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On May 02 2010 01:39 iamho wrote:
power rank= place where flash fans congregate to orgasm at flash's performance then rage at anyone who insults kt
edit: forgg is definitely worse than killer, he has a 28% and 36% winrate against terrans and protosses this year, yeah he can bash zergs but so can every other terran
hey man it's also a place where bitter anti-fans can troll fans of Flash and KT then complain incessantly and hypocritically when they get defensive.
High horse, no one belongs on it in these parts.
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Every team would be a lot worse if you took away their best player. KT would lose the most because Flash is better than every other team's best player. Both facts are obvious. Where is this discussion going?
I think we should see Midas on here somewhere. My favorite T1 terran! (Yes he still is a T1 terran!)
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On May 01 2010 22:17 adelarge wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2010 20:18 SuperArc wrote:On May 01 2010 20:08 adelarge wrote:On May 01 2010 18:21 Kwanroller wrote:On May 01 2010 17:18 SuperArc wrote:On May 01 2010 16:35 Iplaythings wrote:On May 01 2010 02:56 Holgerius wrote:On May 01 2010 02:23 LucasWoJ wrote:On April 30 2010 21:56 Holgerius wrote:
PL vs Samsung on the 5th, MSL Bo5 vs MVP on the 6th and then OSL Bo5 vs Pure on the 7th. =/ That's such a backbreakingly brutal schedule. He should, IMO, pull a JD and focus on getting the Golden Mouse and just hope that his basic skills are good enough to get him through MVP. Getting burned out by being retardedly overworked is the only thing that can stop Flash from keeping up his extreme domination. err, passive-aggressive much? lol Jaedong focused for proleague finals much more than he did for the OSL in August. In fact, he didn't really practice for his finals against yarnc because of the free agency nonsense.There was no need to bring him up. Pulling a JD might more accurately mean "winning LWWW-" or beating an opponent after losing in an earlier encounter. I did not mean vs Yarnc, I meant the semi-finals. He had, just like Flash now, Bo5's in consecutive days and he, seemingly, focused a lot more on his games in OSL vs Fantasy than his games in MSL vs Calm. Flash should do the same thing; put focus on beating Pure so he can get the Golden Mouse. OSL>>>MSL in every single way. Didnt hurt him last season, and Violet / Stats / fOrGG has taken over ace match duties, as much as oz is Hiya - JD (and to an extent Killer) KT is having more "Hiya's" who arent the actual ace player but someone who can pick the duty up... tempoarily. Also everyone has seemed to forget how many of KT's players that can suddenly play really well unexpected, Stats is the only player on the team who havent had a slump, Violet had tough games during WL, If Luxury started to not throw matches away and got "clean" again he would certainly make the team dominant. Remember Season 1 ? Yeah it wasn't pretty. It's easy to say that KT's team is good when you have Flash who gets a sure win almost every match. KT without Flash would be lucky to just get the score to 2-2. KT is only a Oz with Flash. Definitely not, KT is worse than that. Hiya has always been a very acceptable proleague terran, Lomo/Backho are dumb players but still good enough to win around 50% of the time, and Jaedong can take down anyone in the ace match. KT was useless in 08/10 proleague and they're already reverted back to their useless selves after an awesome round 1. Not a single KT player, except obviously Flash, can be expected to win and with the whole team showing motivational problems, they'd probably perform worse than ACE. Well, your argument would sound much better if KT didn't wipe the floor with Oz couple of days ago... Even Oz can go 3-0 from time to time, this doesn't mean anything. But I have to agree with Kwanroller, Hiya/Killer/BackHo/Lomo look better than Forgg/Violet/Stats/Firefist You are absolutely correct! One 3:0 doesn't mean anything, so lets take a look at whole proleague, shall we? KT Rolster 3-0 Hwaseung OZ(Z)  Luxury > (Z) Killer on Tornado(Z) 815 > (Z) Jaedong on Heartbreak