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[SC2B] A Shot In The Dark - Page 3

Forum Index > News
123 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Kamstrup
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark5 Posts
March 09 2010 17:04 GMT
#41
Are you posting thins like this on the Beta forums aswell ?
There is no failure, only feedback
Cpt.beefy
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Ireland799 Posts
March 09 2010 17:06 GMT
#42
good post man, amazing how this never came up in the 3 years of development.

Or maybe the changes are so new that it was never viable.

One things for sure blizzard need to step up and no let SC2 die in beta.
Our Beloved Geoff "inControl" Robinson.
andiCR
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Costa Rica2273 Posts
March 09 2010 17:36 GMT
#43
awesome post nazgul, thanks for taking the time to do this. I agree 100%
Nightmare1795 wrote: I played a guy in bronze who said he was Japanese. That was the only game I ever dropped a nuke, which was purely coincidental.
Chi
Profile Joined December 2009
Norway27 Posts
March 09 2010 17:43 GMT
#44
Great read, i really want this game to be around for as long as bw has and for that to happen it needs to fix some of these issues so we have enough viable strategies too choose from. Having defenders advantage and positional advantages (high ground for instance) to construct builds around is a crucial part. Having the aggressive build always be favored will only end in a shorter lifespan for the game. Hope blizzard will read this and take it to heart. Last but not least vengeance will be mine next time we meet in a ladder match
LuDwig-
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Italy1143 Posts
March 09 2010 17:49 GMT
#45
i really enjoy tjis post for 2 motives:
1)criticize with mind and not only say "omg this is so hot"
2)rep pack for our no beta users
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=120015&currentpage=98<--Search the HotBid's Post
Maceifer
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany11 Posts
March 09 2010 17:53 GMT
#46
On March 10 2010 01:35 Mystlord wrote:
The (non-existent) cliff mechanic is also troubling. It takes away an element of realism from the game.


Yes, a game where you battle aliens with mechs that are larger than the factory they come out of definately needs realism.

by MaDTeMpLaR: I say just put cliff rules like in was in bw. (i know its a different game, I can still point out it was better before)


Was it? I know I'm sounding like a broken record here but it was random. You could overcome the defender's advantage by sheer luck or lose a superior army to bad beats.

Let's face it, cliff miss chance will never come back because luck should not decide if your unit takes even one point of damage more or less.
Reduced range appears to be a good solution so does flat damage reduction.
If brute force does not solve your problem, you are not using enough...
Jugan
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1566 Posts
March 09 2010 17:56 GMT
#47
Great read, it's a little concerning that PvP is looking to be more "degenerate" than ZvZ in SC1. I wish I could get a beta key to try it out

Thanks for keeping us informed!
Even a Savior couldn't fix all problems. www.twitch.tv/xJugan
MapleLeafSirup
Profile Joined July 2009
Germany950 Posts
March 09 2010 18:00 GMT
#48
Great work Nazgul, but you better post that in a blizzard forum than on a tl.net forum (or both)
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
March 09 2010 18:14 GMT
#49
nice
bludragen88
Profile Joined August 2008
United States527 Posts
March 09 2010 18:15 GMT
#50
Everyone is focusing a lot on the high ground aspect, but what do people think of the 3 warpgate nerfs that Nazgul has suggested? I posted about the first idea in the "are we passing blizzard" thread, but there wasn't a lot of discussion afterwards so I was hoping to continue it here.

I personally think that the first option is the best, because like Nazgul says the third option (warp gates higher in tech tree) changes other matchups (which don't seem to be broken yet), and the second one is rather arbitrary - would 10 seconds always be your opponents main, even if you spawn at close or far positions on a 4 person map? What about with more players in the game (4 person FFA). How would you know the time lag before you started warping to the location, would the game tell you or would you see a status bar as it warps in?

Since those issues would remain with option two (warp lag depending on distance), I think using pylon's psi fields would work out much better. There are two distinct ways to implement this - you cannot warp a unit into an opponent's psi area, or you cannot use a pylon in an opponent's psi area to warp. The first means that one pylon cannot block one enemy pylon, so warpgate rush may still be viable, and the second is potentially too powerful because just a few pylons could keep a large area defended.
Ryhn
Profile Joined February 2010
United States509 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-09 18:54:31
March 09 2010 18:16 GMT
#51
Nevermind =p
Famous Books Written by Progamers - "Clam: Mastering your other self"
CursOr
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States6335 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-09 18:21:35
March 09 2010 18:20 GMT
#52
Thank you so much for talking about High Ground.
This is my #1 Issue...

