Alicia invited Stephano to play a macro game with him in game one, but it ended up being an invitation for disaster. Stephano comfortably built up on four bases and then crushed Alicia's first push forward with infestors, roaches and lings (off-target force-fields didn't help). DT harass from Alicia allowed him to stay in the game for a bit longer, but Stephano's easy transition into a perfect hive composition meant that his fate was already sealed. Without even a mothership or templar tech, Alicia went down in a heap.
Stephano 1 - 0 Alicia
Game Two – Shakuras Plateau
Alicia opened up with a cannon rush to destroy Stephano's natural in game two, but it was hard to say it was a success. Stephano simply took even more hatcheries at other bases, seemingly more than happy to give up his natural when it was costing his opponent two pylons and three cannons to kill it.
In the end, everything played out ideally for Stephano, as he built up a powerhouse economy despite the cannon rush, and also completely thwarted Alicia's stargate + warp prism follow-up. Having done virtually nothing to hamper Stephano, Alicia fell meekly once more when Stephano decided to attack.
Stephano 2 - 0 Alicia
Game Three – Antiga Shipyard
Alicia's second attempt to play a macro game started off poorly, as Stephano's roach-ling pressure blew up a large number of Protoss units when Alicia tried to take his third base. Still, Alicia managed to take his third successfully and was able to find a window to attack with stalkers and colossi. Phoenixes picked off some errant infestors that Stephano needed on defense, and it looked for a second that Stephano could be in danger. However, Stephano turned out to be perfectly alright, making sure to destroy all of Alicia's colossi with his first wave of units and then reloading with zerglings to defend with ease. Alicia didn't have enough left to stop the counter-attack, and had to concede a three game lead to Stephano.
Stephano 3 - 0 Alicia
Game Four – Daybreak
The final card for Alicia was a desperation 8-gate all-in, but even that wasn't enough to earn him at least one win in the series. Stephano swatted aside the all-in with almost comical ease, concluding the 4 - 0 sweep.
Alicia opened up with a typical FE-stargate build with a mind to take a quick third, but made a fatal mistake when he allowed some probing speedlings to wipe out the key sentries he needed on defense. Put in a very difficult situation, Alicia decided to switch gears to going for a two base all-in instead, but that attack was easily stopped by Ret's roach + infestor composition.
Ret 1 - 0 Alicia
Game Two – Ohana
Ret changed it up in game two, going for a muta-ling style to look for holes in Alicia's three base defense. Initially, Alicia had a handle on the probing mutalisks and speedlings, but eventually he made one crucial positioning mistake that allowed speedlings to tear down his third nexus. It was all downhill for Alicia from there on out. He massed his troops for one big attack on Ret, was thwarted, and then fell to Ret's stream of units.
Ret 2 - 0 Alicia
Game Three – Shakuras Plateau
Ret looked like he was far, far ahead after thwarting Alicia's sentry drop and droning up massively. However, Alicia didn't squander his one shot to win, barging his way up Ret's ramp with his army and force-fielding Ret's troops out of his own main. This allowed him to overcome what was at one point a 90 supply difference, earning him a lifeline in the series.
Alicia 1 - 2 Ret
Game Four – Daybreak
Alicia's game against Ret on Daybreak played out much like his teammate Puzzle's earlier in the day. After both players secured a strong economic base on their respective sides of the map, the fireworks began. Again, it was ultimately Ret's inability to deal with his opponents harassment that lost him the game, as the constant disruption to his economy meant that once his first brood lord - infestor force was gone, he was in serious trouble trying to replace it. It went even easier for Alicia than Puzzle in a way, as he landed the big vortex that his teammate couldn't quite get. After wiping out Ret's first big army, all Alicia had to do was pick up the pieces.
Alicia 2 - 2 Ret
Game Five – Dual Sight
Though he executed a successful defense against Puzzle's void ray + gateway units all-in on the very same map, Ret ended up falling to a similar strategy from Alicia. Unaware of Alicia's plan and with his army terribly out of place, Ret was forced to give up his third hatchery entirely for free. The two players continued to build up from that state, Alicia adding immortals and blink upgrade to his army, while Ret was forced to stay largely on roaches. The outcome of the ensuing clash was an inevitable Protoss victory.
Alicia 3 - 2 Ret
Game Six – Bel'Shir Beach
Alicia finished off the series with the new Protoss standard, the two immortal push. Good force-fields rendered Ret's roaches powerless, and Alicia completed the 4 - 0 comeback after going down 0 - 2 to start.
Game one was the straight up duel everyone had been waiting for, with MC going for standard three base play while Stephano went for his famous roach-ling pressure. After a period of extended fighting, MC was able to secure his third base for good and got to work building an army to try and finish Stephano before he reached hive.
Stephano ended up having to fight one major battle with just lair units before his greater spire could finally finish, and it looked for a moment as if MC's mastery of timings was going to win him yet another game. But with good use of infestors and positioning, Stephano was able to get just enough breathing room to get his crucial brood lords out.
Without a mothership or a templar archives, MC was immediately put on the back foot. Though he did his best to fight Stephano with blink stalkers and colossi, Stephano's end game composition was just too strong and efficient to overcome. Slowly but surely, Stephano wore away at MC's forces until he earned the GG.
Stephano 1 - 0 MC
Game Two – Cloud Kingdom
After another typical three-base vs three-base build up, Stephano decided to throw a curve-ball in MC's direction. Instead of the relentless roach-ling attacks he became famous for, Stephano instead went for surprise mutalisks, rendering MC's robotics tech useless. Though he only did a moderate amount of economic damage with his mutalisks, Stephano was able to tie MC up while he secured more bases and teched safely up to hive.
MC ended up unable to exploit any kind of timing against Stephano, and the brood lords came out almost entirely unopposed. At the same time, MC wasn't able to get the tech to fight the brood lords properly either, and he was once again chipped to death by the brood lord + infestor combination.
Stephano 2 - 0 MC
Game Three – Cloud Kingdom
MC continued to hold back from using his famous all-in plays, going for fast three bases once more on Daybreak. Stephano tried the popular roach pressure into drops to try and hurt MC before his defenses were set, but good army positioning from MC allowed him to hold on all fronts.
With his attack thwarted, the onus then shifted onto Stephano to defend his own fourth base while he rushed up to hive. However, there wasn't any clutch defense from Stephano as MC was able to bulldoze through with a colossus supported army. Particularly notable was his use of the phoenixes he had preserved from his opener, which flew in to lift up all of Stephano's crucial infestors before the final fight.
MC 1 - 2 Stephano
Game Four – Bel'Shir Beach
The first MC all-in came on Bel'Shir beach, as he followed up a standard 4-gate pressure build with dark templars. At first it looked as if MC's strategy was going to be a brilliant success, as three DTs went to work on hacking down Stephano's lair. However, Stephano used drone-clipping to force the DT's off the lair, saving it just in time. Though MC was able to kill the lair later with two more dark templars, at that point his DTs had ceased to be cost effective.
Having spent so much money on largely ineffective DT tech, MC had only the option to follow-up and try to win with a blink-stalker attack. That attack, too, was easily handled by Stephano who took an even larger lead. When MC tried to take his third base after, Stephano rolled him over with roaches and infestors to take the 3 - 1 lead.
Stephano 3 - 1 MC
Game Five – Ohana
It wouldn't be an MC series without a successful two base attack. MC found a way to get his stargate + gateway units all-in to work, exploiting Stephano's late roaches to get an easy victory.
