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On January 02 2012 01:55 sVnteen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 01:37 Catatonic wrote:On January 01 2012 15:24 [Erasmus] wrote:
Seriously, why is Mouz not team of the year... I get that EG/Liquid probably have a few more individual results on their roster, but Mouz are the scariest foreign team. Looks incredibly biased with only 2 nominations to begin with. Im sorry, how exactly are they scarier then either TL or EG? EG with 2 Code 2 participants, 2 Code A, and 1 Code B(?), plus a handful of rather under preforming (though still very good) players. An TL with HerO (That alone makes them Scarier then Mouz) as well as Ret (best player in Europe arguably up there in top 3) as well as Sheth an now Zenio. Mouz really only has Morrow and Thorzain, outside of those two maybe Hasuobs but not much else vs these Goliaths of the foreigner scene. I respect Mouz but to claim them team of the year and the scariest team around is false. They're extreamly good but not that good. look at liquipedia they have the most top 4 finishes of any team eventhough they have the smallest roster and they did best in team events mouz also has mana and wait- he is top 5 internation tlpd while there is no liquid or EG player there? and why is hero not in top 5 korea hmmmmmmm- nor is zenio nor puma OMG ret can not possibly be considered top 3 europe (at least not on from a standpoint of someone who knows the scene my of the guys above ret would be (not in order so pls no rage) naniwa sase thorzain stephano nerchio beastyqt kas mana demuslim ToD (morrow?) (and since he is so passive in the scene i am not completely sure about his current level but so i would put him around the level of demuslim/tod but im certain that tod will be a beast when he comes back from korea)
sVteen think about what you're saying please. TLPD values $100 tournaments as much as an MLG win and is not a good metric to use for a discussion as deep as this one. HuK who has won 3 majors in 2011 by himself does not make it into the TLPD top 5.
Ret won Assembly, won Blizzard EU, got top 8 IPL and top 4 Dreamhack. It doesn't necessarily prove he is top 3 Europe, but I can't think of many besides Naniwa and Stephano who can objectively boost better results in 2011. Thorzain, Ret and Mana all have really good results in 2011, but the majority of your list do not, and seem to be based more on your opinion than results.
I don't think sports evolve around top 4 finishes as a bragging point. The most important thing is winning major tournaments. It's definitely an added accomplishment but it's not like 4 times top 4 is worth as much as a 1st place finish, or anything like that. I'd rather win one than get top 4 20 times.
Also, to clarify this is not a discussion of whether or not one team has a stronger lineup than the other; It's about who had a better 2011. A team can win every single tournament out there and lose it's full squad in December and still have the best team performance that year. I won't deny that Mouz is incredibly skilled, but they have not been able to transition that skill into major tournament wins.
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On January 02 2012 01:55 sVnteen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 01:37 Catatonic wrote:On January 01 2012 15:24 [Erasmus] wrote:
Seriously, why is Mouz not team of the year... I get that EG/Liquid probably have a few more individual results on their roster, but Mouz are the scariest foreign team. Looks incredibly biased with only 2 nominations to begin with. Im sorry, how exactly are they scarier then either TL or EG? EG with 2 Code 2 participants, 2 Code A, and 1 Code B(?), plus a handful of rather under preforming (though still very good) players. An TL with HerO (That alone makes them Scarier then Mouz) as well as Ret (best player in Europe arguably up there in top 3) as well as Sheth an now Zenio. Mouz really only has Morrow and Thorzain, outside of those two maybe Hasuobs but not much else vs these Goliaths of the foreigner scene. I respect Mouz but to claim them team of the year and the scariest team around is false. They're extreamly good but not that good. look at liquipedia they have the most top 4 finishes of any team eventhough they have the smallest roster and they did best in team events mouz also has mana and wait- he is top 5 internation tlpd while there is no liquid or EG player there? and why is hero not in top 5 korea hmmmmmmm- nor is zenio nor puma OMG ret can not possibly be considered top 3 europe (at least not on from a standpoint of someone who knows the scene my of the guys above ret would be (not in order so pls no rage) naniwa sase thorzain stephano nerchio beastyqt kas mana demuslim ToD (morrow?) (and since he is so passive in the scene i am not completely sure about his current level but so i would put him around the level of demuslim/tod but im certain that tod will be a beast when he comes back from korea)
To say mouz has a scarier lineup than EG is quite frankly ludicrous. IdrA, HuK, PuMa is all I have to say, does mouz have one player that could beat any one of these guys in a Bo7? How many championships does mouz have?
