Reflecting on how the TSL has turned out, there is no doubt that the two players that we have left standing before us are well deserved finalists. Creator has demolished his opposition at every turn and has an incredibly impressive 14-2 record to show for (undefeated before the semifinals). He has looked untouchable throughout this tournament and deservedly enters the final as the favorite. On the other side of the coin, after losing his first two games of the TSL before staging a comeback, Life has fought hand tooth and nail to take his spot in the final. Life is the player who had to fight his way to the finals and while it wasn't always pretty, you'd be hard pressed to argue that he doesn't belong in the final.
Creator is known for his rock solid builds and strong macro style. While Creator has a reputation for a sick PvT and has illustrated his PvP prowess in WCS: Korea, his PvZ doesn't share the same accolades among the public. Still, Creator claims PvZ is his best matchup; a statement that will no doubt be tested by this final. Creator's PvZ is distinctly 'Creator' in the sense that he aims to play long macro games where he beats his opponent down in the late game with Mothership, Carriers and multi-pronged harass. A good illustration of Creator PvZ is this game from the TSL qualifiers.
Life on the other hand is the complete opposite to Creator's solid and predictable style. He plays a offbeat style of Zerg where he uses uncommon tactics to surprise the enemy and force mistakes. Does that mean Life can't play long macro games? Not by any means, in fact, some of his uncommon tactics include extremely greedy plays aimed to give Life a massive advantage in the late game. Life's play is largely unpredictable but this unpredictability shouldn't be mistaken for not being prepared. Life has been carefully refining his unorthodox playstyle for months and he knows how to use the appropriate strategy at the right time. Just like how we saw him demolish Keen last week on Cloud Kingdom.
While the first map of this series, Ohana, will be important to set momentum; in my opinion Entombed Valley should be the map which indicates how the series is going to unfold. Ohana is a rather standard map and a good map to feel out your opponent on for a long Bo7 like this one. Entombed, however, is a map where you always have a specific preplanned playstyle for the map. That means a player like Life will have a strong plan coming into the game and observing how Creator responds to this will be very telling - has he prepared something of his own? Did he crush the strategy anyway? If he capable of adapting to Life's unique brand of Zerg? Entombed Valley should tell us all of this. Also the winner of the second map is incredibly important - if the score becomes 1-1 then we know we've got a good series on our hands while a 2-0 score could indicate a more one sided affair.
The last thing to keep in mind for this series is that there is $16000 on the line. Creator has already had some finals experience from his WCS: Korea victory which might mean that he has the mental edge coming into this. However, being an online final it possible that this helps both players remain calm and give us the best quality games. Also it is worth remembering that both players are young and achieving at such a high level already with long and fruitful careers ahead of them - so $16000 and the pressure of a finals might not end up being a significant factor at all.
It's the TSL4 finals. It's been a long road getting here, but it's finally here. There's something about a TSL final that makes special things happen, and I doubt this years installment will be any different. Tune in and watch history unfold, as the conclusion of TSL4 is written into legend.
TSL4’s bronze medal match has traditionally been of more significance than your average third place match, as the winner will be directly seeded into the next TSL, skipping the difficult and time-consuming qualification process. With this as well as a large chunk of cash on the line, Keen and Sting will be bringing their best in what is sure to be an intense series between two exciting players. Both players have managed to distinguish themselves from the crowd of other Korean players they have long been compared to, both through their play in the TSL and through Keen’s cheeky ceremonies and Sting’s insightful interviews.
On one side of the ring is MVP.Keen. You probably know him as this guy.
That says much of what you need to know about Keen. Keen, throughout his history, has always been a solid player on the borderline of Code S and Code A, sometimes pulling a big upset but not quite showing the capability or potential that made us feel like he could be a future champion. Keen’s TSL run thus far has been a bit of a unique one, as he was the only player to face entirely foreigners up to the Ro4. Last week I predicted his shakiness against foreign Zerg players would result in not quite being able to hold up with top Korean competition, and what happened was exactly that – Keen didn’t look awful, but he just didn’t seem to be able to consistently compete with such an excellent Zerg as Life. His opponent this week seems to be a small step down, at least from what we’ve seen – the semifinals last week truly did put the favorites a cut above the two battling here for third, and that’s not to say anything bad about Keen and Sting.
The problem with Keen is that despite his many victories over Code S competition, we’ve never seen much from him that made us say “wow, Keen is much better than these other Terrans”. He plays a variety of builds and styles, featuring bio, mech, timing attacks, cheeses, harass, and pretty much every option a Terran player has at their disposal, but there’s no real hallmark of Keen’s style. In TvT in particular, his play has simply ranged from average to solid – nothing more than that. It hasn’t been too different as of late, splitting games with players who are solidly Code S and many who could be considered better than him. Keen will need to bring his best game to this match, as he’s shown he can only just edge out victories over top competitors when he’s on form, but it would be surprising if the series is excessively one-sided either way.
Sting, who has been teamless for quite a bit now despite showing solid play and some charisma and enthusiasm in his interviews [cough foreign teams cough], suffered a painful defeat to Creator last week to land himself in the third place match. Despite not being able to get through the wall that is Creator, his TSL4 run thus far has been fairly impressive, with solid victories over Beastyqt, DarKFoRcE, and most notably the deadly First. Sting has shown an impressive diversity of aggressive builds, pretty much always trying to keep the pressure on rather than building up deathball maxed compositions. Sting came into this tournament with a nearly blank sheet of accomplishments and only one brief Code A appearance, and he has taken the opportunity to impress, with a solid semifinal run in a quite difficult bracket.