MC 2 - 3 Stephano
Game Six – Shakuras Plateau
After some unsuccessful early pressure, MC put down a third nexus and took on the intimidating task of defending two unconnected entrances on Shakuras Plateau. Stephano started pumping pure ling-roach, determined to break through the defenses. A feint at one of MC's bases opened up a weakness in the defenses at the other, allowing roaches and lings to stream in. MC attempted to plug the hole, but the dam had already been breached. Stephano continued to send his troops MC's way, earning the final GG in the end.
Alicia took a small lead early, using his stalkers to pick off some of HuK's units while HuK rushed to robotics facility. Other than that, the game developed fairly evenly as both players ended up making immortals and blink-stalkers on one base.
The turning point in the game came when Alicia snuck four stalkers into HuK's main while HuK's main force was far out on the map, and the lack of an effective defensive warp-in from HuK led him to take a large amount of economic damage. Already down on economy, HuK made a poor decision to blink forward into immortals when the two main forces clashed in the center of map, and he GG'd out soon after.
Alicia 1 - 0 HuK
Game Two – Shakuras Plateau
Alicia decided to go two-gate into expansion on Shakuras while HuK stayed on one base and tried to apply some pressure off of three gates. However, his plan did not work out well at all, as Alicia was able to easily destroy HuK's attacking force with good use of force-fields. HuK decided that it was too late to catch up in expansions, and rushed towards getting archons for an all-in, one base push. However, Alicia's defense was more than good enough once more, and HuK conceded the second set.
Alicia 2 - 0 HuK
Game Three – Ohana
As is common on Ohana, both Protoss players fast expanded and passively built up armies. With two colossi, HuK decided it was time to attack, but Alicia had four colossi of his own on defense, allowing him to come up with a significant supply lead after the battle. Alicia secured his third base, built up his army some more, and went in for the kill.
Puzzle opened up with a 4-gate + 1 pressure into 7-gate blink all-in to make his Canadian debut. However, imperfect micro from Puzzle and a great surround from Ret caused the all-in to fail miserably, putting Ret massively ahead.
Although Puzzle tried to salvage the game by taking his third base, he was eventually forced to GG out after getting continuously pummeled by Ret's attacks.
Ret 1 - 0 Puzzle
Game Two – Daybreak
The game played out in fairly standard Daybreak fashion, and both players ended up mining their fill of resources as they split control of the map down the middle. Around the critical juncture where Ret transitioned into brood lords, Puzzle began to use warp-prisms for zealot harassment. Ret was unable to deal with the harassment well, but was able to clean it up well enough to gather his brood lords and infestors for a big attack.
Puzzle seemed to be in trouble as Ret's slow army cut a path into his territory, but he was eventually able to hold the line with a mothership. The attack was almost worth it for Ret, but he made the crucial mistake of leaving a red HP nexus alive to continue mining for Puzzle. At the same time, Puzzle was continuing to use his warp-prisms to damage Ret's economy, and Puzzle soon had a superior economy. Puzzle quickly put together an overwhelming army to end the game.
Puzzle 1 - 1 Ret
Game Three – Dual Sight
Not surprisingly, Puzzle opted for an all-in on Dual Sight, going for a void ray assisted gateway attack. However, Ret's defense proved to be more than solid enough to thwart Puzzle's plan, and he overran him with roaches to retake the lead in the series.
Ret 2 - 1 Puzzle
Game Four – Ohana
With his tournament life on the line, Puzzle gambled and lost. He attempted to go for two-stargates after taking his natural, only to be scouted out by Ret's overlord. To Puzzle's credit, that wasn't the end of the game right there, as he managed to do a small amount of damage with his stargate units while transitioning into a normal game plan.
However, Puzzle didn't have an answer ready in time for Ret's eventual brood lord + infestor composition. A blink-forward was able to take out all the brood lords, but the supporting infestor – roach forces were able to clean up the rest of Puzzle's forces and end the series.
Stephano opened up with his standard three base build while HerO elected to go for a forge FE – Stargate – fast third nexus build. Needing excellent micro to hold such a quick third base, HerO instead reacted horribly late to Stephano's roach-ling pressure. The lings destroyed several sentries before any force-fields went up, allowing Stephano to funnel in roaches and lings until HerO was forced to GG.
Stephano 1 - 0 HerO
Game Two – Daybreak
After losing game one due to inattentiveness, HerO showed what he could do when things went more to plan. Starting with another FE-Stargate open, HerO was able to defend against roach-ling perfectly with force-fields and took his third base. HerO then quickly built up a dangerous blink stalker + colossus army, catching Stephano before hive with only a weak roach-infestor army. Stephano couldn't hold off the attack and was forced to concede the set.
HerO 1 - 1 Stephano
Game Three – Antiga Shipyard
HerO decided to break out some of his cheesier tactics in game three, offensive cannoning Stephano's third base to destroy it. However, HerO spent a fair amount of minerals on cannons and pylons, and Stephano didn't look to be particularly behind as he transitioned to zerglings and infestors off of two bases. After Stephano successfully held against HerO's follow-up voidray + 6-gate attack, the game settled at a surprisingly even state, sixteen minutes in.
Both Stephano and HerO built up strong end-game compositions off of three bases, and with mains mining out, the key point of the game shifted to who could take and keep a fourth base.
Tthe pivotal battle was sparked when Stephano started to lay siege to HerO's newly built fourth base, forcing an engagement from the mothership supported Protoss army. Good spreading from brood lords meant that the effect of vortex was kept to a minimum, and Stephano was able to win a crushing victory to take the 2 – 1 lead.
Stephano 2 - 1 HerO
Game Four – Shakuras Plateau
Facing elimination, HerO went for the build that has been the ace in the hole for many a Protoss player, the two base immortal all-in. However, after getting soundly beaten by that build at DreamHack Summer, Stephano had no intention of repeating his mistakes, and soundly crushed HerO's attack with good surrounds.
It looked all but over for HerO, but somehow he managed to hold out. Stephano was content to take take a fourth base and continued to send roaches HerO's way to trade, but in the process he ended up trading poorly too many times. This allowed HerO one single timing where he massed up a large group of stalkers, immortals, and colossi for a large attack.
Unfortunately for HerO, Stephano's roach-infestor defense was just barely enough for him to hang on. In the end, he was able to buy enough time for brood lords, and that was the end of the road for the Liquid Protoss.
Though there was a little bit of light pressure from PuMa early on as MC went for a very fast third base, the game opened up as basically a straight build-up to 200/200 for both players. Around sixteen minutes in the two players met for the first and last major engagement of the game, where high templars dropped from a warp prism were able to completely annihilate PuMa's army.
MC 1 - 0 PuMa
Game Two – Antiga Shipyard
With PuMa going for a standard fast expansion opening, MC decided to try for the two base blink stalker + warp prisms /w sentries build he attempted multiple times against TaeJa just a few days ago. Unlike TaeJa, however, PuMa was not expecting the strategy and allowed MC to successfully blink stalkers into his main while sentries force-fielded off the ramp.
PuMa was able to fend off the stalkers after taking heavy damage, but was left with almost nothing left for the follow-up attack of dark templars. Seeing the cloaked assassins warping in his main, PuMa GG'd out.