Ramps? Cliffs? Whats the point if they are just more pathing and LOS blockers?
They talk about the game being "more dynamic" but this piece of shit "dynamic" just serves to make the maps more flat, vanilla, and just plain boring. More Zerglings blocking ramps vs Zealots IMO.

No more random, do a flat damage reduction up hills please.

AND.. lmfao about the 2 gate Warping in PvP. I'm playing just Terran now so I had no idea... though I did notice people were getting REALLY fast with warping Zealots into/close to my base... o.O
CJ forever (-_-(-_-(-_-(-_-)-_-)-_-)-_-)
ckjy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States12 Posts
March 09 2010 18:36 GMT
#53
On March 10 2010 03:16 Ryhn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 10 2010 00:34 micronesia wrote:
Can you explain how 50% miss means 4 hits to kill the marine?


Here you go. =3

M = Miss
H = Hit
X = Marine Already Dead


All possible outcomes of a tank trying to kill a marine in 4 shots (Omitting impossible results such as: HHHM):

HMMM - Marine lives
HHXX - Marine Dies on Second strike
HMHX - Marine Dies on Third strike
HMMH - Marine Dies on Fourth strike
MHHX - Marine Dies on Third strike
MMHH - Marine Dies on Fourth strike
MMMH - Marine lives
MMMM - Marine lives

Results:

3/8 times a marine will survive 4 shots.
2/8 times a marine will die on the 4th shot
2/8 times a marine will die on the 3rd shot
1/8 times a marine will die on the 2nd shot.


You asked how a marine could survive 4 shots on average?

Well, 5/8 of these results have the marine surviving to take at least 4 shots.

-Note-

If anyone notices a mistake in my analysis, please say so!


This ignores the actual probability of a hit and a miss. Suppose the probability of a hit is 90%. How does that change the calculation?
lipebra
Profile Joined August 2009
Brazil130 Posts
March 09 2010 18:39 GMT
#54
No more random!!!!

Put like a 10% redution, and that is it!!
Ryhn
Profile Joined February 2010
United States509 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-09 20:58:18
March 09 2010 18:39 GMT
#55
Nevermind. =p
Famous Books Written by Progamers - "Clam: Mastering your other self"
ckjy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States12 Posts
March 09 2010 18:47 GMT
#56
On March 10 2010 03:39 Ryhn wrote:
50% assumes that they're both equally likely, that's not an issue


According to his calculation, the probability of the tank missing four times in a row (MMMM) is the same as the tank killing the marine in two consecutive shots (HHXX).

The probability of a single hit or a miss may be the same, but four consecutive misses is not equivalent to two consecutive hits.
Ryhn
Profile Joined February 2010
United States509 Posts
March 09 2010 18:53 GMT
#57
Very good point my friend, the chance of consecutive hits/misses would diminish. I'll erase my post and work on it more when I have some spare time. Thanks for the feedback! =3
Famous Books Written by Progamers - "Clam: Mastering your other self"
After7days
Profile Joined December 2009
Denmark52 Posts
March 09 2010 19:00 GMT
#58
I get that miss seems to be more "fair" but it also adds more "luck" to the game, which i more or less dislike.
Personally, id prefer as it is
or
Damage reduction, that way you know that will happen and the random chance of miss wont effect a battle.
fx.
Tank shoots at a lets say marauder, tank misses the first 3 shots and losses the battle. Not common but its lucky for the defender.
With damage reduction, you know from experience, that a tank will win over 1 marauder and lose vs two. (example)
ikarigendo
Profile Joined December 2009
United States99 Posts
March 09 2010 19:11 GMT
#59
@Ryhn
To get the average number of shots required, you just multiply the number of hits needed by the probability of a hit (assuming no health regeneration). It is basic expected value theory:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expected_value

Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-09 19:35:05
March 09 2010 19:33 GMT
#60
Yeah, he's wrong.

There is a 25% chance for HH, killing the marine instantly.

There is a 50% chance of HM/MH, leaving the marine with 1 hit left.

25% chance of MM, leaving it with full HP

then repeat.

25% 2 shot
25% 3 shot
afaik... idk how to do the rest.

On March 10 2010 04:00 After7days wrote:
I get that miss seems to be more "fair" but it also adds more "luck" to the game, which i more or less dislike.
Personally, id prefer as it is
or
Damage reduction, that way you know that will happen and the random chance of miss wont effect a battle.
fx.
Tank shoots at a lets say marauder, tank misses the first 3 shots and losses the battle. Not common but its lucky for the defender.
With damage reduction, you know from experience, that a tank will win over 1 marauder and lose vs two. (example)


I would prefer that. It's more exciting seeing a player decide to either go in or back out, knowing that the outcome of the battle has a bit to do with luck as well as judging the situation. This is what makes the players with "balls" - playing against the odds and making it work.
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
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