A match against Keen is another great chance for Sting to make an impression, and a seed into the next TSL is definitely a bonus. In interviews, he has stated that he does feel he performs better online, and this tournament has proven his ability to compete with top level players. While it hasn’t quite been enough for us to say he could challenge the very elite, it could be enough for a foreign team to want to take a chance on a player that certainly has the potential to do even better.
This match is quite difficult to call, as it is a mirror matchup where both players are at a similar level. TvT has been both players’ worst matchup historically, and neither has shown particularly exceptional play in the matchup. This matchup could simply come down to who prepares better, as there is certain to be a lot of strategic diversity in a long TvT series. Sting will have all his energy focused on this match while Keen has WCG Korea, GSTL, Code A, and team obligations, and Sting has been quite enthusiastic and methodic with his preparation before. All signs appear to point to Sting, but then again, you never know how good Keen is going to be on the day.
TwitchTV is the world’s largest video game entertainment and chat community. TwitchTV features the top gaming personalities, players, tournaments and commentary, in addition to the most active and interesting discussions around video games. TwitchTV provides publishers and advertisers a platform to create long term engagement and commitment from gamers.
Razer has been a pioneering supporter of e-Sports since its conception. It is in our blood and we are driven to further the culture of professional gaming in all that we do. We work hand in hand with our pros to forge weaponry for the players who stake their livelihood on podium placements. Our gear is designed to perform flawlessly in high-stress tournament conditions where winning is everything and mistakes cost championships. Those who compete with our equipment will attest – We live by our words: For Gamers. By Gamers.
I still think it's disappointing that the players are being cast from replays now, rather than playing live at the TLHQ.
If a team considers its players to be too young to compete in foreign tournaments, then they should not be entered. Like it or not, being a progamer requires some sacrifices. These kids are getting a headstart in life with huge cash bonuses, and they are living the dream that thousands of people wish they could - making a career out of gaming.
Because Creator and Life joined the tournament, two other potential candidates were not able to join the tournament. If you're not willing or able to make the requirements you shouldn't be in it - at this point, I'd recommend Team Liquid need to consider whether or not they should reinvite these two for the next TSL. They've shown a lack of commitment, and disappointed fans - and they are being paid a lot of money for it.
When you think about how disappointing it is for the TL staff, the fans, the other progamers who couldn't be in the tournament, and think how easy it would be for the teams to either send a coach or captain with their players, or even a family member, it just seems a bit of a let-down to me.
Maybe we need to start introducing 18+ tournaments... lol.
On September 08 2012 09:15 SpunXtain03 wrote: I still think it's disappointing that the players are being cast from replays now, rather than playing live at the TLHQ.
If a team considers its players to be too young to compete in foreign tournaments, then they should not be entered. Like it or not, being a progamer requires some sacrifices. These kids are getting a headstart in life with huge cash bonuses, and they are living the dream that thousands of people wish they could - making a career out of gaming.
Because Creator and Life joined the tournament, two other potential candidates were not able to join the tournament. If you're not willing or able to make the requirements you shouldn't be in it - at this point, I'd recommend Team Liquid need to consider whether or not they should reinvite these two for the next TSL. They've shown a lack of commitment, and disappointed fans - and they are being paid a lot of money for it.
When you think about how disappointing it is for the TL staff, the fans, the other progamers who couldn't be in the tournament, and think how easy it would be for the teams to either send a coach or captain with their players, or even a family member, it just seems a bit of a let-down to me.
Maybe we need to start introducing 18+ tournaments... lol.
Even if it couldn't be held live they both deserved to be where they are. Don't take any credit away from them.
wow that's pretty disappointing not having a live finals.
even though it's not going to be cross server, there's something that you really feel when you know the game is being played before your eyes, this energy...
On September 08 2012 09:15 SpunXtain03 wrote: I still think it's disappointing that the players are being cast from replays now, rather than playing live at the TLHQ.
If a team considers its players to be too young to compete in foreign tournaments, then they should not be entered. Like it or not, being a progamer requires some sacrifices. These kids are getting a headstart in life with huge cash bonuses, and they are living the dream that thousands of people wish they could - making a career out of gaming.
Because Creator and Life joined the tournament, two other potential candidates were not able to join the tournament. If you're not willing or able to make the requirements you shouldn't be in it - at this point, I'd recommend Team Liquid need to consider whether or not they should reinvite these two for the next TSL. They've shown a lack of commitment, and disappointed fans - and they are being paid a lot of money for it.
When you think about how disappointing it is for the TL staff, the fans, the other progamers who couldn't be in the tournament, and think how easy it would be for the teams to either send a coach or captain with their players, or even a family member, it just seems a bit of a let-down to me.
Maybe we need to start introducing 18+ tournaments... lol.
Even if it couldn't be held live they both deserved to be where they are. Don't take any credit away from them.
They both played well this tournament and deserve to be in the finals. It's still disappointing though.
Life is a fun zerg player to watch, so many different/unique builds. As for Creator, he's just an overall solid player and I'm predicting he will take TSL4. Even though it's kinda sad that they won't be able to play at TLHQ live, I still anticipate we will get to see some entertaining games. Can't wait to see what comes from the 3rd/4th place match and grand finals
On September 08 2012 09:15 SpunXtain03 wrote: I still think it's disappointing that the players are being cast from replays now, rather than playing live at the TLHQ.
If a team considers its players to be too young to compete in foreign tournaments, then they should not be entered. Like it or not, being a progamer requires some sacrifices. These kids are getting a headstart in life with huge cash bonuses, and they are living the dream that thousands of people wish they could - making a career out of gaming.