MC 2 - 0 PuMa
Game Three – Shakuras Plateau
Drawing horizontal positions on Antiga Shipyard, MC opted to go for a risky one base blink stalker + observer build to exploit the backdoor corridor on the map. His gambit ended up paying off, as his harassment did enough damage to more than make up for PuMa's faster expansion. MC moved on to take his own expansion, while adding in DT tech to continue to make PuMa's life difficult.
Having taken quite a bit of damage from MC's Stalker and DT attacks, PuMa decided he needed to make something happen or else he would just be overwhelmed by MC's superior economy in the near future. He gathered his marines, marauders, and medivacs for one last ditch push, but MC's zealots, stalkers and archons were more than enough to earn the final GG.
Nope, MC is not going to win. Stephano is going to win, just like MC lost his PvZ against Nerchio at HSC. MC stands no chance against Zerg! OK, maybe I'm a little over-confident, but I truly believe in the race of Zerg. Go Stephano!!!
Just to say, homepage says that Ret just "booking him a match against MC in the semi-finals." Which isn't quite true... That was stephano hence the arguements ^. Ret will face winner of Alicia vs Huk
wow these casters...... "I DONT KNOW HOW STEPHANO DID IT"..... Well When you have 68389294924 minerals saved up as Zerg and you lose a decent amount of your army what do you do? ............Build 400 zerglings. thats how you beat a main stalker army
On July 15 2012 08:06 Jornada wrote: wow these casters...... "I DONT KNOW HOW STEPHANO DID IT"..... Well When you have 68389294924 minerals saved up as Zerg and you lose a decent amount of your army what do you do? ............Build 400 zerglings. thats how you beat a main stalker army
It's called marvelling at the skill with which Stephano engaged.
It's called exciting casting.
It's a way to describe the sheer skill that Stephano used to execute that engagement. (See how he baited MC away from a choked engagement, a place where he got a superior concave? He forced this by saccing his fourth and threatening Broods. That's some tip-top play right there)
Wow. That game literally came down to Stephano forcing the Blink which cost MC his Immortals. Fcking hell, this guy's battle micro, his positioning and execution is absolutely insane. Think back to his engagements vs Sase and MKP in MLG, too. Wow.
I am starting to get particularly frustrated at how no caster gives Stephano the credit specifically for things he does to win games. I'll get more in to this later on.
I'm also starting to get agitated by casters calling Stephano 'amazing' for a split second and always saying 'I don't know how he does it' without actually giving him the credit he deserves: actually analyzing why he is so brilliant.
The last thing that frustrates me is unrelated and a personal thing, which is Artosis who usually gives credit where credit is due when it comes to amazing Starcraft, but I've never seen him fanboy up to Stephano who I consider the most intelligent zerg on the planet, though I do think Symbol does some things better.
Why is it that no caster actually analyzes or gives anything more than a passing comment to the way Stephano engages his army in every single game. There is no player to ever exist in Starcraft II that engages their army as well as Stephano does. He spends ages baiting armies so he gets better positioning or spends ages not attacking because the outcome of the fight would be uncertain were he to engage.
Also, Stephano's decision making is leagues above anyone else, in that he understands when he should be making units, when he should be collecting larva due to the uncertainty of what the enemy is doing, or switching unit compositions drastically and fluently (even more fluently than Symbol).
Though in the end, despite people glorifying Stephano's lack of practice whilst being so good, I get the feeling when I watch him that he actually doesn't practice as much as he should, though I don't understand where this feeling comes from because rationally it isn't justified, but it is a strong feeling and strong enough for myself to justify writing this.
It is just something that annoys me, that there isn't caster that ever actually explains why what Stephano is doing is brilliant as opposed to making shallow remarks like 'amazing' or 'I don't understand how he just did that!', even though I can clearly see the underlying reason why what Stephano did was amazing decision making even though my game knowledge pretty much blows in comparison to these casters. This isn't just directed at Mr.Bitter and Rotterdam, but all the other casters from major events too.
So funny... In this part of the US, when someone says "I dont know how you do it" it means theyre amazed at how that person can do it because they themselves cannott do it. It is actually a compliment! The casters are American so When they say "I dont know how Stephano does it" it means Stephano is waaay beyond their skill level that they dont know how to do what he does. Geez.
On another note...great games...so heartbreaking to see Huk fall like that...
On July 15 2012 10:37 Chengakz wrote: So funny... In this part of the US, when someone says "I dont know how you do it" it means theyre amazed at how that person can do it because they themselves cannott do it. It is actually a compliment! The casters are American so When they say "I dont know how Stephano does it" it means Stephano is waaay beyond their skill level that they dont know how to do what he does. Geez.
On another note...great games...so heartbreaking to see Huk fall like that...
Yeah its fun to be a hype machine with cliches, and casters do it well. Still good casting right now though
I'm heartbroken for Ret. It looks like Alicia figured him out and countered his playstyle. You did marvelous though, you're almost there Ret, don't give up!
On July 15 2012 13:22 thoraxe wrote: I'm heartbroken for Ret. It looks like Alicia figured him out and countered his playstyle. You did marvelous though, you're almost there Ret, don't give up!
I'm not sure how Ret lost after being up 2-0. In the first two games he macroed very aggressively, but for some reason in game 3 and beyond his drone counts were much lower at the same times, he was slower to drop his 3rd hatch and he rushed out tech that was not needed.
Alica and Ret were good set of games. I am disappointed in MC and Stephano, thought MC would of done better maybe not win but have a 4-3 loss.Im looking forward to tomorrows Stephano vs Alica. As a toss player, i do root on for Alica. However, Stephano is the best z foreigner and is the player who can beat most koreans which includes Alica.
On July 15 2012 10:27 Seluance wrote: I am starting to get particularly frustrated at how no caster gives Stephano the credit specifically for things he does to win games. I'll get more in to this later on.
I'm also starting to get agitated by casters calling Stephano 'amazing' for a split second and always saying 'I don't know how he does it' without actually giving him the credit he deserves: actually analyzing why he is so brilliant.
The last thing that frustrates me is unrelated and a personal thing, which is Artosis who usually gives credit where credit is due when it comes to amazing Starcraft, but I've never seen him fanboy up to Stephano who I consider the most intelligent zerg on the planet, though I do think Symbol does some things better.
Why is it that no caster actually analyzes or gives anything more than a passing comment to the way Stephano engages his army in every single game. There is no player to ever exist in Starcraft II that engages their army as well as Stephano does. He spends ages baiting armies so he gets better positioning or spends ages not attacking because the outcome of the fight would be uncertain were he to engage.
Also, Stephano's decision making is leagues above anyone else, in that he understands when he should be making units, when he should be collecting larva due to the uncertainty of what the enemy is doing, or switching unit compositions drastically and fluently (even more fluently than Symbol).
Though in the end, despite people glorifying Stephano's lack of practice whilst being so good, I get the feeling when I watch him that he actually doesn't practice as much as he should, though I don't understand where this feeling comes from because rationally it isn't justified, but it is a strong feeling and strong enough for myself to justify writing this.
It is just something that annoys me, that there isn't caster that ever actually explains why what Stephano is doing is brilliant as opposed to making shallow remarks like 'amazing' or 'I don't understand how he just did that!', even though I can clearly see the underlying reason why what Stephano did was amazing decision making even though my game knowledge pretty much blows in comparison to these casters. This isn't just directed at Mr.Bitter and Rotterdam, but all the other casters from major events too.