Look, I think they're a great team but do not even try to compare them with EG. I still think people overlook them but there is no statistic you can show me that will prove that mouz had a better year than EG. Cheers!
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On January 01 2012 18:10 IdrA wrote:he cant have you
hahahah :D
@topic : i agree with all aspects  well done!
EG > ratsports
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Mouz has not had the individual tournament wins to make this award, but they are easily the best foreign team in team leagues.
As for TL v EG, It's honestly a joke that you rate Zenio/Ret/HerO (Maybe Sheth) as equal to IdrA/Huk/Puma/JYP (Maybe Demuslim).
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1. <3 Huk
2. <3 TL
3. <3 Waxangel and everyone who contributed to this article
4. gogo 2012 fightinggggg
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On January 02 2012 02:13 KMARTRULES2 wrote:
Mouz has not had the individual tournament wins to make this award, but they are easily the best foreign team in team leagues.
As for TL v EG, It's honestly a joke that you rate Zenio/Ret/HerO (Maybe Sheth) as equal to IdrA/Huk/Puma/JYP (Maybe Demuslim).
HuK won two major tournaments as Liquid in 2011 and it is not a question of lineup vs lineup, but instead an award based on the year as a whole. For example Jinro in 2011 has still achieved more than JYP has, even though JYP is in a much better spot today.
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Wow, there was no zerg strategies in the runnings =(
No surprise Huk and day9 won something. Surprised Kiwikaki got the creative award, I thought TLO would have.
So happy Colombus won the american tournament of the year. It really was the best one
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On January 02 2012 02:11 ZisforZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 01:55 sVnteen wrote:On January 02 2012 01:37 Catatonic wrote:On January 01 2012 15:24 [Erasmus] wrote:
Seriously, why is Mouz not team of the year... I get that EG/Liquid probably have a few more individual results on their roster, but Mouz are the scariest foreign team. Looks incredibly biased with only 2 nominations to begin with. Im sorry, how exactly are they scarier then either TL or EG? EG with 2 Code 2 participants, 2 Code A, and 1 Code B(?), plus a handful of rather under preforming (though still very good) players. An TL with HerO (That alone makes them Scarier then Mouz) as well as Ret (best player in Europe arguably up there in top 3) as well as Sheth an now Zenio. Mouz really only has Morrow and Thorzain, outside of those two maybe Hasuobs but not much else vs these Goliaths of the foreigner scene. I respect Mouz but to claim them team of the year and the scariest team around is false. They're extreamly good but not that good. look at liquipedia they have the most top 4 finishes of any team eventhough they have the smallest roster and they did best in team events mouz also has mana and wait- he is top 5 internation tlpd while there is no liquid or EG player there? and why is hero not in top 5 korea hmmmmmmm- nor is zenio nor puma OMG ret can not possibly be considered top 3 europe (at least not on from a standpoint of someone who knows the scene my of the guys above ret would be (not in order so pls no rage) naniwa sase thorzain stephano nerchio beastyqt kas mana demuslim ToD (morrow?) (and since he is so passive in the scene i am not completely sure about his current level but so i would put him around the level of demuslim/tod but im certain that tod will be a beast when he comes back from korea) To say mouz has a scarier lineup than EG is quite frankly ludicrous. IdrA, HuK, PuMa is all I have to say, does mouz have one player that could beat any one of these guys in a Bo7? How many championships does mouz have? Look, I think they're a great team but do not even try to compare them with EG. I still think people overlook them but there is no statistic you can show me that will prove that mouz had a better year than EG. Cheers!
HasuObs, Morrow, Thorzain, MaNa. I still think that EG's lineup for individual tournaments is stronger (More star players), But any of these guys on mouz could take a bo5 or 7 against EGs players. Hasu took Huk out 3-2 in NASL recently.
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On January 02 2012 02:14 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 02:13 KMARTRULES2 wrote:
Mouz has not had the individual tournament wins to make this award, but they are easily the best foreign team in team leagues.
As for TL v EG, It's honestly a joke that you rate Zenio/Ret/HerO (Maybe Sheth) as equal to IdrA/Huk/Puma/JYP (Maybe Demuslim).
HuK won two major tournaments as Liquid in 2011 and it is not a question of lineup vs lineup, but instead an award based on the year as a whole. For example Jinro in 2011 has still achieved more than JYP has, even though JYP is in a much better spot today.
