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On July 16 2012 22:42 Incomplet wrote:
You guys do realise that MC would have been preparing for Gsl code S RO4 in a few days against DRG? Sure it's great that he has beat mc and squirtle outside of Gsl, and it's great that he has won a whole heap of cash along the way, but If he really wants to prove that he is one of the best, he better get on that plane to Korea and get to a minimum of RO8.
I mean, look at naniwa, he lost a whole heap of respect from fans for his past actions, especially his probe rush during the infamous blizz cup game against nestea, but now he has redeemed himself with 2 consecutive ro8 on code s. Now look at the enormous amount of respect he has due to these achievements.... And he didn't even need to win the whole thing.
That's your opinion, not everyone's. Some praise GSL above everything, some (like me) consider it a tournament like the others. Harder to win than NASL3 or IPL3 ? Well, NASL and IPL qualifiers had the best korean and non korean attending, some didn't qualify for the pools play, some got kicked out in the pools play, some got stomped in the finals, and the winner is Stephano.
And what does Ro8 GSL prove ? That Naniwa is a great player and one of the best foreigners ? Nothing new here. And by your reasonning Jinro has done much better than Stephano in his carrier (... ?) Ro8 is not a win, and almost winning is losing (to DRG, who got beaten by Hero, who got beaten at NASL - while having time to prepare btw - by...well you get it).
Don't get me wrong, I have the biggest respect for Naniwa's play, he is imho along with Stephano the only foreigner with a very high and consistent level of performance, but to say who has accomplished more is a matter of point of view. I personally think Stephano has accomplished a lot more as he is more influent in the metagame and has won / placed well in a lot more events.
Oh, and GG Stephano, some amazing moments at the ceremony  A bit sad Alicia didn't get any recognition though 
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On July 16 2012 22:49 StreetWise wrote:
For all those that think Stephano needs to go to GSL instead of winning EZ mode tournaments, I am not sure you really get why he took off a year from school. He is more interested in making money than in being the best. Sure they do go somewhat hand in hand, but I don't think being the best, and only by definition of winning the GSL, is really something that matters to him. Being the best by definition of winning the most money is the bigger motivation. This in no way is a negative view of Stephano, in fact to me it shows that his decision making in real life is as good as his in game decision making.
I think you're forgetting that winning Gsl awards $87,000 usd. Even runner up will award almost te same amount as actually winning nasl yesterday.
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Playing in GSL: Sit allday in a crowded appartment and travel to the GSL-Studio every once in a while to fail/or not.
Playing other Tournaments: Traveling the world, meeting tons of people, seeing your fans...
Chosing the GSL over the other option seems really, really strange (and stupid) to me. No matter the money or whatever, the GSL just seems like a bad deal. Going there for 1 Season and kinda "bootcamping" in a Prohouse? Sure why not... Staying there just because some guys think "only GSL matters!!!"... No, sorry, that just does seem neither smart, exciting or fun...
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Since when does Gsl mean you're restricted to staying in s.korea? Look at mc, if he can travel around and perform in various tournaments, and make it to Gsl RO4, why can't others?
And of course for the foreigners, playing in Korea would also be part of "travelling around"
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Sorry if this is a bit off topic, I don't really know where to ask or look for my answer. Before NASL season 1, I recall Geoff talking about NASL having a $400k prize pool over 3 seasons, and something about a 100/100/200 distribution.
I just checked, and only $100k was distributed in NASL3 (and unfortunately for the winners, the money went all over the place).
Anyway, where's the last 100k? Gone for production/salaries, vanished or is it going toward a 4th season? Just curious. Cheers.
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I'm sorry if this has been answered already, but is there a way to see the matches? I'm from EU so I couldn't watch and I really want to see the finals
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On July 16 2012 23:38 Ylrahc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 22:42 Incomplet wrote:
You guys do realise that MC would have been preparing for Gsl code S RO4 in a few days against DRG? Sure it's great that he has beat mc and squirtle outside of Gsl, and it's great that he has won a whole heap of cash along the way, but If he really wants to prove that he is one of the best, he better get on that plane to Korea and get to a minimum of RO8.