Very well put, I agree. His engagements are just unreal. I've said before I think his micro/engagements are just amazing. See his games vs MKP and Sase in MLG - and vs. MC yesterday. He beat a +3 Blink Stalker/Sentry/3Immortal push with 0 1 Roaches. I mean - what - the - f*ck!?!? Amazing. He engaged in a better concave, and although he got FFed, he isolated MCs Immortals. That son it for him. Similarly, he baited Ret's death all on Antiga to waste FF so that he could engage with a biter concave in a FFless battle.
On July 15 2012 10:27 Seluance wrote: I am starting to get particularly frustrated at how no caster gives Stephano the credit specifically for things he does to win games. I'll get more in to this later on.
I'm also starting to get agitated by casters calling Stephano 'amazing' for a split second and always saying 'I don't know how he does it' without actually giving him the credit he deserves: actually analyzing why he is so brilliant.
The last thing that frustrates me is unrelated and a personal thing, which is Artosis who usually gives credit where credit is due when it comes to amazing Starcraft, but I've never seen him fanboy up to Stephano who I consider the most intelligent zerg on the planet, though I do think Symbol does some things better.
Why is it that no caster actually analyzes or gives anything more than a passing comment to the way Stephano engages his army in every single game. There is no player to ever exist in Starcraft II that engages their army as well as Stephano does. He spends ages baiting armies so he gets better positioning or spends ages not attacking because the outcome of the fight would be uncertain were he to engage.
Also, Stephano's decision making is leagues above anyone else, in that he understands when he should be making units, when he should be collecting larva due to the uncertainty of what the enemy is doing, or switching unit compositions drastically and fluently (even more fluently than Symbol).
Though in the end, despite people glorifying Stephano's lack of practice whilst being so good, I get the feeling when I watch him that he actually doesn't practice as much as he should, though I don't understand where this feeling comes from because rationally it isn't justified, but it is a strong feeling and strong enough for myself to justify writing this.
It is just something that annoys me, that there isn't caster that ever actually explains why what Stephano is doing is brilliant as opposed to making shallow remarks like 'amazing' or 'I don't understand how he just did that!', even though I can clearly see the underlying reason why what Stephano did was amazing decision making even though my game knowledge pretty much blows in comparison to these casters. This isn't just directed at Mr.Bitter and Rotterdam, but all the other casters from major events too.
HuK, so disappointing, I don't expect anything from him anymore, why is he so bad in every tournament now...Even lost to Scarlett, isn't it? A semi pro for me
Gotta love Stephano! As he usually takes one or two tourneys to adjust and prepare for specific korean top pros ( Polt, Mc..) and Alicia is a very intelligent player, the finals could still be very interesting.
I also think that people missjudge Stephano's training methods. Partly because he wants them to missjudge in order to start from a seamingly weak position into a tourney. Instead of practicing 8 hours a day only to boast about korean practice times he seems to deliberatly prepare for specific opponents. Opponents of which he said, he can only really train new ideas on in a real tournanement. But boy does he come with a good understanding of those opponents play in the following tournament!
On July 15 2012 19:57 Hds wrote: HuK, so disappointing, I don't expect anything from him anymore, why is he so bad in every tournament now...Even lost to Scarlett, isn't it? A semi pro for me
He did really well at the last DH. Only getting knocked out by Stephano
On July 15 2012 19:57 Hds wrote: HuK, so disappointing, I don't expect anything from him anymore, why is he so bad in every tournament now...Even lost to Scarlett, isn't it? A semi pro for me
Well HuK isn't ahead with his good unitcontrol anymore and his results will decline even more. The players that create new strategies are the ones now that leads the metagame beacause all the pros at toplevel have quite similar multitasking and micro.
On July 15 2012 19:57 Hds wrote: HuK, so disappointing, I don't expect anything from him anymore, why is he so bad in every tournament now...Even lost to Scarlett, isn't it? A semi pro for me
On July 15 2012 19:57 Hds wrote: HuK, so disappointing, I don't expect anything from him anymore, why is he so bad in every tournament now...Even lost to Scarlett, isn't it? A semi pro for me
Well HuK isn't ahead with his good unitcontrol anymore and his results will decline even more. The players that create new strategies are the ones now that leads the metagame beacause all the pros at toplevel have quite similar multitasking and micro.
True, I think it has been this for HuK all his career also in SC2, reliying on his awesome micro. But even I can see from a master perspective that some of his build orders are rather coinflippy and not always as refined as they could be.
I'm not exactly sure how Huk was so good in 2011. His PvP was definitely tremendous, see Orlando and previous. I think there is some credence to claims of him having PvP roads to finals, though I'm not too sure. The reason for my confusion is his, frankly horrible builds in some MUs, namely vs T and vs Z. Not all the time, but often he plays really sloppily.
I am starting to get particularly frustrated at how no caster gives Stephano the credit specifically for things he does to win games. I'll get more in to this later on.
I'm also starting to get agitated by casters calling Stephano 'amazing' for a split second and always saying 'I don't know how he does it' without actually giving him the credit he deserves: actually analyzing why he is so brilliant.
The last thing that frustrates me is unrelated and a personal thing, which is Artosis who usually gives credit where credit is due when it comes to amazing Starcraft, but I've never seen him fanboy up to Stephano who I consider the most intelligent zerg on the planet, though I do think Symbol does some things better.
Why is it that no caster actually analyzes or gives anything more than a passing comment to the way Stephano engages his army in every single game. There is no player to ever exist in Starcraft II that engages their army as well as Stephano does. He spends ages baiting armies so he gets better positioning or spends ages not attacking because the outcome of the fight would be uncertain were he to engage.
Also, Stephano's decision making is leagues above anyone else, in that he understands when he should be making units, when he should be collecting larva due to the uncertainty of what the enemy is doing, or switching unit compositions drastically and fluently (even more fluently than Symbol).
Though in the end, despite people glorifying Stephano's lack of practice whilst being so good, I get the feeling when I watch him that he actually doesn't practice as much as he should, though I don't understand where this feeling comes from because rationally it isn't justified, but it is a strong feeling and strong enough for myself to justify writing this.
It is just something that annoys me, that there isn't caster that ever actually explains why what Stephano is doing is brilliant as opposed to making shallow remarks like 'amazing' or 'I don't understand how he just did that!', even though I can clearly see the underlying reason why what Stephano did was amazing decision making even though my game knowledge pretty much blows in comparison to these casters. This isn't just directed at Mr.Bitter and Rotterdam, but all the other casters from major events too.
Bitterdam specifically dont know jack shit about casting, all they do is yell and complain and glorify the things that are going on at the same moment as force fields or units moving or a unit about to pop out. Never any analysis of whats going on in the background really.
I'm fairly sure they know slightly more than jack shit. A caster who continues to receive work and money but doesn't know anything!? It's a con tra dict ion!
On July 16 2012 00:51 Probe1 wrote: I'm fairly sure they know slightly more than jack shit. A caster who continues to receive work and money but doesn't know anything!? It's a con tra dict ion!
Although I disagree with the poster above you, I have to disagree here. Getting money to do something doesn't necessarily mean you're good at it (not implying that BitterDam are ná here at all).
On July 16 2012 00:51 Probe1 wrote: I'm fairly sure they know slightly more than jack shit. A caster who continues to receive work and money but doesn't know anything!? It's a con tra dict ion!