Ridge(T)  Flash > (T) HiyA on Moon GlaiveKT Rolster 3-0 Hwaseung OZ(Z) 815 > (Z) ggaemo on Outsider SE(T) Flash > (T) HiyA on Neo Moon Glaive(P)  Violet > (P) BackHo on New Heartbreak RidgeKT Rolster 4-3 Hwaseung OZ(T) fOrGG > (Z) Killer on Match Point(T) fOrGG < (T) HiyA on Neo Moon Glaive(P) Violet < (T) HiyA on Fighting Spirit(Z) HoeJJa > (T) HiyA on Roadrunner(Z) HoeJJa > (Z) ggaemo on New Tornado(Z) HoeJJa < (Z) Jaedong on Judgment Day(T) Flash > (Z) Jaedong on Match PointKT Rolster 3-0 Hwaseung OZ(Z) Jaedong < Roadrunner > (T) fOrGG(T) Lomo < Polaris Rhapsody > (T) Flash(T) HiyA < Fighting Spirit > (P) VioletThat's 3 times 3:0, every time those teams meat in regular proleague in fact. Only in Winners league the Oz was able to put some fight, mainly thanks to Hiya. Also worth to notice is that in every match, Flash played only one game, no needed for him to play ace in proleague or kill whole Oz in winners league. Really, you can argue how much do you want, but these stats speaks for themselves.
Fantastic post on why KT is definetly not OZ this season. I just want Luxury back 
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watching baby v. flash and remembering baby's other vT games and his game against guemchi last night - it seems like he has simply stopped using dropships and other kinds of harass, which he was so good at. he's still not quite at the level of some other top players macro-wise and he needs to utilize his sick micro, harass, and apm to keep winning games. his games against hwasin was insane in that regard but i don't know, for some reason he has simply stopped playing like that, and that's why he's losing.
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I wonder how Baby feels right now. He used to say in his interviews he really wanted to play Flash and learn a lot from him, as opposed to most progamers saying "Oh hehe, I'm glad I could avoid Flash in my group" and such. He has great potential, I'd like him to keep this mindset.
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To all those who are saying how bad KT would be without Flash. Yes they would. however, keep in mind how bad ALL teams would be if you arbitrarily took away their best player. They only fair comparison woud be to replace flash with a less godly, but still above average player and compare. KT would still be an above average team.
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even when he was winning baby looked a little anhedonic to me. i worry about these progamers' emotional states. it's good to see jaedong looking angry again
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On May 02 2010 07:56 IGoUnseen wrote:
To all those who are saying how bad KT would be without Flash. Yes they would. however, keep in mind how bad ALL teams would be if you arbitrarily took away their best player. They only fair comparison woud be to replace flash with a less godly, but still above average player and compare. KT would still be an above average team.
Wish it was so but I don't think so.
It doesn't matter what skill Flash has, every time KT plays we can just pray for one of 3 players to get a win and most of the times they can't do that. Same goes for Oz.
Most other teams have 2-3 players on top where if you take away one they can still go 2-2 and win the ace.
Without flash I'm sorry but KT would be lower than an average team.
Don't even know how we started discussing this but as I said before, there is a reason people call Oz and KT one man teams even thought sometimes other players step up.
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What are you talking about? MOST of the time the rest of the team won their matches. That's why our record is so damn amazing. It's obvious whenever the team doesn't pull through, but people are way way way too fast to overlook when KT does well.
People have short memories if they don't remember what a REAL one man team was last season. Flash was arguably the best player of the year in proleague but the team didn't even make playoffs. Flash didn't move up six ranks and then some all by himself, the entire team has stepped up. You don't 10-1 two rounds because your entire team is incompetent besides one player.
