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On May 28 2013 03:25 Zealously wrote:
Don't get me wrong guys I have nothing against Koreans but I don't want them in my tournaments
Edit: Sarcasm aside, the issue seems to be exclusively Koreans. Moonglade and Snute are in the Ro8 of WCS yet that does not seem to be an issue. The issue always brought up is "But these things should be region locked, I don't want Koreans in EU/AM", yet Snute and Moonglade seem to have done their fair share of American-killing in WCS America. Which, by the way, was never advertised like last year's WCS - the "America" only stands for where the tournament is played out. Nowhere was it said (at least not by Blizzard) that it should be limited to Americans.
The situation with Moonglade is difficult, because there is no WCS SEA. But yes, its not ok if Snute (or a player like Demuslim) participates in NA. They too should play EU unless they live longterm in NA (which they do afaik). But just be invited, or from online qualifiers to grabbing the money/points from 1-2 weeks of staying in the country? No, thats bullshit.
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On May 28 2013 04:37 Gr33d wrote:
The situation with Moonglade is difficult, because there is no WCS SEA. But yes, its not ok if Snute (or a player like Demuslim) participates in NA. They too should play EU unless they live longterm in NA (which they do afaik). But just be invited, or from online qualifiers to grabbing the money/points from 1-2 weeks of staying in the country? No, thats bullshit.
Starcraft tournament is about the competition of skills, not competition between nationality. This ain't Euro Cup or World Cup.
Since some of you are Germans, do you have no bias toward TLO? I find it hard to believe. You Europeans should be happy for yourselves, you have MVP to represent Europe, who else is more qualified in terms of skill level?
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All premier division games should be played offline and the Korean server tournament should reward more spots/money, I think it's a pretty obvious solution and preferable to region-locking.
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On May 28 2013 05:30 twndomn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 04:37 Gr33d wrote:
The situation with Moonglade is difficult, because there is no WCS SEA. But yes, its not ok if Snute (or a player like Demuslim) participates in NA. They too should play EU unless they live longterm in NA (which they do afaik). But just be invited, or from online qualifiers to grabbing the money/points from 1-2 weeks of staying in the country? No, thats bullshit. Starcraft tournament is about the competition of skills, not competition between nationality. This ain't Euro Cup or World Cup. Since some of you are Germans, do you have no bias toward TLO? I find it hard to believe. You Europeans should be happy for yourselves, you have MVP to represent Europe, who else is more qualified in terms of skill level?
You can't say that it's all about skill, we tend to think that we have bounds to people that are from our country, that we have something in common between that particular guy/girl. That's why america is a culturally weak country, full with selfish people, but philosophy aside, I respect MVP as a player, but I wasn't happy that he won the WCS EU.
If you go for skill that's fine, but don't put a name on it with regional catchy shit.
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On May 28 2013 06:59 Qbyx wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 05:30 twndomn wrote:On May 28 2013 04:37 Gr33d wrote:
The situation with Moonglade is difficult, because there is no WCS SEA. But yes, its not ok if Snute (or a player like Demuslim) participates in NA. They too should play EU unless they live longterm in NA (which they do afaik). But just be invited, or from online qualifiers to grabbing the money/points from 1-2 weeks of staying in the country? No, thats bullshit. Starcraft tournament is about the competition of skills, not competition between nationality. This ain't Euro Cup or World Cup. Since some of you are Germans, do you have no bias toward TLO? I find it hard to believe. You Europeans should be happy for yourselves, you have MVP to represent Europe, who else is more qualified in terms of skill level? You can't say that it's all about skill, we tend to think that we have bounds to people that are from our country, that we have something in common between that particular guy/girl. That's why america is a culturally weak country, full with selfish people, but philosophy aside, I respect MVP as a player, but I wasn't happy that he won the WCS EU. If you go for skill that's fine, but don't put a name on it with regional catchy shit.