Although I disagree with the poster above you, I have to disagree here. Getting money to do something doesn't necessarily mean you're good at it (not implying that BitterDam are ná here at all).
Right. Getting money to do something just means you are marketable. Like all these shit young pop artists that can't hold a tune or sing that well, yet get so much funding because they are marketable in the game of popularity.
On July 16 2012 05:38 Psychonian wrote: I think anyone giving scarlett trouble about being transgender will have ended after this kind of run in both IPL4 and now NASLS3.
I am guessing you mean her run in WCS Canada? Her run in NASL is non existant.
I feel really weird about that final ceremony. First of all, they left poor Alicia in the booth alone while everyone else danced in champagne. The guy is in a foreign country and he doesn't speak English well. I hope he had somebody with him to explain what was going on, and where he should go and what he should be doing. He is surely used to both the winner and runner up going on stage and receiving their giant checks and what not. At the very least, I hope both players were briefed on what the winner's ceremony would be like so that he wasn't left clueless in his booth watching everyone else dance. I also feel like they may have overdid it a bit with that ceremony. Alicia didn't seem too crushed, but a lot of players would have felt really terrible after losing like that. Imagine if that was MarineKing in there. He would be bawling just from the loss, but when he looks out and sees Stephano dancing in champagne, I can't imagine how that would make him feel.
It's a cool idea, and I appreciate that NASL is trying to be unique with their winner's ceremony, but I feel like they overdid it a bit and it's not really cool for the losing player.
i think stephano really shows that he is a player full of talent. Its incredible how he keeps on winning tournaments and how no other foreigner is able to keep up with him in consitency. He is truly the best foreigner right now, with only naniwa able to dispute him.
And i really dont think that you have to comment on the fact that scarlett is a transgender. In the todays modern world it shouldn´t be an issue and i think in a forum like this it should only be the way SHE plays that matters. Im even sad that im writing something about her gender because its just not what counts.
On July 16 2012 10:37 MichaelDonovan wrote: I feel really weird about that final ceremony. First of all, they left poor Alicia in the booth alone while everyone else danced in champagne. The guy is in a foreign country and he doesn't speak English well. I hope he had somebody with him to explain what was going on, and where he should go and what he should be doing. He is surely used to both the winner and runner up going on stage and receiving their giant checks and what not. At the very least, I hope both players were briefed on what the winner's ceremony would be like so that he wasn't left clueless in his booth watching everyone else dance. I also feel like they may have overdid it a bit with that ceremony. Alicia didn't seem too crushed, but a lot of players would have felt really terrible after losing like that. Imagine if that was MarineKing in there. He would be bawling just from the loss, but when he looks out and sees Stephano dancing in champagne, I can't imagine how that would make him feel.
It's a cool idea, and I appreciate that NASL is trying to be unique with their winner's ceremony, but I feel like they overdid it a bit and it's not really cool for the losing player.
You really have too much time on your hands to make such an analysis of futile things....congratz stephano, well deserved:D
On July 16 2012 10:37 MichaelDonovan wrote: I feel really weird about that final ceremony. First of all, they left poor Alicia in the booth alone while everyone else danced in champagne. The guy is in a foreign country and he doesn't speak English well. I hope he had somebody with him to explain what was going on, and where he should go and what he should be doing. He is surely used to both the winner and runner up going on stage and receiving their giant checks and what not. At the very least, I hope both players were briefed on what the winner's ceremony would be like so that he wasn't left clueless in his booth watching everyone else dance. I also feel like they may have overdid it a bit with that ceremony. Alicia didn't seem too crushed, but a lot of players would have felt really terrible after losing like that. Imagine if that was MarineKing in there. He would be bawling just from the loss, but when he looks out and sees Stephano dancing in champagne, I can't imagine how that would make him feel.
It's a cool idea, and I appreciate that NASL is trying to be unique with their winner's ceremony, but I feel like they overdid it a bit and it's not really cool for the losing player.
You really have too much time on your hands to make such an analysis of futile things....congratz stephano, well deserved:D
Yeah I guess all the people trying to feed the starving children around the world have too much time on their hands too. And if you stop and give a homeless person a sandwich, you must have too much time on your hands. And if you see a child crying on a street corner and you help her find her mother, you must have too much time on your hands. Whatever, man. Yes, congratulations to stephano. Well deserved win.
Also, it's not an analysis. It's a gut reaction to an observation. Thus, it didn't take much "time" anyway.
On July 16 2012 10:37 MichaelDonovan wrote: I feel really weird about that final ceremony. First of all, they left poor Alicia in the booth alone while everyone else danced in champagne. The guy is in a foreign country and he doesn't speak English well. I hope he had somebody with him to explain what was going on, and where he should go and what he should be doing. He is surely used to both the winner and runner up going on stage and receiving their giant checks and what not. At the very least, I hope both players were briefed on what the winner's ceremony would be like so that he wasn't left clueless in his booth watching everyone else dance. I also feel like they may have overdid it a bit with that ceremony. Alicia didn't seem too crushed, but a lot of players would have felt really terrible after losing like that. Imagine if that was MarineKing in there. He would be bawling just from the loss, but when he looks out and sees Stephano dancing in champagne, I can't imagine how that would make him feel.
It's a cool idea, and I appreciate that NASL is trying to be unique with their winner's ceremony, but I feel like they overdid it a bit and it's not really cool for the losing player.
You really have too much time on your hands to make such an analysis of futile things....congratz stephano, well deserved:D
Yeah I guess all the people trying to feed the starving children around the world have too much time on their hands too. And if you stop and give a homeless person a sandwich, you must have too much time on your hands. And if you see a child crying on a street corner and you help her find her mother, you must have too much time on your hands. Whatever, man. Yes, congratulations to stephano. Well deserved win.
Also, it's not an analysis. It's a gut reaction to an observation. Thus, it didn't take much "time" anyway.
Comparing starving children and homeless people to a man who had the disappointment of being runner-up and not being the focus of the celebration... -.-
Stephano is a joy to watch. He embodies the true spirit of Zerg.
He looks like a mindless drone, never reacting to anything with his body. His hands and eyes are the only thing that moves when he plays, and they move with perfect surgeon precision.
Watching him play is like watching water flow in the river. There may be rocks in the way, but the stream of creep and Zerg units keeps its fast pace and eventually and undoubtedly crushes even the mightiest of mountains in its path. He is a true real life Overmind.
May the Pink Brood never falter in its conquest over the other races.
May the Overmind Stephano assimilate all other genomes into the Zerg biodiversity and cover the galaxy in that pure and cleansing creep.
On July 16 2012 10:45 xeo1 wrote: what was the song when stephano won and he got sprayed by champagne?? it was like tututu tu tutu... i wanna find it ~~
On July 16 2012 10:37 MichaelDonovan wrote: I feel really weird about that final ceremony. First of all, they left poor Alicia in the booth alone while everyone else danced in champagne. The guy is in a foreign country and he doesn't speak English well. I hope he had somebody with him to explain what was going on, and where he should go and what he should be doing. He is surely used to both the winner and runner up going on stage and receiving their giant checks and what not. At the very least, I hope both players were briefed on what the winner's ceremony would be like so that he wasn't left clueless in his booth watching everyone else dance. I also feel like they may have overdid it a bit with that ceremony. Alicia didn't seem too crushed, but a lot of players would have felt really terrible after losing like that. Imagine if that was MarineKing in there. He would be bawling just from the loss, but when he looks out and sees Stephano dancing in champagne, I can't imagine how that would make him feel.