I mean, look at naniwa, he lost a whole heap of respect from fans for his past actions, especially his probe rush during the infamous blizz cup game against nestea, but now he has redeemed himself with 2 consecutive ro8 on code s. Now look at the enormous amount of respect he has due to these achievements.... And he didn't even need to win the whole thing. That's your opinion, not everyone's. Some praise GSL above everything, some (like me) consider it a tournament like the others. Harder to win than NASL3 or IPL3 ? Well, NASL and IPL qualifiers had the best korean and non korean attending, some didn't qualify for the pools play, some got kicked out in the pools play, some got stomped in the finals, and the winner is Stephano. And what does Ro8 GSL prove ? That Naniwa is a great player and one of the best foreigners ? Nothing new here. And by your reasonning Jinro has done much better than Stephano in his carrier (... ?) Ro8 is not a win, and almost winning is losing (to DRG, who got beaten by Hero, who got beaten at NASL - while having time to prepare btw - by...well you get it). Don't get me wrong, I have the biggest respect for Naniwa's play, he is imho along with Stephano the only foreigner with a very high and consistent level of performance, but to say who has accomplished more is a matter of point of view. I personally think Stephano has accomplished a lot more as he is more influent in the metagame and has won / placed well in a lot more events. Oh, and GG Stephano, some amazing moments at the ceremony A bit sad Alicia didn't get any recognition though
I agree with pretty much everything you said.
Naniwa is great, but Stephano is clearly more influential and accomplished.
You don't see the Koreans talking about how they fear Naniwa or emulate his play... Stephano on the other hand is almost universally admired by the Koreans and he has had a huge part in changing how Zerg is played.
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This is what happens when you give Stephano only ZvP on his way to 30 000 :D
Such a baller! By far my favorite player!
Poor Alicia. I can't imagine him feeling too confident after seeing some of the best PvZ'ers fall before him.
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Is there any way to watch the final match if you re not subscribed to the NASL twitch channel ?
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i dont know where all the gsl talk started but im sorry if anyone thinks that its just another tournament. Sure the Nasl is awesome and has some great competitors but its not the same depth of talent that the gsl has mainly because the gsl is in korea the mecca of e-sports, anyone who disagrees is not fully informed or is delusional and there is no need to prove my points with facts because it has already been proven, this is one of the few non korea based tournaments where the koreans have not totally dominated. If you follow sc2 then you know i am right.
that being said staphano is great and i would love to see him compete at the top level in the gsl, however i dont think he needs to do this to prove anything, he has already accomplished so much and deserves all the praise he gets.
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On July 17 2012 00:03 Velr wrote:
Playing in GSL: Sit allday in a crowded appartment and travel to the GSL-Studio every once in a while to fail/or not.
Playing other Tournaments: Traveling the world, meeting tons of people, seeing your fans...
Chosing the GSL over the other option seems really, really strange (and stupid) to me. No matter the money or whatever, the GSL just seems like a bad deal. Going there for 1 Season and kinda "bootcamping" in a Prohouse? Sure why not... Staying there just because some guys think "only GSL matters!!!"... No, sorry, that just does seem neither smart, exciting or fun...
For Koreans, international tournaments mean dealing with jetlag unless you have time in your schedule to go early. And domestic fame is a much bigger deal for them.
Same reasoning why Swedish players e.g. Naniwa have in the past preferred Dreamhack over other clashing tournaments like MLG.
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Would have loved to see more Terrans . What a sweep though
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Hope to see Stephano in the gsl !
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Where can I find replays for NASL?
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On July 16 2012 23:38 Ylrahc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 22:42 Incomplet wrote:
You guys do realise that MC would have been preparing for Gsl code S RO4 in a few days against DRG? Sure it's great that he has beat mc and squirtle outside of Gsl, and it's great that he has won a whole heap of cash along the way, but If he really wants to prove that he is one of the best, he better get on that plane to Korea and get to a minimum of RO8.