Go to WCG if you want see Representatives of your country. you can happy with WCG
WCS is not about competition between nationality if then WCS needs rest of locals, Europe,North America and Korea only currently
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On May 27 2013 20:38 bhfberserk wrote:For those who have been saying about easy SC2 pathing, clumped up units look bad and MVP's game not entertaining. :D ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cMH3mFw.png)
This game was a complete clinic. Only MVP has spreads, positioning, and building placement like that. He makes playing Terran look like something from a campaign.
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On May 27 2013 22:20 robson1 wrote:
Let's make the next Olympic qualifier for 100m dash with the same system like WCS, so we can have 7 Jamaicans and an american in the Finals. Don't you see how we get the highest quality and should be thankful to have such an awesome system?
That's actually exactly how they do it, lol. The runs heats in the Olympics and the top guys from the heats get into the finals.
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WCS europe last year was a huge success, and was without Korean. [/QUOTE]
Yes, and look what happened at the WCS finals. A lot of games with a large skill gap between the koreans and random EU and AM players, and with that the games are a lot less interesting to watch,
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There is a reason why in every sport they allow foreigners in their national competition. Don't think David Beckham joined the Los Angeles Galaxy for anything but the money. If you want eSports to be taken serious people should stop moaning about a league like this. This makes it better for the non-Koreans too because it grows environments where foreigners can train like Koreans, in a steady league.
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opterown
Australia54620 Posts
gratz to mvp, i would have preferred stephano to win though, for yoorop to hold!
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On May 28 2013 06:59 Qbyx wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 05:30 twndomn wrote:On May 28 2013 04:37 Gr33d wrote:
The situation with Moonglade is difficult, because there is no WCS SEA. But yes, its not ok if Snute (or a player like Demuslim) participates in NA. They too should play EU unless they live longterm in NA (which they do afaik). But just be invited, or from online qualifiers to grabbing the money/points from 1-2 weeks of staying in the country? No, thats bullshit. Starcraft tournament is about the competition of skills, not competition between nationality. This ain't Euro Cup or World Cup. Since some of you are Germans, do you have no bias toward TLO? I find it hard to believe. You Europeans should be happy for yourselves, you have MVP to represent Europe, who else is more qualified in terms of skill level? You can't say that it's all about skill, we tend to think that we have bounds to people that are from our country, that we have something in common between that particular guy/girl. That's why america is a culturally weak country, full with selfish people, but philosophy aside, I respect MVP as a player, but I wasn't happy that he won the WCS EU. If you go for skill that's fine, but don't put a name on it with regional catchy shit.
I see nothing wrong with the way WCS has been handled and quite frankly, EU held their ground really well against the koreans, that MVP would eventually win wasn't much of an upset however, considering just how amazing his longer series are.
Cheering for a particular nationality always struck me as fairly silly tho, so I'm abit biased.
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On May 28 2013 03:41 Obender99 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 03:25 Zealously wrote:
Don't get me wrong guys I have nothing against Koreans but I don't want them in my tournaments
Edit: Sarcasm aside, the issue seems to be exclusively Koreans. Moonglade and Snute are in the Ro8 of WCS yet that does not seem to be an issue. The issue always brought up is "But these things should be region locked, I don't want Koreans in EU/AM", yet Snute and Moonglade seem to have done their fair share of American-killing in WCS America. Which, by the way, was never advertised like last year's WCS - the "America" only stands for where the tournament is played out. Nowhere was it said (at least not by Blizzard) that it should be limited to Americans. Amen, please stop the Korea bashing. Edit: It's like saying the French Open should only be limited to French players, the Australian open to Aussies and the US open to Americans. That doesn't apply to any sport, nor should it apply to this one.
it's not about korea bashing.. not at all. The thing is: We already have multiple tournaments like IEM, dreamhack etc. etc. where everybody can compete.
But to have one local tournament with a high prizepool is not too much to ask for.
And to be honest: It is not about us. It is not about the hardcore SC2 fans.