It's a cool idea, and I appreciate that NASL is trying to be unique with their winner's ceremony, but I feel like they overdid it a bit and it's not really cool for the losing player.
You really have too much time on your hands to make such an analysis of futile things....congratz stephano, well deserved:D
Yeah I guess all the people trying to feed the starving children around the world have too much time on their hands too. And if you stop and give a homeless person a sandwich, you must have too much time on your hands. And if you see a child crying on a street corner and you help her find her mother, you must have too much time on your hands. Whatever, man. Yes, congratulations to stephano. Well deserved win.
Also, it's not an analysis. It's a gut reaction to an observation. Thus, it didn't take much "time" anyway.
Comparing starving children and homeless people to a man who had the disappointment of being runner-up and not being the focus of the celebration... -.-
No. I'm comparing people trying to raise awareness of problems to me pointing out an unfortunate situation. The content of the problems in question is not relevant. And I'm mostly just expressing my disapproval of the "too much time on your hands" phrase that is thrown around so often.
On July 16 2012 10:37 MichaelDonovan wrote: I feel really weird about that final ceremony. First of all, they left poor Alicia in the booth alone while everyone else danced in champagne. The guy is in a foreign country and he doesn't speak English well. I hope he had somebody with him to explain what was going on, and where he should go and what he should be doing. He is surely used to both the winner and runner up going on stage and receiving their giant checks and what not. At the very least, I hope both players were briefed on what the winner's ceremony would be like so that he wasn't left clueless in his booth watching everyone else dance. I also feel like they may have overdid it a bit with that ceremony. Alicia didn't seem too crushed, but a lot of players would have felt really terrible after losing like that. Imagine if that was MarineKing in there. He would be bawling just from the loss, but when he looks out and sees Stephano dancing in champagne, I can't imagine how that would make him feel.
It's a cool idea, and I appreciate that NASL is trying to be unique with their winner's ceremony, but I feel like they overdid it a bit and it's not really cool for the losing player.
Come on man... can't cater to everybody's emotions. It pays to be a winner
I got a video on stage during the "dance party" of Stephano dancing away (and kicking the NASL hostess, Lauren, in the head after being flipped upside by someone)
On July 16 2012 12:00 Jacmert wrote: I got a video on stage during the "dance party" of Stephano dancing away (and kicking the NASL hostess, Lauren, in the head after being flipped upside by someone)
I'm confused why anybody would dislike Stephano! I can seem him MAYBE being a bit cocky, but he seems like a truly great guy and I couldn't be more happy he won it! You also can't deny his rockstar quality. FRICKIN' Jaedong says he plays zerg the way he aspires to play it!
On July 16 2012 14:01 FuGGu wrote: I'm confused why anybody would dislike Stephano! I can seem him MAYBE being a bit cocky, but he seems like a truly great guy and I couldn't be more happy he won it! You also can't deny his rockstar quality. FRICKIN' Jaedong says he plays zerg the way he aspires to play it!
noone denies that he is good, you dont have to be a fanboy of a good player just because hes good, hes said some things in interviews that came off as cocky yes and personally hes meh for me. Hes good not amazing Just the best foreigner. personally i feel jaedong was just putting out stephano's name for some good foreigner karma- jaedong easily is going to be better than him shortly anyways.
On July 16 2012 10:45 xeo1 wrote: what was the song when stephano won and he got sprayed by champagne?? it was like tututu tu tutu... i wanna find it ~~
Stephano is clearly the greatest French military genius since Napoleon. Although he is more like Joan of Arc in terms of accomplishments and physical appearance (lol).
I mean that I can't help but admire this man's abilities.
The clue with Stephano is that he CAN be cocky! if he was cocky without results and if he lost the matches he was cocky in then sure, but he wins every time he does so it just makes his persona much more awesome ☺
Stephano! GSL HWAITING. Make us proud you french beast :D
On July 16 2012 15:22 ReboundEU wrote: He just rolled everyone. Best nonkorean by far. Whoever thinks otherwise has no clue about this game.
results speak for themselves, naniwa has two consecutive quaterfinals in worlds HARDEST competition, _by far_.
rollin' thru easy groups and facing koreans at later stages is not the same as when you have 2x3 killer koreans in your group, which are easily as hard as any korean in NASL/random foreign tourney, who you have to outplay to advance in the next round
also, playing GSL format is harder than knockout format that competitions like NASL employ because more preparation is needed...
On July 16 2012 15:22 ReboundEU wrote: He just rolled everyone. Best nonkorean by far. Whoever thinks otherwise has no clue about this game.
results speak for themselves, naniwa has two consecutive quaterfinals in worlds HARDEST competition, _by far_.
rollin' thru easy groups and facing koreans at later stages is not the same as when you have 2x3 killer koreans in your group, which are easily as hard as any korean in NASL/random foreign tourney, who you have to outplay to advance in the next round
also, playing GSL format is harder than knockout format that competitions like NASL employ because more preparation is needed...
but we can agree to disagree, best regards
Why does naniwa fail to deliver foreign results when its so easy?? Since the ro8 in gsl he has been to 2mlgs both(7-8th) Stockholm(ro32), summer(Ro8). You cant just say Tournament with names as MC,Hero,Puma,Puzzle,Sen,Ret is no competition.. Id admit its easier but Stephano made up for it by DEMOLISHING everyone easily 4-0 finals on a such a big event.
On July 16 2012 15:22 ReboundEU wrote: He just rolled everyone. Best nonkorean by far. Whoever thinks otherwise has no clue about this game.
results speak for themselves, naniwa has two consecutive quaterfinals in worlds HARDEST competition, _by far_.
rollin' thru easy groups and facing koreans at later stages is not the same as when you have 2x3 killer koreans in your group, which are easily as hard as any korean in NASL/random foreign tourney, who you have to outplay to advance in the next round
also, playing GSL format is harder than knockout format that competitions like NASL employ because more preparation is needed...
but we can agree to disagree, best regards
This year so far beating MC, Ryung, Parting, Squirtle, Hero, Violet, Polt as well as a plethora of players with less results lately like Puma not to mention he his leagues above the other foreigners. Also gaveMKP a run for his money last time they met. Got destroyed by MMA though. Overall he seems much more consistent than Naniwa, but it is true we don't see much of Naniwa anymore.
What's impressed me so far is his progression, during his rise at first he lost all the time to Polt, than began taking games of him more and more, and now beats him most of the time. The same exact thing is happening against MC now, and lately MC has regained a lot of his past skill. The more he plays against good opponents the more he becomes impressive, so regardless of who is the best foreigner I'm eager to how he fares during his stay in Korea, never before did we have a foreigner beat so many top Koreans over and over.
surprisingly stephano crushed alicia that hard. alicia is one of the best slayers players at the moment really in a peak of succes. to be beating a top tier korean like that is very promising. hopefuly when he would go to korea people won't figure him out because he has a style that he always plays the same so.. who knows!
On July 16 2012 21:01 Svennedude wrote: surprisingly stephano crushed alicia that hard. alicia is one of the best slayers players at the moment really in a peak of succes. to be beating a top tier korean like that is very promising. hopefuly when he would go to korea people won't figure him out because he has a style that he always plays the same so.. who knows!
If you think about it, his style couldbe figured out month ago, but still have not.