Because Creator and Life joined the tournament, two other potential candidates were not able to join the tournament. If you're not willing or able to make the requirements you shouldn't be in it - at this point, I'd recommend Team Liquid need to consider whether or not they should reinvite these two for the next TSL. They've shown a lack of commitment, and disappointed fans - and they are being paid a lot of money for it.
When you think about how disappointing it is for the TL staff, the fans, the other progamers who couldn't be in the tournament, and think how easy it would be for the teams to either send a coach or captain with their players, or even a family member, it just seems a bit of a let-down to me.
Maybe we need to start introducing 18+ tournaments... lol.
I have to agree with that. I'm assuming everything was laid out in print when people signed up. I am glad that TL was willing to accommodate their requests, but still it shows a lack of preparedness on the part of the teams. I understand their travel concerns, but didn't they consider that at the beginning? I wonder if the real issue is preparing for Code S, but the fact that they are minors is being used as a way to excuse not traveling in a manner that is less disrespectful. If they say they can't travel because they want to be ready for Code S, that is an insult to TSL4 and those who take it seriously, but if they can't travel because there are concerns over their safety as being young progamers, it is more acceptable.
Looking forward to this. I'm expecting Creator to take this frankly. He did take down DRG in the WCS Korea and is on a roll lately, besides he claims his PvZ is his best matchup, so I'm predicting it will be 4-2.
On September 08 2012 09:15 SpunXtain03 wrote: I still think it's disappointing that the players are being cast from replays now, rather than playing live at the TLHQ.
If a team considers its players to be too young to compete in foreign tournaments, then they should not be entered. Like it or not, being a progamer requires some sacrifices. These kids are getting a headstart in life with huge cash bonuses, and they are living the dream that thousands of people wish they could - making a career out of gaming.
Because Creator and Life joined the tournament, two other potential candidates were not able to join the tournament. If you're not willing or able to make the requirements you shouldn't be in it - at this point, I'd recommend Team Liquid need to consider whether or not they should reinvite these two for the next TSL. They've shown a lack of commitment, and disappointed fans - and they are being paid a lot of money for it.
When you think about how disappointing it is for the TL staff, the fans, the other progamers who couldn't be in the tournament, and think how easy it would be for the teams to either send a coach or captain with their players, or even a family member, it just seems a bit of a let-down to me.
Maybe we need to start introducing 18+ tournaments... lol.
I have to agree with that. I'm assuming everything was laid out in print when people signed up. I am glad that TL was willing to accommodate their requests, but still it shows a lack of preparedness on the part of the teams. I understand their travel concerns, but didn't they consider that at the beginning? I wonder if the real issue is preparing for Code S, but the fact that they are minors is being used as a way to excuse not traveling in a manner that is less disrespectful. If they say they can't travel because they want to be ready for Code S, that is an insult to TSL4 and those who take it seriously, but if they can't travel because there are concerns over their safety as being young progamers, it is more acceptable.
The whole travel to TLHQ for finals never was advertised at all this season, probably cause TL themselves knew that depending on who makes it, they may not be able to do it live. It was a risk TL took, not the players bailing out.
On September 08 2012 09:15 SpunXtain03 wrote: I still think it's disappointing that the players are being cast from replays now, rather than playing live at the TLHQ.
If a team considers its players to be too young to compete in foreign tournaments, then they should not be entered. Like it or not, being a progamer requires some sacrifices. These kids are getting a headstart in life with huge cash bonuses, and they are living the dream that thousands of people wish they could - making a career out of gaming.
Because Creator and Life joined the tournament, two other potential candidates were not able to join the tournament. If you're not willing or able to make the requirements you shouldn't be in it - at this point, I'd recommend Team Liquid need to consider whether or not they should reinvite these two for the next TSL. They've shown a lack of commitment, and disappointed fans - and they are being paid a lot of money for it.
When you think about how disappointing it is for the TL staff, the fans, the other progamers who couldn't be in the tournament, and think how easy it would be for the teams to either send a coach or captain with their players, or even a family member, it just seems a bit of a let-down to me.
Maybe we need to start introducing 18+ tournaments... lol.
It is SO disappointing that we won't see it live! But no one's at fault. $16k is a LOT of money. Live audiences are awesome! We know that, and hopefully the stars align next finals and we avoid GSL entirely. Priorities! I love TL! You love TL! A ton of Koreans love TL! Players on teams have obligations to their team. Let's stay positive people.
On September 08 2012 09:15 SpunXtain03 wrote: I still think it's disappointing that the players are being cast from replays now, rather than playing live at the TLHQ.
If a team considers its players to be too young to compete in foreign tournaments, then they should not be entered. Like it or not, being a progamer requires some sacrifices. These kids are getting a headstart in life with huge cash bonuses, and they are living the dream that thousands of people wish they could - making a career out of gaming.
Because Creator and Life joined the tournament, two other potential candidates were not able to join the tournament. If you're not willing or able to make the requirements you shouldn't be in it - at this point, I'd recommend Team Liquid need to consider whether or not they should reinvite these two for the next TSL. They've shown a lack of commitment, and disappointed fans - and they are being paid a lot of money for it.
When you think about how disappointing it is for the TL staff, the fans, the other progamers who couldn't be in the tournament, and think how easy it would be for the teams to either send a coach or captain with their players, or even a family member, it just seems a bit of a let-down to me.
Maybe we need to start introducing 18+ tournaments... lol.
totally agreed, for 16k its not too much to ask to actually show up, or is it?
On September 08 2012 16:42 Acidosis wrote: TSL4 just doesn't have the same hype as TSL3...
