in one of the "weak" (and his weakest) MU too. Jesus he is good...
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On May 16 2010 02:15 Elroi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2010 01:48 SuperArc wrote:
Flash's Bo5 statistics:
vP 9-1
vZ 3-4
vT 3-1
Wow I never knew that not counting the losses to JD Flash's bo5 record is as scary as JD's.
Those two are really something else. Wow JD is kryptonite. And in one of the "weak" (and his weakest) MU too. Jesus he is good...
Yeah, Flash's strongest (at least his most confident one) vs JD's weakest MU.
While JD will never ever will have Flash's consistency we all certainly know his name "Legend Killer" is not without reason.
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Flash's strongest (and probably most confident) matchup right now is TvP. He just doesn't lose games, ever.
His TvZ, even in the prime of the last OSL run, still dropped a game to Calm & Kwanro in the respective bo5's
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On May 16 2010 03:18 nodule wrote:
Flash's strongest (and probably most confident) matchup right now is TvP. He just doesn't lose games, ever.
His TvZ, even in the prime of the last OSL run, still dropped a game to Calm & Kwanro in the respective bo5's
Yeah, but Flash has stated in every of his interviews that TvZ is his most confident one.
But yeah I always thought TvP is his best matchup (except during the time where he just turtled off 2-3 bases and waited for the dragons to mass expand against him)
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On May 16 2010 03:25 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2010 03:18 nodule wrote:
Flash's strongest (and probably most confident) matchup right now is TvP. He just doesn't lose games, ever.
His TvZ, even in the prime of the last OSL run, still dropped a game to Calm & Kwanro in the respective bo5's Yeah, but Flash has stated in every of his interviews that TvZ is his most confident one. But yeah I always thought TvP is his best matchup (except during the time where he just turtled off 2-3 bases and waited for the dragons to mass expand against him)
Probably a really big difference when you practice with Violet and Stats than when you practice with Firefist and Hoejja.
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It makes little difference who you're playing against usually, but more who's helping you.
Like July helped STX zergs for awhile, and boxer and iloveoov continued the terran lineage somewhat.
But SKT Zergs are bad, same with Hwaseung Protosses.
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The only bo5's Flash has lost since he became a "top player" were to:
- JD x3 (MSL, GOM, MSL, though the first MSL was still before Flash was actually considered a top player and JD was heavily favored - that series actually opened peoples' eyes to Flash's skill in a lot of ways).
- ForGG (haha)
Similarly the only bo5's JD has lost since he became a "top player" (after the Rock debacle basically) were to:
- ForGG (haha)
- Calm
I don't think it's really fair to count JD's loss to:
- the Rock (well maybe you should because it's the Rock...)
Or Flash's losses to:
- GGPlay (OSL semis, Flash was 14 years old and had literally just became a licensed pro 3 months earlier, still only lost 2-3, GGPlay ended up winning that OSL)
- Stork (3rd place match from that same OSL, still 14 years old, Stork was a top P at the time and rolled him with Carriers 3 straight games ... this created Flash's reputation for being "weak to Carriers" until he annihilated this reputation and Carriers in general with the legendary double Armory build)
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It's hilarious to see that most of Flash's statistical failings come from when he was new, and that's only because he was so damn good when he was new that he GOT to Bo5 series.
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On May 16 2010 03:57 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2010 03:25 SuperArc wrote:On May 16 2010 03:18 nodule wrote:
Flash's strongest (and probably most confident) matchup right now is TvP. He just doesn't lose games, ever.
His TvZ, even in the prime of the last OSL run, still dropped a game to Calm & Kwanro in the respective bo5's Yeah, but Flash has stated in every of his interviews that TvZ is his most confident one. But yeah I always thought TvP is his best matchup (except during the time where he just turtled off 2-3 bases and waited for the dragons to mass expand against him) Probably a really big difference when you practice with Violet and Stats than when you practice with Firefist and Hoejja.
I think that's why Flash believes his TvP is weak. He often mentions that he losses a lot during practice to Stats and Violet. And I can imagine he just sweeps through the KT Zergs. But I also guess that he practices a lot with people outside of his team so I guess he can judge his TvZ quite well.
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EPT