Not to mention there are enought videos to so so if one would desire to.
Until he proves himself in the GSL, Stephano is just the 2nd best foreigner for me. Naniwa almost defeated DRG in the world's hardest tournament, i think it's okay to say he is better than Steph.
On July 16 2012 22:06 Flwz wrote: Ilyes "Stephano" Satouri $159,595 Johan "Naniwa" Lucchesi $66,470
If Naniwas is indeed better then playing GSL is really not a good idea... especially since Stephano emerged a lot later.
They both have very different goals. Stephano is aiming to make a large amount of money, while Naniwa is trying to win the hardest tournament in the world.
If that sounds a bit like a slight on Stephano I don't mean it to be, he is an amazing player and need outstanding talent to pull it off, and it is what most players are are hoping to do. Naniwa is different though he cares next to nothing about things besides winning which can be a problem. Which is better? We don't know right now but comparing amount isn't the way to do it and Naniwa knows playing in the GSL is a bad idea if he wants the most money possible but he is doing it so he can say he has beat the best players in the most prestigious tournament in the world.
You guys do realise that MC would have been preparing for Gsl code S RO4 in a few days against DRG? Sure it's great that he has beat mc and squirtle outside of Gsl, and it's great that he has won a whole heap of cash along the way, but If he really wants to prove that he is one of the best, he better get on that plane to Korea and get to a minimum of RO8.
Don't Get me wrong, during the blizzard cup last year I was cheering for Stephano when he got knocked out of the first round, but it's getting to the point now where he has enough cash from Winning all these EZ mode foreign tournaments, now he needs to prove himself among the best of the best, in GSL format, which just happens to be a very different playing field to most foreign tournament formats.
I mean, look at naniwa, he lost a whole heap of respect from fans for his past actions, especially his probe rush during the infamous blizz cup game against nestea, but now he has redeemed himself with 2 consecutive ro8 on code s. Now look at the enormous amount of respect he has due to these achievements.... And he didn't even need to win the whole thing.
For all those that think Stephano needs to go to GSL instead of winning EZ mode tournaments, I am not sure you really get why he took off a year from school. He is more interested in making money than in being the best. Sure they do go somewhat hand in hand, but I don't think being the best, and only by definition of winning the GSL, is really something that matters to him. Being the best by definition of winning the most money is the bigger motivation. This in no way is a negative view of Stephano, in fact to me it shows that his decision making in real life is as good as his in game decision making.
On July 16 2012 22:49 StreetWise wrote: For all those that Stephano needs to go to GSL instead of winning EZ mode tournaments, I am not sure you really get why he took off a year from school. He is more interested in making money than in being the best. Sure they do go somewhat hand in hand, but I don't think being the best, and only by definition of winning the GSL, is really something that matters to him. Being the best by definition of winning the most money is the bigger motivation. This in no way is a negative view of Stephano, in fact to me it shows that his decision making in real life is as good as his in game decision making.
On July 16 2012 22:42 Incomplet wrote: You guys do realise that MC would have been preparing for Gsl code S RO4 in a few days against DRG? Sure it's great that he has beat mc and squirtle outside of Gsl, and it's great that he has won a whole heap of cash along the way, but If he really wants to prove that he is one of the best, he better get on that plane to Korea and get to a minimum of RO8.
I mean, look at naniwa, he lost a whole heap of respect from fans for his past actions, especially his probe rush during the infamous blizz cup game against nestea, but now he has redeemed himself with 2 consecutive ro8 on code s. Now look at the enormous amount of respect he has due to these achievements.... And he didn't even need to win the whole thing.
That's your opinion, not everyone's. Some praise GSL above everything, some (like me) consider it a tournament like the others. Harder to win than NASL3 or IPL3 ? Well, NASL and IPL qualifiers had the best korean and non korean attending, some didn't qualify for the pools play, some got kicked out in the pools play, some got stomped in the finals, and the winner is Stephano.
And what does Ro8 GSL prove ? That Naniwa is a great player and one of the best foreigners ? Nothing new here. And by your reasonning Jinro has done much better than Stephano in his carrier (... ?) Ro8 is not a win, and almost winning is losing (to DRG, who got beaten by Hero, who got beaten at NASL - while having time to prepare btw - by...well you get it).
Don't get me wrong, I have the biggest respect for Naniwa's play, he is imho along with Stephano the only foreigner with a very high and consistent level of performance, but to say who has accomplished more is a matter of point of view. I personally think Stephano has accomplished a lot more as he is more influent in the metagame and has won / placed well in a lot more events.
Oh, and GG Stephano, some amazing moments at the ceremony A bit sad Alicia didn't get any recognition though
On July 16 2012 22:49 StreetWise wrote: For all those that think Stephano needs to go to GSL instead of winning EZ mode tournaments, I am not sure you really get why he took off a year from school. He is more interested in making money than in being the best. Sure they do go somewhat hand in hand, but I don't think being the best, and only by definition of winning the GSL, is really something that matters to him. Being the best by definition of winning the most money is the bigger motivation. This in no way is a negative view of Stephano, in fact to me it shows that his decision making in real life is as good as his in game decision making.
I think you're forgetting that winning Gsl awards $87,000 usd. Even runner up will award almost te same amount as actually winning nasl yesterday.
Playing in GSL: Sit allday in a crowded appartment and travel to the GSL-Studio every once in a while to fail/or not. Playing other Tournaments: Traveling the world, meeting tons of people, seeing your fans...
Chosing the GSL over the other option seems really, really strange (and stupid) to me. No matter the money or whatever, the GSL just seems like a bad deal. Going there for 1 Season and kinda "bootcamping" in a Prohouse? Sure why not... Staying there just because some guys think "only GSL matters!!!"... No, sorry, that just does seem neither smart, exciting or fun...
Since when does Gsl mean you're restricted to staying in s.korea? Look at mc, if he can travel around and perform in various tournaments, and make it to Gsl RO4, why can't others?
And of course for the foreigners, playing in Korea would also be part of "travelling around"
Sorry if this is a bit off topic, I don't really know where to ask or look for my answer. Before NASL season 1, I recall Geoff talking about NASL having a $400k prize pool over 3 seasons, and something about a 100/100/200 distribution.
I just checked, and only $100k was distributed in NASL3 (and unfortunately for the winners, the money went all over the place).
Anyway, where's the last 100k? Gone for production/salaries, vanished or is it going toward a 4th season? Just curious. Cheers.
I'm sorry if this has been answered already, but is there a way to see the matches? I'm from EU so I couldn't watch and I really want to see the finals
On July 16 2012 22:42 Incomplet wrote: You guys do realise that MC would have been preparing for Gsl code S RO4 in a few days against DRG? Sure it's great that he has beat mc and squirtle outside of Gsl, and it's great that he has won a whole heap of cash along the way, but If he really wants to prove that he is one of the best, he better get on that plane to Korea and get to a minimum of RO8.
I mean, look at naniwa, he lost a whole heap of respect from fans for his past actions, especially his probe rush during the infamous blizz cup game against nestea, but now he has redeemed himself with 2 consecutive ro8 on code s. Now look at the enormous amount of respect he has due to these achievements.... And he didn't even need to win the whole thing.
That's your opinion, not everyone's. Some praise GSL above everything, some (like me) consider it a tournament like the others. Harder to win than NASL3 or IPL3 ? Well, NASL and IPL qualifiers had the best korean and non korean attending, some didn't qualify for the pools play, some got kicked out in the pools play, some got stomped in the finals, and the winner is Stephano.