Yeah, I still remember the first TSL's...wow, those were awesome. But TSL4 couldn't get me hooked at all. How about a very early HotS TSL5 where we can experience a lot of exciting new strategies?
I care about the players the real thing that's making it so I don't get hyped is that It's going to be a replay cast for the finals, It's just not of the same intensity when I know in the back of my mind that the result has already been decided before the first game airs.
I don't see why people care if the finals are live in a studio with no audience whatsoever, it's just A LOT of money and time wasted on transport for no reason whatsoever.
The only difference between live and replay is that the banner covering the replay features is bigger, the casters wont know the results and neither will we.
This is very interesting, i feel like we're watching the birth of the TBLS of SC2, young progamers with lots of talent and the support to live up to it. These guys are the future of e-sports.
On September 08 2012 16:42 Acidosis wrote: TSL4 just doesn't have the same hype as TSL3...
Yeah, I still remember the first TSL's...wow, those were awesome. But TSL4 couldn't get me hooked at all. How about a very early HotS TSL5 where we can experience a lot of exciting new strategies?
Well things were very different back in TSL3, the foreigners were still underdogs but not as big an underdog as they are now. The skill gap used to be close enough that you could be fooled into believing that Thorzain and Naniwa were as good as the Koreans. Now the Koreans dominate so hard that having an all Korean finals makes it a bit hard to distinguish this final from any other Korean final.
Koreans aren't as attached to the 'foreign' community as foreigners, obviously, and this makes this TSL feel like less of a prestigious intra-community tournament. The lack of IRL footage during the finals, celebrations and silly videos á la Nani vs Tzain chess etc. doesn't help. Just because they're koreans, any sort of post-game interview will feel a bit detached as well (with translators).
I don't think TSL4 will have the same "make into a recognizable figure" effect that previous TSLs had, because of the reasons above.
I hope the players at least see this as a big thing so that we get good games.
Judging from the amount(or actually lack of) of pages in this thread. Nobody cares. Very few people relate to these players. It's sad. I wish the format was different, but I still love TSL and TL. I hope for entertaining games. But it's not even live. Most people will understand what I'm saying.
TSL should have seeded some of the bigger names instead of leaving all it just qualifiers. Of course the less well known players will try harder for the qualifers as the more famous players have other tournaments to consider
On September 09 2012 00:42 ellirc wrote: Judging from the amount(or actually lack of) of pages in this thread. Nobody cares. Very few people relate to these players. It's sad. I wish the format was different, but I still love TSL and TL. I hope for entertaining games. But it's not even live. Most people will understand what I'm saying.
I'm totally with you. This TSL is a bit underwhelming to be completely honest. I remember in the TSL3 Finals, in the final game with Day9 solo casting, ThorZaiN vs NaNiwa struggling so hard to try and win... that was the most memorable moment for me. Such hype and a very very epic finals.
Let's just hope this Finals will not be a disappointment.
On September 09 2012 01:52 ChoboDane wrote: I cant believe people who would have preferred to see a foreigner in the final. Dont you guys like quality games?
As for myself, I'm looking much more forward to this final than TSL3 (which was awesome).
so if it's a korean player, the quality of games will always be better? Perhaps you don't understand how fanbase and fan interest works. People want to watch players they can relate to, players who have storylines, and generally players who have established themselves as big names. Life and Creator, while currently making names for themselves, haven't really done so to this point (the WCS win for Creator is pretty awesome though). Considering TSL was traditionally about getting big name non-koreans to dish it out and create some fun/exciting storylines, this is kind of the opposite. It just feels like a regular GSL match
On September 08 2012 09:15 SpunXtain03 wrote: I still think it's disappointing that the players are being cast from replays now, rather than playing live at the TLHQ.
If a team considers its players to be too young to compete in foreign tournaments, then they should not be entered. Like it or not, being a progamer requires some sacrifices. These kids are getting a headstart in life with huge cash bonuses, and they are living the dream that thousands of people wish they could - making a career out of gaming.
Because Creator and Life joined the tournament, two other potential candidates were not able to join the tournament. If you're not willing or able to make the requirements you shouldn't be in it - at this point, I'd recommend Team Liquid need to consider whether or not they should reinvite these two for the next TSL. They've shown a lack of commitment, and disappointed fans - and they are being paid a lot of money for it.
When you think about how disappointing it is for the TL staff, the fans, the other progamers who couldn't be in the tournament, and think how easy it would be for the teams to either send a coach or captain with their players, or even a family member, it just seems a bit of a let-down to me.
Maybe we need to start introducing 18+ tournaments... lol.
This kinda reminds me of the first TSL "ITS A REPLAY????" I don't blame their parents one bit for expressing concern. Watch the games and don't complain.
On September 08 2012 16:42 Acidosis wrote: TSL4 just doesn't have the same hype as TSL3...
Yeah, I still remember the first TSL's...wow, those were awesome. But TSL4 couldn't get me hooked at all. How about a very early HotS TSL5 where we can experience a lot of exciting new strategies?
Well things were very different back in TSL3, the foreigners were still underdogs but not as big an underdog as they are now. The skill gap used to be close enough that you could be fooled into believing that Thorzain and Naniwa were as good as the Koreans. Now the Koreans dominate so hard that having an all Korean finals makes it a bit hard to distinguish this final from any other Korean final.
It's actually pretty easy, as there are pretty much always different players in those "Korean finals". But I guess it's even easier to just look at players nationality and say "oh they are Korean. so boring" instead of actually dealing with every player as an individual. Quite sad tbh.