I mean, look at naniwa, he lost a whole heap of respect from fans for his past actions, especially his probe rush during the infamous blizz cup game against nestea, but now he has redeemed himself with 2 consecutive ro8 on code s. Now look at the enormous amount of respect he has due to these achievements.... And he didn't even need to win the whole thing. That's your opinion, not everyone's. Some praise GSL above everything, some (like me) consider it a tournament like the others. Harder to win than NASL3 or IPL3 ? Well, NASL and IPL qualifiers had the best korean and non korean attending, some didn't qualify for the pools play, some got kicked out in the pools play, some got stomped in the finals, and the winner is Stephano.
The point is not "the best are there", but rather the kind of risks and exposure you must endure to actually reach a certain point. The density of dangeoursly good players is simply higher in Korean tournaments; it is not an accident that qualifiers often feature as many upsets as expected results. Going through MC is hard, but going through MC and a half-dozen decent koreans would be much harder. SC2, at least right now, is a very volatile and punishing game. Furthermore, the schedule allows you to build up another layer of skill in opponent-specific training and match preparation (albeit one could say that this is actually a way for "worse" players to win out of trickery or metagame/map abuse).
This is not diminish Stephano's achievement or skill level (I am actually a fan myself, albeit I do have a hard time standing the hype/fanboyism/etc.), but to suggest that there are legitimate reasons for which the GSL is still considered a mecca tournament rather than one among many. Of course, this does not mean that running in it makes sense from a career standpoint.
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On July 17 2012 06:07 WigglingSquid wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 23:38 Ylrahc wrote:On July 16 2012 22:42 Incomplet wrote:
You guys do realise that MC would have been preparing for Gsl code S RO4 in a few days against DRG? Sure it's great that he has beat mc and squirtle outside of Gsl, and it's great that he has won a whole heap of cash along the way, but If he really wants to prove that he is one of the best, he better get on that plane to Korea and get to a minimum of RO8.
I mean, look at naniwa, he lost a whole heap of respect from fans for his past actions, especially his probe rush during the infamous blizz cup game against nestea, but now he has redeemed himself with 2 consecutive ro8 on code s. Now look at the enormous amount of respect he has due to these achievements.... And he didn't even need to win the whole thing. That's your opinion, not everyone's. Some praise GSL above everything, some (like me) consider it a tournament like the others. Harder to win than NASL3 or IPL3 ? Well, NASL and IPL qualifiers had the best korean and non korean attending, some didn't qualify for the pools play, some got kicked out in the pools play, some got stomped in the finals, and the winner is Stephano. The point is not "the best are there", but rather the kind of risks and exposure you must endure to actually reach a certain point. The density of dangeoursly good players is simply higher in Korean tournaments; it is not an accident that qualifiers often feature as many upsets as expected results. Going through MC is hard, but going through MC and a half-dozen decent koreans would be much harder. SC2, at least right now, is a very volatile and punishing game. Furthermore, the schedule allows you to build up another layer of skill in opponent-specific training and match preparation (albeit one could say that this is actually a way for "worse" players to win out of trickery or metagame/map abuse). This is not diminish Stephano's achievement or skill level (I am actually a fan myself, albeit I do have a hard time standing the hype/fanboyism/etc.), but to suggest that there are legitimate reasons for which the GSL is still considered a mecca tournament rather than one among many. Of course, this does not mean that running in it makes sense from a career standpoint.
I agree. I see the GSL as the 'champions league' of e-sports, especially given how much preparation and time dedication will help you towards winning. We still see the highest level games there, in my opionion.
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GSL format allows every player to show the best play he can possibly achieve. Sometimes it leads to inferior player winning the games against a superior one by simply analyzing his playstyle and responding accordingly, but this just leads to players creating more versatile build orders that can allow them to counter more stuff, creating "meta builds".
DRG, Stephano, MarineKing play insanely good in tournaments like these because their mechanics are simply better. I don't want to lessen the ability of Stephano, but it is to be seen if he is suited for GSL, because of the format it causes a lot of players who play way better than Stephano fall off. You should consider GSL as a huge poker tournament: your cards may get seen, your face may show something off or your opponent might just be a better player. There is a million things where you can be outplayed even before the game started and even in game a single mistake against a code-S player might cause you to lose.
Playing GSL and NASL is like playing two different games all together. If you do like GSL, you might as well say that NASL-type leagues level do not matter and if you like GSL, then whatever other leagues do not matter(well, OSL does matter).
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EPT
