• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:14
CEST 01:14
KST 08:14
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)9ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo23Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) SC2 Planner - The StarCraft II Build Planner [TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th HomeStory Cup In Early July
Tourneys
GSL CK #4 20-21th June Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
Fact based Zerg Upgrade Tier List BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ STARCRAFT MOVIE - Last Night at the Command center BW General Discussion Battle cruiser feet vs Carrier fleet
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSLAN 4 is Coming! Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Relatively freeroll strategies Creating a full chart of Zerg builds
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How To Predict Tilt in Espor…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11219 users

[MSL] Forget the Past

Forum Index > News
72 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 Next All

[MSL] Forget the Past

Text byAtrioc
November 26th, 2009 06:41 GMT
[image loading]

Banner by Atrioc


Forget Avalon.
Forget Lost Saga.
Hell, you should forget Club Day and Arena too.


With one of the biggest sponsors in a long time, a set of maps that drive a stake right in the heart of the "Swarm Season", and a stellar lineup where basically every S-Class player made it through the prelims, the Starcraft fan in all of us has to start feeling that unmistakable tingling in the deepest corner of the nerdiest part of the brain that says, in the barely audible whisper of something too good to be true, "This wont be just another MSL".

That this wont be another one-race circus, delivering boring beatdowns into lackluster finals.

This wont be playing second fiddle to the (often deservedly) heavier hype of the OSL matchups.

This season, you should think to yourself, is going to be something special - with a winner who doesn't follow in the tradition of fOrGG, Mind, or Luxury, but in the hallowed footsteps of the true MSL greats like NaDa, Oov, and sAviOr.

In short, when it comes to the Nate MSL:
You wont forget.

Now that's a bold claim, and laying the whole thing on gut instinct isn't a very solid foundation, so let's examine the latest MSL news to get a clearer picture of just why our coverage team is so excited for these games to begin.



Maps



[image loading]

From left to right: Match Point, Odd-Eye, Ultimatum, Fighting Spirit


This is one of the most exciting map pools for a tournament in a long time. Bringing in arguably the best two proleague maps at the moment, Match Point and Fighting Spirit, and replacing the crimes against humanity that were Carthage and Byzantium with the all-new MSL-exclusives, Odd-Eye and Ultimatum, the organizers behind the MSL have finally decided to take a serious stance against the balance issues that have been plaguing individual leagues as of late.

Are there problems? Yes, of course. In their mad rush to never have to say the words "Kwanro" and "Finals" in the same sentence ever again, the MSL organizers have done perhaps a little bit too much to weaken the Swarm. To put it simply: these maps, as far as can be seen, are not Zerg friendly. Most alarming are Match Point and Fighting Spirit, which have a combined 8-0 record in TvZ - bringing the ghost of Tiamat to mind, better known as one third of the deadly Arena trio that basically handed fOrGG an MSL gold.

Combine that with what seem to be Terran-friendly features on the new maps (though, as always, what a map seems to favor and what it actually does favor are often different) and we could have the opportunity for Humans to win their first starleague title in over a year (Not counting GOM S3, where Flash did snag the trophy) - or at the very least, start knocking out the weak Zergs en masse, creating some breathing room for Protoss players and increasingly the likelihood that we will see a varied mixture of races going forward.


[image loading]

Will the new maps help Flash take his first MSL?




Players



[image loading]

Diverse groups in the Ro32 means a better Ro16


Here are the current groups for the Ro32:
Group A - (Z)Calm, (P)BeSt, (T)Light, (T)fOrGG
Group B - (Z)Kwanro, (Z)HoGiL, (Z)Shine, (T)Hwasin
Group C - (T)Iris, (Z)Saint, (Z)hyvaa, (T)Flash
Group D - (Z)Jaedong, (Z)Crazy-Hydra, (P)Stats, (Z)July
Group E - (T)Canata, (Z)hero, (P)Movie, (P)Stork
Group F - (P)Bisu, (P)GuemChi, (T)Bogus, (Z)sAviOr
Group G - (Z)ZerO, (Z)Hyuk, (Z)type-b, (P)Kal
Group H - (Z)EffOrt, (T)RuBy, (Z)FireFist, (P)JangBi
Thanks l10f for the translation!

As exciting as a major upset may be for the spectators and fans, it has to noted that there are two kinds of upsets that appear similiar, but are actually extremely different in the quality of entertainment they produce. The first kind, as when a written-off July came back to win an OSL against the extrmely on fire new player BeSt, or when a kid named IPXZerg came out of nowhere with an exciting new style of play and starting tearing up leagues, are the good upsets becuase they have significance. The better player didnt just win, they won and continued to prove that they deserved that win (ala Bisu beating sAviOr in the MSL finals or Flash cheesing Bisu out of leagues).