On September 09 2012 01:52 ChoboDane wrote: I cant believe people who would have preferred to see a foreigner in the final. Dont you guys like quality games?
As for myself, I'm looking much more forward to this final than TSL3 (which was awesome).
so if it's a korean player, the quality of games will always be better? Perhaps you don't understand how fanbase and fan interest works. People want to watch players they can relate to, players who have storylines, and generally players who have established themselves as big names. Life and Creator, while currently making names for themselves, haven't really done so to this point (the WCS win for Creator is pretty awesome though). Considering TSL was traditionally about getting big name non-koreans to dish it out and create some fun/exciting storylines, this is kind of the opposite. It just feels like a regular GSL match
no the quality of games will be better because these two players are way way way way way better than anyone outside of Korea. and no I dont understand this fanbase and fan interest thing. Why would you root for the inferior players?
The last thing to keep in mind for this series is that there is $16000 on the line. Creator has already had some finals experience from his WCS: Korea victory which might mean that he has the mental edge coming into this. However, being an online final it possible that this helps both players remain calm and give us the best quality games. Also it is worth remembering that both players are young and achieving at such a high level already with long and fruitful careers ahead of them - so $16000 and the pressure of a finals might not end up being a significant factor at all.
not entirely sure how you work out that there's $16k on the line
Congrats to Life and Creator at making it to the Finals. Hopefully we can see some more results from these players in the future. Though sadly can't get hyped for this.
On September 09 2012 01:52 ChoboDane wrote: I cant believe people who would have preferred to see a foreigner in the final. Dont you guys like quality games?
As for myself, I'm looking much more forward to this final than TSL3 (which was awesome).
so if it's a korean player, the quality of games will always be better? Perhaps you don't understand how fanbase and fan interest works. People want to watch players they can relate to, players who have storylines, and generally players who have established themselves as big names. Life and Creator, while currently making names for themselves, haven't really done so to this point (the WCS win for Creator is pretty awesome though). Considering TSL was traditionally about getting big name non-koreans to dish it out and create some fun/exciting storylines, this is kind of the opposite. It just feels like a regular GSL match
no the quality of games will be better because these two players are way way way way way better than anyone outside of Korea. and no I dont understand this fanbase and fan interest thing. Why would you root for the inferior players?
Ask any sports fan who cheers for a team/player that doesn't win 100% of their games. Cheering only for winners is boring and seems stupid. Also there are lots of great players outside Korea that I doubt Life and Creator have played before so I find it hard to take that seriously.
On September 09 2012 01:52 ChoboDane wrote: I cant believe people who would have preferred to see a foreigner in the final. Dont you guys like quality games?
As for myself, I'm looking much more forward to this final than TSL3 (which was awesome).
so if it's a korean player, the quality of games will always be better? Perhaps you don't understand how fanbase and fan interest works. People want to watch players they can relate to, players who have storylines, and generally players who have established themselves as big names. Life and Creator, while currently making names for themselves, haven't really done so to this point (the WCS win for Creator is pretty awesome though). Considering TSL was traditionally about getting big name non-koreans to dish it out and create some fun/exciting storylines, this is kind of the opposite. It just feels like a regular GSL match
no the quality of games will be better because these two players are way way way way way better than anyone outside of Korea. and no I dont understand this fanbase and fan interest thing. Why would you root for the inferior players?
Ask any sports fan who cheers for a team/player that doesn't win 100% of their games. Cheering only for winners is boring and seems stupid. Also there are lots of great players outside Korea that I doubt Life and Creator have played before so I find it hard to take that seriously.
you would be a fool to argue Creator and Life arent leagues above any foreigner.
On September 09 2012 01:52 ChoboDane wrote: I cant believe people who would have preferred to see a foreigner in the final. Dont you guys like quality games?
As for myself, I'm looking much more forward to this final than TSL3 (which was awesome).
so if it's a korean player, the quality of games will always be better? Perhaps you don't understand how fanbase and fan interest works. People want to watch players they can relate to, players who have storylines, and generally players who have established themselves as big names. Life and Creator, while currently making names for themselves, haven't really done so to this point (the WCS win for Creator is pretty awesome though). Considering TSL was traditionally about getting big name non-koreans to dish it out and create some fun/exciting storylines, this is kind of the opposite. It just feels like a regular GSL match
no the quality of games will be better because these two players are way way way way way better than anyone outside of Korea. and no I dont understand this fanbase and fan interest thing. Why would you root for the inferior players?
You seem to have a major misunderstanding on how sports works. It doesn't actually matter if the games are shit. If the teams(or players in this case) have fans it will be a big deal anyway. It's almost journalists only that watch football games or hockey and say "amagad that was an amazing game". If Man U and Chelsea had NO fans and were about to encounter in a match in CL, do you think it'd be a big deal? The FANS are everything. Therefore I say that this TSL is a total failure. I know there is a lot of money on the line. I know a lot of players tried to qualify. I also know that basically nobody is going to watch the finals. Why? Go figure...
On September 09 2012 01:52 ChoboDane wrote: I cant believe people who would have preferred to see a foreigner in the final. Dont you guys like quality games?
As for myself, I'm looking much more forward to this final than TSL3 (which was awesome).
so if it's a korean player, the quality of games will always be better? Perhaps you don't understand how fanbase and fan interest works. People want to watch players they can relate to, players who have storylines, and generally players who have established themselves as big names. Life and Creator, while currently making names for themselves, haven't really done so to this point (the WCS win for Creator is pretty awesome though). Considering TSL was traditionally about getting big name non-koreans to dish it out and create some fun/exciting storylines, this is kind of the opposite. It just feels like a regular GSL match
no the quality of games will be better because these two players are way way way way way better than anyone outside of Korea. and no I dont understand this fanbase and fan interest thing. Why would you root for the inferior players?