Fair enough. TL did win a lot, especially with HuK. However in 2012 I think that EG will have that top spot.
We'll see though, anything could happen. (Haypro 3 time code S champion, cheering for you :D)
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On January 02 2012 00:59 Frankon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 00:33 Thorzain wrote:mouz doesn't have any korean mercenaries!!   biGs is such a white dude.... Ok. Jokes aside at least he isn't a pure korean (and by not being pure i mean that he got swiss nationality)
I think you should probably add that he got his swiss nationality at like the age of 4 and has been there ever since pretty much xD he's more swiss than anything 
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Even if I disagree, I think it was a pretty good wrap up for a damn good year
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surprised HerO was not at least nominated for most creative player...
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The only thing I don't like is the fact dual sight got onto the list of map of the year...PvZ is rubbish on that map...
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United States12607 Posts
This article is so awesome.
Wow.
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On January 02 2012 02:09 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
sVteen think about what you're saying please. TLPD values $100 tournaments as much as an MLG win and is not a good metric to use for a discussion as deep as this one. HuK who has won 3 majors in 2011 by himself does not make it into the TLPD top 5.
Correct me if im wrong but TLPD takes into account who they were playing against and not what tournament - so its a freaking good metric way to compare players. The price of the tournament doesn't matter. Its who you killed on your way to the top. And sadly for MLG the way to the top might be only 4 or so BO3...
PS. I noticed that TLPD isn't MLG friendly since most of the imported (read: exchange program) koreans don't participate in western cups so its hard to use their TLPD elo since there are differences between korean and western scene.
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On January 02 2012 02:11 ZisforZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 01:55 sVnteen wrote:On January 02 2012 01:37 Catatonic wrote:On January 01 2012 15:24 [Erasmus] wrote:
Seriously, why is Mouz not team of the year... I get that EG/Liquid probably have a few more individual results on their roster, but Mouz are the scariest foreign team. Looks incredibly biased with only 2 nominations to begin with. Im sorry, how exactly are they scarier then either TL or EG? EG with 2 Code 2 participants, 2 Code A, and 1 Code B(?), plus a handful of rather under preforming (though still very good) players. An TL with HerO (That alone makes them Scarier then Mouz) as well as Ret (best player in Europe arguably up there in top 3) as well as Sheth an now Zenio. Mouz really only has Morrow and Thorzain, outside of those two maybe Hasuobs but not much else vs these Goliaths of the foreigner scene. I respect Mouz but to claim them team of the year and the scariest team around is false. They're extreamly good but not that good. look at liquipedia they have the most top 4 finishes of any team eventhough they have the smallest roster and they did best in team events mouz also has mana and wait- he is top 5 internation tlpd while there is no liquid or EG player there? and why is hero not in top 5 korea hmmmmmmm- nor is zenio nor puma OMG ret can not possibly be considered top 3 europe (at least not on from a standpoint of someone who knows the scene my of the guys above ret would be (not in order so pls no rage) naniwa sase thorzain stephano nerchio beastyqt kas mana demuslim ToD (morrow?) (and since he is so passive in the scene i am not completely sure about his current level but so i would put him around the level of demuslim/tod but im certain that tod will be a beast when he comes back from korea) To say mouz has a scarier lineup than EG is quite frankly ludicrous. IdrA, HuK, PuMa is all I have to say, does mouz have one player that could beat any one of these guys in a Bo7? How many championships does mouz have? Look, I think they're a great team but do not even try to compare them with EG. I still think people overlook them but there is no statistic you can show me that will prove that mouz had a better year than EG. Cheers!
I wouldn't put it past Thorzain, Morrow or MaNa
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Czech Republic1860 Posts
Were TL writers aiming for first drama of 2012 award ? :D
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I would honestly name Mouz the best foreign team. Those guys are monstrous.
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Ah, Apocalypse, yes, this guy plays an astonishing amount of games, on his division there is only another guy that plays as much, this guy probably does play 50 or so games per day and he wins the majority of them, he's top 20 GM in Korea and he favors to do fast strategies on 1 base, I have a replay pack of him from older patches and I've messaged him about streaming but he said QIM is setting his stream up, he's a really good player and I hope he has great success because he is working hard for it.
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Great write-up as usual. Best of luck to both TL and EG. Can't wait for an even better 2012!
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EPT