The second kind of upsets are where an overall stronger player is knocked out because of a weak matchup, stupid mistake, poor build, or imbalanced map. Bisu losing to Shine in the OSL is a perfect example: yes, Shine played better in that series, but by barely scraping by 2-1 and eliminating the best Protoss in the world, he created a void of entertainment that he simply is not capable of filling and almost certainly created an easier road to the finals for someone else.

After FantaSy dropped out in the prelims to Stats, I was afraid we would be in for a tournament full of the latter type of upset, yet suprisingly he was the only top-tier player not to qualify for the Ro32. Bisu, Jaedong, Flash, Calm, Kal, Iris, Stork, Effort... they all made the cut, and this is honestly one of the biggest steps towards having a historic tournament, having players who play historic-quality games. Imagine the intensity of a Ro8 consisting entirely of people on the Power Rank. A Ro4? While there are surely more upsets to come (I for one dont foresee Kal making it past the Ro32), the sheer number of quality players who have made it this far means we have good odds of seeing some really epic series down the road. Perhaps an honest to god Grand Finals quality Jaedong/Bisu Bo5? Let's wait and see.



Preview Groups 1-3




The first two MSL groups begin in a few moments, with the third starting two days from now. Here are some last minute predictions of how they will go down:

[image loading]

Calm < Match Point > BeSt
Light < Fighting Spirit > fOrGG
< Ultimatum >
< Ultimatum >
< Odd-Eye >


This is an interesting group - there are two MSL champions here, one (Calm) is the clear favorite to win as he is the only concretely S-Class player among the four, though he has definitely stumbled lately - check out his OSL game against Fantasy where he looked seriously off of his A-game - and the other (fOrGG) is without a doubt the clear favorite to lose 0-2, as he simply is not in form to make a serious run at an individual leage or even, in my opinion, take off an upset game. That leaves a guess as to who will advance second. I'd love to say it will be BeSt, and if he plays as sharp as he did vs Flash in proleague, than I do in fact believe he will be moving on behind Calm, but I have a very strong feeling that Light with his never failing ability to play solid (not great, not bad) will simply cruise past the roller coaster Best, who rockets beween good and bad on a daily basis.


[image loading]

Kwanro < Fighting Spirit > HoGiL
Shine < Ultimatum > Hwasin
< Odd-Eye >
< Odd-Eye >
< Match Point >


Ugh, I hope Hwasin makes it through here because none of the other three are even close to in form enough to make a run in this MSL. Yes, even you Kwanro - no matter how far you got in the last one. Shine at least is a promising rookie who has already accumulated a high profile win over Bisu and a solid win rate in all matchups, so I predict him to either advance 2-0 or 2-1 depending on how he does vs. Hwasin (who - despite a loss to Zero yesterday in the OSL, looked extremely solid).

[image loading]

Iris < Ultimatum > Saint
hyvaa < Odd-Eye > Flash
Winners < Match Point >
Losers < Match Point >
Final < Fighting Spirit >


I dont know enough about how Iris is playing lately to give a 100% concrete judgement that he will cruise past Saint and Hyvaa, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt in these predictions because he has proven time and time again for years that he can play world class TvZ when he wants to. If I had to pick a possible zerg to take his place, it would be Hyvaa, because Saint is awful. You might notice i'm not even mentioning the fourth person in the group; there simply is no reason to. Flash is playing at another level lately and nobody in this group is a true threat to him or his amazing streaks in both TvZ and TvT at this point.




That's it for this MSL update; we hope you are as excited as we are for the real NATE MSL to get underway and share our hope that it will be one of the best in a long time.
Stay tuned next week for recaps of groups A,B, and C and previews of D,E, and F!
Facebook Twitter Reddit
Writerman what
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
November 26 2009 08:05 GMT
#2
Sick writeup and gfx
RIP Aaliyah
nttea
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Sweden4353 Posts
November 26 2009 08:14 GMT
#3
nice! me likes <3
Sentient66
Profile Joined July 2009
United States651 Posts
November 26 2009 08:14 GMT
#4
Nice writeup. I really hope this MSL doesn't suck like the last one.
seNsiX.421
Mikilatov
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States3897 Posts
November 26 2009 08:15 GMT
#5
Crazynice graphics. =)