You seem to have a major misunderstanding on how sports works. It doesn't actually matter if the games are shit. If the teams(or players in this case) have fans it will be a big deal anyway. It's almost journalists only that watch football games or hockey and say "amagad that was an amazing game". If Man U and Chelsea had NO fans and were about to encounter in a match in CL, do you think it'd be a big deal? The FANS are everything. Therefore I say that this TSL is a total failure. I know there is a lot of money on the line. I know a lot of players tried to qualify. I also know that basically nobody is going to watch the finals. Why? Go figure...
On September 09 2012 01:52 ChoboDane wrote: I cant believe people who would have preferred to see a foreigner in the final. Dont you guys like quality games?
As for myself, I'm looking much more forward to this final than TSL3 (which was awesome).
so if it's a korean player, the quality of games will always be better? Perhaps you don't understand how fanbase and fan interest works. People want to watch players they can relate to, players who have storylines, and generally players who have established themselves as big names. Life and Creator, while currently making names for themselves, haven't really done so to this point (the WCS win for Creator is pretty awesome though). Considering TSL was traditionally about getting big name non-koreans to dish it out and create some fun/exciting storylines, this is kind of the opposite. It just feels like a regular GSL match
no the quality of games will be better because these two players are way way way way way better than anyone outside of Korea. and no I dont understand this fanbase and fan interest thing. Why would you root for the inferior players?
You seem to have a major misunderstanding on how sports works. It doesn't actually matter if the games are shit. If the teams(or players in this case) have fans it will be a big deal anyway. It's almost journalists only that watch football games or hockey and say "amagad that was an amazing game". If Man U and Chelsea had NO fans and were about to encounter in a match in CL, do you think it'd be a big deal? The FANS are everything. Therefore I say that this TSL is a total failure. I know there is a lot of money on the line. I know a lot of players tried to qualify. I also know that basically nobody is going to watch the finals. Why? Go figure...
On September 09 2012 01:52 ChoboDane wrote: I cant believe people who would have preferred to see a foreigner in the final. Dont you guys like quality games?
As for myself, I'm looking much more forward to this final than TSL3 (which was awesome).
so if it's a korean player, the quality of games will always be better? Perhaps you don't understand how fanbase and fan interest works. People want to watch players they can relate to, players who have storylines, and generally players who have established themselves as big names. Life and Creator, while currently making names for themselves, haven't really done so to this point (the WCS win for Creator is pretty awesome though). Considering TSL was traditionally about getting big name non-koreans to dish it out and create some fun/exciting storylines, this is kind of the opposite. It just feels like a regular GSL match
no the quality of games will be better because these two players are way way way way way better than anyone outside of Korea. and no I dont understand this fanbase and fan interest thing. Why would you root for the inferior players?
You seem to have a major misunderstanding on how sports works. It doesn't actually matter if the games are shit. If the teams(or players in this case) have fans it will be a big deal anyway. It's almost journalists only that watch football games or hockey and say "amagad that was an amazing game". If Man U and Chelsea had NO fans and were about to encounter in a match in CL, do you think it'd be a big deal? The FANS are everything. Therefore I say that this TSL is a total failure. I know there is a lot of money on the line. I know a lot of players tried to qualify. I also know that basically nobody is going to watch the finals. Why? Go figure...
Who cares if random noobs watch or not?
obviously our arguments have flown right over your head so I'm done trying.
On September 09 2012 01:52 ChoboDane wrote: I cant believe people who would have preferred to see a foreigner in the final. Dont you guys like quality games?
We get exposure to quality higher-than-foreign-level games on daily basis, even 24/7 if you're counting streams. They're not that much of a commodity any more.
On September 09 2012 01:52 ChoboDane wrote: I cant believe people who would have preferred to see a foreigner in the final. Dont you guys like quality games?
We get exposure to quality higher-than-foreign-level games on daily basis, even 24/7 if you're counting streams. They're not that much of a commodity any more.
It's a rarity that players as good as Life and Creator stream.
I hope TSL5 ( and wish it come!) is like TSL 2 and 3. Both were incredibly awesome. And for the me the highest tier of tournaments.
because I moved in a foreign city and didn't have internet I travled 2 houres to the company of my father only to download the latest tsl2 games. It felt completly worth it, I never question that. TSL3 I watched very game life (coz I finally had inet).
So epic tournaments. The Idra game, the Mondragon action, The Thorzaine fighting. That only in TSL3. TSL2 with Mondragons walk through and the idra tyler rage game.. oh man.
If Koreans are that much stronger I think TSL4 should be like TSL2 a foreign tournament. That would be so amazing!
On September 09 2012 01:52 ChoboDane wrote: I cant believe people who would have preferred to see a foreigner in the final. Dont you guys like quality games?
As for myself, I'm looking much more forward to this final than TSL3 (which was awesome).
so if it's a korean player, the quality of games will always be better? Perhaps you don't understand how fanbase and fan interest works. People want to watch players they can relate to, players who have storylines, and generally players who have established themselves as big names. Life and Creator, while currently making names for themselves, haven't really done so to this point (the WCS win for Creator is pretty awesome though). Considering TSL was traditionally about getting big name non-koreans to dish it out and create some fun/exciting storylines, this is kind of the opposite. It just feels like a regular GSL match
So just say that FlaSh and Jaedong qualified and went to the finals and met each other in the finals. I bet no one would be bitching at all. They have story lines and fan base but they didn't start out that way these are great player let them build their legacy just cause its a Korean doesn't take away from the games at all . It almost seems like people are segregating players and not showing interests in games because people are KOREAN and not foreigner . It's sad .