And what does Ro8 GSL prove ? That Naniwa is a great player and one of the best foreigners ? Nothing new here. And by your reasonning Jinro has done much better than Stephano in his carrier (... ?) Ro8 is not a win, and almost winning is losing (to DRG, who got beaten by Hero, who got beaten at NASL - while having time to prepare btw - by...well you get it).
Don't get me wrong, I have the biggest respect for Naniwa's play, he is imho along with Stephano the only foreigner with a very high and consistent level of performance, but to say who has accomplished more is a matter of point of view. I personally think Stephano has accomplished a lot more as he is more influent in the metagame and has won / placed well in a lot more events.
Oh, and GG Stephano, some amazing moments at the ceremony A bit sad Alicia didn't get any recognition though
I agree with pretty much everything you said.
Naniwa is great, but Stephano is clearly more influential and accomplished.
You don't see the Koreans talking about how they fear Naniwa or emulate his play... Stephano on the other hand is almost universally admired by the Koreans and he has had a huge part in changing how Zerg is played.
i dont know where all the gsl talk started but im sorry if anyone thinks that its just another tournament. Sure the Nasl is awesome and has some great competitors but its not the same depth of talent that the gsl has mainly because the gsl is in korea the mecca of e-sports, anyone who disagrees is not fully informed or is delusional and there is no need to prove my points with facts because it has already been proven, this is one of the few non korea based tournaments where the koreans have not totally dominated. If you follow sc2 then you know i am right.
that being said staphano is great and i would love to see him compete at the top level in the gsl, however i dont think he needs to do this to prove anything, he has already accomplished so much and deserves all the praise he gets.
On July 17 2012 00:03 Velr wrote: Playing in GSL: Sit allday in a crowded appartment and travel to the GSL-Studio every once in a while to fail/or not. Playing other Tournaments: Traveling the world, meeting tons of people, seeing your fans...
Chosing the GSL over the other option seems really, really strange (and stupid) to me. No matter the money or whatever, the GSL just seems like a bad deal. Going there for 1 Season and kinda "bootcamping" in a Prohouse? Sure why not... Staying there just because some guys think "only GSL matters!!!"... No, sorry, that just does seem neither smart, exciting or fun...
For Koreans, international tournaments mean dealing with jetlag unless you have time in your schedule to go early. And domestic fame is a much bigger deal for them.
Same reasoning why Swedish players e.g. Naniwa have in the past preferred Dreamhack over other clashing tournaments like MLG.
On July 16 2012 22:42 Incomplet wrote: You guys do realise that MC would have been preparing for Gsl code S RO4 in a few days against DRG? Sure it's great that he has beat mc and squirtle outside of Gsl, and it's great that he has won a whole heap of cash along the way, but If he really wants to prove that he is one of the best, he better get on that plane to Korea and get to a minimum of RO8.
I mean, look at naniwa, he lost a whole heap of respect from fans for his past actions, especially his probe rush during the infamous blizz cup game against nestea, but now he has redeemed himself with 2 consecutive ro8 on code s. Now look at the enormous amount of respect he has due to these achievements.... And he didn't even need to win the whole thing.
That's your opinion, not everyone's. Some praise GSL above everything, some (like me) consider it a tournament like the others. Harder to win than NASL3 or IPL3 ? Well, NASL and IPL qualifiers had the best korean and non korean attending, some didn't qualify for the pools play, some got kicked out in the pools play, some got stomped in the finals, and the winner is Stephano.
The point is not "the best are there", but rather the kind of risks and exposure you must endure to actually reach a certain point. The density of dangeoursly good players is simply higher in Korean tournaments; it is not an accident that qualifiers often feature as many upsets as expected results. Going through MC is hard, but going through MC and a half-dozen decent koreans would be much harder. SC2, at least right now, is a very volatile and punishing game. Furthermore, the schedule allows you to build up another layer of skill in opponent-specific training and match preparation (albeit one could say that this is actually a way for "worse" players to win out of trickery or metagame/map abuse). This is not diminish Stephano's achievement or skill level (I am actually a fan myself, albeit I do have a hard time standing the hype/fanboyism/etc.), but to suggest that there are legitimate reasons for which the GSL is still considered a mecca tournament rather than one among many. Of course, this does not mean that running in it makes sense from a career standpoint.
On July 16 2012 22:42 Incomplet wrote: You guys do realise that MC would have been preparing for Gsl code S RO4 in a few days against DRG? Sure it's great that he has beat mc and squirtle outside of Gsl, and it's great that he has won a whole heap of cash along the way, but If he really wants to prove that he is one of the best, he better get on that plane to Korea and get to a minimum of RO8.
I mean, look at naniwa, he lost a whole heap of respect from fans for his past actions, especially his probe rush during the infamous blizz cup game against nestea, but now he has redeemed himself with 2 consecutive ro8 on code s. Now look at the enormous amount of respect he has due to these achievements.... And he didn't even need to win the whole thing.
That's your opinion, not everyone's. Some praise GSL above everything, some (like me) consider it a tournament like the others. Harder to win than NASL3 or IPL3 ? Well, NASL and IPL qualifiers had the best korean and non korean attending, some didn't qualify for the pools play, some got kicked out in the pools play, some got stomped in the finals, and the winner is Stephano.
The point is not "the best are there", but rather the kind of risks and exposure you must endure to actually reach a certain point. The density of dangeoursly good players is simply higher in Korean tournaments; it is not an accident that qualifiers often feature as many upsets as expected results. Going through MC is hard, but going through MC and a half-dozen decent koreans would be much harder. SC2, at least right now, is a very volatile and punishing game. Furthermore, the schedule allows you to build up another layer of skill in opponent-specific training and match preparation (albeit one could say that this is actually a way for "worse" players to win out of trickery or metagame/map abuse). This is not diminish Stephano's achievement or skill level (I am actually a fan myself, albeit I do have a hard time standing the hype/fanboyism/etc.), but to suggest that there are legitimate reasons for which the GSL is still considered a mecca tournament rather than one among many. Of course, this does not mean that running in it makes sense from a career standpoint.
I agree. I see the GSL as the 'champions league' of e-sports, especially given how much preparation and time dedication will help you towards winning. We still see the highest level games there, in my opionion.
GSL format allows every player to show the best play he can possibly achieve. Sometimes it leads to inferior player winning the games against a superior one by simply analyzing his playstyle and responding accordingly, but this just leads to players creating more versatile build orders that can allow them to counter more stuff, creating "meta builds". DRG, Stephano, MarineKing play insanely good in tournaments like these because their mechanics are simply better. I don't want to lessen the ability of Stephano, but it is to be seen if he is suited for GSL, because of the format it causes a lot of players who play way better than Stephano fall off. You should consider GSL as a huge poker tournament: your cards may get seen, your face may show something off or your opponent might just be a better player. There is a million things where you can be outplayed even before the game started and even in game a single mistake against a code-S player might cause you to lose. Playing GSL and NASL is like playing two different games all together. If you do like GSL, you might as well say that NASL-type leagues level do not matter and if you like GSL, then whatever other leagues do not matter(well, OSL does matter).
EPT
Mill.Stephano (4 - 0) 
SlayerS_Alicia
EG.PuMa![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Waxangel/NASL/s3mcpuma.jpg)
That's my boy...