If blizzard wants to propagate and to establish SC2 tournaments for a wider audience more people need to have an interest in it. And this grows by identification. And really no one understands the concept
of a WCS europe wheras a korean represents europe. Like I said this is like a world championship in soccer where in the finals germany plays against germany, but one german team is representing france... o_O
In order to establish SC2 also in europe an america you need guys like TLO that win a tournament. It doesn't matter if they are the best... if this would be the goal then we wouldn't have WCS europe at all but everybode would compete directly in the GSL in korea... there you have the best of the best. But I enjoy watching a very good, but not the best, TLO, or scarlet.
Of course MVP won because he was the better, but thats just not the point. If I always want to see the best I wouldn't bother watching WhiteRas stream but I would watch mainly GSL vods... but I don't because I love to see whitera carriers...
sorry but the concept is just wrong. And next year... without a stephano playing we will have a korean finals.... that's just the way it is. And for me at least... I would still watch it, but I wouldn't cheer for anyone of those players because I just can't identify with a korean as much as I can with a european or american player in a WCS europe/ NA.
And this is called friendly competition...
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Great showing from MVP - really hope Blizz fixes their shit and region locks the next WCS. Until then, might as well just sigh deeply and wait for WCS AM[lol] to be over.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
I love how so many people are cheering for the wrong guy, it's Mvp not MVP.
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GG MVP
I'm happy to see stephano at this level, he's still the best EU player
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On May 29 2013 01:02 Targe wrote:
I love how so many people are cheering for the wrong guy, it's Mvp not MVP.
Well, no..
Mvp is the player, MVP is the team, as everyone except you have enough wits to understand that this is a solo-players tournament and not a team tournament, we're not being that strict with upper/lower case.
Besides, hes used all-caps in tournaments in his ingame nick, of that I am 100% certain.
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I always vote for the koreans just because I feel they are the stronger players and the best player should win. That being said I completely agree each league should be limited to that region with no koreans in the NA league. Its the first WCS so I think its just kind of an oversight they will fix, but it is important pro players here can win some money to get interest here.
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If foreigners would just get better this wouldn't even be an issue. Personally I want to see the highest level of competition and skill , if that person happens to be from my region then great, I will be proud and cheer for them. But lets not water the purity of a tournament down by adding region handicaps because foreigners can't compete, there really is no excuse. The Koreans want it more (they don't just say this they follow through with results) , they train harder, and they win. Get better or deal with it.
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On May 28 2013 08:32 negativedge wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 20:38 bhfberserk wrote:For those who have been saying about easy SC2 pathing, clumped up units look bad and MVP's game not entertaining. :D This game was a complete clinic. Only MVP has spreads, positioning, and building placement like that. He makes playing Terran look like something from a campaign.
I actually cannot think of a way to deal with that....his tanks are spread perfectly so that the thor can waddle through like a sergeant checking on the privates
Along with the decent frontal defense, anti air and detection, dont see how its gonna be broken anytime soon
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On May 29 2013 09:39 Doomwish wrote:
If foreigners would just get better this wouldn't even be an issue. Personally I want to see the highest level of competition and skill , if that person happens to be from my region then great, I will be proud and cheer for them. But lets not water the purity of a tournament down by adding region handicaps because foreigners can't compete, there really is no excuse. The Koreans want it more (they don't just say this they follow through with results) , they train harder, and they win. Get better or deal with it.
But you are not getting the highest level of competition. It is not the most skilled or most deserving players that come to na/eu and qualify. They are the ones who have the means and support to make the travel and still feel confident enough to beat the competition. There are probably dozens of koreans who would be more deserving of a finals spot skillwise, than what the current system gives us. But they just lack the support to dodge their competition and go on an easier route. How is that system providing us with "the highest level of competition and skill"?
The current system just lacks any sort of understandable focus.
Is it meant to mimick a world cup, where different nations are involved and you have local tournaments to determine the regions representatives? Doesn't look that way, because the local tournaments aren't reflecting the local competition.
Is it meant to provide us with the worlds best players, who are closest in skill? No .. Koreans number seven might be 100times more deserving than americas number 5, even though the latter qualified while the former didn't.
So my problem is not, that i don't like koreans in foreign competition, but that i do not understand what this tournament wants to accomplish.
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EPT