On September 09 2012 05:51 Wrath 2.1 wrote: I hope TSL5 ( and wish it come!) is like TSL 2 and 3. Both were incredibly awesome. And for the me the highest tier of tournaments.
because I moved in a foreign city and didn't have internet I travled 2 houres to the company of my father only to download the latest tsl2 games. It felt completly worth it, I never question that. TSL3 I watched very game life (coz I finally had inet).
So epic tournaments. The Idra game, the Mondragon action, The Thorzaine fighting. That only in TSL3. TSL2 with Mondragons walk through and the idra tyler rage game.. oh man.
If Koreans are that much stronger I think TSL4 should be like TSL2 a foreign tournament. That would be so amazing!
I like watching foreigners don't get me wrong but was anyone who really loved broodwar any less interested in it cause Koreans won all the time ? Cause they actually gave a shit ? FlaSh and JaeDong , Boxer and Yellow etc etc were some of the best rivalries in eSports they were Korean and no one sAid they wouldn't watch tournaments they played in?
On September 09 2012 05:51 Wrath 2.1 wrote: I hope TSL5 ( and wish it come!) is like TSL 2 and 3. Both were incredibly awesome. And for the me the highest tier of tournaments.
because I moved in a foreign city and didn't have internet I travled 2 houres to the company of my father only to download the latest tsl2 games. It felt completly worth it, I never question that. TSL3 I watched very game life (coz I finally had inet).
So epic tournaments. The Idra game, the Mondragon action, The Thorzaine fighting. That only in TSL3. TSL2 with Mondragons walk through and the idra tyler rage game.. oh man.
If Koreans are that much stronger I think TSL4 should be like TSL2 a foreign tournament. That would be so amazing!
This is what I am talkin about
I dont know why theres no mention of TSL 1 in this. so lost. (EASILY, the best TSL imo). The reason these arent exclusive to foreigners is because in BroodWar, koreans were so far ahead it would have literally been a complete stomp out(as in maybe 1 game dropped to non koreans the entire time) In SC2, i think the gap may be getting there but it's def not there yet, so no need to be foreign only
On September 09 2012 01:52 ChoboDane wrote: I cant believe people who would have preferred to see a foreigner in the final. Dont you guys like quality games?
As for myself, I'm looking much more forward to this final than TSL3 (which was awesome).
so if it's a korean player, the quality of games will always be better? Perhaps you don't understand how fanbase and fan interest works. People want to watch players they can relate to, players who have storylines, and generally players who have established themselves as big names. Life and Creator, while currently making names for themselves, haven't really done so to this point (the WCS win for Creator is pretty awesome though). Considering TSL was traditionally about getting big name non-koreans to dish it out and create some fun/exciting storylines, this is kind of the opposite. It just feels like a regular GSL match
So just say that FlaSh and Jaedong qualified and went to the finals and met each other in the finals. I bet no one would be bitching at all. They have story lines and fan base but they didn't start out that way these are great player let them build their legacy just cause its a Korean doesn't take away from the games at all . It almost seems like people are segregating players and not showing interests in games because people are KOREAN and not foreigner . It's sad .
my post pretty much agrees with everything you're saying so I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. Obviously Flash and Jaedong playing would be huge because its...Flash and Jaedong. They have huge fanbases and we would all love to see it. Creator is sort of a newcomer on the international scene and same with Life since they haven't played in many big tournaments outside Korea that i can think of. I never said all koreans shouldn't get interest in their games. There are a ton of koreans who have built up huge fanbases throughout the sc2 era, and people have fallen in love with their personalities, i.e. MC, marineking, MVP, Nestea, DongRaeGu i could go on and on.
On September 09 2012 01:52 ChoboDane wrote: I cant believe people who would have preferred to see a foreigner in the final. Dont you guys like quality games?
As for myself, I'm looking much more forward to this final than TSL3 (which was awesome).
so if it's a korean player, the quality of games will always be better? Perhaps you don't understand how fanbase and fan interest works. People want to watch players they can relate to, players who have storylines, and generally players who have established themselves as big names. Life and Creator, while currently making names for themselves, haven't really done so to this point (the WCS win for Creator is pretty awesome though). Considering TSL was traditionally about getting big name non-koreans to dish it out and create some fun/exciting storylines, this is kind of the opposite. It just feels like a regular GSL match
So just say that FlaSh and Jaedong qualified and went to the finals and met each other in the finals. I bet no one would be bitching at all. They have story lines and fan base but they didn't start out that way these are great player let them build their legacy just cause its a Korean doesn't take away from the games at all . It almost seems like people are segregating players and not showing interests in games because people are KOREAN and not foreigner . It's sad .
my post pretty much agrees with everything you're saying so I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. Obviously Flash and Jaedong playing would be huge because its...Flash and Jaedong. They have huge fanbases and we would all love to see it. Creator is sort of a newcomer on the international scene and same with Life since they haven't played in many big tournaments outside Korea that i can think of. I never said all koreans shouldn't get interest in their games. There are a ton of koreans who have built up huge fanbases throughout the sc2 era, and people have fallen in love with their personalities, i.e. MC, marineking, MVP, Nestea, DongRaeGu i could go on and on.