Very well deserving coverage of this great MSL.
♥ I used to lasso the shit out of your tournaments =( ♥ | Much is my hero. | zizi yO~ | Be Nice, TL.
29 fps
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States5725 Posts
November 26 2009 08:41 GMT
#6
as long as it's not a zvz finals, i'm ok with anyone being a finalist
4v4 is a battle of who has the better computer.
Lampan
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden43 Posts
November 26 2009 09:01 GMT
#7
Nice writeup. Looks like it will be a great MSL
"Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk Cafe! He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
BookTwo
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1985 Posts
November 26 2009 09:04 GMT
#8
I love the red graphics theme, pwnage right there.
Vasoline73
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States8066 Posts
November 26 2009 09:09 GMT
#9
Why does everyone say that the only reason ForGG won his MSL was because of the maps? Does anyone even remember that series? I know it's nitpicky because that's not the focus of the article... but ForGG played way better than JD in Arena. :O. Tiamat the huge exception of course..

Anyways, I agree with this article I feel like this is going to be a special MSL. Liked the article alot.
Vasoline73
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States8066 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-26 09:15:51
November 26 2009 09:15 GMT
#10
lol wrong thread
Loanshark
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
China3094 Posts
November 26 2009 09:24 GMT
#11
So anti-ForGG.....regardless of the maps, his run was one of the best ever.
No dough, no go. And no mercy.
Ragnorak
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Australia54 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-26 10:02:14
November 26 2009 10:02 GMT
#12
Is it possible to remove the OSL spoilers (Zero vs Hwasin)? I know its only a single game, but I was looking forward to watching that.
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5600 Posts
November 26 2009 10:10 GMT
#13
Thx a lot very intressting to read, though I found the article a bit too negative (forGG and Kwanro bashing etc..): do you want the MSL to run on a script? Introducing bad maps for Z just because they are playing a lot better than other races now isn't a good way of making a tournament. Why don't just give the trophy right away to the popular Protoss star...
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
November 26 2009 10:18 GMT
#14
On November 26 2009 19:02 Ragnorak wrote:
Is it possible to remove the OSL spoilers (Zero vs Hwasin)? I know its only a single game, but I was looking forward to watching that.


You should expect spoilers in news posts. That's why it's news.
RIP Aaliyah
meeple
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada10211 Posts
November 26 2009 10:32 GMT
#15
I love the banner... very nice write-up too.
icyF
Profile Joined June 2008
Finland305 Posts
November 26 2009 10:44 GMT
#16
nice write up. i hope this msl will be as exciting as you hype it to be!
Cu(oCo)
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Italy358 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-26 11:23:47
November 26 2009 11:23 GMT
#17
awesome write up and graphic
Goons? just vulture toys 휴.휴
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
November 26 2009 12:07 GMT
#18
Really good write up, good job
beep boop
Mischy
Profile Joined May 2008
United States179 Posts
November 26 2009 12:45 GMT
#19
i haven't been paying attention to PL in 2 years...can someone plz fill me in...are zerg dominanting atm? Is it to do with map pool or advances in play style?
MountainDewJunkie
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States10346 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-26 12:53:31
November 26 2009 12:48 GMT
#20
On November 26 2009 19:18 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2009 19:02 Ragnorak wrote:
Is it possible to remove the OSL spoilers (Zero vs Hwasin)? I know its only a single game, but I was looking forward to watching that.


You should expect spoilers in news posts. That's why it's news.


Oh snap!
[21:07] <Shock710> whats wrong with her face [20:50] <dAPhREAk> i beat it the day after it came out | <BLinD-RawR> esports is a giant vagina
1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 10h 46m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft948
ZombieGrub237
UpATreeSC 161
ProTech156
Railgan 131
SpeCial 128
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 368
Artosis 190
Leta 44
NaDa 3
Dota 2
capcasts333
canceldota159
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
summit1g7954
Super Smash Bros
PPMD56
Other Games
Grubby3489
shahzam696
C9.Mang0502
Trikslyr38
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick522
BasetradeTV190
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 129
• RyuSc2 31
• davetesta18
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade860
Other Games
• Scarra1153
• imaqtpie823
• Shiphtur361
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10h 46m
The PondCast
1d 10h
Douyu Cup 2020
2 days
Oliveira vs Trap
Jieshi vs XY
soO vs FanTaSy
TY vs Coffee
OSC
2 days
Douyu Cup 2020
3 days
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
Douyu Cup 2020
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
4 days
Douyu Cup 2020
5 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
5 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-19
WardiTV Spring 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.