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Through April 21st:
Flash vs >.500 teams: 21-2
Rest of KT vs >.500 teams: 20-29
Kal vs >.500 teams: 5-8
Rest of STX vs >.500 teams: 18-35
Light vs >.500 teams: 14-8
Rest of MBC vs >.500 teams: 25-21
ZerO vs >.500 teams: 13-7
Rest of Stars vs >.500 teams: 29-29
fantasy vs >.500 teams: 11-8
Rest of SKT vs >.500 teams: 17-28
That should clear up the "team depth" argument.
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On May 02 2010 09:06 jalstar wrote:
Through April 21st:
Flash vs >.500 teams: 21-2
Rest of KT vs >.500 teams: 20-29
Kal vs >.500 teams: 5-8
Rest of STX vs >.500 teams: 18-35
Light vs >.500 teams: 14-8
Rest of MBC vs >.500 teams: 25-21
ZerO vs >.500 teams: 13-7
Rest of Stars vs >.500 teams: 29-29
fantasy vs >.500 teams: 11-8
Rest of SKT vs >.500 teams: 17-28
That should clear up the "team depth" argument.
This is the most ambiguous set of stats I've ever seen
Edit- Okay, I've considered you data further and I've come to the conclusion that there is absolutely no conclusion that can be drawn from this data
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On May 02 2010 07:56 IGoUnseen wrote:
To all those who are saying how bad KT would be without Flash. Yes they would. however, keep in mind how bad ALL teams would be if you arbitrarily took away their best player. They only fair comparison woud be to replace flash with a less godly, but still above average player and compare. KT would still be an above average team.
Woongjin without Zero or Free, would still have a deep line up
Same thing goes for STX and WeMade, they don't have "best" player that is miles above their average team.
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so far this season in individual games, not including flash, kt is 5-7 vs. stx, 7-9 vs. woongjin
hardly an extreme difference in depth imho. stx and woongjin are both overrated where depth is concerned; stx zergs and woongjin non-zergs have been quite inconsistent
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Plexa, can u give us a preview of the next PR?
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On May 02 2010 14:27 Mooncat wrote:
Plexa, can u give us a preview of the next PR?
Heck, I can give you a preview of the next PR:
1. Flash
That's just a teaser, the other nine slots will be revealed soon.
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On May 02 2010 15:08 Djabanete wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2010 14:27 Mooncat wrote:
Plexa, can u give us a preview of the next PR? Heck, I can give you a preview of the next PR: 1. Flash That's just a teaser, the other nine slots will be revealed soon.
lol
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On May 02 2010 15:08 Djabanete wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2010 14:27 Mooncat wrote:
Plexa, can u give us a preview of the next PR? Heck, I can give you a preview of the next PR: 1. Flash That's just a teaser, the other nine slots will be revealed soon.
You're a funny guy.
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On May 02 2010 08:38 TwoToneTerran wrote:
What are you talking about? MOST of the time the rest of the team won their matches. That's why our record is so damn amazing. It's obvious whenever the team doesn't pull through, but people are way way way too fast to overlook when KT does well.
People have short memories if they don't remember what a REAL one man team was last season. Flash was arguably the best player of the year in proleague but the team didn't even make playoffs. Flash didn't move up six ranks and then some all by himself, the entire team has stepped up. You don't 10-1 two rounds because your entire team is incompetent besides one player.
I was referring to recently. They haven't been playing good for a while now.
There was a time in WL where non of the other players won a game for like 11 games in a row.
I still don't think they'd be above average without a player such as flash.
They did have a good run the first rounds though and I really hope they can get back to playing like that. If the others step up their game KT can't lose.
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On May 01 2010 20:18 SuperArc wrote:
But I have to agree with Kwanroller, Hiya/Killer/BackHo/Lomo look better than Forgg/Violet/Stats/Firefist
Hiya's playing a bit better than any non-Flash player on KT at the moment, but when did lomo, killer, or backho post anything like the results that forgg + stats did in winner's league? They also made it farther in individual leagues than anyone on Oz save JD.
At least violet and stats show the occasional hints that they might become reliable players. Oz second-liners, not so much.
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EPT