No what I'm saying is that these newer players are gonna be the new Flashes and jaedongs of their era it's nice to see them make progress , peoPle need to see Korean players as players more then "oh another Korean /ignore"
On September 09 2012 01:52 ChoboDane wrote: I cant believe people who would have preferred to see a foreigner in the final. Dont you guys like quality games?
As for myself, I'm looking much more forward to this final than TSL3 (which was awesome).
so if it's a korean player, the quality of games will always be better? Perhaps you don't understand how fanbase and fan interest works. People want to watch players they can relate to, players who have storylines, and generally players who have established themselves as big names. Life and Creator, while currently making names for themselves, haven't really done so to this point (the WCS win for Creator is pretty awesome though). Considering TSL was traditionally about getting big name non-koreans to dish it out and create some fun/exciting storylines, this is kind of the opposite. It just feels like a regular GSL match
So just say that FlaSh and Jaedong qualified and went to the finals and met each other in the finals. I bet no one would be bitching at all. They have story lines and fan base but they didn't start out that way these are great player let them build their legacy just cause its a Korean doesn't take away from the games at all . It almost seems like people are segregating players and not showing interests in games because people are KOREAN and not foreigner . It's sad .
my post pretty much agrees with everything you're saying so I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. Obviously Flash and Jaedong playing would be huge because its...Flash and Jaedong. They have huge fanbases and we would all love to see it. Creator is sort of a newcomer on the international scene and same with Life since they haven't played in many big tournaments outside Korea that i can think of. I never said all koreans shouldn't get interest in their games. There are a ton of koreans who have built up huge fanbases throughout the sc2 era, and people have fallen in love with their personalities, i.e. MC, marineking, MVP, Nestea, DongRaeGu i could go on and on.
No what I'm saying is that these newer players are gonna be the new Flashes and jaedongs of their era
Somehow I doubt that. Some players will be the Flashes and Jaedongs of their era, but it won't be these two.
On September 09 2012 01:52 ChoboDane wrote: I cant believe people who would have preferred to see a foreigner in the final. Dont you guys like quality games?
As for myself, I'm looking much more forward to this final than TSL3 (which was awesome).
so if it's a korean player, the quality of games will always be better? Perhaps you don't understand how fanbase and fan interest works. People want to watch players they can relate to, players who have storylines, and generally players who have established themselves as big names. Life and Creator, while currently making names for themselves, haven't really done so to this point (the WCS win for Creator is pretty awesome though). Considering TSL was traditionally about getting big name non-koreans to dish it out and create some fun/exciting storylines, this is kind of the opposite. It just feels like a regular GSL match
So just say that FlaSh and Jaedong qualified and went to the finals and met each other in the finals. I bet no one would be bitching at all. They have story lines and fan base but they didn't start out that way these are great player let them build their legacy just cause its a Korean doesn't take away from the games at all . It almost seems like people are segregating players and not showing interests in games because people are KOREAN and not foreigner . It's sad .
my post pretty much agrees with everything you're saying so I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. Obviously Flash and Jaedong playing would be huge because its...Flash and Jaedong. They have huge fanbases and we would all love to see it. Creator is sort of a newcomer on the international scene and same with Life since they haven't played in many big tournaments outside Korea that i can think of. I never said all koreans shouldn't get interest in their games. There are a ton of koreans who have built up huge fanbases throughout the sc2 era, and people have fallen in love with their personalities, i.e. MC, marineking, MVP, Nestea, DongRaeGu i could go on and on.
No what I'm saying is that these newer players are gonna be the new Flashes and jaedongs of their era
Somehow I doubt that. Some players will be the Flashes and Jaedongs of their era, but it won't be these two.
On September 09 2012 01:52 ChoboDane wrote: I cant believe people who would have preferred to see a foreigner in the final. Dont you guys like quality games?
As for myself, I'm looking much more forward to this final than TSL3 (which was awesome).
so if it's a korean player, the quality of games will always be better? Perhaps you don't understand how fanbase and fan interest works. People want to watch players they can relate to, players who have storylines, and generally players who have established themselves as big names. Life and Creator, while currently making names for themselves, haven't really done so to this point (the WCS win for Creator is pretty awesome though). Considering TSL was traditionally about getting big name non-koreans to dish it out and create some fun/exciting storylines, this is kind of the opposite. It just feels like a regular GSL match
So just say that FlaSh and Jaedong qualified and went to the finals and met each other in the finals. I bet no one would be bitching at all. They have story lines and fan base but they didn't start out that way these are great player let them build their legacy just cause its a Korean doesn't take away from the games at all . It almost seems like people are segregating players and not showing interests in games because people are KOREAN and not foreigner . It's sad .
my post pretty much agrees with everything you're saying so I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. Obviously Flash and Jaedong playing would be huge because its...Flash and Jaedong. They have huge fanbases and we would all love to see it. Creator is sort of a newcomer on the international scene and same with Life since they haven't played in many big tournaments outside Korea that i can think of. I never said all koreans shouldn't get interest in their games. There are a ton of koreans who have built up huge fanbases throughout the sc2 era, and people have fallen in love with their personalities, i.e. MC, marineking, MVP, Nestea, DongRaeGu i could go on and on.
No what I'm saying is that these newer players are gonna be the new Flashes and jaedongs of their era
Somehow I doubt that. Some players will be the Flashes and Jaedongs of their era, but it won't be these two.
He is 16 life is 15 , these guys are Young and full of skill and talent
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Plexa/protosstest.png)
CreatorPrime < Ohana > ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Plexa/zergtest.png)
ST_Life
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Plexa/terrantest.png)
MVP_KeeN < Antiga Shipyard > ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/kr.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/vqYuG.gif)
